BlueMoth

I am seriously unhappy about this. I use topo maps all the time, especially when planning a road trip route, which is what I was going to do today. Topo maps show me benchmarks and cemeteries and other cool stuff. I hope someone fixes this, fast. Please. I'll even say pretty please with sugar on it, if that gets them back.

Portland Cyclist, forget about the park and grab smileys. You should go caching in Forest Park or Tyron Creek or Marquam Hill, or the Gorge more often. Your blood pressure will go down a notch or two. I know mine does.

meh you're damned if you do and damned if you don't...contacting the CO can very well make you a friend or an enemy IMO best course of action is to contact the reviewer directly with your concerns This is why I suggest that Portland Cyclist come to some geo-events and get to know his local caching community. A friendly approach with particular concerns, face to face is not going to make him enemies here. However, a NA, however reasonable he might THINK is is, from an unknown, is not going to make him any friends.

Actually, that was a sincere and friendly invitation on my part. Maybe didn't seem like it after my rant, but it is. I really do hope you will come to an event. I will look forward to meeting up with you. I am sorry that you feel like you need to be the cache police in our town. Maybe in the future you should either walk away from the cache if you feel uncomfortable, and/or voice your concerns to the cache owner, first. Why make enemies when you can make friends? Give people a chance to make things right. Look, there are caches around here that I hold my nose to when I find them, there are some that I have felt very uncomfortable about getting, there are some that I pass by for the reasons you seem to think you need to post a NA on. But I don't arbitrarily decide which ones should go and which ones should stay. Getting to know your local cachers before acting rashly is a good thing. It is something to think about anyway.

Op, you have no caches hidden in Portland metro, you don't belong to GEOregon, and you have never attended a local event since you have been caching here. So as to your attitude about geocaching in Portland, all I can do is make a facepalm. What gives you the right to decide what caches I can or cannot find, or where or where not I can hide them? You are interpreting gs guidelines in a pretty restrictive and controlling fashion imo. Do you you even live in the city of Portland btw? Do you know how many different entities manage the local parks here? Only one that I know of within the City of Portland has a written geocaching policy. Can you tell me which one that is? You contacted Portland Parks and Rec? Big deal. Well, I suppose it will be a big deal if you go slapping NA's on every cache YOU decide are in violation of gs guidelines, or might or might not be in violation of particular park rules, if and when such rules are ever written. And the cache you are bragging that you slapped a NA on after you logged it as a found, that was at the Portland Transition Projects building across the street from Blanchett House, and next to the Greyhound bus station. Translation for those who don't live here: Transient population center of Portland. To get the cache you had to stand in the pay for parking lot of the Transition Projects building. Yes there is a No Trespassing sign there, just like there is one in every public parking lot in this city. But op, YOU decided that it was "unsafe" or whatever your NA excuse verbiage was. Scared to walk around in that part of town, are you? I don't see you slapping NA's on caches at other parking lots that have the same kind of signs. Or are you going there next? I don't particularly care about parking lot caches, but I do care about your attitude. You don't seem particularly interested in either being part of or giving back to the local geocaching community. So, just what are your motives? Maybe to clarify your intent, and voice your concerns to us locals, you could attend one of the next events. There are two coming up on 11/11. Hope to see you there.

Yeah, everyone's rants about bogus benchmark logging put the fear of great and powerful benchmark gods into me. I thought maybe I would get struck down without a photo. The ones I deleted, its ok. I can go back and get photos some other time. And btw, what is the protocal about logging a benchmark find. Just factual? Not writing some longwinded thing about how I almost got flattened by a car when I crossed the road, or the knock a buzzard over smell of the dead skunk in the ditch? Also, I don't get why someone would go around marking benchmarks as destroyed when they have no proof that they are. Scratches head. Is is just a mean trouble making thing? Well, on to the mysterious benchmark I found. I went back and took another look and took more photos. I carefully examined the disk and someone has gouged the center out with repeated blows. Gad. Any identifying marks are completely gone. So I will probably never know what it was supposed to say. The wall of the benchmark. the benchmark. gouge marks.

