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Posts posted by Cuddlefish

  1. I'm a geocacher and I do not play Munzee. What I have noticed recently is a trend of "geocaching events" being held concurrently to Munzee events. I can often tell the precise moment the geocaching event becomes the Munzee event too, as people take out their wallets to pay the host as apparently that is their rule. I have never felt like a muggle at a geocaching event until recently...



  2. I have disabled my cache http://coord.info/GC3233Y as I do not want it to be part of the cache machine, thanks. I've had a bad experience with cache machines and my caches in the past.


    Since you waited so long before you made the announcement don't be surprised if you get a number of finds. 9:30pm the night before just about everyone has the GPS's loaded and nearly no one is looking at the forums.


    NOT one person involved in this cache machine contacted me about this. I'm lucky I found out about it at all. Thanks.

  3. Phil, your original post contains a lot of speculation. I'm suggesting we wait for the facts to be known first.


    Phil, nothing has been decided as yet. BCGA has definitely given their input to MVP. However as the land managers they get the final say. We remain hopeful they will listen to our suggestions. They do want geocaching in their parks. In fact I am still employed to teach geocaching in MVPs in the Spring


    Was the current policy rescinded or not?


    You are aware of many caches in Metro parks including my own awaiting to be published, if it was not rescinded then caches need to be published as per the current policy in place.


    Caches don't get held up by the reviewer because of something that might happen. (This comes directly from a BC reviewer).



  4. Phil, nothing has been decided as yet. BCGA has definitely given their input to MVP. However as the land managers they get the final say. We remain hopeful they will listen to our suggestions. They do want geocaching in their parks. In fact I am still employed to teach geocaching in MVPs in the Spring.


    I have found out today after trying to publish some new caches in a Metro Vancouver Park that the current caching policy has been rescinded.


    It means that no new caches can be placed in a Metro Vancouver Park. Why is this? It was because just about 3 years ago there was a power trail placed in Burnaby Lake Park. The caches were placed at the 161 m and slightly more apart but they saturated the park. I know the first day they were out that several of us ran into the Parks Manager who was very upset of this.

    Instead of the BCGA stepping in or anyone else for that matter and getting some of the caches archived they remained. You would have to be under a rock in the Vancouver area to not know that Metro Parks was going to soon review the policy. As I understand it the BCGA stood by and did nothing or very little at best.

    There is likely to be a further meeting on caches in Metro parks now and what happens to them. There was a 3 year rule under the prior policy and those around Burnaby Lake were likely to be archived. The oldest cache in BC is in Spirit Park at UBC.


    The problem is many parks in BC have similar power trails like this. If other jurisdictions look at Vancouver to their policy this could start a wave of caching in parks being banned.


    Just adds to the current title of Vancouver a no fun city.



  5. The no solicitation guideline is one of the most difficult to grasp. People post caches that promote something that, to them, is not an agenda. They simply put words that express a feeling that seems pretty non-controversial. It's hard do see why anyone would object to "Say thank you to the health care professionals" or "Say thank you to a teacher".


    Then they see another cache that, to them, seems to clearly have an agenda. A tribute to a local politician must be soliciting support for that politician, if not for votes, then perhaps in support of his policies.


    So what is the difference exactly?


    While only a Groundspeak lackey or perhaps a senior reviewer like Keystone can answer this, I have my ideas based on what has come up in the past.


    In judging whether something is an agenda the reviewer are careful to avoid subjective judgements that can be effected by whether they agree with the cache page's perspective or not. So instead they look for objective criteria.


    The objective criteria for solicitation is often more difficult to define than the criteria for a commercial cache. In part, Groundspeak realizes that people may want to put caches at hospitals, libraries, museums, and other locations that while business, may be non-profit and certainly are not places where you'd be expected to buy something (other than perhaps admission). They also understand that people want to hide tribute caches in honor of a friend or a cache that commemorates something important in their life. There is also the recognition that someone might create a cache themed around a local sports team or a favorite band. The commercial and agenda rules are specifically worded to allow for these.


    One of the objective things the reviewer look for to decided if something is an agenda, is whether the cache page asks the finder to do something. This does just mean "donate money" or "vote for so-and-so". It's enough to ask someone to "Think about this". Certainly the ever popular "Thank a health care professional" or "Thank a teacher" are seen as asking the cache finder to do something. It doesn't matter that it is innocuous or uncontroversial.


