Old Bet

At Prince's Island Nature Walk (GCJ687) in Calgary, Alb. we zeroed in on the coordinates, which seemed to be under a bush. Lifted some branches out of the way -- and found a guy in a sleeping bag right where the cache should have been. (This was at about 2 p.m. on a warm August afternoon.) I was going to nudge him and ask him, politely, to move off the friggin' cache, but the other half of the brigade had a better idea: "RUN LIKE HELL." Which is what we did, settling for a burger, a beer and a DNF. (The cache was archived shortly after, as a few others had similar experiences.) I suppose this qualifies as finding a body at a cache site.

Hermit Crabs: Thanks for the quick response. Offending photo is gone.

I just inadvertenly uploaded an image to the wrong log. Short of deleting the entire log and starting over, is there a way to delete the image? (I suspect there is an obvious answer to this that I am missing.)

If you have sharp eyes, at least one mapping program --Microsoft Mappoint Microsoft Mappoint does give you the coordinates, in decimal format. Search for the address and click "get map" When the map appears, carefully examine the address line in your browser. You will see something like this: http://mappoint.msn.com/(ktplxh55gs2yws55u...A&C=41.02098%2c-73.72604&A=7.16667&P=|41.02098%2c-73.72604|1|1+Gannett+Dr%2c+West+Harrison%2c+NY+10604|L1| the latitude and longitude are in there. I made them bold in the example.

If you have sharp eyes, you can use Microsoft Mappoint Microsoft Mappoint Search for the address and click "get map" When the map appears, carefully examine the address line in your browser. You will see something like this: http://mappoint.msn.com/(ktplxh55gs2yws55u...p.aspx?L=USA&C=41.02098%2c-73.72604&A=7.16667&P=|41.02098%2c-73.72604|1|1+Gannett+Dr%2c+West+Harrison%2c+NY+10604|L1| the latitude and longitude (decimal format) are in there. I made them bold in the example. Because these are decimal coordinates, use the decimal option on the "Hide and Seek a Cache" page on gc.com. And don't forget: when using decimal coordinates, you need to use the minus sign for south latitude and west longitude. In the example, notice the longitude begins -73 because it is west. Hope this information is of some use.

Feb. 21 marked the first anniversary of our first find. Perhaps some of what we learned during the first year will be of some use to folks who are just starting out, beginning with three lessons, two of which we learned the hard way. Lesson One: A map is a terrible thing to waste. You might think that, with a GPS in hand, there is no need for a trail map. Not so. Seeking a cache while vacationing in Jasper. B.C. we were dismayed when the trail seemingly veered in the wrong direction. So we set off on a herd path, which dead-ended in a tangle of brambles and underbrush. Running short of daylight and with a 3-mile return hike ahead of us, we abandoned the hunt, about 3-10ths of a mile short of the goal. Back in the hotel, we unfolded the trail map and saw that the trail we abandoned would soon have made a sharp left directly toward the cache site. So we traveled 1,400 miles for a DNF. (And here's the super-dumb part: the woodlands we were in actually had maps posted at each trail junction.) Lesson Two: Trust your GPS. If the receiver tells you to go 140 feet in that direction, do it. Don't examine the terrain and decide you know better -- that the cache can't possibly be over there. Your GPS may not be dead-on accurate, but it knows more than you do. Fortunately, that DNF is only six miles from home, so we'll be back as soon as the snow melts. Lesson Three: Don't leave home without it. Before leaving on a trip, we check for caches along the way and take the GPS with us. We don't plan our trips with caching as a goal, but if we find caches along the way, it's a bonus. Without any changes in plans, we found caches during a business trip to Hollywood, and on a long weekend in Boston (right along the Freedom Trail.) In fact, our first find was at DisneyWorld, on vacation. Also: Cache vicariously: Spring for a few bucks and get yourself a travel bug. It's just neat tracking its movements. The Old Bet TB is still trying to get home from the Canadian Rockies, waiting out the winter on someone's bookshelf in Albany. Cache to your comfort level: Spend time in the forums, and you will encounter cachers with hundreds of finds. For some folks, caching is the primary recreation. We're more casual about it. Basically, after that first February find, we did not return to caching until spring, and we averaged 3 1/2 caches a month until the snows of January. If cache-counting is not your game, don't count caches. And don't be intimidated by those who do. (In fairness, while spending time in the forums we haven't encountered hostility toward those of us less involved in the activity. But we have learned a lot from those much more experienced cachers.) Finally: we don't know. Is geocaching a sport, game, activity or hobby? Sorry, but we do not know the answer. See you in the woods.

Try your local newspapers. Many still use aluminum sheets, called plates, which are blank on one side, for offset printing. They'll probably sell you one for a pittance (but not free, since most newspapers sell the plates to recyclers.). The stuff is easy to cut with tin snips or a decent pair of scissors, and you can get dozens of good sized tags out of a single sheet.

This may be old news to some of you, but I just discovered it. If you do a search to map a street address in MapPoint or RandMcNally, when the search is completed and the map appears, the latitude and the longitude (decimal) will be embedded in the URL for the page. They may be surrounded by other "stuff," but they are in there. Here's what it looks like in MapPoint, with the coordinates emboldened: http://mappoint.msn.com/(dn4lgz45gykodh55i...map.aspx?L=USA&C=41.03388%2c-73.76328&A=7.16667&P=|41.03388%2c-73.76328|1|1+N+Broadway%2c+White+Plains%2c+NY+10601|L1| Can be a useful feature.

