NorStar

I'm noticing a whole new crop of people in the Boston area. Last year, there were maybe a handful of people who were benchmarking in the area. In the gallery, today, I noticed two new names I hadn't seen before and over the past couple of months there have been several more. So, I think that its picking up here. Welcome, all!

I also don't limit myself on the type to find, but I especially like any benchmark attached to a historical structure or place, and any vertically mounted disk (the first one found was a vertically mounted disk).

MY0283, ENTRANCE in Seabrook, NH. The disk is in the lower-center of the picture. http://img.Groundspeak.com/benchmark/lg/e1...a6e7de794fc.jpg MY5214, SALISBURY MARSH MONUMENT. This one is a bolt, surrounded by this concrete monument. http://img.Groundspeak.com/benchmark/lg/67...9cc0e775254.jpg

I had assumed that the oldest marks would have a low number or letter combination for a PID. I guess the current scheme, AA0000, is relatively new? Any history on how PIDs get assigned?

I would like the description first, then the logs, like the cache pages. Thus, I can decide whether to print just the description or everything. 99% of the time, this isn't a problem, but as the sport seems to be getting more popular, some of the marks will build a long log list (somehow the 'paperless' benchmarking idea isn't working too well for me. For one thing, its less convenient to scroll through all that text on a PDA). I second the link to the NGS, or have it grab an updated datasheet annually or other regular period. Right now, I ignore the geocaching stored one and go right to the NGS source. I wish the link to the Mark Recovery Page was back on the main benchmarking page, but I can understand why it isn't. The earlier sample datasheet has some good points. I didn't see geocaching logs in it, though, which are distinctly different from the NGS logs, and would propose that the GC ones would go at the end. As a last note, I want to add that efforts should be put into eliminating problems that don't pull out descriptive data from the NGS datasheets. I have come across so many geocaching datasheets that have "No Descriptive Text Available" in them that have descriptive text in the datasheets pulled from NGS.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0523/p11s01-ussc.html The article talks about how security concerns have led to an increase in security and law enforcement accosting individuals taking pictures of anything public, including subways, potholes, and school buildings. It also lays out some guidelines on what is legal and what is not legal (generally, as long as you are not trying to look IN or THROUGH a building, you can take any pictures from a public area).

I'll provide my angle on the history part. While geocaches can have a historical theme to them, they are mostly trying to tell the story of the history of the spot or area that they are located, which is great in its own right. Benchmarks are often set in or are referencing an object or location that is historically significant. Here in New England (mostly eastern Mass.), there are a lot of both the (vertical and horizontal) controls (disks, rods, chiseled squares) and the landmarks (mostly intersection stations like church spires). So, a mark could be part of an old church, for instance, the church spire of the Old Ship Church in Hingham, the oldest structure used continuously as a church. Or, a mark could be a chiseled square at one of the dry docks of the old Charlestown Navy Yard (which has been closed as a navy yard - part reopened as a national historic park and part has been developed for other uses). The descriptions, in most cases, are fairly short, and don't go into the history, itself. The descriptions are meant to capture the current state of the mark at the time of observation, and may briefly reference, for instance, 'the naval shipyard.' Thus, you may not recognize the history unless you do a little research of the area. For me, I'm especially happy to find industrial references. Often, they are cupolas, chimneys or stacks, or water towers on the property. I'm happy to find places that still exist, even if the company has long since disappeared, but I'm also satisfied to find where a place has been where no trace remains. Other marks located town or city boundaries, which may not be the present corners, along railroad right of ways that haven't had tracks in decades, or even the chimney of a house where some local historical figure lived. And this is another reason why I benchmark and report findings to NGS. Here, especially around Boston, the area has changed significantly in the last few years. Some marks, I can tell, have been destroyed or altered in the last decade, and I know a few of the ones that I have found have already been altered or are threatened with destruction (I've been doing this for only a year and some). So, by making these reports, and having someone come by and make observations at that time, we are actually making a historical record of our own. Some marks found as examples: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=MY3289 - NECCO Factory Water Tower (now occupied by Novartis). http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=LX5950 - Gillettes Tower - House of an actor who was famous for his on stage performances of Sherlock Holmes http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=MY3266 - Walter Baker Chocolate Factory Stack (the factory building is now mostly housing) http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=MY3037 - Disk on Pier 5 in the former Charlestown Navy Yard (now threatened because of development plans). http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=MY3217 - Monument at Castle Island about the building of clipper ships in Boston Harbor http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=MY4562 - Disk set in Ft. Warren on Georges Island. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=OC1656 - Portland Observatory - historical structure related to the sailing days. http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=PG0197 - Disk set within an old railroad right of way that has since been abandoned and no track remains. Summing it up, you may need to do some extra research to find the historical significance. But, the mark was made there for a reason and may be the lasting evidence that something (ex. factory, military establishment, railroad) was there, and, from observations of the mark over time, we see how the location has changed over time.

