39_Steps

This thread started in 2011. Delorme PN-60 geocachers should have installed at least 3.3/3.4 firmware. Latest 3.6 firmware, whether or not users occasionally suspect route file corruption issues, fixes some interim issues.

The urgency of the OP's time frame for a geocaching trip to Mexico seems to have shifted from "a couple of days" to a couple of weeks, based on posts here and on the Delorme forum. Nevertheless, the technical info in the above responses is not necessarily time sensitive. The Delorme PN-60 with current firmware design can be used as a standalone unit by transferring data, geocaching, and map files to and from the computer to the gps device with an SD card reader. But do note that it is not possible to transfer road routes or trail routes created on the computer to the device by SD card. Those route files must be copied via the proprietary usb cable to PN-60 internal memory in proprietary format via the Delorme Topo App Sync features. But there are sufficient routing capability on the device for typical geocache search operations. It remains to be seen if the OP will report having climbed the learning curve successfully so as to be able to use the device in the field without repairs or an umbilical cable.

To check out the geocaching features, put a formatted SDHC card up to 32GB in the PN-60 and power ON. Power OFF. Pull the SD card and copy a gpx file containing up to 1000 geocaches(less is better for testing) into the Waypoint folder on the SD card using a card reader or computer SD card slot. Place the SDHC card back in the slot in the PN-60, replace the batteries, being careful with polarity, and Power ON. Open the geocaching file and see what happens.

Lithium primary chemistry AA cells have a reliable voltage curve in the 1.8v to 1.4v range. Other AA cells are typically much lower. The Delorme PN-40/60 will stay powered up for a few seconds - just long enough for the user to reset the battery type if you know what to do - if powered ON with NiMH or Alkaline AA cells while the device setting is for the higher voltage lithium primary chemistry cells. As to the issue of USB cable contact issues for data transfer with certain computer setups, the original poster of this thread has now logged on to the Delorme User Forum and should receive commiseration over there.

It sounds like it is time to sign up on the Delorme forum. The link to the forum can be found from the Delorme dot com site. But do go into the PN-60 icon menu to Systems>>Settings to verify that the device USB power switch is ON. Also try installing new AA cells if you have not already done so to maximize the internal power that is available for cable data linking.

1) Charge up your old Eneloop AA cells or make plans to purchase new AA cells of some type. 2) Immediately install the Topo10 Mexico maps from the included DVD that contains the compressed map files for Mexico. If you have DVD issues (errors0, follow this link to download and install the semi-detailed Mexico maps before leaving the USA. https://support.delorme.com/kb/11-topo-north-america-10 3) The rest, including possible download of geocaching GPX files to an SD card or internal memory directory named Waypoints, is just nuts and bolts. Good luck.

Both Delorme Street Atlas and Delorme Topo North America in the various versions will save your spaghetti in 1 second *.gpl track logs of up to 5000 points per file on Windows 7. Waypoints can also be marked and saved by depressing the "M" keypad key shortcut to mark them. Either recent Delorme Windows 7 App can export in *.gpx format, although the Topo10 NA app is more powerful and has a track profiling view and 3D mapping. Since Topo is the preferred application, you might seriously consider a bundle that includes the PN-30 or PN-60 gps devices for added convenience for a "few" dollars more. Then would you please report back whether that all works seamlessly on your Win 8.1 Thinkpad tablet. Inquiring minds want to know.

Odd coincidence that you have mentioned a movie at this point in the thread, as I am just beginning to wonder, based on the compass becoming correct at 40mph, if Garmin has tied into a video camera frame timer and skewed their projected compass point distance by a factor of 1/29.97 ?? Edit: But first it seemed that the 59 foot/sec track point spacing at 40mph might be tied into the old sticky compass pointer issues in plain old ground zero geocaching.

Over the last two days I poked around the Delorme PN-60 elevation calibration menus, and then reset the PN-60 elevation to gps values in height and gave up. I did away with the slow automatic calibration and my user induced +1000 foot deliberate error above the actual +150 contour line that I hang around on. Then today I looked at the gps while sitting on a park bench and saw a gps Elevation of 1008 ft, or thereabouts. I was somewhat dismayed, until I remembered that I had just driven over a mountain pass an hour earlier and had really descended to an elevation of 950-1000 feet. I am old, so maybe we can blame senility. Back home at the +150 contour line level another hour or two later, I set the PN-60 outside for a 20 minute soak. By reverse engineering the displayed results, I determined that the NOAA Weather.gov manometer down at the airport at sea level was within 1/100th of an inch of mercury of being correct, so I am calling it a day. In fact I am calling it an entire year. Thanks for all the inputs. Now back to the regularly scheduled statistical analysis.

