LSUFan

Giving this topic a little bump, for those who may be interesting in listening to it tomorrow.

I was trying out the weblink that Jim referred to, but couldn't get the year 2012 to show up in the dropdown box. It just showed 2011-2002.

Paul, they are not automatically updated when using DSWorld. I don't really have an answer as to what is happening behind the scenes after you use DSWorld to submit recoveries, coordinates, county corrections, photos. In my experience with DSWorld, it seemed like photos and HH2 Coordinates get updated fairly fast when submitted that way. It also seems that DSWorld tries to keep everyone in the loop with what is going on. In DSWorld, click VIEW>DSWorld News. You'll then be able to read about what has been happening like I copied below. I don't really know what a "backlog" photo is. 12/14/11 - November DSWorld submittals: 858 hand held positions loaded 85 mark recoveries loaded 12/22/11 - Almost 3000 digital photos loaded! All photos submitted to DSWorld through 12/20/11 plus over 2800 backlog photos! 12/24/11 - Did you know that the photo editor in the latest update of DSWorld will allow you to correct the LOGO and Mark Type for a point? 01/12/12 - 2739 Backlog and DSWorld submitted photos loaded. 01/20/12 - 1576 Backlog photos loaded. 01/24/12 - 840 Backlog photos loaded. - 373 DSWorld photos loaded. I am still awaiting the recovery reports and photos submitted for CQ1271 and AF8375 to show up. When they do, then maybe I can answer your question better, since I have a log of when they were submitted in DSWorld.

Hadn't even thought of that. Just copy and paste the PID column of your spreadsheet. Yes, that would be real easy, especially if you just wanted to see these on google earth. Way to go Kayakbird.

As Mike said, You could generate what you need thru GSAK. I was able to do some filtering and global replacements, to show benchmarks I have logged thru the NGS (then I marked them as found). I did a filter off of my initials in the datasheets. It can be done, but may require a little keyboard effort. Some quick questions? 1. Do you log with the NGS? 2. How many different states and benchmarks have you logged (either GC.com or NGS). I see where you mentioned 500 or so. Holograph may have the easy answer for this one, as he is able to keep up with who has logged on both sites.

Have you tried scaredycats benchmark viewer yet? click here EDIT: Took out the part about Foxtrot X-Rays, as he beat me to the punch. LOL

The long answer is that the National Geodetic Survey (NGS) is responsible for what is called the National Spatial Reference System (NSRS). The NSRS consists of many different marks from many different agencies as AZCachemeister correctly stated. For a mark to be included in the NSRS, it has to meet certain standards and specifications (called bluebooking). Once a mark is bluebooked, then it can be included in the NSRS. The NGS then keeps up with all bluebooked marks (including the ones that the NGS actually placed themselves) in the NSRS, and these are the the marks you see on geocaching.com. However, the gc.com database is over 10 years old. There have been marks that have been bluebooked since then (thus aren't in the gc.com database) and marks that have been removed from the NSRS due to being destroyed (but will still show up in the gc.com database. There are thousands of marks, from all kind of agencies, that have not been bluebooked......so they will not be in the NSRS........so they will not be listed on gc.com. You found one of these marks in Roseville. As AZCachemeister stated, you can log these marks not in the NSRS, on Waymarking.com. Here is a link, that I think is it: (Your geocaching log-in is the same for waymarkings site) http://www.Waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=424f2581-a02d-4914-9bc8-8f4cafe02680&wst=9&kw=benchmarks&st=2 I know, that all of these government acronyms can sound alike, but it will come to you. Here is a better explanation from the NGS website. Survey Marks and a National Coordinate System The common sets of reference points used today are the survey marks or starting points from which surveyors work to ensure accurate and consistent surveys across the nation. Most of these survey marks are accurate either horizontally or vertically. A smaller number have data in both horizontal and vertical dimensions. Today, the complete set of survey marks for the United States is known as the National Spatial Reference System (NSRS). These points serve as the foundation for property surveys, nautical charts, highway construction, wastewater facilities or any of the countless activities that require accurate geodetic information. The National Geodetic Survey defines and manages this national coordinate system, one of the most fundamental and necessary components underlying the nation’s infrastructure. NOAA's National Geodetic Survey maintains a database of hundreds of thousands of geodetic control points with precise latitude and longitude coordinates and/or elevations in the National Spatial Reference System. Permanent in-ground monuments like this mark their position. To identify the survey marks in the NSRS, the National Geodetic Survey has traditionally placed marks, or permanent monuments, where it determined precise latitude and longitude coordinates. These markers are brass or bronze disks (metals that sustain weathering) and are set in concrete or bedrock. Each mark is about 9 centimeters (about 3.5 inches) in diameter and has information about the National Geodetic Survey printed on its surface. Newer survey marks are either disks set in concrete or bedrock or long rods driven into the ground and covered with a metal plate to help ensure that they won't move and that people can not destroy or remove them. Other federal, state, and local government agencies, as well as some private entities maintain thousands of geodetic reference stations that are also part of the NSRS. The National Geodetic Survey maintains the survey data for all these stations, as well as the data for its own stations, in a central database and makes it available for public access. The NSRS includes approximately 850,000 permanent markers nationwide.