Considering the grief geocaching seems to get down here in the US of A from time to time, here's a refreshing tidbit from our friends north of the border: Vancouver parks board commissioner Heather Deal already enjoys orienteering-a map-and-compass based sport-and is happy geocaching is a growing activity in city parks. "I'm thrilled. I've already gone to the [geocaching] web page, and found a whole bunch I'm going to look for," she says. "It's almost like having somebody else run a recreation program for us in the park at no cost to us." That's a quote from the Vancouver Courier news article posted on the new gc.com home page. Wouldn't it be nice if all land managers shared that attitude?

Nope, looking for NYC guy/gal. Now that I know it's NY Admin for the entire state, I'm all set. So I guess I can close this thread. Thanks.

So where's my airline tickets? Or did they go to Team Misguided?

I'm a journalist and I sure wouldn't call this journalism, either.

I'm wondering if there is a way to contact a local approver in a certain area, short of submitting an actual cache proposal, to ask a couple of preliminary questions? I considered making up a bogus, or incomplete, new-cache-request just to get his or her attention, but that seemed, well, bogus. Any suggestions?

Coordinates, man, coordinates! Don't forget you can search for caches by latitude and longitude. If you don't have mapping software or a good atlas, use Google. I just did a quick Google search and placed Puerto Vallarta at 20.40 N, 105.15 W. Not as accurate as we usually work with, but it's close enough to initiate a search of the general area. Entered those coordinates in the search page, and the first one to pop up was the very same cache as suggested by Team Misguided. (And always remember: as a service to the geocaching community, the Old Bet Brigade stands ready to accompany you to Mexico to assist with the cache hunt. Just send us the tickets. Or, maybe you would prefer to take Team Misguided with you, since they seem to be more familiar with the territory. )

Good point. Think in real-world terms. The rest of us are in in for the fun of it. Groundspeak has a financial interest in geocaching. (I am in no way implying that is a bad thing!) Groundspeak has the strongest motivation to work to promote our sport/game/activity and to lobby against unrealistic limits or bans on geocaching. So we can expect Groundspeak to be an advocate. Consider the alternatives: if geocaching becomes too restricted, all we'll have left is a bunch of urban virtuals, the Old Bet Brigade will never get to 100 and Jeremy will have to go out and get a real job.

Oops....posted incompletely, so erasing. Sorry.

One point I think ought to be made in dealing with land managers is that geocachers do not overwhelm the land. I just checked the logs for last summer for several caches in parks in Westchester County, NY -- an area of somewhat dense population -- and the logs record perhaps 3 to 5 cachers a month. That does not seem like a big threat. Then consider that most of the more environmentally sensitive parklands are remote, requiring a hike. The would indicate that cache seekers are somewhat dedicated hikers, and people who appreciate the outdoors. Not the sort of people who are insensitive to the sensitive nature of natural areas. I think land managers want to regulate caching: (1) because they don't really understand the nature of the beast (2) they overesitimate the popularity of the sport/game/activity and (3) mostly, they regulate it because they can. People who are designated stewards of public land ought to be encouraging the public enjoyment of that land, not discouraging benign activities. I know, in the case of the Old Bet Brigade, caching has taken us to several nature preserves we would not otherwise have visited. So, whether we deal with land managers as individuals, as regional groups or as the suggested national organization, we ought to include a polite reality check in what we say.

Hey, maybe something good can come out of this. Since the state is regulating cache placement, they ought to be able to make it an infraction of some sort to move or remove a cache. Not suggesting muggles go to jail, but something akin to a parking ticket. The state-issued sticker could include a warning that the cache must not be moved from its approved location, except by the placer or park personnel.

But wouldn't anything like this be based on straight-line crow-flying distances between the actual caches? Wouldn't you really need to map the parking areas? And take a look at the Manhattan (NYC) geocaching map: caches that seem to be close togther are separated by significant bodies of water, the Hudson River on one side, the East River on the other.

Thanks for all who responded. Looks like Campmor is the place. Especially since there are 29 caches within 5 miles of the store. (You gotta love any shoppe that posts its coordinates on its Web sits.) I'm happy with my LL Beans. My wife probably could find boots at Beans, but it would mean a lot of trial-and-error shipping back and forth, we think.

Can anyone recommend a good place to buy mid-priced hiking boots in NYC or the northern suburbs? One half of the Brigade (not me) has trouble finding boots that are comfortable for her shortish-but-wide feet. So we need someplace with a good selection and where the sales people have some expertise in fitting boots to feet. Thanks.

Wait a minute! Who told Jeremy he could take time off for hobbies? Doesn't he have a loooong and never-ending list of enhancements to implement? Stick with the program, man.

I know there have been extensive discussions about the new cache attributes. So if this has been asked-and-answered, I apologize for the redundancy. What exactly does the winter icon (Jeremy's snowflake) indicate? Does it mean the cache site is not seasonal, e.g., a park that is closed during the winter? Or does it mean the cache is snow friendly?

Exit 6 (Route 35) off I-684, then west to Rte 100, then north. It seems likely that access to this tract will be off Route 139 (Primrose Street). Probably still a few months away, obviously, before anyone can get into the area.

In a way, I'm surprised Jeremy's lawyers allowed the "hazards" options. My worry for geocaching is that one of these days, someone is going to get bitten by a tick (or worse) and sue Groundspeak, and maybe the cache hider, despite the disclaimer that we geocache at our own free will and peril. With the new attributes, we have an option to warn about ticks (and other dangers). Some day, a plaintiff's attorney is going to argue that there was an opportunity to warn about ticks or whatever, but the opportunity was not used because the cache hider did not add an available attribute to the cache page. I hope I'm wrong. Any members of the plaintiff's bar out there able to calm my worries?