mountainman38

Belayers don't get to claim a hard route as theirs, just because they watched their partner climb it. Why should caching be different? This is sort of like someone watching a climber claw his/her way up a new 5.14, then claiming they sent it because they saw the top. Really, if someone puts out the effort of actually making the climb for a cache, they should have the reward of getting to sign the log. There's always top belay for the guy on the bottom, or the climbers could switch positions as is the norm.

Sounds like you've got a great set up. I've been thinking of something similar -- where you had to actually sign the log to get credit -- but I'll be looking for a climb with an overhang so it must be climbed, not rapped down. Can you tether the log book to it's container somehow so it can't be lowered? I think it's ridiculous for people to sit around waiting for someone else to find a cache/do all the hard work, then everybody logs it as a find. This is why I cache solo. Edited to add: I see that you do have it tethered. If this is a 5 star cache, and the difficulties/requirements are clearly listed, why would anyone think they can just sit on the ground then log the find? That's a ridiculous form of caching.

I haven't found any that have languished too long, but your question brought up one of my own. Why do people put travel bugs in remote caches, multi caches, or hard puzzle caches? I thought the idea was to move them along, not see how long they can stay in one spot. I've picked up several lately that were in caches that only got visited once a month or so, which seems to defeat the purpose. Any thoughts?

Being aware of that prickly feeling that you're not in a good place is very important. However, just having a phone with you isn't going to do much. You may be able to let someone know if there's a problem, but that doesn't stop an attack before help can arrive. The police are often good for reconstructing a crime, but that doesn't help the victim. Personal defense is up to us, with tools we have with us. That's why having a gun or pepper spray won't do any good at all if they're back in the car. Taking an active role in preserving one's health and safety is the only way to really be safe. Women (and men) get attacked on trails in the woods too, so don't be lulled into a false sense of safety. I'm a big guy, and I carry tools to defend myself everywhere I go. I still keep a careful lookout in the mall, the parking lot, the woods, and around my house for possible problems. I make doubly sure that my wife is prepared when she goes out, by carrying pepper foam (doesn't blow back on you in a breeze), a very bright flashlight (a lot of attacks occur at night), and listening to her inner alarm. Being prepared for trouble doesn't mean you're borrowing grief -- it means that when something happens, it won't be a life-devastating and totally unexpected blow from nowhere.

Believe it or not, I had already solved this one while testing my trilateration algorithm. I had to use great circle distances instead of ellipsoidal distances to get a good match. That means that the cache owner used a spherical model of the Earth in creating the puzzle. If you are not getting good results with Google Earth, then the problem may be with it using the ellipsoidal estimate. I minimize the sum of squared distances between the target and actual distances, which is arguably not the ideal metric, but which works well for me. For this problem, the difference between my ellipsoidal and spherical solutions was about 600 feet. There may be someplace online that does spherical trilateration for you; I am not familiar with any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. The other option is to do it yourself using a combination of your method now and FizzyCalc. Here is one method for manual iteration that should work pretty well. First, find an approximate solution where the distances are all right to within a quarter mile or so. Then calculate the distance between one of the reference points and your guess with FizzyCalc in spherical mode. Save the reverse azimuth! Now project the distance you were off along that reverse azimuth from your guessed point. Now do the same for the next reference point, using your new guess. Continue this process with the rest of the reference points. When you finish continue with the first one until the distance you are moving is very small. This process should converge on the correct answer. Here's an example. I am using spherical distances: Reference Point A: N 47 15.700, W 105 18.500 Distance = 603.994 nm Reference Point B: N 48 01.000, W 122 20.600 Distance = 558.828 nm Reference Point C: N 38 10.050, W 112 14.560 Distance = 186.123 nm OK, so let's say I map this and get a guess of N 40 12.341, W 115 15.827 Now, from A to the guess is 603.652 nm, rev az = 42.1907 degrees. So since the target distance is greater than the actual distance, I project from the -0.342 nm at 42.1907 degrees, giving a new estimate of N 40 12.088, W 115 16.128 (yes, FizzyCalc will let you project a negative distance!) From B to this new estimate is 558.703 nm, rev az = 329.393 degrees. Again the target distance is larger so I project -0.327 nm at 329.393 degrees, giving a new estimate of N 40 11.807, W 115 15.910 From C to this new estimate is 185.946 nm rev az = 129.934 degrees. Target distance is still greater, so I project -0.177 nm at 129.934 degrees, which gives me a new estimate of N 40 11.921, W 115 16.088 I start again with Point A. Remember to be careful of the sign of the projection distance; in this case, it will be positive because the distance is now smaller than the target. I won't go through the details, but here are the points you should get by continuing: N 40 11.997, W 115 15.997 N 40 12.001, W 115 16.000 N 40 12.001, W 115 16.000 N 40 12.000, W 115 16.002 N 40 11.999, W 115 16.001 As you can see, we have converged. We started out off by 0.366 nm, and in less than 10 iterations we have the correct answer. Try it and let me know how it goes! Hey Fizzy, Thanks for the help! That looks like a lot of work, and reminds me of my surveying days. When I have time I will certainly follow the steps you suggested, and let you know how it turns out.

You don't say how far apart the original points are, but if it is more than a few miles the difference between a spherical approximation and the WGS-84 ellipsoidal distance can become significant. Also, if you are using cache locations from the Geocaching kml Google Maps, be aware that the coordinates are intentionally fuzzed. Fizzy, I'm working on this cache. I'm not looking for spoilers -- I really want to solve this myself -- but so far I'm getting some pretty poor results. Distance are between 120 and 160 NM, and I've used both the KML generator for Google Earth, as well as MapSource with no joy.

I used that program for a cache with 4 points and known distances from the cache, but they didn't come close to meeting at a point. The result was a roughly quadrilateral area about 1/2 mile across, which is way too big to start guessing coordinates for. I'm not sure if the KML generator doesn't use enough precision in it's calculations, or if the distances given weren't precise enough to use this method.

I've found that the sticks I like most to carry when out in the woods are ones I've worked on myself. There's something about turning a long stave of wood you found on a hike into something personal and useful that is very satisfying. Plus, it doesn't cost anything! I've seen nice walking sticks for sale at places like Sportsmans Warehouse, for around $25 or so. They look nice, if you want to buy one. A great online resource is Brazos Walking sticks, where you can find cool ones like this: I needed some sticks in this weekend while climbing a mountain side covered with scree, so I got out my folding saw and cut up some dead wood to make my own. It worked very well having two sticks to brace myself as I clambered up the 45° slope, I must say. I noticed I wasn't nearly as tired afterward, and I may have to look into some aluminum trekking poles now.

I have one cache that I logged without signing it. It was early in my geocaching career (almost a month ago), and I didn't carry a pen with me. The cache was easily accessible (right near the highway), in a very obvious spot (bottom of a large pole with a rock over it), and I haven't bothered to go back. If this causes me to lose a geocache credit, I'm ok with that. Now, if I lost one of the hard to find ones... that would be a sad day.