LSUFan

How much would a 10 X 8 X 3 ft sandstone weigh? QU0182 I'm pretty sure that this one has shoved dirt from several yards away. kayakbird Even if you bought the disk fairly cheap, I bet shipping and handling costs would be a killer

PFF, I didn't see that comment listed in his feedback. It may have been removed. I know that NGS Surveyor has stated several times that he contacts the seller/Ebay whenever he becomes aware of one of their disks being offered for sale. Maybe the powers at the NGS, USGS, Corps of Engineers, etc need to send Ebay an official letter stating the importance of these markers and that they are govt property......and see if Ebay will ban these kind of items of being offered for sale. I sure would hate to have to start a future email off with: Hey Deb Brown, when you have time, can you check out Ebay listing so and so, and mark it as destroyed.

Berntsen also is selling a replica of the COP marker if anyone is interested. http://www.berntsen.com/Go-Shopping/Surveying/Collectibles/Commemorative-Paperweights/ctl/ViewProduct/mid/613/itemID/1543

It appears that the seller isn't going to voluntarily pull it, and Ebay isn't going to force the issue on him. He has over 7000 sales with them, which is a good chunk of change for Ebay. Don't want to bite the hand that feeds you.....even if it does have some dirt under the fingernails. EDIT: Wow, it sold for a good amount. I guess someone believed the story. It's like P.T. Barnum always said......... Hmmmm, maybe I should buy some blank disks from Berntsen, to sell on Ebay. My creative writing story will be that these were the disks that Flight 19 was following the arrows on in 1945, when they disappeared near the Bermuda triangle. After an investigation, it was discovered that a dyslexic subcontractor had mounted a disk with the arrow pointing in the wrong direction, which resulted in the flight being lost. All the disks were removed after this and they were redacted (which is why they are blank), as part of a government coverup.

You're correct. I couldn't have imagined that one.........but this person sure does have an imagination. WOW! I went ahead and sent an eamil to the seller, with an explanation about triangulation stations, reference marks, etc......just in case he didn't know. Now for the fun, I wish we knew where this reference mark actually belonged. It's hard to know, since there is only a date and reference mark disk number imprinted on it (no station name).

OK, since ya have revived this topic, I got to looking at the one in Louisiana again. Another benchmarking buddy of mine, keeps talking that we need to run down there and post a recovery on it one weekend. However, when I looked at the datasheet for it, there are photographs included. These may be from when it was monumented, but not sure. The concrete does still look fairly new in the photos. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=DE5745 There are two pics, that don't seem to go with this disk at all though, and are showing up on the datasheet for it. One appears to be for a triangulation station reset named Garner (which I can't find in my active database of Louisiana benchmarks)....and the other seems to be some kind of cooperative disk between the power squadron and NOS. Anyone have any ideas on why these would be showing up on the COP datasheet for Louisiana? http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/get_image.prl?PROCESSING=get_figure&IID=2630 http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/get_image.prl?PROCESSING=get_figure&IID=2629 Oh Yeah, and here is a pic from the datasheet of ours. Photographer Unknown (right now)

I remember how we were unsuccessful in getting gc.com to move the benchmark links back to the left-hand column of their main page (which is a mute point anyway, since they have changed the main page entirely now). Since they have a new look, some things take a few more clicks to get too. Well, if you are a firefox browser user, and utilize monkey scripts.....you can change how gc.com displays in your browser, by making user definable tabs at the top. You can add more drop down items in each category and change the names of the categories/drop down links. Delta68 (thanks Mark for providing this) over in the U.K. has made this monkeyscript, and included directions in the script itself, on how/what to change....so everyone can do their own to their preferences. It's not hard, but does take a little knowledge of the greasemonkey scripting stuff. I figured with all the computer gurus we have here, they may like this and can write all kind of good stuff. Here is the link to Delta68's topic: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=274005&pid=4711358&st=0entry4711358 I included a screenshot below of how gc.com displays in my firefox browser, after I modified Delta68's script to change the "resources" tab to "benchmarking" and added the three main benchmarking things I use on gc.com to this dropdown list. I plan to add even more later. You can also see how 'videos' has been changed to lists, and 'shop' to log finds.

Mark, thanks so much for this, and for sharing the instructions on how to modify it. I will definitely be using this.

I had saw this on youtube before, and was thinking about making a McGyver kind of multi-geocache placement based off of it. The searcher would find the objects to put together (as in the video) then use it to find a container with coordinates in it to the cache location. I never tested it in real-world applications to see if it really works....

