Bryan
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Posts posted by Bryan
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My understanding of the gecoin policy is that in order to promote an ebay sale of any kind, charitable or otherwise, the coin for sale must be trackable on gc.com.
Jaime is correct. In order to promote an ebay sale of any kind, charitable or otherwise, the coin for sale must be trackable on geocaching.com
-Bryan
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Just confirming that each Signal Geocoin (Jan 06, Feb 06, etc.) will have a unique icon. They will not share an icon.
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Update:
Dear Bryan;
We here at SurfControl totally agree with you. That is why we have never had your site under Phishing and Fraud and do not know how your users could be experiencing that block. It currently resides under Hobbies and Recreation, but may be more suited to our Games category. In any event, I've updated it in our database again just so it will get the most recent IP and DNS information and that may clear out any conflicts it may have had in the past as sharing an IP situation with something that WAS on our Phishing & Fraud list.
I will do this today, and hopefully by the end of the business week, once your users networks have downloaded our most recently updated DNS and list info, it will be all set again.
http://www.surfcontrol.com/Default.aspx?id=539&mnuid=3.1 For Support
http://kb.surfcontrol.com/ For our Knowledge Base and F.A.Q.
http://www.surfcontrol.com/default.aspx?id=355&mnuid=1.1 For Our Internet Threat Database and Criteria
Regards,
Threat Analysis & Research Team
www.surfcontrol.com
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Since we are not permitted to provide a legal counsel, I would suggest that you take a look at this site since it has a lot of relevant information relating to trademarks and what may or may not constitute infringement:
http://www.marklaw.com/trademark-glossary/confuse.htm
When we review logo and coin designs submitted to Groundspeak, it is our goal to avoid the possibility of infringement and any design that we find to be confusingly similar to our trademark is not approved. The more is looks like our logo, the less likely it will be approved.
Our Trademark is the 4-box square logo, not the Gx logo.
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I spoke to someone at Surfcontrol this morning and they gave me an email to use for addressing the issue. I have since sent them an email and we'll hopefully have this resolved shortly. I will post an update when I have one.
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I am fairly certain that you are incorrect in your assumtion. The wording is pretty clear that if it is sold ANYWHERE, it shouldn't be discussed here if it isn't trackable.
If it is not trackable and you discuss it here, you WILL be in trouble of you decide to sell it later, no matter where it is sold.
I think it is safer to just not discuss any design that you might potentially sell, unless you plan on having it be trackable on geocaching.com.
--Marky
Marky is correct.
If the non-trackable coin will be sold anywhere, then it should not be discussed or otherwise promoted here.
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So, if a non trackable coin is intended to be sold there is never to be a mention of that coin?
What about coins that were intended to be sold that were announced before this new policy came into play? How are we to tell the people who expressed interest in it that it's available?
If we can't utter the words 'nontrackable' or 'for sale' on the GS forums can we announce that information on a coin is available on a different web site? Or should we just open up an GeoCoins For Sale yahoo group now and avoid the rush?
1. Correct. However, if it is only intended to be traded, then feel free to discuss it.
2. If they have already been produced, mentioning them will be permitted under the grandfathering exception posted previously. See #3 (click here)
3. No, announcing that information on a coin is available on a different web site would be promoting the sales of the coin, in violation of the new policy. A Geocoins For Sale yahoo group is fine.
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Some answers:
Let me start by noting that prior to releasing the policy, a last minute decision was made to allow the trading of non-trackable coins. This was done in order to encourage the creation and use of non-trackable coins while still limiting sales of coins in the Groundspeak forums to those that were trackable.
Sure, people might try to work around those rules and some, or most, might actually get away with it. However, those who use the forums to promote the sale of their non-trackable coins and get caught will be punished somehow. Hopefully the threat of punishment will be enough of a deterrent. If not, it is our problem to address.
So, here is an answer to some of the questions:
QUOTE
So, here are official questions on the new guidelines:
1: Can we only discuss designs of coins that will be trackable?
2: If I'm offering a non-trackable coin for trade can I post its image (within acceptable community standards of course)
3: If I'm working on a non-trackable coin, can I solicit design comments/critisism?
1. If the coin will eventually be sold, then you can only discuss designs of coins that will be trackable. Otherwise, we will consider it promotion of the coin. If the coin will not be sold, then you can discuss the design.
