holograph
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Posts posted by holograph
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The May statistics are available on the statistics page. The maps and counts by county have been updated also.
There were 2 datasheets updated with new GEOCAC recovery logs. The most recent recovery added to the datasheets was dated April 17. The two "not found" recovery reports were for CQ0073 and CQ3410 in Louisiana by LSUFan. What is interesting is that when I pull up those datasheets online, the recovery reports are no longer there, at least as of the morning of June 4. Perhaps the NGS is having problems with their system.
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There were no new GEOCAC recovery reports posted to the datasheets in April, so the statistics haven't changed.
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I have a piece of land and i have difficulty to find because its coordinates are in Northing and Easting,
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Thanks in Advance....
PS. these coordinates from north of Pakistan Chitral.
Northing and easting are always relative to a particular map projection, and various agencies use various projections. For instance, if it is a historical reference, the values were likely from British surveys, and if it is a modern reference, it might be from a Soviet survey, an American Department of Defense survey, a national survey of Pakistan, or it might even be a local survey. Each of those sources would have used different parameters.
In general, in order to translate northing and easting into latitude and longitue, you need to know (1) the parameters of the map projection that was used, and (2) the datum to which it was referenced. If you don't have that information, or are able to guess that information, then there is no way to translate.
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Ellicott favored the determination of longitude by having teams at the points to be compared, who set their chronometers by the eclipses of Jupiter's moons and then made stellar observations. Hundred of observations. The book is light on technical details, giving only a few clues to the accuracy of results. I'd like to see a comparison of the accuracy Ellicott obtained versus what telegraphic time made possible.
Stachurski has a 20-page chapter outlining several of the various methods in use at the time: lunar culminations, eclipses of Jupiter's moons, eclipses of the Pleiades, and exchanges of chronometers. He explains a little about each technique and its problems, and why none of them could be as accurate as the telegraphic method.
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I just finished reading the book "Longitude by Wire, Finding North America" by Richard Stachurski, 2009, University of South Carolina Press.
It gives an account of the early days of the Coast Survey, when Hassler and Bache were first setting the standards for scientific surveying. Primarily it is the story of the use of the telegraph to find accurate longitudes, and the laying of the transatlantic cable that finally allowed the Survey to determine the longitude of North America relative to Greenwich.
Those of you who are interested in the history of surveying and geodesy in the U.S. may be interested in the book.
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Arkansas' Center of Population monument has been set. It can be found at 35° 04.620' 094° 32.643'. I've posted the details and photos to Waymarking and am waiting for it to publish there.
http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMB5Z1_Arkansas_2000_Census_Center_of_Population_Marker
I've been hoping that someone would track that one down. When I was researching COP markers for the benchmarking web site, and found that one might be in a place called "Toad Suck Park", it was just too good. Now we all need the back story about the name "Toad Suck". Any information?
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... After getting them all lined up in Excel columns I did a bit of DeLorme and Google "ground truth" at paired points along the Wyo line. Looks like it will take a bit of peak bagging to come up with a definitive answer to whether or not any of the King points were appropriated by later surveys.
40th points with the bearing and distance to what looks like the closest logical point
for a triangulation station - generally very close to a PID:
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I wouldn't think many (or any) King survey points became NGS stations. The King survey was using triangulation, but they weren't striving for more accuracy than they needed for mapping at 4 miles to the inch. A pencil line at that scale is about 400 feet wide, so that was their goal in terms of accuracy -- be within 400 feet. From the description in Vol 1, it sounds like they marked the stations with cairns, but when sighting on the peaks, they only sighted on the highest point of the peak. That wouldn't have achieved the accuracy demanded by the NGS.
A lot of the peaks were later occupied by later surveys; some of them became NGS stations, some of them were USGS stations. But those stations aren't the King stations, and they didn't seem to make any effort to find or re-use the King stations, at least no mention is made in the NGS datasheets, although a handful mention a "peak cairn" as a reference mark.