http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/default.asp?pgi...ndex2&sid=info2 It took me some time to find this link, about 4 months ago, but through entering creative search word combinations in Google, I finally located it. This is a page, from the link - Doing Business With Us - on MassHigway's main site, has a link under Survey and Layout Information- Geodetic Control and Layout Plans. This link takes you to another site with a viewer, with the same title, that allows you to search on horizontal control markers, vertical control markers, and town-city corners. NGS markers are listed in there as well as state controlled markers. The direct link to the viewer is here: http://66.105.109.53/ With some playing around, you should be able to learn how to use it. For other states, counties and other entities (including Disney), a list has been compiled - http://surveymarks.planetzhanna.com/links.shtml by Zhanna. Its pretty comprehensive! About the picture - I just looked at the properties of the picture - its only 19K. I think that it is a tribute as much to the quality of digital cameras, today, and the skill of the photographer! N/S

Inching close to 250 finds, myself in about the same period of time, this means that I am going at half your pace. How do you do it???!!! Congrats! I hope to make it back to the southern Penn. area some day and find some of the marks you have found! NorStar

I had a similar encounter on the 16th. I recovered benchmark MY6161 that had the street intersection description for the right church (Methodist Church), but the coordinates led to another church (the Federated Church - Congregational and Baptist) at least a quarter mile away. The methodist church has a more prominent spire, so I believe that this is the correct mark. My guess is that the person first observing the mark took coordinates off a map for the other church, not confirming the road intersection.

Now that the snow has finally melted away (after about 5 weeks of snow on the ground replenished every few days), and since I was in the area for another event, I decided that I would tackle a series of benchmarks along Route 9, many of which are designated in the wrong county. Two of them were less than 100 feet of the county line, so I wanted to make sure with actual observations. Here is what I reported to the NGS: MY2085, G37, was Suffolk County, should be Middlesex County (the line is about 50 ft east and south of the mark). MY2086, H37, was Suffolk County, should be Middlesex County MY2087, J37, was Suffolk County, should be Middlesex County MY2088, K37, was Suffolk County, should be Norfolk County In addition, MY2083, D37, listed in Suffolk County, is nearly on the line. It lies on the northeast end of the bridge, which is on the Suffolk side of the brook (called the Muddy River), which from the maps I see is the line (I wouldn't be surprised if that was how Brookline was named). Thus, I have determined that it should be left as Suffolk. The actual locations plotted are all good to within 100 feet, so changes aren't needed there. That's four to the count of marks submitted. I sent these on to NGS, along with topographical map images showing each bm plotted as a waypoint.

I just read about this project in one of ESRI's newspapers (a little big to be called a newsletter). It's a very interesting article that explains how height is measured between marks and even gives reasons why keeping tabs on these survey disks is so important. I was so inspired to continue benchmarking after that. Here is the online version: http://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/winter040...e-accurate.html. Pay would be nice, but not my principal driving force. Acknowledgement for the efforts at the local level would be nice. Too bad Massachusetts isn't on the list. Would Wisconsin be willing to fly me there?

And just to add to the confusion - I have come across all sorts of markers in the NGS database, including some city-town borders and city lot markers. Some delineate not the current boundaries but some former boundary, for instance between municipalities before they traded land or one ceceded from another. But not all the city markers are in the database. I am targeting some town boundary markers to investigate when the snow goes away. Good one, mloser, I needed a laugh, this morning.

I think there is a bug in the benchmark gallery, now. There have been several posts with a date that is way off. An example is the latest post (as of 8:30 am) for "New York 046.jpg." It is listed for 1/1/2003. I followed the link to the datasheet, for "Empire State Building," PID KU3602. It was posted by Tomsle, and he posted on 2/28/2005. I scrolled down the whole list of posts (one of the few that has over a dozen postings) and saw no entry that has 1/1/2003. I had seen this, before. Here is a list of ones in the current gallery that are showing similiar behavior: Page 7: A series of water tank pictures - Arnett Municipal Water Tank, GJ0706, poasted byOSU brigadier on 2/28/2005 (actually, it seems like a whole series of pictures from the same person). Page 17-18: A series of pictures by SRD525 that had a date of 5/31/2001 but were posted on 2/26/2005: Pembroke Unitarian Church -MY4177; Hansen Corner 14 1889-MY4290; Jones, MY4151; and others. PAge 20: A series of pictures by Swatunit that had a date of 3/28/2003 by was posted on 02/26/2005. And more. I only name names to get at a pattern in a perceived problem - not to pick on anyone. The dates don't appear related to anything posted by benchmarkers or in the datasheet descriptions. Is it somehow related to how the visit is logged, or is it something else?