Note: If we find out that you sold a non-trackable coin after promoting it (through the use of design input solicitation) in the Groundspeak geocoin forums, you will be subject to moderation, the severity of which will solely depend on our perception of the intent of your action.
2. Yes. Same Note above applies.
3. Yes, unless the coin will be sold. Please refer to the answer to #1.
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Nope, CITO donations are not tax deductible. CITO.org does not have a separate tax ID.
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Am I to understand that if I want to make a personal coin and have it NOT be trackable I still have to have the artwork approved by Groundspeak even if I just want to trade within these forums. 
If this is true then will I have to pay a service fee to get approval of the artwork so that Groundspeak can still make a buck off me.
No, Groundspeak only requires design approval for trackable coins.
Geocoin designs which bear the geocaching.com logo remain subject to the geocaching.com logo usage guidelines.
Note that any coin posted with an offensive design may be removed my the forum moderators.
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OK but what about my case. I have 150 coins almost in the hopper. I CAN trade all 150 but would like to reserve 40 to sell ( 1 or 2 per person ) to new coin traders who don't have a coin collection built up.
Can this crack like get filled in?
p.s. I see the above post re: coins getting produced prior to this new policy. However, I don't have them made yet, I have the quote and am waiting for payment method.
Follow up with me via a PM. We'll work something out.
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Here are some answers and clarifications about the questions that have been posted.
1. We are not saying that this forum is limited to coins that are trackable on geocaching.com. We are saying that SALES of coins in this forum are limited to those which are trackable. You can use this forum for selling and trading GC-trackable coins. You can talk about trading coins even if they are not trackable.
The only thing restricted is promotions of non-trackable coin sales. Groundspeak operates these forums, provides the bandwidth, and has a moderating team that must monitor all the activity. It is our choice to limit the use of our forum as a free promotional tool for people or companies that produce geocoins.
We have no desire to host a free marketplace, on our dime, so that others can create their own geocoin businesses. If they are willing to help pay for the bandwidth, etc., by paying for the tracking functionality, then they are welcome to sell their coins in the forum.
2. To answer Atlanta Gal's question, if you produce a trackable geocoin and choose to use the services of another website to facilitate orders and sales, it is fine to provide a link to the specific page where your coin is located and sold (as opposed to the general catalog page for that site’s product offerings.
3. To answer several questions about non-trackable geocoins that are already in process, we recognize that the owners of these coins were relying on the ability to publicize their coins in this forum. So, if you have a non-trackable geocoin that has already been produced, it is OK to offer it for sale here. To help our moderators, please state in your post that your coin series was produced prior to the announcement of the new forum guidelines. Note that abuse of this allowance will not be tolerated.
Please keep asking any questions and we will do our best to answer them quickly.
[EDITED # 3 to say non-trackable, instead of trackable]
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Since UtahAdmin has published the contents of my letter to him in a public forum, along with commentary, I feel that I must respond. Normally, this issue would not have been publicized at all because I believe it is in poor taste to air this type of matter in a public forum.
To put things in context, the Admin Only Forum has always been a bit like a Teacher’s Lounge. Moderators are able to let their collective hair down for candid discussions on various topics and policies. Often Groundspeak solicits assistance with things like new policies – with the understanding that these discussions are confidential. Moderators are informed of this early on so there is no confusion.
In this situation, the discussion of a yet-unfinished policy was used to recruit members to a commercial website. It was immediately realized from the content of UtahAdmin's email that this information was leveraged outside of the Admin Only Forum for the benefit of his commercial web site. Not only was Groundspeak upset by this, but other moderators were offended by this breach of trust.
I have met UtahAdmin personally and I think he is a great guy. In his capacity as volunteer reviewer, he has done so much for the geocaching community and I genuinely like him. Additionally, we do not have any problem with the fact that he runs a commercial web site (thecachingplace.com). In fact, many other volunteers also run commercial web sites.
However we really had no choice but to revoke his privileges as a voluntary reviewer based on the breach of trust caused by this conflict of interest. It was an extremely difficult decision and I am sad that we had to make it. However I believe it was the right one.
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To ensure that this forum is a success, please respect our ground rules when it comes to discussions of selling and trading of geocoins:
- This forum may be used for selling, trading or giving away of geocoins which are trackable on Geocaching.com. This includes any trackable coin produced by an individual, business or geocaching organization. Non-trackable coins may be posted for trade by individual coin owners. The proceeds from a permitted coin sale can be used for any purpose, such as personal profit, support of a geocaching organization, or to benefit a charitable cause.
