nostra-dumass
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Posts posted by nostra-dumass
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Well I guess it's just beyond me why someone would hide a cache and not even ever want to know if it where found.
The type of person who practices saturation hiding, (what we call carpet bombing), lives by the motto that quantity trumps quality, every time. The caches they hide utilize crappy containers, in uninspired locations, with copy/paste cache pages. They know that the vast majority of the logs will read something like "TFTC". Any time spent reading countless "TFTCs" means less time for them to create more crappy caches.
Some people don't understand the 'true spirit of Geocaching'.
Some will argue that Dave put the first Geocache at a mundane location, and I'll bet he would agree...but it was an experiment and not the final iteration of the concept.
If you find a cache that needs owner maintenance, you should say so in the log.
If others have already mentioned issues but nothing has been done, then a NM is appropriate.
If there are several NM logs (or it has been months with no owner response), then a NA is called for.
If WE, as a community expect more, and demand it, we will get MORE.
The big question is: More of what?
More crappy unmaintained powertrail caches?
OR
More quality caches by owners who have an actual reason to have the cache there.
What do YOU want? Thirty smilies an hour, or one smilie and an experience worth remembering for more than three minutes?
The tools are there, we just need to have the stones to use them.
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This article was just passed around here at work and I found it interesting. I debated whether to post it here or in the GPS and Technology forum, but decided on here given its general relevance to geocaching.
Can a Smartphone Replace a Dedicated GPS?
TL;DR - The iPhone (4 and 4S tested in this study) is very accurate, but still not as accurate as a dedicated GPS. On average, the dedicated GPS units are about 5-6M more accurate.
Yes.
But not in every circumstance.
Lack of cell coverage may cripple a smartphone.
A smartphone is not particularly rugged, so taking one into the back country has it's risks.
Even so, a smartphone may bring a toolset and functionality a typical GPSr will likely never have.
Battery life is a major concern, but this can be overcome with solar chargers and models with user-replaceable batteries.
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I think after I buy a cell phone I shouldn't have to pay $30+ every month for the service. seriously $30+ every month; what is the carrier doing with all that money?
I want to sign up with your carrier...I'm paying $140/month.
A lot of that expense is so I can connect to Geocaching.com as needed.
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I envy the cachers with no greater issue of concern than visited logs on their trackables.
A wart on a flea's toenail.
Feel free to run around like your hair is on fire.
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To be certain, keep your own list.
Don't log any trackables until you have checked the list.
Edited to add:
If you are just logging 'Discovered' all over the place to rack up a big number, you are already compromising the system, which is to actually MOVE the trackables.
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You might possibly find it in the owned caches of other cachers in your area.
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There's also no reason why anyone should be helping others maintain their caches. If people want to help an active cacher that's a good thing to do but certainly not obligatory. If a cacher is inactive and their caches have fallen into disrepair nobody is helped by people keeping it artificially alive.
It gets a bit off-topic here, but let me comment on what I meant. Of course such help is not obligatory and I was not referring to maintaining caches with inactive owners.
In my country there exist quite a number of remote mountain caches at beautiful locations which are typically far off from the places where the cachers live. If minor maintenance issues are taken care of by those who happen to visit a cache anyway, this helps a lot and allows such caches to survive in the long run. While there is not obligation to help, I do see such help as a valuable contribution. I just wanted to point out that apart from hiding caches there are also other contributions that fit into your tool example better than paying money to Groundspeak.
Cezanne
That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying. I guess in the tool analogy such a person might be the guy who borrows a tool and maybe cleans it up and maintains it for the owner. The kind of guy who borrows the lawn mower, cleans it and sharpens the blade, then returns it in a better condition than he borrowed it.
Like it should go! Spoken like a neighbor I'd want!
And really, that's what the game "used to be". Caches were fewer in number, cachers were fewer in number, and there was a nice community effort to keep things on the level. The whole "trade up, trade even, or don't trade at all", "hide it as you found it" and other mantras for this game are all things that some (I'm using this word very, very deliberately) don't learn early in their careers.
