Trinity's Crew

I read a lot of the logs from that cache. Many of them mentioned the problems with the cache. It seems that the owner was inattentive, and I don't know whether being rude would have made any difference in this case. After all, you were "blunt" (your words) and it didn't seem to phase him. I don't think you were rude, though. However he is still caching. A brief look at his stats page shows cache finds as recently as January of this year.

I'm P O'd that I didn't think of that!

You can speak freely without speaking rudely. This is even more true of the written word. What might slip out in while one is speaking, left to hang in the air for your embarrassment, can be more easily avoided in writing. The real issue is that I don't believe most people would be rude to the cache placer in person. It is the anonymity that spurs some of the more thoughtless remarks. If you didn't like it say "I didn't enjoy this cache." Explain why. This gives vital info to the placer and future seekers.

I believe that's camouflaged. And I belive it's believe.

Good post CR. It has given me some insight into your message. I'm sure it's been there all along though. I'm all for encouraging people to place quality caches. The tone of some of your posts sometimes causes that message to be lost. (On me, anyway) There is no way I can read all of your posts, but I'll try to read some more. From the ones I have read, I have gotten the impression that you are complaining about what you perceive to be bad caches rather than trying to encourage people to place good ones. This is a subtle but important difference. Off topic -sorry

Quote This is very helpful oppinion. What you are saying makes sense. I have already altered my log to reflect that sort of change. I know, and I believe it was the right thing to do. I respect you a lot for that. As a read the posts it seemed obvious that some people still seem to want to trash the hider. That is just bad form. You can get your point across (and did) without making it personal. Edited to add quote (poorly). These guys post fast!

I said it before, I'll say it again... Expressing opinions about the cache (I was disappointed when I found this micro because this park would be a great place for a regular, or the large amount of broken glass in the area makes it unsafe for smaller children ...) OK! Expressing opinions about the placers (Why did you... What were you thinking when you... You sure wasted my time when you...) NOT OK!

I thought micros in a great spot were okay. I thought that the idea was to take you somewhere nice. I realize that your view on "junk caches" and "lame micros" may be different than others who have posted. That's okay, but it illustrates my point that the whole issue is too subjective for anyone to be able to claim "I know what a lame cache is, and you will agree with my definition of lame because I know best."

There are many types of caches that are widely considered to be unappealing. You can't tell me that anything but very small segment of the geocaching population actually enjoys caches in feces and debris strewn lots, caches next to homeless encampments, caches in heroin "shooting galleries" and caches next to garbage dumpsters. How many actually fall into this category? What percentage? 1 % 1/10 of 1%? I've seen this argument but I haven't encountered any caches like this. (I'm sure you can post a few, but there are many many thousands of caches hidden out there, right? More often than not, I see words like "lamp post" or "parking lot" and "uninspiring" or "lazy" associated with these threads. The feces and the addicts, not so much. (Maybe WalMart addicts. ) Anyway, there are ways to deal with these types of caches by logging them honestly. Found cache in feces in a lot filled with debris. (Although I think I would have to pass on finding that one. ) Maybe just a note or DNF stating the same thing. Enough of these logs along with some "Should be archived" logs would probably eliminate the problem.

Okay, I lied. I'm back. Sorry to debate this AGAIN. It just seemed to need both perspectives represented. Also, having approvers shoot down caches that are "over-represented" is a direct attempt to regulate cache placement. As I stated before, too much regulation is likely to hurt, not help the game. Edited to add things that I forgot to type!

Good luck with the fight/campaign/crusade/opinion. I really don't have the time to keep this up. I know that many people feel very strongly about the issue of caches being "lame". I agree that some/many caches are not as much fun as others. My problem stems from the fact that there is no way administer this since "lame" is completely subjective. Putting further restrictions on cache placement is likely to hurt the game rather than help it. IMO the best way to fight lame caches is to ignore those caches that you dislike and get like-minded people to place quality caches in the area you live. P.S. I'm getting ready to hide my first cache. It's a "lame ammo box" that I'm going to place in a "lame hollow tree" not too far from a hiking trail in a park near my house. I have many reasons for picking this particular spot. I just don't see why I need to justify them to anyone.

