ironman114

It's not so much the cachers who take stuff apart that bug me but the ones who don't put the taken apart stuff back together. I am distressed quite often when I arrive at GZ and see things that were taken apart in an apparant scorched earth search. No, I can't prove it was cachers but, often, the evidence is overwhelming. I agree with bittsen (see I can find good in nearly everyone ) If you can't put it back together then you shouldn't be taking it apart.

Yep do some research instead of repeating what someone told you. People with an agenda purposely misrepresent or out right ignore the facts: Source: [url=http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/site/backyard_birds/myths Also: If you have an agenda don't make false claims do back up your views.

For your area I would try HERE: Many states and counties have online data for property ownership. There are various ways to search this info. A tax number is the easiest but addresses or street/road names work also. sometimes you have to get close then scroll across the map to get the parcel.

How do you know the land was private? Do you know who owns it? Did you get permission to trespass to hunt a geocache? There is a lot of state and federal land here. Major timber companies also own much of the land in the forested areas. They have given permission to recreate on their land Which includes hunting and geocaching. Also why do you assume he was a poacher???? If he had a legal license and was hunting during a legal season in an area that was open he wouldn't be a poacher. Webster definition of poacher: 1 : one that trespasses or steals 2 : one who kills or takes wild animals (as game or fish) illegally Kinda looks like if you didn't get permission to be on the land you fit the description.

Vartan84: Thank you for acknowledging mndvs737 "for an excellent explanation and post for helping us all understand the hobby and practices better." He would know better of the habits and customs of hunting whitetail than I would, though I have read much about them, because he lives where that species of deer lives. I said; Because you said: That seemed to me to be a statement made out of anger, not being able to hear tone inflection over the forum page. I may have viewed that statement different had I heard and seen you speak it. It may seem hash to you but you said: This does imply that you left the area not merely: I will say hiking satisfies my soul, hunting satisfies my belly and geocaching satisfies my desire to seek what has not been found. All three satisfy my need for exercise!!! Happy hunting (whatever it is you disire to hunt).

I understand there's a steak & lobster dinner riding on the finding a certain backpack. If the entire HOM crew were to simultaneously find it, we could bankrupt Boonie-Medic. The thought of finding it did cross my mind although I hadn't realized a dinner was riding on it. I understand one cacher has the coordinates for said pack. In that terrain 100' error could mean 2-300' difference in elevation. That and my gps said I was 60' south of the cache and then i was 180' north of it. Makes for a pretty big circle given the terrain.

Does your father hunt and live in Arizona?? Styles of hunting vary greatly depending on terrain, overhead canopy and amount of or lack of brush. Different species of deer have different habits also, making for different styles of hunting. Myself I couldn't stand in one place long enough to wait 7 hours. But what is the difference in standing in a tree or standing on the ground and waiting? Some around here drive around in pickups and never hit a trail or woods, just look over cleared areas. Not my style. To clarify I wasn't referring to the comment about standing in a tree not hunting to be the rude comments.

So the hunter was upset that after he had spent many hours waiting for a deer to come by you were in his space. It seems that you are angry that the hunter was in your space also. As a hunter and geocacher I would never curse anyone. I have been interupted by hikers while hunting and geocaching. That's life. They enjoy their recreation and I enjoy mine (I also hike while not hunt or geocaches.) I would be upset but not let it show. We all share this earth. But I wouldn't set up a treestand just 20 feet from some graves either. I would have more respect and set up further away from the cemetery. He was a jerk for venting the way he did. You were a jerk by going back "We decided a few minutes later to make another attempt at GZ, unfortunately I couldn't remember the clue to make it quick. We walked around for a couple minutes searching as quietly as we could, but the hunter was still up there in the tree cursing again." What did you expect him to do smile and give you a hug??? The hunter may have not deserved the deer you saw but then I would say you didn't deserve the cache either 1. For returning within a few minutes when you knew he had been there 7 hours. 2. For returning and looking for the cache while a non cacher was there watching you. You could have compromised the caches hiding place which could have led to its destruction. Some of the other cachers remarks in here seem rude to me also. bittsen I don't agree with your theory! Hunting and drinking DON'T go hand in hand. I and anyone I hunt with will never combine the two. Tit for Tat says people in big cities are morons and don't belong in the woods. AZcachemeister If I lived in AZ I wouldn't consider hiding up in a tree as hunting either judging by my experience in seeing your Saguaro National Forest: Oakenwood This says a lot about the residents of Maryland as a whole maybe?? I am glad we don't have so many people like that in my state that we have to restrict other peoples actions to keep them safe. Seems like a lot of folks here like to call others names. Webscouter I guess that I agree with Webscouter and should have heeded his advice before posting here. Sigh