That is extremely interesting, and I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. Everyone is on high alert near the River. They are saying we are going to get higher water than even in the 1920's record floods. Our governor has been flying around a lot. It's going to be nailbiter, hoping the levees hold. I do know some history of the MS River closer to home, being an amateur local Civil War buff. During the Union Army siege of Vicksburg, there were several attempts to dig canals off of the MS River, and thus allow the navy ships to bypass the guns of Vicksburg, and effectively cut off it strategic importance. These attempts failed...........but in the 1870's, the MS River altered it's course naturally....thus bypassing Vicksburg after all. You can go to your map link, and follow it up north to Vicksburg and see where the MS River now leaves the main part of Vicksburg out of it's path. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant%27s_Canal

Joseph, I just played around a little with your mapping program this evening. Your help file about using google sites for placing files free on the internet, was excellent and extremely easy to walk thru. I didn't have any idea that google had that. I used GSAK to help me sort thru some benchmarks I have found, then exported this file in a gpx file. I then uploaded this gpx file to google sites (per your instructions), and here are my results. I will really learn more about your maps when I have more time, but I see a lot of uses for it. Thanks for sharing with us http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?q=https://sites.google.com/site/lsufanfoundmarks/home/ngs-finds/myfindsgsak.gpx

Shorbird, I sent you an email with the name/email of the designer of DSWorld. He has helped me with some questions I had, and maybe knows what to do for the kind of problems you are encountering.

If anyone missed the first episode of the series, it's replaying again tonite at 7 Central time or you can see it online here: http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-states-got-their-shapes/videos/playlists/full-episodes#how-the-states-got-their-shapes-a-river-runs-through-it

Mike, whenever you download datasheets, they are going to be in the .dat file format. You will need to use a convertor program that changes them to a .gpx format that your gps unit and programs like GSAK can read. There are a few fantastic pieces of software that will do these conversions for you. (Listed in alphabetical order)There is one called BMGPX, another named NGS-GPX, and another called NGSREAD

Shorbird, I have found out that when using the DSWorld help file, it is easier for me if I do the following. Once I click on the "DSWorld help' tab at the top of the program, I make sure on the next window that appears, that I select the 'contents' tab and not the 'index' tab. Then after I had made sure the contents tab is active, I click the '+' in front of each file name to expand the help file topics. I now can see all the help topic file titles, and just click on each one that I need....especially the"problems and suggestions" and 'google earth settings' the first time I used the program. I had to change some settings on my computer and in google earth. I have also seen that when I submit photos and handheld 2 coordinates using DSWorld (and other functions), that it has to connect with the NGS servers each time, You can read this happening at the bottom of the window and you have to allow the program time to do it. You will always get a thank you popup window, once it's done.......so make sure you get this before going to another step.

Really, it depends on the 'type' of benchmark you are searching for, as to whether it will have exact coordinates. In actuality, the majority of marks published in the NGS database are going to have scaled coordinates (off by as much as 600+ feet), but extremely accurate elevation numbers....since these types were placed for elevation purposes. As time goes by, many of these elevation benchmarks are getting accurate horizontal coordinates published for them. Here are some excerpts from the FAQ section that may help explain this: Kinds of Benchmarks Benchmarks can be divided into two general groups. The first group, "vertical control points" are objects that mark a very precise elevation above the standard datum plane (usually referred to as elevation "above sea level"). The second group are the "horizontal control points" - objects with precisely established latitude and longitude. At this point, we should explain that "benchmark" is a generic term that is used here at Geocaching.com to refer to all geodetic control points. In the surveying profession, however, the term bench mark (usually two words) is used specifically for points of known elevation, or vertical control. When the benchmark is established at known latitude and longitude, it is described as horizontal control. The generic terms favored by professionals to describe horizontal control are station or mark, rather than "benchmark". What is the difference between "Location Adjusted" and "Location Scaled?" Simply put, "location adjusted" means that the published coordinates are very accurate, and "location scaled" means that the published coordinates are not very accurate. The published positions for benchmarks with adjusted horizontal coordinates were computed using advanced surveying techniques and are far more accurate than even the finest handheld GPSr can get. The position of a benchmark with "scaled" coordinates was derived by a human in an office by estimating the location of the mark on a topographic map with a scale (ruler). As such, they can be off by 600 feet or more from the actual position though deviations in the 100 - 150 foot range are more common. Your handheld GPS may be very helpful in finding benchmarks with adjusted horizontal coordinates, but can be nearly useless for finding benchmarks with scaled horizontal coordinates. The good news is that only vertical control points have scaled horizontal coordinates. Trying to use your GPS "GOTO" function to find a benchmark with scaled horizontal coordinates will usually lead to frustration and failure. How can I determine whether a particular mark is "Location Adjusted" or "Location Scaled?" * On a Geocaching benchmark datasheet, the second line under the coordinates will say either "location is ADJUSTED" or "location is SCALED". * On the 9th line of an NGS benchmark datasheet, to the right of the latitude and longitude coordinates, will be either the word ADJUSTED or the word SCALED. (Don't confuse this with the next line down, which tells whether the vertical elevation is adjusted or scaled.) EDIT: Shorbird explained it while I was typing my post up. Sorry for the duplicate

