NorStar

Reminds me of a museum nearby me - it resides in the basement of a community theater. http://www.museumofbadart.org/ Maybe if there is a sub category of 'Shrines for Lame Things' I can list it! Of course, that might be odd enough that it might be acceptable to the waymark judges, then it would be unacceptable in this one - what a dilemma!

Thumbs Up! Would standing stones include mileposts, or is that too far off-topic? There are many old ones along the eastern coast that were part of 'post roads' between major cities.

I think that you will have more waymarks added than visited, for a while, then it might even out. I think that the 'newness' factor applies. It's more fun to be 'the first one there' than to 'follow in some one's foot path.' I've seen this in the benchmarking area where people said that they went for ones that haven't been visited before and literally went by ones that have been visited. I, myself have had a preference to go for ones that had not been visited, but now that there are fewer of these kinds of sites (plus my person time has shifted) I have visited more of the marks that have been visited before. In the Boston area, I see a few that are close by, but only one that I plan to visit. I also plan to place a waymark soon.

Every time I read this post I get something else out of it. There is so much information. So, forgive me if I am still covering something here that is discussed elsewhere. My question is looking ahead at handling growth of a category. Let's say the initial category is 'Railroad Locomotives on Display.' After a year, there might be 100 waymarks and it looks like the rate of entering waymarks is steady. You might decide that you want to split the category to 'steam' and 'diesel' locomotives. Can you split up a category once it has been established or are we 'stuck' with the category as initially established? If a category can be split, how do you split it up? I suppose that you, as the category manager, would ask Groundspeak to change the taxonomy to have a branch (folder) called 'Locomotives', then two categories that hold waymarks: 'Diesel Locomotives' and 'Steam Locomotives.' Then, I guess the category manager would have to decide which waymark goes to which category. Would the category manager do it or would that manager tell Groundspeak which waypoint would go to which category? Another option would be to archive the 'Locomotive' Category and put 'Diesel Locomotive' and Steam Locomotive' in its place, then the category manager might try to recreate the waypoints in each category. This wouldn't work if there are visits and photos attached. My concern arose from making several suggestions to establish subcategories under categories that I thought were going to be rather large. But, it might take years to fill in each of those categories and the structure would be cumbersome and unnecessary, initially.

Thumbs Up! To make this manageable, several subcategories are probably needed. - Generals - Musicians - Artists - Performers - Presidents - Innovators and Inventors

Thumbs up, especially if this category is subdivided, probably by religious institute (plus a separate one for non-denominiational religious waymarks). A discussion started in another thread about mormon sites. thinking out loud on subcategories - I would vote that these places would have to either be permanently used for religious purposes (excluding sports stadiums, for example, but including places like Cathedral of the Pines in New Hampshire), or have a historical marker explaining its 'religious significance.' Possible subcategories: - Religious buildings - Sites of important religious events (thinking of things like a founding of a denomination, largest service) - Religious structures turned into something else (lots of this happening in the Boston area) - must still be recognizable as once being a church/temple/meeting house/etc. - Museums on this theme (is there a way to cross-reference waymarks so that you could have the same list appear under 'Museums'?). - Shaker Villages - Some are museums, some are just locations. Had trouble with categories that are less tangible, such as 'reported miracles/healings' since it isn't exactly a place where you are going to see that miracle, plus it would be hard for the person managing this category to substantiate claims. Perhaps only if there is an historical marker there. Like I said, just thinking out loud!

Thumbs up, especially if someone can relate a story about it. There are so many tales of heroism in the face of terrible storms. The National Park Service has a website listing of lighthouses, but there isn't a downloadable waymark list. This waymark list would be a nice complement to the NPS directory. NPS site: http://www.cr.nps.gov/maritime/ltsum.htm

Two thumbs up!! There are plenty of good places around Boston. One of my favorites is in a bowling alley! I would hope that a sub-category is devoted to the farmstand/mom-and-pop variety of good quality ice cream shops, separated from the franchise operations. Those are the ones that, to me, would be worth turning off the beaten path for.

There was a category in the locationless cache for Ohio Bicentennial Markers. I would like to see an expanded category for historical road signs. Sub-categories: - State special series (ex. Massachusetts Bay Tercentennary Historical Committee - ca 1930 - many of these are still up or have been replaced). - Local signs - U.S. Bicentennial Signs - Odd history signs - Dubious history signs (history claims that are either doubtful or inflated) Some of these could still end up rather large (U.S. Bicentennial Signs comes to mind). I would put a restriction that some kind of proof that you didn't use vacation pictures (ex. GPS, compass,) would be appropriate.