When communities were smaller, it was easy to "mentor" cachers directly and indirectly. And, now that the game is growing at a clip, efforts to instill those mantras, the guidelines, and knowledge of the game isn't as easy to do. If someone is introduced to this game via stumbling upon the Geocaching App (let's be honest, they're looking for something of this sort..."stumbling" on this game in an App store isn't easy), they dont' know that this game is more than just staring at their device and finding places around town/on a hike.
When people download the App, they're at work or home, and likely not sitting on a beach or along a trail straddling their bicycle. When they look for caches around them, they are shown micros in an urban setting, and that game becomes their reality. Plus, they aren't going to know the scope of the community they just joined, and our mutual desire to have positive community ownership of the game. There's history, and existing tightly-knit community here, and new cachers need to be welcomed better into the game.
And this can mean being able to contact them with a verified email, and the rest of us getting motivated to reach out via email or events in our areas.
[/soapbox] Sorry about that...
WORD!
Both posts are right on.
The sense of community needs to be brought back ASAP.
Leaving n00bs to flounder on their own is not working.
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As it is, the site only allows two states of 'perceived finder quality'.
Excellent!
and
Not rated.
Everyone screams 'THERE WOULD BE ABUSE!'
Do you think there is not already 'abuse' by users favoring their friends caches, regardless of true quality?
Are there not users favoring caches merely because they got an FTF out of it?
I would not be in favor of an automated system to remove caches below a certain 'perceived finder quality', but I do think seekers deserve to know what the community thinks about a cache they might be considering going to find.
Groundspeak 'talks the talk' about 'focusing on quality', but they don't seem interested in 'walking the walk'.
These days, I doubt 'quality' even exists in their vocabulary.
But, it's OK...more caches for me to find!!
A lot of people think that a rating system could cause more abuse. Just because Groundspeak hasn't implemented a rating system doesn't automatically paint them as fiendish money grabbers who don't care about quality or geocaching.
Perception is reality.
Doing things to increase the overall quality of caches in general, and maintaining the cashflow are diametrically opposed goals.
I refer you to the 'Intro app' thread.
Providing an 'Intro app' that does nothing to instruct new users, but certainly has the option to upgrade to premium prominently placed.
I don't actually expect Groundspeak to do anything to improve the overall quality of caches.
I just want the tools to separate the wheat from the chaff.
And I want the option to decide what grade of wheat is acceptable for my flour.
The limitations of the favorite system does not make that possible.
So, they are just a listing service.
Getting more listings will satisfy more 'subscribers'.
Getting more people to subscribe is a good thing for them, regardless of their comprehension of the guidelines or any other details about the activity.
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Do you think there is not already 'abuse' by users favoring their friends caches?
No. Not really. For it to matter, you would need to have a butt load of friends willing to give a favorite point to a crappy cache. While there might be a handful of folks on the planet willing to do so, I've never heard of one.
Are there not users favoring caches merely because they got an FTF out of it?
Maybe? Again, I've never heard of such a thing, but I suppose, technically, it's possible? Assume for argument's sake that BillyBobNosePicker awards a favorite point to a cache he gets FTF on. If the cache sucks, that's probably the only point it will get, unless the owner is friends with the hypothetical folks mentioned above.
So, for it to matter, you would also need a butt-load of cachers to give a false negative rating to any particular cache. Yes?
And therefore, if BillyBob is mad at SallySue, his sole negative rating on her cache will be overwhelmed by the true ratings of others.
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Do you think there is not already 'abuse' by users favoring their friends caches, regardless of true quality?
Are there not users favoring caches merely because they got an FTF out of it?
Which is the worse abuse: friends teaming up to award favorite points (which I've never heard of happening; it's more one or two points for FTF or from friends), or friends teaming up to award crappy cache razzies?