Keep on eye on these threads for a chance to go on a group hunt/hike: Hike of the Month 2009 (HOTM) Alternative Hike of the Month (AHOTM) Off Week-Off Trail-Hike of the Month In winter they may or not be a snowshoe hike. You can rent them at REI for about $20.

Many of us are. But most don't come into the general forums. In fact the majority don't even go to the NW forum. I prefer hard to get to caches or winter hike caches.

You are right RWW. That was the cache and Criminal and I weren't the only one to look for the pack or the cache. We were just the first ones to find the cache. We didn't have correct information on the packs location. Now we do. A FTF is still available on finding and returning the pack though. My shins are still sore and itchy from the thorns. Marcus Aeralius was part of the SAR team trying to clear a ground evac route if needed. It took almost two weeks for the story to come out. He was hoisted into a helicopter around 11:00 pm. quote: "Barton said that even though Murphy was off marked trails, he was extremely prepared. “To his credit, he was well-equipped to be out there,” he said. “He was well-outfitted with lights, a full cell phone battery, materials to make a fire and the GPS. “ He was better prepared than that with timelines left with his wife and other survival gear. H eis lucky he had cell service. I had minimatext capabilities and Criminal had none much of the time. We did have a portable handheld ham radio with us. It was a 10 hour trip.

My dad was pretty certain that they were gone, as he's looked for them when he goes by that area while working, and he goes by pretty often. Wow thats just sad. Hopefully they didn't do the dishonorable thing and scrap them. I wonder who would know what they did with them!! Judging by the caption to the picture, I would say that they did.... Yep - that's what they did. Here's the response to my email: "The Snoqualmie Railroad Museum showed an interested in the cars, but because of budget and lack of staff they decided they would be interested in only pieces/section of the railcars. When the museum did not follow through, we contracted with a firm that abated and removed the cars from the site. They had to take the cars out in sections and I believe they recycled the metal." One man's trash is another man's treasure! Looks like this was considered trash. Down near Morton a whole town was moved when the Mossyrock dam was built and they flooded the valley. Parts of the old town foundations are above water level during low waters. It is against the law to remove "artifacts" from there even though all that remains are concrete rubble, broken glass and rusty metal bits. But whole train parts older than that town are scrapped! Fortunately for me I have a cache where it is too expensive and too hard an engineering feat to remove the wrecked 60 ton steam engine and the two passenger cars from the river canyon. It your's and my treasure!

I realized that I had mistaken the sunrise for sunset after I woke up the next day. Or was it the same day? I am having trouble keeping track of what day it is.

Great sunset photo. makes me REALLY wish I could have made it.

Yes, even the most beautiful high mountain lake isn't much fun when you're wet. The ten day forecast shows next weekend looking pretty good, so I may make it a three day weekend and go then. I won't get off work till 3 am Saturday next week. We worked 10 hour days this week so we could have a 4 day rain filled weekend. Good part is I slept in till after noon two mornings in a row!

You better dump at least 10# from that pack, it's a long way up the ridge! If you want, we can arrange a pre-hike meeting at the local tavern Thursday night to go over some equipment issues. We all don't need to carry redundant pieces (we don't need six water filters, etc.). Nevertheless, we're going to be up there for three days and two nights, anyone who drops out will have to camp by the river until we come back (if we come back). For anyone else interested, remember; packing light is packing right. Dump anything you don't absolutely need. If you decide to ignore my advice, I suppose you can cache it along the route on the way in, we'll be coming out the same way. I'm disappointed Hydnsek has opted out. It's not like there's any danger (we can't overcome). Sorry I can't make it Thursday. I am currently working in Seattle on a 5 pm to 3 am shift on the 62nd floor of the Municiple bldg. I don't work Friday however so I will get enough sleep for the Hike Saturday.