Finally, King had the disadvantage of being first, and there wasn't much that he could tie his network into. At the time of his survey, the only precisely surveyed station in almost the entire West was the Salt Lake City astronomical pier, which had been established in 1869 by George Dean of the Coast Survey. At that time, the longitude of the pier was calculated to be 111° 53' 47.06" and the latitude 40° 46' 3.76". Although that pier (near PID AE4738) isn't a NGS horizontal control station, the hand-held coordinates of AE4738 are 111° 53' 27.65", 40° 46' 10.26", meaning the King survey used a datum with an offset of about 500 meters (1,600 feet) from the NAD83 datum.
It would still be extremely interesting to know if King's cairns survive in some form, which I assume is the main goal of your project.
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The March statistics are available on the statistics page. The maps and counts by county have been updated also.
There were 633 datasheets updated with new GEOCAC recovery logs. The most recent recovery added to the datasheets was dated March 16.
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Wow , thats cool. Seems like a lot of work. If you don't mind would you briefly explain how you georeferenced the maps? did you use your own software? I've tried that with snapshots of USGS quads (geo PDFs) and Google Earth and it seemed fairly reasonable - but you can't bend or shape the overlays beyond changing the length or width. Anyway, thnx.
I assumed that the maps were as accurate as they could make them in 1870's, and that the lat/lon lines were accurately plotted using a Polyconic projection with the Bessel 1841 ellipsoid.
I have a GIS called Manifold, which I used. I simply created a reference map with that projection and ellipsoid and inserted points at the exact lat/lon coordinates of a few of the graticule line intersections in the images. I then added control points to the image at those intersections, and let Manifold georeference the image to the control map using an affine transformation. Finally, I reprojected the images to NAD83 and plotted all the triangulation stations I could find.
The accuracy seemed to be a few hundred meters on average. The map images show signs of distortion at the folds, so overall accuracy varies across the map.
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Thanks for updating this thread. Don't know if I will make it back to Carbon Co, Wyo this summer to check out the suspicious ones that I paper scouted earlier - [in addition to MP0628 SEPARATION, I located three other mapped triangles in Carbon County, Wyo that have PID's with a hint in the description that there was already a monument there. They are: MP0599 STEELE 2, MP0585 ELK MTN and MP0546 MEDICINE BOW.] Gotta think that they are, or are at least very close to, the King monuments.
If it is any help to your project, I georeferenced the King survey maps, and plotted the positions of all the triangulation points I could find (I found 75 of them). Then I did a search against the NGS database for any NGS station within 2 km of a King station. The result follows. The report shows the King triangulation point and my estimated coordinates. Underneath, there is a list of the NGS PIDs that were within 2 km, the coordinates, the distance in meters from the estimated King position, the monumentation date, and the station name.
Pilot Peak -114.082100 41.018130 MT0738 -114.077392 41.021123 517 1889 PILOT PEAK Star Peak -118.173100 40.520250 LS0554 -118.170768 40.522420 312 1953 STAR PEAK RESET Tarogqua Peak -118.231600 39.582980 Wadsworth -119.282600 39.623880 Peavine Mountain (Verdi) * -119.927500 39.589110 KR1795 -119.932099 39.586888 466 1893 PEAVINE KR1787 -119.928643 39.589467 106 1942 PEAVINE EAST CAIRN Signal Peak -117.617700 40.854350 LR0852 -117.607099 40.860543 1128 1934 SONOMA Sue's Peak -117.140700 40.672170 LR0816 -117.132498 40.675033 763 1934 BATTLE Pah-Rum Peak -119.574800 40.389680 LS0636 -119.575222 40.390449 93 1940 PAH RUM PEAK CAIRN FLAGPOLE LS0673 -119.575226 40.390455 93 1963 PAH RUM Kumiva Peak -119.265700 40.407420 Granite Mountain -117.822300 40.279110 LR0850 -117.817073 40.280306 464 1958 GRANITE LR0851 -117.816955 40.280263 472 1958 GRANITE CAIRN Mount Moses -117.423700 40.145890 LR0839 -117.415389 40.147170 722 1958 MOSES Buffalo Peak -118.130900 40.219550 LS0573 -118.129278 40.222663 372 1958 BUFFALO Tohakum Peak -119.454700 40.177880 State Line Peak -119.979400 40.028340 LS0637 -119.979329 40.029859 169 1931 STATE LINE LS0638 -119.978909 40.029832 171 1931 STATE LINE CAIRN Ormsby Peak -119.459800 39.754670 Nache Peak -119.238800 39.995610 Tebog Peak -118.645900 39.903230 Chataya Peak -118.034600 39.973560 KR1473 -118.032515 39.974076 187 1958 COTTON KR1474 -118.032510 39.974102 188 1958 COTTON CAIRN Ravenswood Peak -117.192600 39.826970 KQ0419 -117.172100 39.823175 1805 1954 BOONE CAIRN KQ0418 -117.172098 39.823208 1804 1958 ZENO <unnamed> -117.485900 39.651050 KQ0430 -117.483589 39.647544 437 1954 NEW PASS CAIRN KQ0429 -117.483648 39.647544 435 1958 NEW PASS Crescent Peak -117.805100 39.686510 KQ0484 -117.806871 39.685340 200 1954 MT GRANT CAIRN Tu-Tib Peak -119.168200 39.711790 KR1880 -119.170542 39.712579 219 1956 TWO TIPS Spanish Peak -119.579900 39.646940 KR1878 -119.578671 39.649041 256 1956 SPANISH SPRS PK Parkeah Peak -118.822800 40.515740 <unnamed> -118.482800 40.302000 LS0593 -118.492630 40.287182 1845 1957 NIG LS0594 -118.492673 40.287172 1848 1958 NIG CAIRN Rose Mountain -116.810000 41.287490 Mount Neva -116.372100 41.327640 Mount Bonpland -115.128000 40.948570 Upriver Peak -115.633600 40.892770 LQ0738 -115.630184 40.894401 340 1929 LGS Maggie Peak -116.057300 40.935210 Lookout Peak -114.299600 40.498380 LQ0645 -114.295512 40.499466 367 1944 GOSHUTE Spruce Mountain -114.824500 40.551640 Ravens Nest -116.012500 40.500380 Shosone Peak -116.866400 40.403340 LR0905 -116.861473 40.403414 418 1934 MT LEWIS White Cloud Peak -115.494100 40.402770 Tenabo Peak -116.586600 40.162940 <unnamed> -115.388800 40.730380 Logan Peak -111.722600 41.699110 Medicine Butte -110.914200 41.341780 Willard Peak -111.960100 41.357040 Benada Peak -112.505200 41.483530 MS0726 -112.508281 41.490231 787 1892 NORTH PROMONTORY CAIRN Tangent Peak -113.179100 41.477010 <unnamed> -111.889000 41.190570 MR0714 -111.882034 41.199914 1191 1888 OGDEN PEAK Chalk Peak -111.106000 41.011330 MR0680 -111.110437 41.018159 845 1938 PORCUPINE LaMotte Peak -110.755700 40.769220 LO1138 -110.751998 40.773803 597 1897 LA MOTTE PEAK Connor Peak -112.190400 40.609040 Tabernacle -111.894300 40.764630 Twin Peak -111.723400 40.590600 Lone Peak -111.759000 40.524750 Tooelle Peak -112.216300 40.447590 Bonneville Peak -112.624400 40.457400 LP0457 -112.626321 40.459514 286 1892 DESERET <unnamed> -112.281400 41.022670 Pilot Butte -109.352100 41.637800 Black Butte -108.799600 41.552940 Church Buttes -110.131300 41.488960 Twin Buttes -109.704800 41.176090 Diamond Peak -108.877300 40.945880 Marshs Peak -109.829900 40.707900 LN0686 -109.828634 40.710972 358 1961 MARSH PEAK Gilbert Peak -110.342500 40.823760 Yampa Peak -108.028300 40.441790 <unnamed> -109.163200 41.089210 Separation Peak -107.385800 41.635080 MP0685 -107.395738 41.637737 879 1912 SEPARATION MP0628 -107.395755 41.637746 881 1933 SEPARATION Mount Steele -106.985100 41.831490 MP0599 -106.997688 41.837768 1257 1951 STEELE 2 Arrow Peak -105.478800 41.537260 Elk Mountain -106.511800 41.627740 MP0586 -106.526190 41.633124 1340 1916 ELK Medicine Peak -106.304200 41.357570 MP0546 -106.317600 41.360285 1161 1948 MEDICINE BOW Sheep Mountain -105.966100 41.091020 Encampment Mountain -107.037600 41.188740 Navesink Peak -107.448800 40.923220 Pelham Peak -106.672500 41.031910 Signal Peak -105.268000 41.035310 <unnamed> -105.191300 40.737280 Hantz Peak -106.917900 40.847640 Clarks Peak -105.918500 40.603560 LL1388 -105.929969 40.606821 1036 1949 CLARK <unnamed> -106.051200 41.149540
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The February statistics are available on the statistics page. The maps and counts by county have been updated also.