Likewise. Fortunately the Delorme PN-60 AND associated software may be a little smarter. The PN-60 that I was using for experimental elevation offset of Plus 1000 feet, based on pressure, got placed in the pocket of a bag in the back seat of the car and forgotten while it was driven 50 mi down and 50mi up the coast off and on for five hours. Barometric track log maintained an approximate elevation offset of 1000 feet from topo contours for the trip, but the same coordinate point baro elevation is shown as being 28 feet higher at the end of the return trip than at the beginning of the outbound trip. Neither rain nor snow interrupted the appointed rounds, and I am just reporting data, for I think I will turn the TV weather report on in 4 minutes and then immediately switch channels as usual while the weather person drones on for another quarter hour as usual. As to the "arguments" that each poster has presented in this thread, perhaps they are each relevant and not necessarily mutually exclusive to the topic focus of others. For instance, it is my experience that use of gps satellite elevation logging on an automobile road will usually provide better accuracy than absolute pressure ga(u)ges. But it perhaps more satisfying and educational to have a device that will display, if not record, both pressure and satellite elevation data independently and simultaneously.

I just turned on a Delorme PN-60, -Set track recording at 10 second intervals -Opened the blinds; got a fix -Selected barometer elevation for track point elevation recording; disabled gps elev recording "calibration". -Set an incorrect elevation calibration 1000 feet (~300+ meters) too high for an obvious large shift. -Opened the gpx track log in Wordpad from PN-60 SD card in the device. -Replaced the coordinate data values consistently by whole degrees to some place in Morocco. Saved file to computer scratch folder. -Imported the short track file into Delorme Topo9 -Looked at the plan view of the track log expanded on a blank canvas without maps in Africa. -Created a profile view of the track showing a constant 1000 foot elevation shifted display over the track log period of a few seconds. Comment: Seems that the barometric pressure can be used for recording elevation values consistently for short periods of time, and that the Delorme Topo9 app and PN-60 device can be quickly set up to demonstrate elevation profiles or create flat trail layer vector lines without elevation values. It took much longer to get a fix and write about it than to do it. Good luck with your mapping and profiling effort. The reason I shifted the coordinates to Africa was to verify that Delorme Topo9 North America would create a profile view in a distant continent.

If we infer from FabioSantos post and google that his primary hobby is competitive bicycling (BTT) someplace in Europe in which Spanish is the primary language, we can better understand the request for routable elevation profiling over locally detailed roads directly on the gps device while in motion. This is a tall order, pun intended, but perhaps in the Garmin scheme such programming does exist for Europe. Keep in mind that any such profiling based on topographic map contour lines may not show the correct elevations over bridges or road cuts and fills, even on computer mapping software. As to being able to include the elevation data field for proprietary Groundspeak geocache symbolized waypoints, this may vary with the gps device manufacturer if Groundspeak specifications prohibit or strip off said elevation data in downloadable PQs.

It is my understanding that the original Delorme Cache Register application for the PN-40 device was made obsolescent by the switch to open management of Cache (waypoint) files in gpx format with the release of Delorme Topo9 mapping software. That process worked well until Groundspeak modified the security protocol and broke 2-way Delorme customer communication in Topo9. Delorme did not "decide" unilaterally to abandon "that" original nifty Cache Register feature of transferring single or multiple caches in delbin format from whatever 3rd party app was available. However, device management of PQs as complete gpx files is better supported and more reliable . Delorme Topo10 once again contains automated support for file communication with Groundspeak PQs using existent security protocols for those who prefer not to unzip their own PQ files.

Oh brother! Yes I know this and I regret having ever asked this question. This forum is really a complete waste of time.. Following these l-o-o-o-n-g repetitive threads on built in magnetic compass aiming to fractions of a degree has been something of a refresher course for me, and I have even gotten a few chuckles about Garmin's pricey new Monterra compass issues. I also found a six year old white paper by Honeywell that was informative as a result (don't remember the link). Have a pleasant year end season, you all.

Just curiosity, but is this on internal battery power or external charger power?

I got a real chuckle out of the use of backup lightning rods in the Grand Canyon boating story. As to the future, I had similar thoughts about using gps routable cameras to detect RailRoad mechanical and lighted signals from the cab at about the time of the head-on RR collision in Chatsworth, CA a few years back: " According to Peter Norvig, Google’s head of research, it’s a hard problem for computer vision and artificial intelligence to pick a traffic light out of a scene and determine if it is red, yellow or green. But it is trivially easy to recognize the color of a traffic light that you already know is there. "

Gee, I'm glad that I did not know that some gps devices were not to be used in automobiles. I took my first Magellan for a ride as soon as I got it in the mid '90s. After stopping in a roadside rest parking lot, I drove the car forward and back while comparing it to a cheap vacuum cup compass. Mag Compass worked fine out of the car; gps compass worked fine inside the car while moving. The next day, I bought a compensated magnetic car compass for the first time in years to go with the gps. The new compass stuck on the windshield too, but it also had adjustment screws to compensate for the car's magnetic distractions.

