Wreck Diver

I'm not sure whether to respond to this post as a law enforcement officer again, or just start running BOP and warrant checks on some of the cachers that thought that your question was a chance to soapbox! Maybe you should have just asked for opinions from cachers that could pass a urine test?

Other than what I have read of the supposed Wisconsin cache in this forum, I have no knowledge of the aforementioned cache or of the credibility of the supposed finder. However, I will express no surprise that such a cache could exist based on some of the cache containers that I have seen depicted in the Pictures - Cool Cache Containers (ccc's) discussion that have been approved, or that I have personally found in the field. I suppose a number of eager fledglings are to blame for unsanded and unlabelled military ammo boxes stuffed with McToys in high visibility places, and enthusiasm for the newfound sport obscures the implications of metal boxes labelled "PROXIMITY FUSES" being found under azaleas by casual or curious observers and subsequently released to atmosphere by Explosive Ordinance technicians who are pushing a 200 beat per minute pulse and hoping to go home at shift change. During my day shift yesterday, we had a Commonwealth of Massachusetts Hazardous Materials Team activation for four granules of compressed white powder found in a postal service container of mail to be distributed. Two District teams responded and several hundred thousand dollars in manpower later, it was determined to be a common edible also used as mechanical lubricant. Is there any doubt that an ammo box with wires, batteries, and motion activated electrical equipment would end up on a federal, state, and local response statistic? I've submitted some complex caches in my time (and I'd wager I'm probably the only one in the world to list a geocache aboard a Juliett Class Soviet Guided Nuclear Missle submarine) so I certainly understand the anxiety of waiting for an approver to review and approve a cache submission. Nonetheless, I continue to express that new cache submissions should REQUIRE a photograph of the cache container and cache location prior to cache approval to further eliminate the caches and cache containers liable to become a public safety issue and to further eliminate negative publicity against geocaching.com for ultimately approving the placement of the caches and containers.

In March 2005, I placed a locked ammo box aboard the Juliett 484, the Soviet Guided Nuclear Missle submarine that provided the cinematic stage for the movie "K-19: The Widowmaker." While I spent about 45 days working with the Juliett 484 administration and with geocaching.com in order to research, develop, submit, and hone the cache listing to meet each administration's expectations and guidelines, I was listing the Juliett 484 with trepidition. I made it clear that this cache would differ from other geocaches in that it would not be concealed, and that it was placed in plain sight in the Doctor's Quarters in Compartment 2. While the Juliett 484 administration were beyond agreeable to my ideas and suggestions, I had real concerns about hiding the cache container and having an over-eager cacher climbing on irreplaceable equipment or dismantling electrical components in order to locate the cache container. So far, the Juliett 484 cache has been a positive experience for the geocachers that search for it, the tourists that explore the sub and learn about geocaching.com during the tour, and for the Juliett 484 administration. (Talk about a win-win situation!) Here is the standard sized locked cache container I placed aboard the Juliett 484:

I am currently using the Insta-Notify Service to receive local Archive logs and local Publish Listing logs, and was hoping to suggest three minor changes: 1.) Would it be possible to add a field for new cache submissions so that owners can enter a town or city name where their cache will be located? If such a field was available for new cache submissions, the name of the city or town could be included in the Insta-Notify instead of Location: Massachusetts, United States 19.3mi E (31.1km E) 2.) Would it be possible to add the cache owner's username to the Insta-Notify for Publish Listing logs so that we are able to see who the cache owner is? At the present, we are only receiving the username of the cache approver. 3.) Would it be possible to add the cache waypoint ID (GCxxxx) to the Insta-Notify to make it easier to look up the cache by cellular WAP? Thoughts?

Dive Princess and I own nearly a dozen caches, and though we are both listed as owners of the caches, she does not receive an icon indicating that she shares ownership of and responsibility for the caches. As a result, the only way she is able to gain an icon for the caches is to log them as "finds." Hopefully the owner stats will eventually evolve to include dual hyperlinks and dual owner icons.