- Links to Ebay sales of trackable geocoins are permitted, but only for unactivated coins or sales where the seller is the actual coin owner or the coin owner has granted explicit permission for the sale of their coin.
- Those choosing to participate in an exchange on this board take full responsibility for any consequences of that exchange. Geocaching HQ is in no way involved in the sale or trading of items on this board and will not be held responsible or liable in any way for quality issues, fraud or any default of transfer on the part of the buyer or seller.
- Individual negotiations or information exchanges should take place through private e-mail or telephone correspondence, not on this board. Please use the communication tools provided on the site or private email.
- Posts made with the intention of soliciting customers to a coin selling, tracking, or manufacturing website will not be tolerated. Links to other commercial coin selling, coin tracking, coin trading and coin manufacturing web sites will be permitted only with permission from Geocaching HQ. Permission requests may be sent to geocoins@geocaching.com.
- The only exceptions to the Geocaching Forum Guidelines are listed above, standard forum etiquette will apply to all discussions in the geocoin forum. Geocaching HQ reserves the right to determine if any posts are inappropriate for this board. No cross posting, spam or other abuses will be tolerated. Cross posting in the regional forum for specific regional coins will be permitted.
- (ADDED 4-4-06) Promotion of coin and pin combinations are permitted where trackable coins are being promoted in conjunction with pins which are directly related to the trackable coins being sold. The coins and related pins must be sold at the same time and on the same website.
- (ADDED 3-12-15) Since Geocaching HQ discourages virtual logging of trackables, we will not permit TB codes to be posted in the Geocaching Forums at this time.
- (ADDED 09-14-22) Updated email address in bullet #5 to geocoins@geocaching.com
Please Note: The guidelines above are specific for the geocoin forum, threads mentioning charitable solicitations will not be allowed in any other forum without express permission from Geocaching HQ.
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Groundspeak will be producing this coin design (or at least something very close to this design). Of course, it will be trackable.
Details to follow asap.
-Rothstafari
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An Offical Groundspeak response:
Unfortunately, ladies and gentlemen, Groundspeak is going to decline the listing of this cache.
By listing the cache, we would arguably be promoting and/or benefiting from an illegal activity on geocaching.com, regardless of whether or not the law would actually be enforced in this particular case.
As a company responsible for maintaining this web site for the future of geocaching, we do need to be somewhat risk averse. That is not to say that we will back away from everything that involves risk; however, where the benefits do not clearly outweigh the potential cost (in terms of both legal exposure and negative public perception), I don't believe it would be prudent to proceed.
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Groundspeak and the moderators are currently working on a set of guidelines to address commercial vs. non commercial activity in the forums. We should have a policy clarification shortly.
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...in the past, in order to get the custom icon, we had to make 1000 coins. Will this be the case for personals as well?
Nope, the minimum for personal coins is 500.
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What promted the change in personal coin icons? I can see our stats pages getting very, very messy now...
Many geocachers contacted us and asked if they could have a custom icon for their coins. They wanted people to be able to collect each others coins and have the icons appear on their stats pages.
And, speaking of stats pages, we are going to clean them up by adding a new tab for coins so that they don't clutter the other statistics. Hopefully that will help.
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Ok, here some answers to questions posted above (excuse me if I paraphrase (um, copy) some of your comments):
3D dies are allowed, but you can't have a geocoin in the shape of a ball or cube and have it trackable. We do want Geocoins to remain coins.
Yes, personal coin owners can now design their own icon to be associated with their coins. Note that, unfortunately, we can not associate icons with previously developed coins, only new ones.
The policy applies to trackable coins and does not address non-trackable coins.
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Here is the latest information regarding Groundspeak’s Geocoin tracking policy and requirements for creating trackable coins.
Groundspeak Geocoin Policy
As of 3-4-09
Design Considerations:
1. The final design of each geocoin must be approved by Groundspeak prior to production. Designs must be family friendly and may not include modified versions of the geocaching.com logo.
2. Use of the geocaching.com logo is not required. However, if you wish to use the geocaching.com logo, the ‘circle r’ trademark symbol must appear as part of the logo.
