mloser

I would say definitely not. That is a saw mark in the concrete. What you are looking for could be very hard to see, as it may have weathered away or blended in with the concrete. It will be an actual square or rectangle shape, chiseled into the concrete. This one was easy to see: KW0758 Here is a harder one: KW0651 From the looks of the concrete your bridge may have been replaced. Chiseled squares have not been used (much) recently. Matt

Tonight my son and I needed all the help we could get looking for a station and two reference marks. Not a single item in the description was available to measure from. The property owner and neighbor came out and showed us where they thought the station was, and sure enough, it was under 2 inches of dirt. We used the information about reference mark distance and angle was absolutely necessary to find the two reference marks as they were also under dirt and grass. Luckily the owner thought nothing of digging two holes in his yard to help us. We measured from existing trees and will redescribe the marks to NGS later tonight. This is the kind of hunt, and find, that make benchmarking worth it. Of course, we were lucky the owner had no qualms about digging up his yard.

California, If you find RM1, you might want to measure it and redescribe it and submit the recovery to NGS.

Thanks K&S, but in the last 5 weeks I added 64, so I am up to 264 as of today. They are getting harder and harder as I have to travel farther away from home, so there is no such thing as heading out for an hour to grab a few any more! I have to plan my trips now. Still, I see getting to 300 by some time in August.

This section of the original description is the key to the reference marks, and shows RM1 is 6.845 meters away at a heading of 16.33 degrees. I usually start with the description of the reference marks, as it often references things I can measure from, I often resort to the above section that states exactly what angle and what distance. If there are no obstructions you can stake your tape at the station and swing an arc with it at the prescribed distance to make sure your cover all possibilities. There was a long thread on triangulation stations a while ago at: Triangulation Stations which might prove very helpful. Matt [Edited to add thread about triangulation stations]

MarkDuster, I am pretty sure you will successfully get the water tower marked as destroyed, since the concrete blocks are evidence that it was removed. The guard tower may be more difficult as there is no actual evidence that it was ever there, at least from the picture you provided. For the most part Deb requires physical evidence of the destruction of a benchmark--a foundation, or some evidence that the location is where the structure used to be. For a disk you must actually have pictures of the disk in its destroyed condition. The impression of where the disk was mounted or the stem of the disk is not enough evidence to prove that it is the actual disk that was on the description. Also, I noticed you didn't note the reference marks that were with MW0841. Were they there or did you not search for them? Matt

And it figures they reproduced a Reference Mark and not a station.

I think it really depends on the area where you live. I had had decent luck here in south central PA, but my trip to Connecticut a month ago was a dismal failure--I think I found about 4 out of 20 looked for marks. My overall "record": 257 found 137 not found 15 marked destroyed (although most of those were not reported to NGS as destroyed. I think I have 4 of those to date).' 19 notes--mostly not founds that I want to go back to.

Were those little people or was that disk a bit larger than I am used to seeing?

ddnutzy, I agree-I want MORE now. That was the closest that hadn't been found in a while, and was even better because it had no recoveries at all. I felt in touch with the past when I found it. The thought that nobody had touched that marker since it was put in was a somewhat religious experience for me. I actually made a little noise when I saw the marker the first time and realized what it was, then touched it reverently. As for a metal detector, I have thought about it, but it wouldn't have helped for this mark as it is stone. Matt

Black Dog, I did that right after I logged it on GC!

YeOld, yes that is what I meant! Did I type scaled? Check the posting again (wink).

Trust me, I WANTED to see that bottle, but I didn't dare dig!

After reading some older posts about old stations I looked up all the ones in my general area and tried to figure out which one(s) would be the best to find. There are some in the Philadelphia area, but they look like they might be gone, as well as having been recovered multiple times since they were set. I stumbled on Barry 1885, in Schuylkill County, PA, which was set in 1885 and not recovered since! I knew I would be heading that way to take my daughter to a sports camp, and today was the day. Rainy, foggy, miserable, but I wasn't skipping out on Barry! The walk up the mountain is simple, on a PA Dept of Forestry road, and I wasn't even trespassing (for a change). I used my GPSr to get me near the mark, and then I thought I knew what I was doing, so I walked around looking at rock piles for about a half hour. Finally, since the coords are adjusted, I restarted the GPSr and let it guide me. Sure enough, when it started spazing out because it was at the coords, I looked down and there was the top of the monument! What a great moment. I knelt down and looked at it, then touched it, to touch the history. Then, finally, I began photographing. There aren't many marks this old near me, especially ones that haven't been replaced by a disk (that takes a lot of the thrill out of it for me, to see a disk stamped 1893 1936--it means the original mark has been destroyed). Edited to say "adjusted" instead of "scaled" as pointed out by YeOld below.

Colorado, If you get to PA, look me up. I am in Hershey. Lots to see and do in this area. Matt

I would also be agreeable to receiving a note from a Benchmark regular, but less so from someone I had never seen here at all. I trust most of the folks on this board do the best they can when benchmarking, just like I do. I take great pride in my accuracy in hunting and can tell that the majority of you (who will be reading this) do also. I do this as a hobby, but I am very serious about it. So if you find that I made a mistake, it was just that--a mistake. I would never misrepresent a find intentionally. Let me know if you catch me in something! I will research it and correct it if I feel it is warranted. M

Colorado... did you take a look at the log and pic on that BM? The pic is certainly NOT of the BM in the description, so I question whether it was found or not.