You are very, very bad (meaning really, really funny). I laughed for 5 minutes. You even managed to stencil the crates. You must be a Photoshop ninja! TillaMurphs is definitely good. Did you notice the subtle LADTD (Louisiana Department of Transportation & Development) acronym on the crossbeam near the ceiling? The only thing missing, is all the crates full of potholes that the HWY Dept places out down here (or we think they do).

ArtMan, you are CQ. It does mean correct. It actually comes from the Phillips Code, which was a telegraph shorthand code so they could send press reports quicker. POTUS and SCOTUS are two of the main examples of Phillips code. I got into a discussion of this same thing a few years back, which is how I know it..... but can't reveal the embarrassing details of how it happened in the forums. Here is a link to an article on it, to add to your useless font. LOL http://www.radions.net/philcode.htm

But I got it......and weird thing is, I thought of the same thing when I first read Jim's reply. Of course, have to watch Indy Jones 4 at least twice a month (it's my 8 year olds favorite one) helped a lot.

ArtMan, I see someone has been listening to you. DSWorld now has logs, that keeps up with a lot of the things you submit. In the above pic background...Utilizing the stations, published, by state/county function of DSWorld, I could see one mark that is listed for Union Parish, but shows up in Lincoln Parish. After reading the datasheet, it is definitely in Lincoln Parish. I sent in a correction thru DSWorld, and here is the log for it. Good deal, and a great suggestion by you.

Thanks Dave. I signed up for it.

I logged the recovery of AF8375 yesterday. It appears that LA must still have some older disks from the USCGS. This one had the logo of USCGS & LA Dept of Highways...........even though it was monumented in 1992 (which is a late date for the ones I have seen), and is 20 years after the USCGS became the NGS. I guess the old saying is true and we are 20 years behind the rest of the nation.......but knowing our HWY Dept, it may have taken them 20 + years to set it.

I always like viewing the recent HH loads option of DSWorld, to see what has been updated around my area. It appears the same thing may have happened with CQ2122 down in LA. Ninja Dave strikes again.

HoustonControl, we placed a lot of the information gleaned from several forums here on our local geocaching forums. There is a tutorial there on a few ways to get the county downloads, as well as how to convert the county/state downloads into gpx files.. It should be in the first post about mid-way down the page. Let us know if that helps you. We'll start you out slow at first, then get you totally addicted. http://www.nelageo.net/index.php/forum/13-benchmarking-and-related-topics/6841-benchmark-101

AZ, do you know which version of DSWorld you currently have? If it is below version 2.10, you can download 2.10 here: then run update after installing it. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PC_PROD/PARTNERS/index.shtml This is taken from the help file, if you want to contact Malcolm directly: Other Problems and Suggestions for Enhancement Should you encounter problems with the program you are encouraged to email the author marchershee@gmail.com with details of the problem, the operating system the program is running on, and any other information that would be helpful to resolve the problem. Suggestions for enhancements are always welcome. Hopefully, it can all get straightened out.