IowaAdmin, as a professional in multi-aspect public safety, I have had to deal with the recoveries of several individuals this year whose premature demise could have been avoided had a little common sense been applied. The latest attempt at recovery was when an inebriated football fan decided that he wanted bragging rights for swimming in the twenty foot waves that accompanied the hurricane-driven Nor'easter that slammed Massachusetts last week. Ironically enough, he entered the water in sight of "A Swell Mourning," one of my caches related to the loss of several Coast Guardsman who drowned during a rescue. As a multi-year cacher, I've had the displeasure of seeing the results of GPS fixation when combined with ill-thought hides and over-eager searching. Prima facia example is the deliberate dismantling of three hundred year old rock walls in the quest for a Tupperware container. It is beyond comprehension that a cacher would be so icon-driven or so ignorant so as to destroy a historical boundary that had survived three centuries of New England weather, randomly hurling rocks with eventual aspirations of another bitmapped smile. I had no uncertainty that the same tunnel vision or lack of common sense would be applied by cachers attempting to locate geocaches cleverly disguised as electrical components, so I have previously requested that such geocaches no longer meet approval guidelines. So, for what it is worth from someone that has to deal with the consequences of preventable accidents and the harrowing recoveries of its victims, I thank you.

Yes.. in the forums I understand people can be rushed and make a typo.. but on the finished cache page? Everyone has spell check. Use it. Sometimes they look like they have been written in some secret code. I just saw this cache listed near my home coordinates in Massachusetts, and I was immediately tempted to add it to my watch list after reading the long description and seeing that the owner has zero finds. I'll never understand why these get approved... anyone want to wager that the ammo can still bears the military "HIGH EXPLOSIVES" markings?

Active multi-tasker in all three fields.

What type of underwater cache are you most interested in? I've seen caches that use a water-resistant container and are left sitting in a shallow waterway. I've seen caches that use a water-resistant container and are lowered into deeper water using a tether anchored to shore. I've seen caches that use a water-resistant container and are generally only retrievable using SCUBA equipment. Adding depth to the cache's hide will add further complication to water resistance, container accessibility, and the ability to locate... but that's not to say that there isn't a way to create a noteworthy cache.

CCD & Lady Di also have the Scuba School II geocache in Hyannis, Massachusetts. The cache is onboard the wreck of the "Field and Sea," a thirty five foot cabin cruiser sitting upright in thirty feet of fresh water. Though the cache was listed back in May, I decided to wait to log it in hopes that the unfound cache would encourage a few cachers to become divers as well.

dkwolf, you might be thinking of 'The Rapture of the Deep' - (Scuba MultiCache) by The Artful Dodger, though it is only in 90 feet of water.

Chief Lane, As a police officer and a firefighter, I have no doubt that the UCPD handled the report of a suspicious package correctly, and that the suspicious package was handled as a potential threat so as to ensure officer and public safety. A geocaching.com guideline is that caches require approval of the property managers or other officials prior to cache placement and cache submission to geocaching.com. This is supposed to be resolved prior to listing and approval. Geocaching.com also requires that the cache containers are properly marked and clearly indicated as geocaches. Here is an example of a properly marked container: Unfortunately, as newer cachers experience creative puzzles, forgotten history, or innovative hides, they sometimes rush into the realm of geocaching with a zeal that occludes thought of the political climate or the public safety implications. These well-intentioned efforts by the inexperienced are the ones that generally lead to public safety intervention. As an experienced geocacher that is also involved in public safety, I am sorry to hear that you and your department became aware of geocaching and geocaching.com through this event.

When Dive Princess and I received twenty 2005 White Jeep Rubicon Travel Bugs in the latest distribution, I asked her to "grab" all twenty Jeeps and then virtually drop them into our Juliett 484 mystery cache before I retrieved and then distributed them to the rest of Rhode Island. This series of actions was to facilitate the transfer of WJTBs from the owner to Dive Princess to me, and is in no way related to the 2005 White Jeep Rubicon Contest, or in any way increasing our chances of winning the 2005 White Jeep Rubicon Contest. I've yet to enter a contest submission for what it's worth.

As a professional firefighter and member of the county technical rescue team, I doubt I was in any real danger of dying that day, but I ended up with some discomforting pictures of the Cliffsides and Grapevines event meet in Sutton, Massachusetts. And yes, there was a cache or two involved in the descents!

I understand your request, Vargseld? ™ Good idea... I'd support it.

Wouldn't each of the individual cache types have to be individually selected for the Insta-Notify archival Subscription? I was thinking that a blanket archival notification would be of value, like the Weekly Cache Notification.