I had originally posted this in the wrong spot. With a little altering, here it is in this thread: Right now, I'm leaning toward having the main benchmarking activities on another site (ex. www.benchmark.com, if that isn't taken). My reasons: - Fundamentally, it's a different activity. Waypoints are about finding and logging a place according to a theme where the time the waypoint is observed is not that important. Benchmarking is about recovering and logging an observation of a waypoint at that moment in time. - There are currently 68,117 benchmarks recovered (GC stat 08-25). I'm still unclear how wm could handle this number in a well organized manner without extensive directory trees. - Then there are the 736,425 NGS benchmarks in GC, which makes designing directory trees even harder. - The benchmarking datasheets should be updated 'periodically' from NGS. If it is incorporated into wm, would updating be even harder? Now, having said these points, I think that the waypoint site has a large potential in adding to the benchmarking activities. Possible categories: - Benchmarks in ____ state not in the NGS database - Interesting state border markers (whether they are NGS listed or not) - Unusually named benchmarks - Town/city hall benchmarks (these would by NGS only, though there would be overlap if there was a wm category for town and city halls) - Benchmarks in Poor Condition - Favorite Benchmarks - Benchmarks on Mountain Peaks - Moved (therefore destroyed) Benchmarks - Vertically Mounted Benchmarks. - Examples of each type of benchmark (ex. intersection station, survey disk, driven rod, drill hole) - Examples of each organization that has a benchmark listed in NGS, like the list being developed in the benchmarking forum, could be done here. A lot of potential that way. As an added plea - wherever the benchmarking site goes or how the waypoint develops, I would really like to have a common profile to manage, have my stats, etc., and have an easy way to move from one to another. I often use cache sites to find benchmarks and vice versa. I might do the same with waymarks, but since the idea is to find and make a waymark, I'm less likely to do that. Forums, too, should at least have links to the other forums, or, like benchmarking in geocaching, they're top-level topics.

Thanks - will do - I just realized that I posted under the suggested topic and not the other.

OK, I'll start the debate, then. Right now, I'm leaning toward having the main benchmarking activities on another site (ex. www.benchmark.com, if that isn't taken). My reasons: - Fundamentally, it's a different activity. Waypoints are about finding and logging a place according to a theme where the time the waypoint is observed is not that important. Benchmarking is about recovering and logging an observation of a waypoint at that moment in time. - There are currently over 68,000 benchmarks recovered. I'm still unclear how wm could handle this number in a well organized manner without extensive directory trees. - The benchmarking datasheets should be updated 'periodically' from NGS. If it is incorporated into wm, would updating be even harder? Now, having said these points, I think that the waypoint site has a large potential in adding to the benchmarking activities. Possible categories: - Benchmarks in ____ state not in the NGS database - Interesting state border markers (whether they are NGS listed or not) - Unusually named benchmarks - Town/city hall benchmarks (these would by NGS only, though there would be overlap if there was a wm category for town and city halls) - Benchmarks in Poor Condition - Favorite Benchmarks - Benchmarks on Mountain Peaks - Moved (therefore destroyed) Benchmarks - Vertically Mounted Benchmarks. - Examples of each type of benchmark (ex. intersection station, survey disk, driven rod, drill hole) - Examples of each organization that has a benchmark listed in NGS, like the list being developed in the benchmarking forum, could be done here. A lot of potential that way. Any one else want to weigh in?

Only caution is to warn people to list only sites/digs that have been made known to the public and invite visits (or is covered over, again). There are too many poachers out there who could ruin a site where active research is being done.

My five cents worth: I think the idea is that people should be setting up these categories with the idea that this is a list that would not be easy to obtain elsewhere and the waymarks contained in it are something 'out of the ordinary.' For example, if you are such a Starbucks fan, you can go to their website and find the nearest Starbucks to you. Often these are plotted on mapping tools, and if they aren't now, they will be in car navigation systems (yet another avenue for advertising). However, a list of 'Fast Food Firsts' where you are finding and recording the location of the first Starbucks store, or the first Dunkin' Donuts store (an eastern states brand of the same kind of store) might be interesting and isn't easy to obtain elsewhere. Another five cents: I can see potential for an occasional contest, for instance scavenger hunts. The category might have a theme of items to find, geolocate, take a picture and submit within a certain period of time (this may require an 'archiving' feature such as that used in geocaches). For instance, a 'fish' themed scavenger hunt might list the following: a fish in a picture; a fish-and-bait shop or sporting equipment store; a pond with fish in it; and a place where people often go to fish. I would see the contestants creating their own sub categories under the main one to list their finds. - Would I do this? I might not since I don't have THAT much time on my hands, but there might be enough other people who are interested, and it might be interesting to see what is submitted around the world.

