bigeddy

Yes! Thank you. Am I reading the charts right?: At the start of 2003 there were roughly 50k caches submitted by 100k users or a 1:4 ratio. At the start of 2006 there were roughly 330k caches submitted by 550k users or a 1:1.7 ratio. Despite the huge increase in users at some point the number of caches may overtake them. That includes archived caches, of course, but it is still amazing growth. I'm starting to see more people now who have over a hundred placed caches most of which are still active.

Changed? A better choice of words would be -expanded- the nature of the game and as a result, different choices are now made available for different types of players. I respectfully (sincerely and without malice) ask why we should look at this criticially? It's not like we are altering a 100 year tradition of geocaching. Please read my original post (somewhere on page 2). For better or worse, micos have radically changed the physical attributes and number of caches, changed how we search and log them, and--I maintain--lowered the overall quality and variety of caches because they are so easy to hide. In many places a high percentage of caches are typical micro hides in boring places. It's a numbers game now. Yes, the game expands and offers something for everybody if they are willing to work at it. The problem with copious micros is that they make the task so much harder. It is similar to the challenge of finding healthy food in the grease-belt: possible, perhaps, but the easy availability of junk food works against us. From my perspective micros are unhealthy for the game and we would be wise to talk about it.

Another Mac user here looking at a gray box. Sure would be nice if TPTB would test changes on a Mac before releasing them. As noted by someone else it is possible to get the map to show in Safari by running a newer version of WebKit than is installed in OS X 10.4.6. It is updated daily for developers but one version that seems to work is Rev. 13302. This WebKit app looks just like Safari except its icon is a gold rimmed compass instead of silver.

Sure you do! Not as sexy as cache totals, perhaps, but fun just the same. And benchmarks are still on the personal "Geocaches" list:

What a load of carp Try caching out of the city for once. ... Wow, this discussion has really deteriorated. Now we have a Moderator calling a another post a load of "carp" and that the poster should get "out of the city." Anyway, PQs are a great tool for the addicted but are not the answer to every question about selecting caches to hunt. Nor is it helpful to tell people where to cache. Micros have changed the nature of the game and we need to look at that critically and respectfully.

Looked at in terms of container volumes, the existing categories are evenly spaced which makes sense: large - bucket - 640 oz regular - ammo can - 100 oz (about 1/6 the size of large) small - serving container - 16 oz (about 1/6 the size of regular) micro - film canister - 2 oz (about 1/8 the size of small) And then there is the nano-container: nano - pill capsule - 0.05 oz (about 1/40 the size of micro) It is off the scale both in volume and potential difficulty--very different from a standard micro in key ways. There ought to be some way to identify a nano. You suggest the difficulty level which might work if it were not so subjective and used for other qualities of the hunt. Based on our present size categories, a new category for nano would be consistent. Example of a relatively large nano-cache:

I was recently trying to research archived caches in a 50-mile radius and a pocket query would have been ideal. Knowing where caches have been and reading their logs can be enlightening and is part of the (brief) history of the game. I don't understand the "fresh data" rationale because if that is what a person wants they could simply not check the "archived" box assuming there was such a choice. On a side note, didn't there used to be a choice to hide or show an archived cache? It looks like only the show option is there now.

Actually, 2-3/8" x 1" is generous for a micro. Try finding a 7/16" x 5/16" Mr. Magneto capsule or variations. You need tweezers to get the so-called "log" out. And then there are the containerless caches that use a magnetic strip as the log. I agree that there needs to be a better way to flag these vanishing-point caches now that they have become fairly common.

Unfortunately the "Identify" feature lists only 20-25 caches which may cover a small area. I was trying to research all the archived caches in a city and found the "Map It" feature (aka Visualize Waypoints) to be fairly useless. I wonder why Pocket Queries do not have an "Archived" checkbox? The "Is Not Active" checkbox does not pick up archived caches.

Many of us have grown weary of micros and where they have taken us. An early definition of a geocache was a container with a log book, pen or pencil, and trade items. As the containers got smaller the trade items were the first to go. Next the log book shrank to a log sheet on which there was room for only a name & date. Then it became BYOP. Finally, the container itself disappeared so that the "cache" was nothing more than a vinyl magnet "log" attached to most any flat surface. As the size reached the vanishing point, micros became little different from virtual caches; in fact, I have logged several by photographing or describing them--much like virtuals--because the micro-log sheet was unusable and there was no room to add a new one. Today's geocache is often a far cry from the original concept. Geocaching icons have changed from the bucket and ammo can to the film canister and key holder. According to micro supporters it has to be that way because urban areas cannot support full-sized caches. That begs the question: does every pocket park, rest stop, monument, utility box, etc. need a cache? The answer seems to be a resounding "yes!" Variety is desirable and micros have always had their place. The problem with micros is that they are so easy to hide they tend to take over an area quickly and drive out other caches, including quality micros. They spread like weeds, much in the way aggressive, non-native plants take over a habitat. In some cities nearly 70% of caches are now micros and they are nearly everywhere. Micro-cache series comprise dozens of similar caches with identical descriptions; finders sweep through and clone their on-line logs so that even the joy of reading other logs is gone. Quality caches that do get placed off the beaten path often go begging for customers or, worse, become casualties of the cache-n-dash circuit. Variety is gone. Some geocachers are attracted to the large numbers, just as some people succumb to the appeal of fast food: quick, cheap, filling, always available, but little nutrition. The pity is that many of the micros could be larger containers, hidden thoughtfully in interesting places, but why work at hiding when finders line up for anything that's posted? And posted they are by the bunches, so long as they are 0.1-mile apart. Neighborhoods have become ready-made cache machines where all you need is a pen and a few hours to log 50 finds. Rampant cache inflation where 5-figure cachers are now on the leader board. Geocaching became a different game when people started averaging double-figure caches per day, a bit like orienteering races without the elegance. I knew the game had changed course when I needed to put on my reading glasses to find a cache and I found myself asking, "Why is there a cache here?" Those of us who seek quality over quantity are faced with the daunting task of researching hundreds of caches in hopes of finding a few good ones. Sometimes it's even a challenge to find a cache that can take a travel bug. Pocket queries, bookmark lists and other tools help but are time consuming and a major obstacle to the casual cacher. The cache page clutter is starting to look like a tax return. Fortunately, there are many other navigation and treasure seeking games besides geocaching. Increasingly, I look to those for a rewarding hunt.