Kayakbird, Not sure if you are using Google Earth or Google Maps. In Google Earth, if you change the units to feet at the beginning of your session they will stay that way. However, I can’t understand why you would want to use ”feet” when you have the option of using “smoots” – at least in Google Earth. (For some reason, the NGS continues to resist my repeated requests for them to convert to smoots as their official base unit of length measurement?) I checked on GE and the ruler/measurement does appear to stay in whatever unit I selected in the drop-down menu box.......... but that may not work over any extended period of time, or if I don't save cookies. I couldn't see an easy way to change it for a default setting, but the experts here may know how. Tillamurphs, reading that smoots comment made me wonder if you were a MIT guy.

Southpawaz nailed it. It should be the reference mark 2 for the triangulation station Ford. It says 'reference mark' on the righthand side of the disk. KT2014'THE STATION MARK IS A STANDARD DISK STAMPED FORD 1949 SET KT2014'IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE CYLINDER 10 INCHES IN DIAMETER KT2014'THE TOP OF WHICH LIES ABOUT 10 INCHES BELOW THE SURFACE OF KT2014'THE GROUND. IT IS 29.0 FEET WEST OF THE CENTER LINE OF U.S. KT2014'HIGHWAY 101. KT2014' KT2014'REFERENCE MARK NUMBER 1 IS A STANDARD DISK STAMPED FORD NO 1 1949 KT2014'SET IN THE TOP OF A 10-INCH SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS KT2014'ABOUT 4 INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND. IT IS 2.0 FEET NORTHEAST OF A KT2014'POWER LINE POLE, 29.6 FEET EAST OF THE CENTER LINE OF U.S. KT2014'HIGHWAY 101 AND ABOUT THE SAME ELEVATION AS THE STATION. KT2014' KT2014'REFERENCE MARK NUMBER 2 IS A STANDARD DISK STAMPED FORD NO KT2014'2 1949 SET IN THE TOP OF A 10-INCH SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT KT2014'PROJECTS ABOUT 5 INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND. IT IS 15.0 FEET KT2014'SOUTH OF THE CENTER LINE OF A SIDE ROAD, 36.8 FEET WEST OF THE KT2014'CENTER LINE OF U.S. HIGHWAY 101 AND ABOUT THE SAME ELEVATION KT2014'AS THE STATION. KT2014' KT2014'THE AZIMUTH MARK IS A STANDARD DISK STAMPED FORD 1949 SET IN KT2014'THE TOP OF A 10-INCH SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS ABOUT KT2014'5 INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND. IT IS 3.8 FEET EAST OF A POWER KT2014'LINE POLE AND 28.6 FEET NORTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF THE KT2014'CENTER LINES OF U.S. HIGHWAY 101 AND A SIDE ROAD. TO REACH KT2014'THE AZIMUTH MARK FROM THE STATION, GO NORTH ON U.S. HIGHWAY KT2014'101 FOR 0.25 MILE TO A SIDE ROAD ON THE LEFT AND THE AZIMUTH KT2014'MARK ON THE RIGHT. George has an excellent tutorial on triangulation stations, and what kind of disks (with their purposes in a set) that is pinned at the very top of the benchmark forums here. It will help explain (and show) what the reference mark disks are. Sometimes a reference mark disk can have it's own separate PID datasheet, but most of the time they don't. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185361

Thanks Z15. That confirms my thoughts that the reset from 1970 was using a recycled disk, if the WPA types were set out in the 30's.....and helps explain the low fine. fyi This doc summarizes work done in all states..who was in charge etc https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B2spwGyJdPXHYzU5Y2JhZTYtOTdlMy00ODRmLTlhNjEtYWUwNTlmNjE3NjZl&hl=en&authkey=CNv2kKwO About midway thru this next doc they discuss the WPA projects https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B2spwGyJdPXHM2RkZmVhOGEtNzRlZi00ZTFjLTllNGEtY2FhMjljYWE3NWY3&hl=en&authkey=CKWq0pcP Thanks for those links Z15. That is interesting reading. I liked it. I saw our own DaveD's name on the letterhead at the beginning. Apparently he does more at the NGS than just make television appearances.