3. All trackable coins must bear the text, “Trackable on Geocaching.com" or “Track on Geocaching.com”
Order Details:
1. Generally, Personal Geocoin codes will begin with “PC” prefix and will be named “Personal Geocoin”
2. If 50 codes or more are ordered, a custom name may be requested.
3. If 50 codes or more are ordered, a custom icon may be ordered (details below).
3. If 50 codes or more are ordered for a geocaching event, a custom name may be requested, a custom icon may be ordered and the “EV” prefix may be requested.
4. If 1,000 codes or more are ordered, a custom name may be requested, a custom icon may be ordered and a custom prefix may be requested.
5. A custom activation code may be requested for any series of 100 coins or more. The activation code must be the same for all coins in the series.
Custom Coin Icons:
1. Available for Geocaching organizations, associations, commercial coin groups and Personal Coins.
2. The cost for a custom icon to be associated with your coins is a one time fee of $150. The icon design will need to be supplied to us in GIF format (non-animated) in the following pixel sizes: 16x16 and 32x32
3. All icon submissions must be the property of the owner or used with the owners permission.
4. 50 code minimum order.
Custom Code Series:
1. Following the first order of 1,000 codes for a custom prefix series, future orders for the same custom prefix with a new icon only require a 100 code minimum.
Cost and Details:
1. The cost per tracking number is US$1.50 and can be paid via paypal or credit card.
2. There is a 50 code minimum purchase required (although custom prefixes require a 1,000 code minimum order).
3. Note that some of the coin manufacturers listed below have purchased blocks of PC and EV codes for resale in smaller quantities. These numbers may be split between coins but each individual coin design must be approved prior to production. (Special Note as of September 2008: it seems that most, if not all, of the geocoin manufacturers are no longer reselling smaller batches of codes. If we hear of any of them who are, I will include their info here).
4. Codes with corresponding activation codes will be emailed in a txt file although an excel file may also be requested.
5. It generally takes 5-10 days to process the coin tracking number order.
Manufacturers:
The following coin manufacturers are familiar with our geocoin policies and can assist you with other details. If you contact them, they can provide you with pricing and art samples.
www.coinsandpins.com
www.personalgeocoins.com
www.oakcoins.com
www.thecachingplace.com
www.geocoinstore.com
www.chqualitycoins.com
www.landsharkz.ca
www.geocoinshop.de
www.geocachingshop.com
www.cachezone.de
www.3geeks.ca
www.dorkfishcoins.com
www.cacheaddict.com
www.tsunrisebey.com
www.usageocoins.com
www.geocoinshop.com
www.ukgeocachers.co.uk
www.worldcaching.com
www.geocoin.se
www.montereycompany.com
www.mygeocoin.de
www.lillysue.com
www.geoswag.com
www.crakeproductions.com
www.geocoins.biz
www.directmint.com
www.spacecoastgeocachers.com
www.phdcoins.ca
www.hagglecoins.com
www.geocachingshop.nl
www.geokes.cz
www.mypersonalgeocoin.de
www.dosen-futter.com
www.ftfshop.eu
www.wbcoins.de
www.cache-corner.de
www.woodennickelgeocoins.com
www.gxproxy.com
Resellers only (These do not manufacture geocoins)
www.worldcaching.com
www.Shop4Swag.com
www.gregsonvaux.com/GeoCoins/
Selling Trackable Geocoins:
If you wish to sell your Trackable Geocoins for profit or otherwise, you may do so.
If your coin is non-trackable and bears the geocaching.com logo, it may NOT be sold unless specific written permission has been obtained from Groundspeak to sell the coin.
To Get Started:
1. Please send your coin design to (annie at Groundspeak.com) for review.
2. If you have chosen a coin manufacturer to produce your coins, please let us know which one you have chosen.
3. Please let us know the desired quantity, desired coin name and desired code prefix (if applicable)
If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact me.
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Who's the cute Lab?
His name is Shelton G. Schmidt. He is owned by Michael Schmidt who, incidentally, brought a gps unit with him to work in the year 2000 and lent it to Jeremy Irish. The ball rolled downhill from there.
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We are pleased to annouce a new Geocaching Dog Product, The Dog Bandana:
We hope that you, and more importantly your dogs, like it.
Rothstafari
Groundspeak Inc.
Am I to understand that if I want to make a personal coin and have it NOT be trackable I still have to have the artwork approved by Groundspeak even if I just want to trade within these forums. 
Forum Problems?
in Website
Posted
Thank you everyone. This is confirmation that Groundspeak is aware of the issue. We'll post more details when we have them.