I timed my trip right, as well. I hunted benchmarks and a geocache on Sunday in the Boston area, and was treated to a wonderful day that was also one of the most successful ones as coastal Massachusetts goes. By the end of the day, the leading edge of that storm covered the sky, and 4 inches of new snow fell on Monday, then a dusting on Tuesday, as well. Forecasts are iffy for this weekend, so it might be until March before I make it out, again.

For the record, MY3322 is located in Needham, which is part of Norfolk County, which is the right county for that station. MY3324 is located just across the river, in Newton, which is in Middlesex County, the same county as Waltham. So, no change is needed. But, going back to my original question, its now a shame that the title can't be changed, because it leads to the very confusion that we just encountered (there is currently a listing that has a city referenced that is in another county). My word of caution to anyone doing this kind of reporting is to check where the county borders are and make sure that the station is in the county you claim it to be in. It is especially challenging in these northeastern parts where the county borders rarely have square corners or lines that are e-w or n-s. I think, though, that this is a worthwhile effort, though, and have looked into other possible errors. I just reloaded all the points into Map Point for Massachusetts directly from the NGS files, which are created by county. Each county set is colored differently. And, behold, there are a lot of stations, especially designated in Suffolk County (essentially Boston) that are in other counties. I even see a string of datapoints from Bristol County that are well into Rhode Island. So, I'll explore these, and give you a list from time to time of those that I have found.

This thread was dropping too far back, and there aren't enough ocean scenes represented, so I'll submit one of mine. This one is on top of Ft. Warren on Georges Island, one of the Boston Harbor Islands. In the far background is Boston Light, a landmark type benchmark. http://img.Groundspeak.com/benchmark/lg/43...190138d8fd1.jpg As an added bonus, this one is in front of Plainmont Cemetary, east of Barry, VT. The benchmark is in the shaded oval (it doesn't quite fit the requirements, but I liked the photo enough to include it).

Are you collecting PID Names that have the wrong town or city listed? I have a few way. For instance, one says something like "Waltham WHDH TV Tower Mast" when it is actually in Needham, about two towns south of Waltham. It is listed in the right county and it has the right lat/long. Most of these stations with wrong municipalities listed (in this area, there is no real county territory) have a comment in the description, but, after several years, nothing has changed. Is it worth listing these items, or are you more interested in more serious errors about the actual plotted location?

I'm one of those who visits the forum about every other week, and post maybe once a month. This, obviously has been a hot topic, and wanted to put in a few personal points. First, I am elated at the attempt for the NGS to reach out more to the GC community. It gives me, personally, a sense that my efforts to report on the NGS Mark Recovery Page, are more than appreciated. Second, there are a few reasons why I decided to spend the extra hours to report to the NGS site: 1) because I am one of those people who like volunteering (just can't seem to help it); 2) submitting to NGS information that I already am collecting makes sense and gets used by multiple groups; 3) because there appears to be a need for a careful observer to record the present status of these marks. If stations were regularly visited - say every 5 to 10 years, I probably wouldn't bother to post. But, I have reported marks Found/Not Found/Poor that haven't been visited for decades (I think the record stands at about 70 years) and some not since they have been monumented. If you have been to the Boston-Cambridgee area, lately, you may have noticed the massive new construction that has happened even in the last 10 years. I have reported marks that have been destroyed within this time, and, if the NGS is still interested in knowing the status of church spires, chimney stacks, and the assortment of other landmarks as well as disks, then I'm glad to have contributed to their knowledge. Third, as I alluded to in my opening sentence, I am not a frequent reader of forums, and even a less frequent poster. That being said, I might still see the NGS forum as a valuable tool for us 'more serious' benchmarkers. Another way would be to know that we can email our questions, directly, if we keep our emails to a 'managable level.' Now that I have finally caught up in my reporting (especially since I am not as actively looking for benchmarks - due to about 3 feet of snow on the ground), I am going to look back to the questionable ones I have encountered. Again, I could see either a forum or an email answering questions on whether 'such and such observed' was a benchmark. Also, a web page targeted to the volunteer benchmarker that explains the general concepts of benchmarking and provides a good tutorial on how to recover for the NGS would be very helpful. I know that there are pages out there, already, but they are often not for the gc group. A good example is how we should submit pictures - this generated a long thread on that subject. That was good, but it was hard to scan to find answer a specific question that I had. If the ideas generated in that thread and others were periodically updated to a set web page (hosted by either gc or NGS), then I think that could be a useful alternative to a pinned thread. Some other questions that I have that could be in this forum include - would the NGS be interested in landscape images from a particular benchmark (such as from a tower), showing other benchmarks visible? - are websites acceptible in recovery posts if they document a change in a benchmark (such as rennovations to change a church to a theater)? - Is it OK (or necessary) to refer to gc datasheet for additional information/photos? Fourth, I am not opposed to a 'Volunteer' badge. I have been accosted by security once for benchmarking, and, though I have a couple reasons for why I do this, it might have helped to have some sort of identification related to NGS (All went well - I drew attention to myself when I the digital camera flash went off when I was taking pictures of a disk at twilight). But, like other 'quirky' hobbies, like trainspotting, we will have to accept the fact that we live in suspicious times, and may be asked to justify our interest in a particular place. It would help if we could at least point the security to someone at NGS that we were part of a 'Volunteer Corps' (again - I would propose this to be a volunteer effort that is not required to post recoveries to the NGS). I've said far more than I planned, and yet could say more, but not now. Hope this helps.