I'd much rather have a positive-only system susceptible to "abuse" than one that can be abused with negative points - which definitely are more hurtful than abusive positive points.
EDIT: P.S. There is an extension you can add to your browser to rate caches. http://gcvote.com/index.php
In the same way that you would need a large number of compatriots to skew the favorites, you would need a large number of them to skew a full-on rating system negatively.
I have tried GCVote, not enough participants to be helpful
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As it is, the site only allows two states of 'perceived finder quality'.
Excellent!
and
Not rated.
Everyone screams 'THERE WOULD BE ABUSE!'
Do you think there is not already 'abuse' by users favoring their friends caches, regardless of true quality?
Are there not users favoring caches merely because they got an FTF out of it?
I would not be in favor of an automated system to remove caches below a certain 'perceived finder quality', but I do think seekers deserve to know what the community thinks about a cache they might be considering going to find.
Groundspeak 'talks the talk' about 'focusing on quality', but they don't seem interested in 'walking the walk'.
These days, I doubt 'quality' even exists in their vocabulary.
But, it's OK...more caches for me to find!!
A lot of people think that a rating system could cause more abuse. Just because Groundspeak hasn't implemented a rating system doesn't automatically paint them as fiendish money grabbers who don't care about quality or geocaching.
They don't.
They just want to sell memberships and apps.
After all, they are 'just a listing service'.
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As it is, the site only allows two states of 'perceived finder quality'.
Excellent!
and
Not rated.
Everyone screams 'THERE WOULD BE ABUSE!'
Do you think there is not already 'abuse' by users favoring their friends caches, regardless of true quality?
Are there not users favoring caches merely because they got an FTF out of it?
I would not be in favor of an automated system to remove caches below a certain 'perceived finder quality', but I do think seekers deserve to know what the community thinks about a cache they might be considering going to find.
Groundspeak 'talks the talk' about 'focusing on quality', but they don't seem interested in 'walking the walk'.
These days, I doubt 'quality' even exists in their vocabulary.
But, it's OK...more caches for me to find!!
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Another extreme cache placed for the amusement of the owner.
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Recently, I received an email from a local geocacher who told me that other geocachers have called me mean-spirited for only putting out hydrocaches. He said that because the vast majority of geocachers don't have a boat, it would appear as though I am only putting out hydrocaches because I know that many can't get to them. He also mentioned that there are geocachers that are big on finding all geocaches within a certain proximity, so it would definitely slight them.
I can tell you that is not the case at all, I just put hydrocaches out because I love being on the water.
I also plan on doing a hydrocacher meetup event, that will only be 100m away from shore, and I was also told doing so would slight non-hydrocachers because it would be so close to shore and that I would definitely look like a jerk because I could simply row to shore and let people without boats attend and log. I think that defeats the purpose of the event itself.
But anyway, I would just like to know other views on hydrocaches, as well as the event I mentioned. Specifically, from the perspective of those who do not own a boat.
If you also only find 'hydrocaches', then I'm on board with you.
I have a canoe, so I could probably attend your event.
If I didn't I would be on shore lobbing burning flares at your boat!
Holding your event 100M from shore not only makes you look like a jerk, it proves it.
Have your event well away from anywhere a shore-bound cacher could get to, thus making it worthwhile for your hydrocaching compatriots.
We have a local who only lists puzzles, yet he finds all cache types.
It's annoying.
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Ah. Hmm... Had four DNFs on one of my caches today. One cacher logged three DNFs. Neither cacher has found any caches. Neither has a 'validated e-mail address.' It has been found recently, and I'm certainly not going to check on it after hose four DNFs. But, hey! It's got four DNFs from two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing, and there's no way to contact them! Hope the reviewer does not mark it 'inactive'.
I would contact my reviewer and let them know my cachers are there, or better yet, post on my cache page that I checked my caches and they are still there. Contacting the two Intro APP users who have no idea what they are doing may only make them stick around longer.