That could be it. The version I am posting screenshots from is DSWorld 2.10.19 I do recall using an older version of DSWorld that didn't let me select multiple photos. This is probably the version you have. Here is Malcolm's list of changes just from version 2.10 to 2.10 + What's New Version 2.10+ Stations>All NGS IDB>By PIDs selection added. FTP tool added. File output directory change added. Get>List of Photos by PIDs added. Calibration baseline (CBL) data viewer added. Ability to send multiple photos added. Additional photo name checking added. HH position submittal form changed. A new photo problem reporting procedure has been added. Photo editing and submitting procedures modified to allow 1024 x 768 photos. The ability to view NAVD88 vertical control was added to the control type selection menu. The projects menu item was moved under Stations. CORS plotting options added Observed gravity information link restored New photo editing tools added. Disk type editing added to photo edit tool. Disk logo editing added to photo edit tool. New data transmission logging added. Disk stamping editing added to photo edit tool. View datasheets by PIDs menu item added. One can now change the registry timeout setting. I am also going to add this part, in case anyone may be having problems getting a timeout error. 12/17/11 - Timeout problem Microsoft's internet explorer (which DSWorld's WinInet.dll uses) has a timeout setting of 30 seconds by default and was overriding DSWorld's timeout setting. The 'Stations by project ID' retrieval and other processes can take up to a minute or more. To fix: 1) Start DSWorld. 2) Click 'Tools>Options>Change Timeout Time' from the main menu. You will be prompted to change the registry entry for the timeout. Select a time in seconds up to 120 seconds. Note: This setting becomes the new global timeout which applies to both Internet Explorer and any WinINet application. The setting only applies to the current user. Other users on the same computer will have to changethe setting for them. 3) Re-start the computer for the new setting to take effect.

Yes we should..........As well as you, TillaMurphs, DragonsWest, and others for the effort ya placed into it. Salute

I believe you can already do this, AZ. 1. Click on the submit button at the top of DSWorld 2. Now Click on the "Digital Photo(s) of Mark(s) 3. Navigate to the folder where you have the digital photos stored (and properly named according to NGS specs) using the drive and directories boxes on the lefthand side of the screen. 4. Now when you see the jpg photo names in the righthand box, (To select multiple photos) A: click the "select all" button near the bottom of the screen to highlight all of them to send or B: Hold down your "Ctrl" button on your keyboard, and using your mouse, click on each jpg photo name you want to submit to highlight it. Once you have highlighted all the file names you want to submit, you let go of the Ctrl key. Click OK Here is a screen shot, using method B of holding down the Ctrl Key and using your mouse to select the photos in a file you want to submit. You want to make sure the photos have been named according to the NGS guidelines.

Great news! Thanks for the status update, ArtMan

Thanks for the guide, but even after reading it I wasn't sure if the NGS marked their intersection stations with a disc or not, because the guide states "If there is no such marker at the published coordinates, then the mark should be considered destroyed." In my mind, that meant perhaps a marker (disc) should be at the location of the tower because it still stands. Though I guess it makes sense that if the object disappears, it can no longer be used as a point of reference, which is why they wouldn't leave a disc. OK, I can see where someone might confuse the terminology of what a mark is. A disk can be a mark......but you need to remember a mark doesn't have to be a disk. A benchmark is a point whose position is known to a high degree of accuracy and is normally marked in some way. The marker is often a metal disk made for this purpose, but it can also be a church spire, a radio tower, a mark chiseled into stone, or a metal rod driven into the ground. Vertical Control Marks These are the true "bench marks". Generally the words BENCH MARK will be printed on them near their rim if the mark is the disk type. Many vertical control marks are not the disk type, however, and can include bolts, rivets, chiseled squares, chiseled crosses, etc. Horizontal Control Marks There are several types of horizontal control marks. They differ by which kind of horizontal control system was used in establishing them and the amount of precision they represent. Most horizontal control marks are marked with a disk, but some are other types such as a chiseled cross, bolt, drill hole, etc. Intersection Stations (a Type of Horizontal Control) An intersection station is a prominent landmark, such as a water tower, radio tower, church spire, mountain top, or any other type of object that can be observed from a distance. These kinds of "large object" station markers, known as intersection stations Now that you are becoming a curious benchmarker like the rest of us-- George Leigh with the NOAA has a fantastic article named "Bottles, Pots, and Pans: Marking the Surveys of the U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey and NOAA"-- A history of the evolution of marks used by the Survey under different names and at different times. You might want to check it out along with some other things at: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/indexhUSCGS.shtml