...which the thieves understand and which Ebay makes easy to take advantage of. Because Ebay takes a profit from every illegal transaction why would they discourage fencing? They are not held responsible. The ironic thing is that if we came across a big bargain like this on the street we would probably not even consider it but the internet somehow makes it Ok.

...which has a fancier interface and more features than CacheMate, especially when using a GPS receiver with the Treo. Unfortunately, it costs $25, has not been updated in over a year, and doesn't support some of the Treo buttons which means you have to use the stylus a lot. For just storing cache data and taking notes I prefer CacheMate. Good to have two choices.

The easiest route is to get geocaching queries emailed to you in GPX format (includes hint, logs, etc.) and transfer that to CacheMate (at $8 nearly free). Because the Palm OS uses PDB files you will need to translate GPX to PDB using a free conversion program. A memory card for your Treo will be useful as you get into the sport and start storing many hundreds of cache descriptions. The Treo's built-in memory is rather limited. A good place for Treo info is TreoCentral or http://treo.treocentral.com in mobile format on your Treo. Enjoy!

What are the odds it's stolen?

I don't know of any topo navigation programs that work on the Treo, just street map ones. On the Mac side why not use the BT receiver with MacGPS Pro (assuming you have a current BT-capable laptop)?

Now that that's over with maybe I'll do a cache called An Error Has Occured. I'll even leave the name misspelled and add an obscure description about pools.

I mentioned them in the discussion and they are available on the WSGA web page. I have now added a link to the cache page. Thanks for the suggestion! As for the Mac issue, well that's one of the trade-offs when you are a Mac user in a PC world. How did you get those polygon coordinates? I'd like a set for Oregon. As for "the Mac issue," a more universal approach beyond GSAK would be appreciated. I don't think having a Windows program should be a prerequisite for doing a cache. A simple solution would be a high-resolution TIFF image of a state map with the grid on it. The map could be imported into popular mapping programs, registered, and used as a base map for looking at caches. Not sure how to produce that scan without violating copyright, though.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the ODC or the WDC, but I can say that for the WDC the purchase of a DeLorme Atlas is absolutely *not* required. I include an image of the state overlaid with the page grid and also a snapshot of caches throughout the state overlaid by the grid. You can measure your progress at any time by sending me a file of your pertinent finds and hides. If you prefer to do the work yourself, you can download the files mentioned for use by GSAK. They are simple text files that list the coordinates for the corners of the various blocks and pages. You can use these to determine whether a given cache falls on a certain page, or alternatively if any of your finds fall on a given page or block. Thanks for the guidance on how to do the cache without buying a map book. A few things I still don't get, though--please bear with me. The Snapshot on the cache page is interesting but not detailed enough; in many cases there is just a giant red blob and there are no reference points. How do I pick out a cache to hunt in a given grid? You mention GSAK but that product does not support Macs so I'm out of luck there. You mention text files with the grid coordinates but where are they? I don't see them on the cache page or in this discussion. You have done a great job with the Washington Challenge but what about the Oregon one? That cache page provides no guidance other than saying to buy the Gazetteer, which seems to violate the guidelines for commercial caches. Thanks for your help. Bet you could have found a hundred caches in the time it's taken to set up this one!

Seems like a non-issue to me. I don't plan on buying the Atlas, and don't anticipate any trouble figuring out which caches are on a particular page. You still have to use their grid system which, I think, is generally available only on their printed maps. There is the GSAK workaround being discussed but that assumes a person has that software and can run it--I can't because it doesn't support Mac. I don't see any way to do this cache without bowing to DeLorme and buying a map. I wonder if a cache based on a map grid where you have to find a cache in, say, every Starbucks' zone would be published? The Starbucks' Challenge has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Ditto that. Double ditto. It just seems wrong to be giving a company free advertising by requiring use of their maps, besides all the hoops to jump through to figure out what grid a cache is in. Counties which are on most paper and on-line maps would be so much more sanitary.

It would make a lot more sense to me to base the grid on coordinates or county boundaries. I rarely use paper maps anymore and I certainly don't want to give $20 to DeLorme and then still have to figure it out by hand. Maybe a computer whiz like Moun10Bike can make the grid easier to use in terms of plotting and finding caches.

Page 37 at 52 mi. 102 pages to get to 100 mi. The cache density reported in various areas is interesting. And to think I once thought the 1000 waypoint limit of my GPS receiver was more than adequate...

I would like to see all stats in one place and have the ability to move seamlessly between games. There are more similarities than differences between caches and waymarks.

http://wap.geocaching.com/ is for us mobile maniacs. It's a lot faster than the full web pages and works well on my Treo.

I don't know Vindigo but Mapopolis works with my Treo and Holux bluetooth receiver.