Cache owners only need validated email addresses, if Groundspeak wants to have a cache mentoring program I'm sure they will get plenty of volunteers.
It is a pity neither of those two have validated contact info. They each logged a DNF. That alone puts them into the top 2 percentile of intro app users, and likely top 25 percentile of geocachers in general. These are the type of new hobbyists we need, as they seem to be playing by the rules.
Well there you go. That proves need for a geocache mentorship program where someone trained can point them in the right direction. Then a validated email would be required so a mentor could contact them. Geocache mentoring is not a new idea.
WOW!
Volunteer local mentors...just like volunteer local reviewers?
What a bizarre concept.
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Lord knows there are not enough caches.
Let's make it 100 feet.
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Why would we really need more geocachers?
Certainly we don't need more people running around causing issues with existing caches and grief for existing members.
The 'Introduction to Geocaching' app should have been an app that explains the basics of geocaching, not an app that provides NO information about the activity but allows 'crippleware' access to the database.
Groundspeak is a for-profit company, and as such they are mostly interested in making money by selling memberships and fully-functioning apps.
If 'a few' caches get wrecked in the process, it's not their concern...since they are 'only a listing service'.
They are gambling that the income from converted intro app users will exceed the loss from cheesed-off oldtimers who quit.
I would have made the same bet.
Much like the European price hike, not many are going to quit paying because of this issue.
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Maybe not a special cache type but an attribute?
Placing substandard containers and asking others to care for them? There is already a special cache type for that. Archived.
AMEN!
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I refuse to be a crappy cacher enabler.
If your good quality cache (decent container, interesting location) needs help due to circumstances unrelated to it's being crappy in the first place, I will help out.
Generally, I have the supplies with me, so I don't need to seek out a 'Maintenance tool box' cache to obtain them.
OTOH, I'm not going to help maintain your series/powertrail because you can't/won't do it yourself.
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On the other foot...
15. (or whatever) Report (to your local reviewer) every cache you find that may be a violation of the guidelines.
Get involved! Take pictures and send them to the reviewer.
Nobody (well very few perhaps) wants to be the cache police.
But, do YOU want to be confronted by an angry property owner or security because someone else was afraid to speak up?
Do you want land managers to ban Geocaching on their lands because someone (YOU!) was afraid to speak up?
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There are quite a few things to cover in this release
* View corrected coordinates you’ve saved online in map mode
So, if I view a cache via the app when the app is in map mode, the location displayed will be the 'user updated co-ordinates' I enter on the website?
What if I try to navigate to that cache?
* Preview your Pocket Queries before downloading
OK
* Fixed the bug when downloading GPX files from an SD card
Terminology confusion, but I get the idea. I can now load from an SD card, but it wouldn't be a 'download'.
* Polish language support
The Polish Geocaching revolt is averted!
* Achieve geocaching superstar status by upgrading to Geocaching Premium within the app
Suck more money from unsuspecting smartphone users!!!
Nice!
Well, I suppose more and more people are using their smartphones as their sole internet device and have no computer.
Couldn't they just use the web browser on the phone?
* Typical bug fixes and app updates
What, pray tell, are 'Typical bug fixes and app updates'?
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There are quite a few things to cover in this release
* View corrected coordinates you've saved online in map mode
* Preview your Pocket Queries before downloading
* Fixed the bug when downloading GPX files from an SD card
* Polish language support
* Achieve geocaching superstar status by upgrading to Geocaching Premium within the app
* Typical bug fixes and app updates
WAIT! I can't be a geocaching superstar just because I don't have the app?
And it's too late now, since you're already PM.
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Perhaps they were having trouble finding a cache they felt was secure enough to put YOUR property in?
Perhaps all those 200+ caches were nano caches incapable of holding your TB?
It's a miracle your TB wasn't lost when a cache was destroyed/taken/archived.
Be grateful it is still moving.