Welcome to benchmarking. A good place to start is the FAQ section: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/default.aspx where an intersection is explained: Intersection Stations (a Type of Horizontal Control) An intersection station is a prominent landmark, such as a water tower, radio tower, church spire, mountain top, or any other type of object that can be observed from a distance. These kinds of "large object" station markers, known as intersection stations because of the way their coordinates are calculated are usually landmarks higher in the air than any surrounding objects, which allows them to be seen from many miles away in several directions. By observing one or more such points through a telescope, surveyors can determine positions on the surface of the Earth through the use of trigonometry. Intersection Stations Intersection stations are surprisingly tricky. Be sure to read the entire datasheet carefully. Pay particular attention to the first date the structure was reported or established as a survey mark (usually listed as the date "First Observed"). The structure you find must be one that you're certain existed and appeared the same way as it did on that date. If the structure was re-built then the station is effectively destroyed since the re-built version of the structure might be in a slightly different position. If you're uncertain about what happened during the time between when the structure was first monumented (observed) and the present, check with the structure's building manager. Since all intersection stations have adjusted coordinates, they must be at the published coordinates. If there is no such marker at the published coordinates, then the mark should be considered destroyed. If you find a structure that seems to be the correct one, but your GPS indicates that the position is incorrect, you have not found the correct mark. If the intersection station is a water tower, read the datasheet carefully to note the details of the description of the water tower, and the first date the water tower was reported or established as a survey mark. For example, the datasheet says the water tower has 4 legs, has a cone shaped top, and was monumented in 1931. * If you found a water tower that has 6 legs or just one leg (a standpipe), then the water tower station has been replaced, and the water tower station described is destroyed. * If you found a water tower that looks newer than one built in 1931, then the water tower station has been replaced, and the water tower station described is destroyed. * If you found a water tower that has 5 legs and a round top, then the water tower station has been replaced, and the water tower station described is destroyed. * If you have found a water tower that is in the wrong coordinates, then it is not the correct water tower, even if it is what was described in the datasheet, because all water tower stations are location adjusted and cannot be at the wrong coordinates. You should go to the position of the datasheet's coordinates as indicated by your GPS receiver. If the correct water tower is not there, then the station is destroyed.

That does sounds good in theory ArtMan, but really how many casual geocachers actually upload to the NGS, or post recovery reports directly to the NGS. Even some of our diehard benchmarkers here in this forum do not file recovery reports with the NGS I would venture to say, that it is an extremely small percentage, especially when compared to all the benchmark photos on gc.com. I think DaveD has said in another forum post of the actual number of photos (thousands) he has harvested off the gc.com site. I do agree that they will be better off in the NGS computers....which is probably one of the reasons why DaveD goes to all the trouble he does. Hopefully, there will be some sort of solution found to allow the photos to stay like they always have been.

(Emphasis added by me.) Now, I've seen pictures of bearing trees and other items in trees - but I have never heard or seen images of a *disk* in a tree. This is news to me. Has anyone ever seen this? WOW! never seen this, but there are lot's of things I have never seen. I'd hate to be a sawmill worker and have a tree come in with a disk in it unbeknownst.

Mike, I'm not at my computer now that has DSWorld installed on it. I can't remember if the date is auto-filled from your last report or not. I do remember your name, initials, and GEOCAC being auto-saved. As far as the condition of the mark, it's just a mouseclick for it...unless you are on a notebook/netbook/smartphone. Yes, you can edit the setting codes (Maybe DaveD has more to say on that), and the program will actually ask you if you know the placement agency (like CGS)stamped on the marker if they are blank when submitting the report. In the screenshot I used above, I actually filled in the logo part for the CGS.......and the part about the disk projecting 3.5 inches above the ground. You are able to edit each white field shown on the screenshot above.