Congrats! I posted my 100th find on July 10th, with almost 200 posts, plus some benchmarks that aren't on the list to round it out to about 200, as well! This was done in about 6 months. For me, it was relatively easy to get to this number, since I work and live near Boston, which had many parts densely populated with benchmarks, many unexplored. But, a lot of effort went into searching, since so many benchmarks have been removed (recovery rate is about 50%). I've been taking a little break from benchmarking, partly because the DNC is in town (I don't want to try to explain to any security about a digital camera, a GPS, a Palm Pilot, and why would I want to be taking pictures of benchmarks around the city, especially near the harbor), and partly because it took trying to find at least 20 benchmarks to get the last 7. But, the reward for my efforts is that I was first to find 34 benchmarks. The next 100 will probably not have as many first finds.

I love it as a way to 'browse' benchmark and cache locations and plan trips. It is more clear to me, sometimes to see them laid out on a map than to look through a list on gc.com generated based on a zipcode or a benchmark/cache. I installed that plugin, but, after a day, it crashed on me, and I haven't been able to use it since. It might require just a little more memory than my computer can supply, at the moment.

This applies more to benchmarkers than geocachers, though both groups should be more aware when searching near public transportation infrastructure. This link is to a TIME article (May 24, 2004), entitled "Hobbyist or Terrorist." http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...-638410,00.html Though this applies to "Train Chasers," it applies to anyone who is 'acting suspiciously.' What is more disturbing, is that just because you are in a public area, such as a sidewalk on a major street, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take pictures of transportation property. Thus, if you are looking for benchmarks, NGS or disks, be prepared to talk about geocaching (bring a couple printouts of the benchmark pages). Also, DON'T TRESPASS. I also recommend shooting places like power plant chimneys from a distance.

On today's Boston.com, there is a slide show of a trip to Europe that Keegan Sands took. The title is called "Having a Ball in Europe." Each photograph has a picture of a ball with a smiley face, like this one: Though it isn't related, it reminded me of taking pictures of Travel Bugs at various places. -N/S

I don't think you will have any argument about why this person left nothing! I was browsing nearby caches when I saw this recent entry in one of them: "Yuck! Someone thought this location would be a good depository for their canine's excrement. Fear not, the cache is intact and not defiled, I just had to remove a bag of the aforementioned to reach the cache. Lookout for land mines of the canine type too, my left foot managed to find one of those too. I suspect there is a single resident of the neighborhood who is delinquent in his social responsibilities. The log (no pun intended) is nearly full, so if you're going, bring a sheet for this micro. Took the dog poop. Left nothing." I think he deserves a medal for "actions beyond the call of duty!"

If you are in the eastern Massachusetts area, try http://www.bluehill.org. It is the Blue Hill Observatory, sitting on top of Blue Hill, just south of Boston. They have a section where they archive their daily weather observations. You can go back years, if you want! They also have monthly and seasonal articles on weather trends posted on the front page.