There were no datasheets updated with new GEOCAC recovery logs. The most recent recovery added to the datasheets was dated January 25.
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The January statistics are available on the statistics page. The maps and counts by county have been updated also.
There were 1,261 datasheets updated with new GEOCAC recovery logs. The most recent recovery added to the datasheets was dated January 25.
Every county in Utah now has at least one GEOCAC recovery.
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The notable recoveries and extreme stations pages have been fixed. Something apparently corrupted the data files for those pages.
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Holograph,
What happened to your Notable Recovery Stations database on your website? Always fun to see those.
Kurt
Good question. I hadn't noticed. Most likely the hosting service changed some software and broke my code. I'll have to look into it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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It is close enough - my aim is to play with percentages. I'll have to edit your monthly County counts a bit because of the "white" counties. Also will move some numbers to get a somewhat more accurate count on the Montana Hi-line counties that have a lot (mostly IBC's) listed in the wrong county.
Percentages are tricky. There are a lot of marks that are unrecoverable or lost, and urban and developed areas are at a disadvantage because they tend to have a high percentage of unrecoverable marks. I tried that when I first started gathering statistics. It is just as difficult/unfair to compare counties based on percentages as it is to compare by net recoveries, and at least recovery counts are simple to understand and don't require a lot of fudging and judgment. Within a small region with similar history it may be useful. Enjoy the experiment!
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I could generate one with a few hours' work...sounds like fun!
Maybe Jim already has one?
See county_counts.csv. It includes a number of destroyed marks, so it may not be exactly what you want. Also, my database is a corrected form of the NGS database, specifically to clean up Alaska boroughs and some cities in Virginia. The NGS datasheet's state/county description sometimes isn't correct and sometimes has missing or obsolete counties.
Keep in mind there are thousands of counties, so the complete list is rather large.
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There were no new GEOCAC recovery reports published on datasheets last month, so I won't be updating the statistics.
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Yes, so it did, and so did Colorado. I haven't taken the time to see who was responsible, though.
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The November statistics are available on the statistics page. The maps and counts by county have been updated also.
There were 1,151 datasheets updated with new GEOCAC recovery logs. The most recent recovery added to the datasheets was dated November 14.
Shorbird was busy in New York state and tagged all the remaining untouched counties. Every county in the state has now had at least one GEOCAC recovery. It looks like Benchmark Blasterz may be trying the same feat in Texas, but has a much larger task ahead.
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One of the VA counties was Dinwiddie, and the recovery was GV2264 by foxtrot_xray, and the other county was Amherst, with recoveries of GW2499 and GW2564 by PFF.
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The November statistics are available on the statistics page. The maps and counts by county have been updated also.
There were 2,355 datasheets updated with GEOCAC recovery logs. The most recent recovery added to the datasheets was dated October 3, so the datasheets are nearly up to date.
It looks like CallawayMT bagged the westernmost station, which is in Alaska. Congratulations! Kayakbird got the 5th most northern station in the contiguous 48 states, and king.hubi got the 9th least recently recovered station, with the first recovery report in 136 years.
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So why were they criticized? I read that whole report (and did come to the realization that the 'survey' was more of a 'survey' in general, and not surveying. A lot of information on the rivers in there, too. (As well as references to places that don't exist, and had me scratching my head wondering where they were..)
There was a huge political battle over control of the western surveys. The Army (Wheeler) wanted to have control, just as it had gotten control the the Lake Survey (the Great Lakes regions). The civilians (King, Hayden, Powell, and a cadre of their colleagues at Princeton University), argued that the Army's techniques were inaccurate. "Useless for geological purposes" was how they were characterized.