OhJoy is an avid cacher, a retired woman, likes to do and place lots of caches and may also be interested in helping someone new. Oh yeah, she lives in the Olympia area too!! She will know the good ones from the bad ones to help a newbie. She doesn't come to the forums so sending an email from her profile page may be the best way to contact her. There hundreds of caches within a few miles of Olympia. One of my favorites is "Legend of the Falls". Of course I am partial to this spot because it is a waterfall I took my wife to when we were dating over 30 years ago!! It is now several miles to walk there though. Ironman

I haven't figure out what plant it was yet. Hydnsek didn't know its name either.

I have one bruise on my knee from falling crossing a log at the lake. Both times I crossed it. One blister on right foot and sore ankle on left foot today.

We made it in and out alive and in one piece. Despite what others may tell ya'all the road in was very good shape and quite wide where they fixed the narrow spots near the top. Last year I only had 4" on each side of my tires for roadway. Met four others fishing there. Never have seen anyone there before. The cache was found, fish were caught and fun was had by all. The sun never did quite break through the low hanging clouds. Criminal and Hydnsek should have a few pics. Sad to say though, by the time we got back to civilization at 9:30 p.m. they had rolled up their sidewalks and pizza or burgers and beer were not available. Edit to add: At one point on the way in we all experienced a VERY strong maple syrup smell. I kept looking to see if someone on an overnight trip had broken a bottle. On the way out we all smelled it at the same exact spot. We did finally solve the puzzle though.

Currently there is some dichotomy is the the National Forest Service and in wilderness areas: It is perfectly acceptable to leave a container on a mountain peak of 2,000 feet or more in a wilderness area and call it a "PEAK REGISTER". But leave a container in the same wilderness on a peak and say it is a "log only" cache AND a peak register and it is not allowed by the NFS or GC.com! Why is it OK to leave a container and call it a Peak register but not a Geocache????? Both are objects left in the wilderness for the purpose of writing on a piece of paper to log your visit. One is acceptable and the other is not. I see this as being two faced on both agencies involved.

This is for tomorrow, Sunday the 23rd so there is no confusion

I am going to skip the annual Ironworkers picnic ( I have never made it anyway) next Saturday the 22nd to make this hike and campout. There is one geocache at Klone Lake. It hasn't been found in 2 years. But for those wanting more there are a number of them on or near Forest Service Rd. 22 on the way up or back down. The 22 road is under going construction to widen and pave it all the way to Lake Wynoochee but is open to the public by Friday night and weekends. It is 40+ miles from the Hwy 12 at Montesano, and takes about 60- 90 minutes. Disregard the instructions on getting to the cache in the cache page link for Klone Lake. I know of an easier way to get there. The hill is still steep but my route only has about 400' elevation change up and down a few times till you reach a saddle and drop down to the lake. Parking: N47°29.020 W123°34.368 I got a road report on the road condition near the parking coordinates and the road is open and widened this summer, so it is much safer. Last year debris and slides forced you to hug the rocks and your tires were less than a foot from the edge of 600' drops. My cache trip report: "Total elevation change along the ridge top is +200 and then –200 from parking coordinates. But it is very steep and there are about 6 places where some ropes are placed to help keep your feet from sliding down hill. There are some ribbons placed to help find the lake because there is NO TRAIL. The problem is these have been placed by several people over the years and don’t all follow the same route.( I think a few are placed by hunters leading to a kill and not the lake). If I had tried this with my kids when they were younger before I got a computer)I would surely have taken a wrong turn and traveled down the wrong ridge. From the ridge top it is a 650’ drop to the lake. It took 3 hrs, but that was with a snack break pic taking and getting various waypoints and such." This is an easily done as a day hike. I have made several day hikes in.

Sad to say prior commitments will keep me from this hike too.

OOOHHHHH!!!!!! A cache, a hike, and a tower to climb!! That is just up my alley!! I wish it was taller, 50' is kinda short. I like the 200-400 footers. Better view. I will have to try very hard to make this one!