Grasscatcher

RMB, Yep, guaranteed "fair test". ...Fully understand the whys ,whats, and wherefores.......

I would already have a new 78S on order EXCEPT for one small detail......WAAS. The absolute first day that our REI gets them in stock, I plan on taking my 76CSx to the store and compare WAAS acquisition "time to lock" with the new 78. If the 78 is like the Oregon / Dakota....it stays in the store. If it's like the 76, it gets to go hiking and live in a new home.

I would place a strong bet that it is slightly modified Oregon software. If they were going to add all of this, then I would have expected to see it on teh Oregons by now. YZ, you can already do the measurement trick ....see the Oregon wiki. WAAS performance- "They" (Garmin) say the problem is due to "Antenna Design" so , if they believe their own propaganda, the antenna should be different than the Ceramic antenna on the Oregons.....whether it turns out to be a Patch or a QH is pure guess right now. We will soon see... Something sure needs to change because, while hiking in wide open ideal WAAS reception area, with both my 76CSx and my 550 side by side, the 76 EPE is 8-10ft with solid WAAS lock while 550 EPE is 20-40 ft and no WAAS lock. Also, "they" need to improve screen visibility. Yeah, I know, some people profess that they are fine at present, but I believe that some of those folks are trying to put lipstick on a pig. (I have a 550 so I know) NOBODY BUT NOBODY has claimed that the Oregon/Dakota screen has as good or better visibility as the old 60/76 series (I have a 76CSx), and the new 62/78 is supposed to be clearer and sharper.

Did you notice the 500mb internal memory........vs 1.7 GB on the new 78 series? That won't sit well with the folks that just absolutely MUST have ALL of USA Topo, ALL of USA City Navigator, ALL of Canada and Europe PLUS Elebenteen Thousand Caches with all the comments,hints,etc,etc

What makes you think that? (that the 62 will have a QH antenna) The 76 Series also has a QH antenna but looks totally different, while being electronic clones with the 60 series. The "knob" on the 60 series just appeals to folks that want the dog to have something to chew on or to break off when dropped. Then again, who knows....since Garmin says that the lousy / non-existent WAAS performance in the Dakota-Oregon series is due to "Antenna design, maybe they intend on having a "Patch" antenna in the 78 Series and a "QH" antenna in the 62 Series.......and let the public do their "Testing" for them. The same Oregon "innards" and two types of antennas? Seems to be how things (testing procedures) work lately.

If the difference between 1.75 ft and 13 ft is considered to be an insurmountable problem, then I'm afraid that you'll need more than GPS guidance. At some point the user should turn the GPS off and turn their brain and eye functions on.

This is not intended to argue or inflame.... but just think about it. A GPS is designed to determine it's specific location and ,if desired, will direct you to another location at a particular set of coordinates as specified by the operator. A cache is just a specific location. (set of coordinates) to be found. No "Pictures" are REQUIRED. (either maps or images) No Compass is REQUIRED Note: Every individual in the entire world has a slightly diifferent "bearing" to that location, but that fact does not change the "location". The GPS will accurately point you toward the location based STRICTLY on the "difference" in the two locations, whether it be N,S,E,W from your location. So....why care.....you must go the direction that you must go to get to the new location. If you have to detour around an obstacle...so be it. Maps ,Imagery,and Compasses on GPSs are purely just part of the "Fluff and Frills" convenience features that have been added and are part of the "Lifestyle to which Cachers have become accustomed". REQUIRED ? Absolutely NOT Hey Dude, " Like Totally Awesome Desired features" which make things more convenient ? ......Probably.....

IMHO you asked about the wrong feature...... The Compass is ABSOLUTELY NOT "necessary" However, in this day of map file sizes and data file sizes.....the SD card ability is MUCH closer to being an absolutely required feature than a compass feature. Ask that question and I'll bet you get a totally different series of answers

I thought they nearly always went with strictly "List price" except for sales.

I agree. Something unusual, in one of my e-mail exchanges with Garmin reps about the WAAS issue, one of them said that they recognized that the Ceramic antenna didn't perform as well as the Quad Helix, but it was considered better than the Patch antenna. This was "after" saying that "antenna design" was the cause of the WAAS problem. so.......maybe the 78 antenna is a "New Design" ceramic antenna instead of being a "Patch" type.

Thanks! Something funny....a check on REI site for 78 Series 78sc- --$549 78s---$399 78---$349 (yes, in that order) I'll bet that gets changed quickly

Scott, can you see that it's physically different than the ceramic antenna that's in the Oregons?

That e-mail from Garmin was only one of a series of about 20+ e-mails. It was way down in the series before ANY of the "Tools" would even admit that there was a WAAS problem. They kept insinuating that whatever accuracy the unit was getting was good enough. (even though it didn't agree with their own published standards) Kinda like Delorme's attitude that if their units/software don't "do it" , then you don't need it........but it's coming.......