It took PigSti several posts to mention that his primary reason for avoiding an uncompensated "electro-magnetic" compass in a handheld gps device is that he is a pilot of a small airplane. That logic makes perfect sense to anyone who has experience with such an uncompensated compass in an automobile, even though the electronic compass "should" automatically disable itself above walking speeds.

It may be that a version of the app you are looking for is already available for newer full featured Win 8.1 tablets (not Win 8RT). The application is called Delorme Topo10 for Windows - the same powerful application that many geocachers decry as having too steep a learning curve. Topo10 North America for Windows can be purchased bundled with a gps receiver for the USB port for around $100 US. The included maps of North America and Mexico are default Delorme maps, not default Google maps.

When working multicaches that require shooting a lot of bearings in the field, and where the author has decided to use mag north as the reference, the difference in just a degree or two declination over the distance between waypoints can make a lot of difference, especially if they accumulate. Had to remind a CO about that once on an older cache. That said, the declination for any location changes from year to year, and I was not aware that Garmin was providing updated tables to compensate for this (perhaps in firmware updates???). Our declination here in the Denver area has shifted down a full degree since I bought my first Summit HC. For some reason my old analog calculator - also known as a 10" wooden slide rule - happened to migrate to the top of the heap nearby. I don't remember taking it out of the case and really looking closely at it for years. Just now I wondered if I could see a half degree difference on the trig scales. Oh yes, in mid range. It even has an expanded ST scale (sine or tangent are about the same at smaller acute angles) that's usable up to 5 1/2 degrees spread over the 10 inch display. . . Oh yes. The original leather belt loop with snap is still in good condition for field work. Funny coincidence: While watching a US football game last night on TV I caught a glimpse of the dormitory from which I once walked to classes with that slide rule attached to my belt. Long ago, it was.

Perhaps I am somewhere between 'never' and 'always' in my concern with recalibrating the voltage dependent electronic compass in gps devices. However, sussamb's 'never bother' comment did get me out into an open space for some simulated geocaching with and without the electronic (magnetic) compass enabled in my primary device, which is not a Garmin. For someone old and sedentary (ahem), but somewhat device savvy, the electronic compass seems more likely to help than hinder when looking for a cache. However, I can see that a more active cacher on the run (faster than 2 mph?) might consider the electronic compass a nuisance.

With the Delorme PN-40 or PN-60 handheld gps devices, it is possible to change the Map focus point to a distant location and then search for nearest caches around that point. Probably the Garmin units will permit changing map focus location coordinates as well. If all else fails, disable the gps satellite search for a few minutes. As to searching only for caches within a certain distance along trail or road vectors for sorting purposes, I do not believe this is possible on the PN-40/60 devices in the field, but the Delorme Topo software can perform sorting searches along a route on the PC. Then multiple files of subsets of available PQs could be sorted and saved in gpx format for transfer to the gpx device. Be aware that the Delorme Topo and Street Atlas apps do not provide full scale cache database category/properties search engines like some of the dedicated database applications, but can be quite handy for proficient users of the PN-60 devices and Delorme apps who do not wish to climb still another product's learning curve.

Since the gps takes a finite amount of time to calculate and record points, would there not always be a consistent lag behind in the display if walking towards a waypoint or geocache? But isn't that irrelevant except for the first and last recorded point in any recorded track? Seems like the only way to get added distance if trying to walk in a straight line is if Pythagoras staggers randomly. Maybe Pythagoras needs a bicycle for the gyro effect? Back when Delorme was recording points at 10 foot intervals, seems like the needle used to swing back to a passed over waypoint anywhere between two and twelve feet past ground zero. This is likely OT, but I just thought I would toss this two foot delay at walking speeds of 5-6 fps into the mix for those of you who are comfortable discussing statistics.

Are you sure that the errors are not normally distributed about the average error of zero? If so, would not the errors cancel with the resultant sum of the total error being zero? In the World According to Garmin - oops I meant Garp - Grasscatcher seems to know whereof he speaks in regard to boots on the ground track recording while hiking. As he and others have posted, the theory goes out the window on a tree lined winding trail on the side of a mountain. Mineral2 infills with additional pertinent observations. On the other hand I have seen quite accurate distance recording at one second intervals with Delorme GPS devices at bicycling speeds on straight and open streets on a clear day.

That linked price is very good for a bundle that includes Delorme road and trail routable North America Topo/Road software for Win PC, plus road routable Topo/Road maps for the included Delorme PN-60 handheld GPS device. Any Class 10 32GB SDHC card can hold all maps for the contiguous USA. All the data is available simultaneously in the PN-60, but display of Topo contours can be disabled. The PN-60 Device alone is not a substitute for the better Automobile road routing GPS units with audible turn directions, but if the PN-60 is plugged into a portable PC USB port can provide powerful large display mapping with voice navigation, including routing to multiple geocaches. Road routing is supported in the PN-60 with Topo10 software, but will require user insertion of on device shaping waypoints/stops for longer distance routes, unless created on a computer with Topo10 and transferred. How many? How often? Depends on how straight the roads are.