To answer the questions, no and no. It weren't all unsafe caches and it weren't all nano's those hundreds of caches. But even if they were, I still don't need an automatic visit log for every cache they have visited. No story to tell, no photos made, why (supposedly) take it even along on a cache trail with only nano caches? Also no note that he wasn't able to drop the trackable because he couldn't find caches big enough or safe enough. At least one of the many visit logs could have had that information don't you think?
And I wish I can say it is a miracle the TB wasn't lost when a cache was destroyed/taken/archived, but when the TB doesn't really visit caches, it can't even risk getting destroyed/taken/archived at all. It could just have stayed on my table back at home, then it doesn't get shared with other cachers either, it won't collect stories and it won't show any nice photos.
No instead this particular trackable that resulted in me starting this topic (although it happened to other trackables as well) had a special story attached I like to share:
It was dropped in Iceland by a friend of mine and it was supposed to travel there. One day I was going to pick it up there and visit all the places it had visited.
Then a cacher from Canada took it back home. He send me an e-mail apologizing and offered to send it to a friend of his in Iceland.
A very nice e-mail, clearly someone who understands the game of moving trackables. I noticed he lived in Quebec and I asked him not to send it by regular mail to Iceland, but to drop it in/near Montreal.
A few months later I was going there for a week, so I would be able to pick it up myself. And so we did, just the adventure alone of picking up our own trackable was great.
Then we decided the trackable should go back to Iceland, so we went there a couple of months later and dropped it in a cache.
The next couple of cachers retrieved and dropped it in caches around Iceland, some made photos. I really enjoyed seeing some logs, since I had visited Iceland now and recognized a few places. Some discovered the trackable because they weren't sure they would be able to drop it in Iceland before they would leave, but did place a photo.
Then there was a log of someone who said the trackable joined him on his trip in Iceland for a couple of days and he had taken tons of pictures which he would upload after his vacation.
But this person never uploaded his photos unfortunately, probably because the next cacher grabbed the trackable instead of waiting for a drop log, because "he only stayed a few days in Iceland" he had to grab it.... This cacher didn't place any stories, no photos, just empty visit logs and 3 days later the trackable was in Austria...
Three months of empty visit logs followed, so hundreds a blank logs and then finally it got "dropped" in an event cache.
Some cachers at the event are discovering the trackable, but I think they haven't seen it. Even the guy who dropped it there himself posted a discover log! So probably only the TB number was dropped on a list. Together with the other TB numbers he and his friend had collected. My trackable wasn't the only victim of his endless took it to and not really visiting caches-activity, as I noticed after doing some research on the other trackables "in" the event.
So it isn't "a miracle your TB wasn't lost when a cache was destroyed/taken/archived."
I rather had my trackable get lost in a cache in Iceland then the tons of meaningless logs I deleted.
I rather had my trackable in an archived cache in Iceland then (on a list) in Austria.
Just one log with a nice story and a photo on my trackable per year would have meant more to me than 5000 took it to logs in year without any story.
I hope your trackables are clearly marked with your username, so I can leave them where I find them.
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I have experienced it with one of my own Trackables that somebody had it and "took it too" (200+) caches for months. Without dropping the thing. Basicly they track there own journey. Also I feel that many "took it too" logs are made without the Trackable visiting the Cache in real life. Ofcourse some will realy be "visited". But to me it is much more fun to see 15 Geocachers who move my Trackable in 1 year. Then 1 Geocachers who keeps the Trackable for months, that way also other Geocachers can't see the Trackable in real life.
Perhaps they were having trouble finding a cache they felt was secure enough to put YOUR property in?
Perhaps all those 200+ caches were nano caches incapable of holding your TB?
It's a miracle your TB wasn't lost when a cache was destroyed/taken/archived.
Be grateful it is still moving.
Post a recent picture of yourself geocaching.
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Me.
In a coal mine.
At night.
The batteries in the torch failed.