Don't the PN/Cartesio models also have a patch antenna and not a Quad Helix? The PNs from "The Check's In the Mail Delorme" has a "patch antenna". The Oregon / Dakota from "We're Working On It" Garmin has a "ceramic antenna"

I agree. So we're back to the "repackaged 450"swag. It's all just guesswork, opinion, and theorizing at this point anyway. I just hope it's not just another WAAS "Dud" model.

Just a quick comment....not trying to promote a cause. To me , actual "out in the field" work is where UTM shines. I always already know what Zone I'm in so, personally, I only mentally deal with TWO "directions". More East or Less East, and More North or less North. to make the numbers match. And considering that each "number" digit is essentially a step, I know the distance. No conversion, minimal calculation (adding or subtracting) and I'm there. Works for me!

GJ is about 160 miles away. If I get that far south this summer , I'll contact you for the details. I don't know which sub forum would be best....maybe one of the moderators would jump in and make a suggestion. Oh, by the way, next time you need coordinates converted...... FIRST have your GPS unit set on whatever format you want to convert FROM.......input the starting coordinates and then change your unit to whatever format you want to end up with .....and just read the answer.......ta da ! Didn't think of that one, did ya? These little booger electronic things are about half smart! Look in my profile and send me an e-mail with whatever location info and grave name etc. I'll see if I can find anyone that knows someone down in that part of the state.

This is from Navi gadget.com "Garmin just announced three new marine GPS handheld devices. Garmin GPSMAP 78, GPSMAP 78s, and GPSMAP 78sc. Before we go into their differences and unique features let’s go over this newly remodeled series. They all have the same form factor which now has contemporary industrial design with rubber side grips. They can last up to 20 hours on a pair of AA batteries, and all use the HotFix GPS receiver from SiRF. 2.6″ color TFT screen, IPX 7 waterproof, 1.7GB internal memory and microSD card slot are also standard." Note that they say the new models will have SIRF chipsets........ Do they know someting that the rest of us can't find out? I hope they are correct!

I have a couple of Garmins in the eTrex series and both of mine can be set to display utm coordinates. That's all I EVER use.... People don't understand how much simpler and accurate UTM is. Each of the (RH) digits in UTM coordinates represents a(1)meter(essentially 1 yd or 1 Step). Brains (at least mine) don't work in D M S when trying to visualize distances......what distance you read is what distance you get with UTM......down to 1 number difference?? then you are within 3 ft. Kinda one of those DUH moments.....

ALL GPSs that I am aware of will display coordinates in UTM. I'll even say that yours will.....and I don't even know what kind you have! HA ! an aside.... make another post and see if there are any GC'ers in the Durango area that would be willing to go do a quick check for you. You provide the name on the grave and where the cemetery is located, which they will probably already know, and they can get you some accurate coordinates. There are thousands and thousands of people that travel through SW Colorado on summer vacation......give someone a constructive project to do.

I'll be waiting for your report on this comparrison :)My 76csx works great but that 3 axis compass would be cool if it worked well. It (the test) will definitely happen..... I'm in Grand Junction , CO and there is an REI here and a brand new Cabelas that will open about the last part of May. I have a 76CS, a 76CSx, an Oregon 550, and an old Trimble Geo Explorer II, (previously had a 76S and others...) So......I'm familiar with the 76 series (use the 76CS with APRS radio) and know how WAAS reception is SUPPOSED to work (the 76CSX), enjoy the 3 axis compass and camera (the 550). Principle uses are mapping Hiking, ATV, and Snowmobile trails and finding Benchmarks. I just hope that Garmin will start spending more time on GPS accuracy and features instead of the "GC game" features.

The UTM coordinates that (?) gave you are incorrect for anything in that cemetery. The easiest way to solve the problem is to get "them" to recheck the location by GPS again. They need to turn the GPS on and let it settle down and get a good lock while they are traveling to the grave location. Then record the coordinates. Then have them double check the numbers they are giving you. ....or if there is someone in the Durango ,CO area familiar with GPS ......... Below is info just FYI, (don't let it confuse the issue) In her e-mail, the 13E ........is WAY off. The 13 is the UTM zone and that is the correct zone number. However, the "E" is NOT correct. It HAS to be 13 "S" (S does not stand for South, it's just a letter designation of the south to north UTM bands. E band is below the southern tip of South America, in the Southern Hemisphere. 13 S is in the USA and Northern Hemisphere. Those "band" letters are usually just ignored...and just whether the location is N or S hemisphere is noted ....NOTE: this incorrect zone designation IS NOT THE PROBLEM, but it does indicate that "they" didn't understand what they were looking at.

When I plug Z13 245590E, 4131613N, into your converter I get 37 17 46.6 lat, 107 52 12.596 lon. Is that what you get? Be sure that I've got the correct UTM numbers above.

Yep, same software. Best quality maps available.

I couldn't understand when they bypassed the QH for the Oregon series. They tried the ceramic for that model and the WAAS bug bit them in the kazoo. Did you notice the $449 pricepoint for the 78S (all the bells and whistles but minus the coastal maps). Load it up with free maps and hit the trails! As soon as they hit the market, a really easy and quick test would be to take a 76CSx to a sales outlet and compare WAAS acquisition times with the 78s