You're correct, Stuey... my apologies for the misapplied rant!

That was essentially what I was suggesting, given a variable mileage range.

I have done a number of high-angle and caving caches like Cliffsides and Grapevines or Cliffsides and Caverns where the recommendations and warnings were prevalent and clearly stated. In an unattended electrically-disguised cache that requires tools to open, an unsupervised cacher with little electrical knowledge or electrical certification may elect to trust their + or - 30 foot coordinate differential and start disassembling electrical components in their single digit range looking for a cache container. Someone just hid a micro in the base of a movie theater light pole near me. That was a week before I went on a call for a dog that was electrocuted by a light pole not three miles further north. I'm not suggesting banning higher difficulty caches, but unless you are trained and certified in handling the specific hazards the caches are situated in, then cachers shouldn't be attempting to access caches in those environments. (For what it's worth, I would also be in favor of cachers submitting pictures of their cache containers when they submit the caches for approval because I'm tired of finding ammo box containers labelled "PROXIMITY FUSES" that later lead to Explosive Ordinance Disposal or bomb squad response posts.)

I stopped by the Celluloid Heroes cache a few days ago and after signing the cache log book, I returned home to sign the online cache page. After logging in, I had difficulty locating the Celluloid Heroes cache page when searching for caches by Zip code. I turned on the GPS and retrieved the Celluloid Heroes cache info and the user waypoint I obtained at the cache. I entered the Waypoint ID into the "HIDE & SEEK A CACHE" page and found that the cache that I had logged a few hours before had been archived more than a week before. While the owner had assumed that an "archive listing" request was sufficient notification that the listing was being archived, I had no idea that the listing had disappeared days before due to supposed issue. Sudden disappearance isn't the same as active notification. I know there are many coding projects planned in the future, but I would like to request a Premium Member option for notification of "archive listing" requests for specific caches or caches within a range specified by the Premium Member so as to reduce fruitless searches and needless road trips.

That's pretty humourous, if one is prone to finding humor in other people's misfortune. As a geocacher who has several geocaches related to in-water loss of life, I've also acknowledged their loss of life through geocaches without putting others at risk. As a county technical rescue and public safety diver that has pulled six bodies out of the water in the last sixty days, I can probably also share some phone numbers of family members who might enjoy your snide mirth at their expense.

As a Professional Firefighter/EMT, you can rest assured that the vast majority of car accidents I respond to are directly related to cell phones. In fact, one of the accidents I responded to was a teenaged driver who drove into the back of a stopped motorist at 50 miles an hour without ever stepping on the brake pedal. We are trying to EXTRICATE her and backboard her and though we had five people being backboarded and transported to the hospital in a Mass Casualty Incident, she continued to talk on her cell phone as we applied the straps over her torso and she all but refused to hang up as we applied head blocks... until we told her she was also going to be arrested for driving to endanger while distracted. If you don't think this is much of an issue, stop on the side of the road and count the people driving by with their left hand and cell phone glued to the side of their head and eliminating a good portion of their left-side peripheral vision. I tend to expect every third person. It's only a distraction 'til you kill someone. Then it's the rest of your life.

A cache disguised as a lobster buoy may be plausible, but from personal experience, I have witnessed both fishing charter captains and lobstermen deliberately steer for and run over lobster buoys as malicious sport. For what it's worth, as a public safety diver, I have pressed criminal charges for the same acts because the ghosted traps continue to harvest and kill lobsters until the trap components degrade. You'll likely experience the same malicious interdiction if you decide a similiar hide, so stand forewarned.

I haven't had the good fortune of putting more than a decade of Police Academy training to work on A Killer Smile by TARG3T in Swansea, Massachusetts, but you can rest assured that it is high on my list of cold-cases to investigate.

As a professional Firefighter/EMT, I can only say that given the number of accidental electrocutions and electrical fires I respond to in any given week, I am personally dead-set against ANY cache that is intentionally engineered to resemble electrical utilities of any kind. We've all seen the evidence of outlandish cacher searches: eventually you're going to see a cacher fatality after they tried disassembling a high voltage junction box or transformer in the quest for a bitmap grin. My opinion counts for naught, but I would offer that Groundspeak and Geocaching.com ought to ban this type of hide before it becomes a fatal DNF and a indefensible prosecution.