Man, you seem to lump many types of caches into the "lame" category. (Unless I misunderstood your post) I guess that's my problem. Everyones idea of lame is different.

I am not arguing for "junk caches in unappealing places". Nice try, though. I am arguing that there is no universally agreed upon standard for "lame" nor is there likely to be.

I agree that CR is not deciding anything directly. He is however trying to influence the opinions of those who play and moderate the game. This is absolutely his right, but it is my right to express a dissenting opinion for the exact same reasons.

Your opinions are valid. As is MINE, since, after all they are only opinions. As for a CAMPAIGN to place so many "what some consider lame" micros, please point me to threads where this is the topic starter. Then look at the number of threads where "lame caches" is the theme. I didn't say anything about what anyone else should do/think/post. I merely stated that I don't think I have the right to decide for everyone. Thanks for the input!

I'm sure I would enjoy quick caches in perfectly nice locations. I just don't believe I have the right to decide that for everyone.

Well if they couldn't figure out the hint until after they found the cache, then I guess it didn't really help, did it?

I disagree. I usually know how challenging or intersesting a cache will be before I leave the house based on: Terrain/Difficulty, size, location, description, etc... I am fairly new to the game and I still have plenty of caches of all kinds that are within a few miles of my home. I prefer regular caches that take me to parks or hiking trails, but I have specifically sought out parking lot caches when time didn't allow for more. It bothers me that there appears to be a campaign to do away with lame caches. Lame is in the eye of the beholder, and while I may agree with many of the examples of "lame caches" that have been bandied about, I also likely wouldn't have been surprised by the "lameness" after looking at the various attributes of those caches. I also know that there will be examples of caches that surprise you in there "lameness" once you actually find them, but I believe they are in the minority. edit: spelling and added "likely"

Because the site hosts a game that I really enjoy. I certainly don't agree with some of the things discussed on this site, but I reserve the right to debate them. Am I whining?

I agree that you should log your impressions about a cache, but make them "your" impressions. The statement "why did you place this silly micro." Is combative and argumentative. You could have gotten the same point across by saying, "There are plenty of good places here for a regular size cache, I really would have enjoyed that a lot more." This gets across your point that you didn't like the micro without passing judgement on the owner. Of course, if it was your intention to pass judgement, then this tactic won't work at all.

I agree that you can't always determine whether a cache isworth pursuing until you get there, and if (when) I am forced to drive 30-40 miles I might be disappointed by caches that are not maintained or placed behind a dumpster. However I have read "lame Walmart micros" and "lame lamp post micros" in these forums more times than I can count. I have found a few of these in my limited experience, and I knew where I would be searching before I left the house. Titles like "Wally's Delight" or "Rollback the Micro" kind of make you realize where you'll end up. My problem is that people complain about these caches even when it is obviously a parking lot/lamp post/guard rail hide. As has been said before, if you don't like these don't find 'em. I don't LOVE them, but they have allowed me an opportunity to find a cache when I only have a limited amount of time to play.

There are many high difficulty caches that I wouldn't even attempt. They don't interest me. However, I don't believe I have the right to complain about them just because I wouldn't enjoy doing them. I realize that there are many people who love these types of caches.

While I have been disappointed by hints that really aren't hints, I am even more frustated by hints that are so cryptic that I can't understand them. I don't have any examples off the top of my head, But I'm sure we've all read,"The clue didn't seem to help." (Usually on the DNF logs ) Anyway if you didn't appreciate the encrypted non-hint, just note it in your log with something like, "We were having trouble finding the cache and we decided to manually decrypt the clue. We were really disappointed to find that it wasn't really a clue at all." You may want to encrypt that part of the log entry (ironic, huh?) so that you aren't accused of logging a "spoiler".

I carry a lot of swag with me. (when I don't leave it in the car) My son is twelve and still loves geocaching. I know it won't be too long before it becomes uncool for him. Anyway, he likes to bring friends when we go. If at the end of the day, we haven't found any thing worth trading for, I let his friends take an item from my bag. It's not quite the same but it makes them happy.