I am with both opionions above. It seems there were hundreds of marks set in 1960 to help with interstate construction. A few around here have them all along their lengths. A little guesswork based on how they were set has be believing that many of the marks should still be there, especially if the interstate was totally new--they did not set the marks very close to the exact location of the road. If I40 replaced an existing road the marks may be gone, as many interstates have been widened since they were put in. You did indeed pick a hard mark to find, and went out less than totally prepared. I never hunt in shorts or sandals. You have found one of the reason--debris. The others are all the fun things you can get bitten, scratched, or touched by (I have gotten 3 major cases of poison ivy since I started this hobby in February). Take a measuring tape, something to poke at the ground with, a compass, and a brush of some nature to brush off the dirt that will be on the mark. Be prepared to jump fences and get dirty. The mark was at ground level in 1960, so it would be covered by dirt, grass and anything else by now. It may not be visible. Also, ignore the looks--nobody really cares what you are doing. If you are on someone's property, ask permission. Other threads have gone into that topic in depth, but I have never been refused permission. Here is how I would go about it: THE BENCH MARK IS ABOUT 250 FT. NORTHWEST OF THE CENTER OF PROPOSED INTERSTATE HIGHWAY 40 This places the mark along Elm Hill Rd. It is too far to bother measuring, unless you really need to, so eyeball it, 157 FT. EAST OF THE CENTER OF THE T JUNCTION OF MC CROY CREEK DRIVE AND ELM HILL PIKE Again, eyeball this one. You should be about 2/3 of the way from I40 and 1/3 from McCroy Crk Rd, 15 FT. NORTH OF THE CENTER OF ELM HILL PIKE It is on the north side of the road, just off the shoulder, 91 FT. NORTHWEST OF THE CENTER OF A PRIVATE DRIVE Eyeball this one again, if the private drive still remains. You may have to come back to this one if other distances don't check out. , 5 FT. EAST OF A POWER LINE POLE NUMBER 75 WITH A GUY WIRE This is your key! Hopefully the pole and guywire still exist and even better, it is numbered 75 (look hard, it may still be there!) , 0.5 NORTH OF A FENCE Yep, you have to cross the fence, or at least look over or through it, since the mark is NORTH of the road and NORTH of the fence. , AND 2 FT. NORTH OF A WITNESS SIGN This is probably gone, but if it is there your whole search is simple. . THE DISK IS SET IN TOP OF A CONCRETE POST THAT IS FLUSH WITH THE GROUND AND IS ABOUT LEVEL WITH THE ROAD. This is important--unless you are in a landscaped area, this disk is under dirt, grass, etc. and you will have to poke around to find it and clear off the dirt to prove it is a benchmark. So head on back out and get this one! [/color]

seventhings, Not when I am out in the field with the description in hand! In the absence of a metric tape, I mulitply by three, remember that as the feet, then add that as number again as inches, which about the 3.3 feet per meter for converting. Thus 6 meters becomes 18 feet plus 18 inches, which is 19 feet 6 inches. The conversion is 19 feet 8.2 inches, so until I get to much longer distances I can at least come close enough to poke around.

And speaking of metric, can anyone help me find a 30 meter tape that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Oddly enough, I can't find one at my nearest Home Cheapo!

I think 2old may have a point, that you found an original RM, but they WERE described as being in too poor a condition to use and that hole is certainly in good condition. Did you measure from the RMs to the hole to see if the distance and compass readings matched the description? Whenever I have trouble finding one or more marks of a triangulation station I begin by measuring the distance from a known mark to the unknown one(s). This has rarely failed me, and a few times even resulted in my digging out a buried mark.

I use a tape and a good old fashioned compass. That is the only way to get the measurements needed to help someone find the mark. I mostly use the GPS to get me by road to the mark, then the description to find it. Only where the mark is in the woods or a field do I rely more on the GPS. Scaled coordinates can be off by quite a bit, since they were just taken from map measurements, so it seems to me to be a waste to rely too much on a GPS, which also may be 30-100 feet off. If any of the features in the description are available it is much easier to take out the compass and 100' tape and go to it! Edit--by the way, all those measurements aren't mine. If you look at the original description you will realize that I simply added what had changed. Also, I don't edit a lot of descriptions to that level--most are fairly accurate and I simply note that the "gas station is now a printing shop", etc.

I log almost all with NGS if they haven't been recovered since about 1990. If the description has changed I will measure and re-describe if possible. See KW0836 for an example. I often add information if I feel it will help someone find the mark.

I hit 239 the other day, and am proud to have recovered a "Not Found" from 1995. The disk was indeed there but was under some dirt and mulch. The business owner was happy to let me search, but it was a home builder so they know how important surveys are.

Gecko, But if they are eccentric, what are you actually measuring? Are you using them as triangulation points against known elevations so their actual elevation is unnecessary? If that is the case there is no reason for them to be benchmarks--any high structure could serve.