Thank you everyone for your kind replies and support and encouragement. I really like benchmark hunting as it is like an unexpected surprise every time I stumble upon one. Maybe with a little practice, I can get better at it. I will read all the links provided and learn as I go. As to BM 103, the nearest coordinates I can provide are that of the nearby geocache GCYK9H, which is not more than 15 or 20 feet away. N45 15.758 W122 50.620 The benchmark is set into the wall of some kind of concrete ruins directly on the south bank of the Willamette river. I believe at this spot there was a ferry landing, which was dismantled in the 1950's. So maybe it was some kind of tidal mark. The next time I am down that way, I will try to get better photos of the mark, the wall and the surroundings.

BlueMoth, welcome to the world of benchmarking, and congratulations on wanting to get it all correct. There is a little learning curve, but you will get it. Your question is probably the most common one in these forums (I asked it myself). Hopefully, the following which is copied from the benchmarking FAQ's will help....including on what to do with USGS disks not listed in the NGS database: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/ Benchmarks Not in the Database I found a benchmark, but it isn't in the database. Why? To answer this question, you need to understand a bit about what "the database" is. The database used by Geocaching.com is a copy (from around 2000) of the database that NGS maintains. Although the NGS database has lots of marks in it, it does not have them all. In order for a mark to get into NGS's database, it has to go through a process known as "bluebooking" which ensures the disk meets the minimum requirements to be of geodetic quality (aka the highest quality possible). The NGS is not the only organization that creates and uses benchmarks and other types of control markers. In order for any mark to get "in the database" they must be "bluebooked", which can take a lot of time and effort and is often not done to save money. Remember, even though some marks might not be in the database, they are still highly important, both to businesses and to individual citizens such as your neighbors, so please treat them with respect, while enjoying the thrill of the hunt. We'll try to find other databases and add them to the site as well. If you have access to one of these databases and would like to submit it to Groundspeak, contact us. Since the Groundspeak benchmark database was obtained from the NGS in the year 2000, newer benchmarks and recent reports on older marks will not be visible here in Groundspeak's copy. Besides new disks, there are many cases of benchmarks monumented significantly before 2000 but entered the NGS database only after the year 2000. The benchmark I found is not in the database, how can I log it? If the benchmark is a disk-type marker or is referenced in an online database, you can log your find in the US Benchmarks category in Groundspeak's Waymarking site. If the benchmark is in Canada, you can log it in the Canadian Benchmarks category in Waymarking. I found a U.S. Geological Survey bench mark where there is a "BM" mark on a topographic map, but it isn't in the database. Where can I find more information about this kind of mark and how can I log them? The U.S. Geological survey (USGS) established thousands of benchmarks to help them make their topographic maps. The number next to the "BM" is the originally measured elevation of the disk. A large number of these USGS marks are not in the NGS database be cause they were never "bluebooked" as explained in the section above. The NGS and the USGS are separate government agencies so the inclusion of USGS marks in the NGS database is not automatic. Unfortunately the USGS did not get their paper records of benchmark location notes onto computer files. This makes those USGS marks that are not in the NGS database quite a challenge to find! You can log USGS disks you find that are not in the database in the US Benchmarks category in Groundspeak's Waymarking site. LSUFan, thank you for the information. I guess I can try Waymarking. I think I fiugred it out and here is the photo of the benchmark

Oh, lord, I feel like my head is about to explode. So it is ok to log a benchmark without a photo? Ok, just want to clarify that. Umm, photo for BM 103 http://http://img.geocaching.com/user/31945b47-34db-4072-9ef0-97d79befe03c.jpg It was withing 10 feet of the geocache, and the topo map shows it as designation BM 103, so I suppose that is what it has to be. Hope this photo comes out. well, shoot that one didn't work either.. I have it downloaded both to my profile page and to an archive cache. I don't know why it isn't showing up in the link

Well, the thing is, I have never taken the coordinates of the benchmarks I have found. Supid now in retrospect, I will have to start doing that. I can usually figure out where I took a photo of a benchmark, based on my caching photos, and yes, most of them are near caches I have found. The example I posted however, is not in the data sheets, nor in the NGS benchmark viewer.