    On the other hand, you can present facts that are related to the theme of the caches. You can describe how your team won the Stanley Cup :P (which might be seen as an agenda in Canada :unsure:) or give some facts about the number of records your favorite band has sold (just don't say "buy this record" or even "listen to this record").


    It's clear that the OP could have had her cache published if she simply left out one sentence, or replaced it by some facts such as how the doctors and nurses work long shifts. Perhaps because the "asking someone to do something" rule isn't spelled out, it may not have been clear to her that this was the problem.


    On the other hand the tribute cache seemed to stick to giving facts about the politician's career and about the cache owner's experience working on a campaign. While it is clear that cache owner supports the politician, we are not told "support Joe Trasolini" or "vote for Joe Trasolini" or even "say thank you to Joe Trasolini".


    The OP could have been just as clear of her position on the Canadian health care system without the cache page becoming an "agenda", simply by avoiding an innocuous phrase.


    Thank you! Now that makes sense! I have another cache that is called "Thank you Metro Vancouver Parks" http://coord.info/GC3887N that no one ever asked me to change. It is interesting that the title "Thank you Children's Hospital" was not allowed on its own, irrespective of the cache page contents but the former one is fine. It must have been one imperative statement sullied the title of the cache also.

  6. Thank you for your reply Keystone. I don't mind my cache being archived. I had warning it would be done. I wanted an explanation why the political one is NOT an agenda. So far no one was been able to explain it. Can you explain why this political cache is not an agenda?


    As was stated above, the reviewers in question are the only ones who can really answer the question. I'd guess it had/has something to do with the actual phrasing involved. With the exception of the last line of the cache description about Joe, there's nothing political there at all, it's all history and information. The last line has a little bit of an agenda in there, but not much of one. It also doesn't ask anyone to do anything.


    There's not much more answer you can get here unless you're looking for opinions. Opinions probably won't be much in your favor given that you came in here on a small rant without giving the whole story.


    I'm sorry perhaps I was unclear. I was looking for explanations. You, as well the previous posters have been very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to look over the cache. :)

  7. Cuddlefish with the way your cache page currently reads I think it would be acceptable. I think removing the entire last paragraph would be perfectly fine. Maybe the reviewer will be able to unarchive the cache now that you have made that change, so contact them.


    In the other cache you referenced I see no agenda. It gives facts on Joe and the CO's connection to Joe. The only line that I see in a gray area is "Great job to Joe, and to the exellent volunteers as well!".


    Oh I don't want mine reinstated. The reviewer and appeals told me they had to archive it, so there was nothing I could do there. I am just trying to get my head around what seems to be a double standard to me. So far this forum thread has helped me understand some of it, but I am still quite confused.

  8. Thank you for your reply Keystone. I don't mind my cache being archived. I had warning it would be done. I wanted an explanation why the political one is NOT an agenda. So far no one was been able to explain it. Can you explain why this political cache is not an agenda?

  9. Recently, I had a cache published at a public children's' hospital here in BC, Canada. Our medical system is different from that in the US and our hospitals are public, not unlike parks etc. I was asked to change the name of the cache to remove mention of the hospital and a line that read something like "find the cache and say thanks to the health professionals that work nearby". I changed them. Apparently paying tribute to the hospital or medical professionals is considered an agenda and in violation of the cache placement guidelines:

    Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose. Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable.


    No problem, I thought. Makes sense.


    This cache was recently published: http://coord.info/GC3K86Z It is called "Tribute to Joe Trasolini". The cache owner is a high school student. The cache is a tribute to a controversial politician who is by no means universally liked. I was very confused how my cache with one line regarding health professionals was disallowed and yet this cache which is completely political is allowed.


    Groundspeak won't explain why one is ok and the other is not.


    Perhaps there is someone here who can explain it to me? How is paying tribute to health professionals an agenda yet paying tribute to a current politician is not?


    Thanks guys.

  10. Remember digg.com? One day they made a whole bunch of changes to their site, most of which were specifically designed to increase interaction between users. The negative reaction was immediate and fierce. Users begged them to reconsider. They didn't. The users revolted and left. Within weeks digg was just a shell of what it once was. Please don't let that happen to geocaching.com.