Hi Katie, you might get a better response by posting this on the Mississippi geocachers site, which is www.msga.net Bobby

Thanks Z15. That confirms my thoughts that the reset from 1970 was using a recycled disk, if the WPA types were set out in the 30's.....and helps explain the low fine.

Howdy Everyone. I found an interesting disk (at least to me) today. For CQ1171, there is only a $50 dollar fine for disturbing it. It appears to be an older disk, that I thought maybe was recycled somewhat, when it was reset in 1970. Is this something that could be considered common practice? EDIT: As I went back over my finds for benchmarks placed by the Louisiana Geodetic Survey, it appears they used several types. The one shared with the USCGS almost looks homemade.

Otter, if you are the owner of the cache they are listed in, just go to the travel bug page. Make sure you are logged in to gc.com. You will see an option on the righthand side dropdown box listed under "actions" to mark the bug as missing. You'll then get a page asking you if are sure you want to mark this trackable as missing....you just click on the "agree" button and you're done. It's simple You just need to do it for each travel bug that is showing up in your cache. The easiest way is just click on each trackable from your cache page.

You're more than welcome. I see you have posted a great pic now for RF0689. That's all it takes. Good deal. FYI, even though you can log intersection station benchmarks on gc.com......the NGS has kinda said they are not really interested in having those kind directly reported to them (if you ever decide to report recoveries to the NGS), unless they have been destroyed.

Flask, I am unsure exactly what you are asking here. RF0689 is an intersection station. It's not a disk, but the peak of a mountain that would be able to be seen from a distance. Nobody could have claimed to see a disk for this one, as there isn't one. They could easily log it as found, cause they sure should be able to see a mountain peak. If you were standing on this peak, then you were standing on this intersection station type benchmark. RF0690 actually is a disk, set in a rock outcrop. Are you sure you posted the correct PID's for this, as these two marks have completely different datasheets that don't read alike? EDIT: Here is the definition of an intersection station type of benchmark: Intersection Stations (a Type of Horizontal Control) An intersection station is a prominent landmark, such as a water tower, radio tower, church spire, mountain top, or any other type of object that can be observed from a distance. These kinds of "large object" station markers, known as intersection stations because of the way their coordinates are calculated are usually landmarks higher in the air than any surrounding objects, which allows them to be seen from many miles away in several directions. By observing one or more such points through a telescope, surveyors can determine positions on the surface of the Earth through the use of trigonometry. EDIT 2: I looked up RF0690 on gc.com, and you are correct in your assessment that the pics posted are not of RF0690. The pics there are for reference marks placed by the MAINE D.O.T. in 1993. They could have possibly placed their own triangulation station with the HAYSTACK name.......so you might find several disks there. Only the one that matches the description for RF0690 and had that stamping will be the actual one that goes to that datasheet. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=RF0690 You will find lot's of benchmarks that are not going to be listed in the NGS database, or on gc.com. Here is an explanation of that: I found a benchmark, but it isn't in the database. Why? To answer this question, you need to understand a bit about what "the database" is. The database used by Geocaching.com is a copy (from around 2000) of the database that NGS maintains. Although the NGS database has lots of marks in it, it does not have them all. In order for a mark to get into NGS's database, it has to go through a process known as "bluebooking" which ensures the disk meets the minimum requirements to be of geodetic quality (aka the highest quality possible). The NGS is not the only organization that creates and uses benchmarks and other types of control markers. In order for any mark to get "in the database" they must be "bluebooked", which can take a lot of time and effort and is often not done to save money. Remember, even though some marks might not be in the database, they are still highly important, both to businesses and to individual citizens such as your neighbors, so please treat them with respect, while enjoying the thrill of the hunt. We'll try to find other databases and add them to the site as well. If you have access to one of these databases and would like to submit it to Groundspeak, contact us. Since the Groundspeak benchmark database was obtained from the NGS in the year 2000, newer benchmarks and recent reports on older marks will not be visible here in Groundspeak's copy. Besides new disks, there are many cases of benchmarks monumented significantly before 2000 but entered the NGS database only after the year 2000. Hope this helps some. We just love when a mystery of sorts get posted to the forums, and we all like to see if we can figure it out.