Map displays, usually for tourism. These include transit schematics, park trails, downtown maps, and museum displays. Qualifications: - Must be a permanent display. - Paper map displays OK only if mounted, protected from the weather, and inaccessible. - Mall and building maps?? Perhaps as a subcategory, but I'm more interested in the ones intended for tourism.

There was a locationless cache that had boy scout camps. You might check the categories to see if it was transfered over. I saw a category on Eagle Projects, already.

Putting my request in the queue: Designs using compass points. Usually, these are tiled or etched into the concrete/stone as designs, but I have also seen some statues with them. Qualifications: - They can either be Mariner compass points (minimum the four cardinal points - N E W S, but more commonly eight or 16), or a ring with N E W S at minimum. - Usually flat on the ground, but may accept those on a wall - Must have at least either N(orth) or other origin design to designate North (or, if in the southern hemisphere, there might be some that use South). If it doesn't have any, it's not compass points. - Permanent (means that in a year or so someone can come to that spot and identify it). - Actual compasses only if they are permanently mounted at that location (perhaps this would be a subcategory). - Extra points for testing the accuracy of the points to a real compass (I have found one that was well off). Perhaps this fits as a sub-category under 'Public Art'

Full support!

I give it my full support! This could be a huge category. See the steam locomotives locationless caches - there were well over a hundred in those alone. I can see the same thing happening to other common objects such as depots. I suggest several sub-categories be used, including (but not limited to): Steam Locomotives; Diesel Locomotives on Display; Depots and Stations (perhaps subcategories of 'active' and 'reused'); Historical Sites; Museums; and Favorite Observation Locations.

I throw in my support for this category! I am proposing a 'friendly amendment' that it include more than 'civil engineering' firsts. I am investigating such sites in my area, with a focus on manufacturing and mechanical engineering related sites/artifacts. I could post well over a hundred! Maybe a sub-category or two would work. N/S

I've been doing the same. I now reference things according to the proximity to stations/marks. Every time I hear of a fire or a demolition, I wonder if it was an NGS benchmark, fearing that 'there goes another one.' A week ago, there was a line of terrible storms that hit the South Shore towns of Boston. The TV news had shown several trees torn up and interviewed people about their experiences. They also said that a church steeple had been hit by lightning and a small fire started. The Fire Department, however, made it there in time to keep the damage minimal. They mentioned the denomination (Congregational) and showed the very top (blackened on one side) and wind vane of the spire. I looked up the marks in Hingham and found it was in fact this mark: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=MY4355 My 200th find! Now I'm debating whether to go back to the spot and report it, or let someone else report it.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/112...005-516270.html The article says that the Burlington County Bridge Commission has a new policy that forbids people from taking photographs of bridges while on commission owned land (the article also states that the commission can't enforce the policy off commission property, but you may still be stopped and questioned). I Found this article from an online newsletter that I get. Also, announced a couple days ago, photography is now not permitted at any MBTA station platform. By the way, are any of the spires on the bridge a benchmark???

I think I had come across this site once, but had forgotten about it. The collection of the old maps of Boston are wonderful by themselves, but, through the GIS viewer, they have scaled each map precisely so that it is easy to compare the old shorelines with the new and get a real sense of how Boston grew over time. And, I was captivated by the timeline feature that displays the maps, one by one through time! Thanks!

Wow!!!!! How fortunate! I will be in Calais this week!!! I HAVE TO FIND THAT ONE!!! Thanks for telling me!

Bringing this subject back to the original post.... Hi, Munin; Congratulations on such a great find. I exactly know what the challenges are, because I have tried to look for drill holes on stone ledges in the woods of New England, that haven't been visited in over 50 years. I roll my eyes every time I see one of those datasheets! I'm not sure how usefull drill holes are, these days, but they are still part of the database, and, therefore, they should be tracked. My opinion is that though they aren't set up for storing pictures, NGS would rather have them, even if they are stored on CDs in somebody's desk for the time being, than lose potentially valuable information. The mere fact that you could take a picture of the drill hole means that it is recoverable (not covered by leaf litter, roots, grass, dirt, etc.). The 'quality' of a photo is always a judgement call. I used to refer people to the gc site for some of my less than 'good' quality photos until I came to the same conclusions about the stability of web site names as previously discussed. Id submit them. Hope to cross paths one day!