In the West, the population wanted the surveys to show where the minerals could be found, where the land was good for agriculture, and what routes were best for transportation. The geologists argued that only maps showing contours could show the extent of geologic formations, and Wheeler's maps used hachures rather than contour lines.
Also, in the early stages prior to about 1873, the Army used the "meander" system for mapping -- measuring distances by a wheeled odometer drawn by a mule, with direction measured periodically with transit instruments. The King, Powell, and Hayden surveys were using the triangulation techniques of the Coast Survey (the NGS's predecessor) and the Lake Survey. The Army wasn't stupid, it just had different goals -- to rapidly map using lightweight instruments with an eye on military conflicts with the Indians.
After some congressional hearings, Wheeler started using triangulation around 1873, and eventually adopted the same methods as the other surveys. Unfortunately, he had an arrogant attitude which led to a conflict with Hayden in the Colorado Rockies -- at times both survey parties were on the same peak at the same time. Congress got fed up in 1879 and consolidated the surveys into the USGS, but preserved the Coast Survey in charge of precise geodesy, and giving the USGS authority for mapping and exploration.
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Wheeler's astronomical stations were places where the latitude was measured directly by star observations and longitude was measured by star observations and telegraphy, typically with a telegraphic connection to the Salt Lake City station. The history of longitude the role of telegraphy in the U.S. is interesting in itself (and bears directly on the supposed "error" in the location of Four Corners that was discussed last year).
Wheeler's Army surveys were criticized by the other civilian surveys, but they acknowledged that his work at the astronomical stations was of the highest quality. Of course, Wheeler didn't personally perform the measurements, he was in charge of the teams who did.
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Hey all, quick question. I've heard of gravity and astrological stations, but never a 'meteorological' station. (Referenced in the Annual Report Upon the Geographical Surveys West of the One-Hundredth Meridian in the States and Territories of California, Oregon, Nevada, Texas, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming - U.S. Geographical Surveys. That's a mouthful!) Supposedly this one was set in June of 1873, and I'm curious to find the history of it.
It's a USGS publication, not NGS, but is this what an astrological station turned in to? Or is this not even a survey mark, but instead an actual 'let's watch the stars' type station?
The Surveys West of the 100th Meridian were the Wheeler surveys, and it was the Army, not the USGS (which didn't exist until 1879-80).
One of the jobs of the meteorological station was to record barometric pressures, among other things. Barometry was often used to find elevations at the time of the Wheeler survey, so having a recorded barometric reading at a station with a known elevation allowed the teams in the field to use barometers to find elevations of mountain peaks and places that were not along railroad levelling lines. Not particularly accurate, but anything those early surveys did was useful at a time when virtually nothing was known about the topography of the West.
We think of surveys in terms of land surveys or geodetic triangulations, but in those days a "survey" had a much broader mandate: they collected information on the zoology, water courses, geology, land use, and native culture and published large volumes of information. The climate and potential for agriculture was an important part.
May Statistics
in Benchmarking
Posted
Oops! Here's what I found in the datasheets:
CQ0073 HISTORY - 20110417 MARK NOT FOUND GEOCAC
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CQ0073 STATION RECOVERY (2011)
CQ0073
CQ0073'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2011 (BKT)
CQ0073'A THOROUGH SEARCH REVEALED NO EVIDENCE OF THE STATION.
CQ3410 HISTORY - 20110417 MARK NOT FOUND GEOCAC
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CQ3410 STATION RECOVERY (2011)
CQ3410
CQ3410'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2011 (BKT)
CQ3410'THE AIRPORT HAS BEEN TORN DOWN AND CONVERTED INTO PUBLIC SOCCER
CQ3410'FIELDS. THE AZIMUTH MARK COULD NOT BE LOCATED AND IS PRESUMED TO BE
CQ3410'DESTROYED WHEN THE ASPHALT WAS REMOVED AND THE GROUND LEVEL LOWERED TO
CQ3410'ACCOMMODATE THE SOCCER FIELDS THAT NOW SIT ATOP IT.