    The most controversial issue is clearly challenges. In the feedback section, the admin Jeremy said if you don't like the activity, don't participate. The problem with that is by having a challenge count as a find it cheapens all finds and thus affects all users. Please, for the sake of geocaching.com, put challenges on another site, have them actually be location based, review them, and/or not let them count towards your number of finds. Any of these would be better than the mess that is out there now. Clearly, the loyal user is not happy with this change.


    I wrote to Groundspeak and got a standard reply. Basically it said if I don't like it, don't do challenges. That would be fine if a challenge was on par with a geocache. They seem like a completely different idea and for so many of them you don't need coords nor a GPSr. and what is worse, it counts towards your statistics. So there will be people with 1000s of "finds" who basically just took pics of themselves with frogs and dogs or something else. This is a different game and should not be lumped in together.


    Sad that they are refusing to listen also.

  11. I am looking to run an event focusing on puzzle solving concepts (it will not be a forum to actually solve puzzles or for people to provide solutions). I am expecting it to be an open forum/open dialog type of thing, with everyone contributing to the discussion. I just plan on being the facilitator/mediator.


    I put together a few slides (PDF file available here), and would like to get some feedback from the community. Please post any comments, criticisms, changes, additions, etc here.


    Thanks in advance!


    Awesome! I solved a puzzle after reading your presentation. Nice work. :blink:

  12. Remember when you just started geocaching? Even before you found your first 100 finds or so. What was the most frustrating thing about finding a geocache?


    I am going way back in the geocaching time machine to make a GeoSnippits video showing how to find a geocache as a complete noob. Where do you look? What do you look for? Where do you even know where and what to do? What frustrated us the most when we just started out geocaching.


    As always I go to the experts which is you.. Thanks in advance for all your thoughts and insights.


    Will let you know when the next GeoSnippits will be out... Will be soon.


    Thanks as always,


    -HHH :lol:


    Not enough time/daylight to get all the caches I wanted! :lol:

  13. Was Lance Armstrong "rude" for "hogging" all those Tours de France?


    You are comparing being the first to lift a lamp skirt to winning the Tour De France?


    Wow. Just Wow.




    Second to lift the skirt. The cache owner was first. :laughing:

  14. To respond to the OP:


    Somewhere along the line you’ve heard about FTFs, realized they are important to certain cachers, and decided you would like one. You’ve since realized they can be difficult to get, and you will have to devote a lot more effort to getting one. You may not realize it, but you are probably only aware of them BECAUSE they are difficult to get and require a lot of effort and therefore have importance to certain cachers. Why are they important to you? Why do you want one?


    I would love to have an Olympic gold medal but certainly would not expect the athletes to take it easy on me so that I could have one. Before anyone suggests you can’t compare gold medals to FTFs, it’s merely an analogy. A small percentage of people are willing and able to do what it takes to get a gold medal – same for FTFs.


    You seem to suggest that there is nothing in it for the families who can’t get an FTF. If merely finding a cache is not enough, and the FTF is your reward, then I’d suggest that you truly are an FTF hound who is just lazy. If you want an FTF go and earn one. If you’re not willing to earn it then I don’t understand why they are important to you.


    As for enjoying each others’ company, having fun, helping each other out – my days as an FTF hound contributed far more to this than the non-FTF caches. I met more people chasing an FTF than not. The camaraderie was much stronger amongst the FTF chasers.


    The FTF crowd never saw ourselves as greedy – we saw ourselves as a group of people interested in adding an element of competition by racing for FTFs. If someone else wanted an FTF they would certainly be welcome to race for them. If they expected to be given the FTF, we would have viewed this as an infringement on our fun – especially considering that the main reason they wanted an FTF was because it was something that was important to us.


    Nicely said! Now who else wants to join me out in the forest at the crack of dawn in their pyjamas? I got 4 FTFs one morning that way. :anitongue:


    I think some of you are taking the FTF sub-game way too seriously. Although Zapfrog may be experiencing a little FTF envy they also specifically mentioned families with small children. Would it really kill an FTF slave to refrain from going out at 3:00AM in search of a FTF on a cache if it meant providing a little extra joy to a four year old kid?


    My 5 year old wouldn't have the faintest idea if he was FTF or not on a cache. He just likes finding the caches. And he makes sure I give him full credit. I guess once he learns to read, I'll have to actually do that. :anitongue:

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