Where to start? Well, after reading some of the threads on this forum, I promptly went back and deleted most of my benchmark finds that I could not verify without a photo. There are a couple that I have photos of, and will add, I just have to dig them out of my files. Seems that there is a protocal on benchmark logging that I didn't understand. I am trying to figure it out properly, and first thing is saying thank you for all the information I see on this forum. Second thing is that when I am out caching and find a benchmark, I take a photo of it. I don't actively look for them, I just find them. Going back over my photos, I have a dozen or so photos of usgs benchmarks and simply cannot figure out which ones they are, or if I do figure out which ones they are, I cannot find them on the NGS benchmark viewer or on any data sheets. I just found one a couple of days ago in Marion County Oregon. The designation is BM 103 and it is within 15 feet of this cacheDead Fairies I looked on the gc topo map next to the cache, and it shows the benchmark, but it is not listed anywhere I can find, nor is it on the NGS benchmark viewer. I took a photo http://http://img.geocaching.com/cache/a3458a5f-1f36-49d7-b0d1-937f83e295b1.jpg and you can see that it is a usgs benchmark, not in very good shape though. So now what do I do? I have several examples of this, don't want to get too overwhelming and post a bunch of pics right off the bat. Thanks for any help you all can give me.

If I could point out just one example of a great children's cache it would be one that I found in Mississippi. Here is a link to Treasure Chest of Sparkles. A very fun and easy mystery cache for kids all ages, filled with pirate flags, eyepatches, mardi gras beads, etc. I believe that the CO keeps it well stocked. edit to say mystery, not multi

Perhaps you are thinking of Holy Macro! It is down the road from the Original Stash Plaque. Yes, a huge barrel filled to the brim with I don't remember how many film cans. Each one has a slip of paper in it and you must open each one to find the true log. I don't know how many faries died here, but I wanted to kill someone by the time my friends and I emptied the whole barrel and finally found the log. The co drove by while we were looking...and laughed at us. Pretty funny.

Go to the cache page and click edit listing in the drop down menu. It will take you the original template (or whatever you call it). You then edit the text from there.

I love them too. I think it is great for people to come and visit pioneer cemeteries and pay their respects to our collective ancestors. If it were not for geocaching, some of them would be completely forgotten. I went ahead and gave all the titles R.I.P. It doesn't seem to have confused anything about the listing and even gives all of them a bit more clarity.

I was thinking that the end of the title would be the best place to put RIP, thanks for reinforcing that idea. I had a dscussion with some cachers awhile ago who were avid pioneer cemetery cachers. They mentioned that when they traveled they wished for either an attribute, or something in the title that made it obvious which caches they could seek out. I have thought the same thing myself. Sometimes you miss a good one (when traveling) because some people put nothing in the title or description to indicate it is a pioneer cemetery. You just end up skipping it. So I was wondering if putting in RIP would be helpful or not.

I have a number of pioneer cemetery caches. I am thinking of adding RIP to the title of each of them. We don't use the term "Spirit Quest" here, but I was thinking RIP might be useful for people who like to seek out cemetery caches, as there is no cemetery attribute I can attach. I don't know why I didn't think of it when I initally wrote them up, but I am thinking about it now. My cache Emily Bell would now become RIP Emily Bell or Emily Bell: RIP. Is it considered bad form to add a bit more verbage to the cache title? Has anyone ever changed their cache title, and if so, why, and how was it received?

You realize that GC12 is on the lower slopes of Mt. Hood, down an unplowed logging road that is probably under a few feet of snow right now. It would be a long hike in from hwy 26. If you are going up on the mountain you will need chains and will need to stop at the Zigzag ranger station off the 26 to get a snopark permit (maybe on that one, I'm not sure where the permit area starts) and some maps, some advice and let someone know where you are going. Here is a link to the ranger station. http://www.co.clackamas.or.us/socialservic...ccss0291aa.html Here is a weather link to the the nearest ski park (the lowest one on the mountain), just up the road from Zigzag and Welches. There will be a new foot of snow come Tuesday. http://www.onthesnow.com/oregon/mt-hood-sk...wl/weather.html I would not try for this cache in December, but that is just me. If you go, go prepared and don't become another mountain statistic. Good luck.

I also love the disapearing-reappearing RR blues series in Oregon. Very cool cache series. Another series I did part of was the mobster hideouts in Las Vegas, called Las Vegas Mob History. Loved that one. I have a series called The Great Plank Road. Five caches take you ten miles from near downtown Portland to outside of Beaverton and trace the old wooden plank road that was laid down in the mid 1800's. I varied the sizes of the caches, and all have old photos inside that depict logging and how the area looked in the 1800's. Most people who have done the series seem to like it.

I can't believe I forgot about the Church of Elvis! I loved it when it was on 2nd and Ankeny, I haven't visited the new location, yet. Mill Ends is the name of the tiny park. Portland also used to have a museum called the Velveteria, nothing but paintings on black velvet, too bad it closed down last year. I think I spelled Megler wrong, it is not Melger, but Megler, oops, sorry Washington.

I agree. I think it is the only state where you can find high plains, high desert, desert playa, volcanos, rain forests and ocean beaches. Here are more for Oregon. 41. Headwaters of the Metolius river 42. Oregon City + Willamette Falls and the McLaughlin House 43. John Day fossil beds and the Painted Hills 44. Newport + Ocean fishing and Oregon Coast Aquarium 45. The Oregon Gardens N of Salem 46. Ft. Stevens + Battery Russell + South Jetty Ocean side mouth of the Columbia river + Bridge from Astoria to Melger Wa if you really want the pants scared off of you. 47.The Oregon Hell Hole 48. Wind surfing and apple orchards in Hood River 49. Tillamook Cheese Factory 50. Another personal favorite, Look for real Pirate treasure on Neahkahnie Mountain and be the FTF it. I would add the Brick factory at Monroe, but I think they tore it down.

Ok, I give, there is absoutely nothing to do in the state of Washington, so scratch that one off the list. Btw, the Wilbur whips is a road that goes down the side of the cliff from Wilbur to the Keller Ferry. I think I am about to die everytime I drive it. Since Washington is such a wretched state, forget about it. Best come to Oregon, we got lots more than just Crater Lake. No particular order 1. Alvord desert 2.Lava tubes in Bend 3. Fort Rock 4. Smith Rocks 5. Warm Springs Indian Reservation 6. Deschutes river 7. Fossil digging in Fossil 8. Snake river + canyon for a bonus 9. Emmigrant hill and Oregon trail wagon tracks 10. Pendleton roundup and Pendleton woolen mills 11. the Blue Mountains 12. More high plains wind turbine farms 13. Columbia river gorge and 77 some waterfalls 14. Old Columbia river hwy road above Mosier with basalt tunnels, now hiking only 15. Bridge of the Gods 16. Post Office at Bridal Veil 17. Crown Point 18. Oregon Caves 19. Oregon vortex 20. Ashland Shakespere festival 21.Silver falls 22. Mt. Angel Abbey and Oktoberfest 23. Rogue river 24. Oregon Beaches all public 25.11 lighthouses 26. Sand dunes at Florence 27.Wreck of the Peter Iredale and black sand beach at Clatsop spit 28. Ft. Clatsop 29.Lewis and Clark salt cairn at Seaside 30. Sea Lion caves 31.Sitka Spruce tree memorial (largest one in existance blew down, now a memorial) 32.Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood 33.Little Crater Lake 34. 21 Volcanos, if you like to live dangerously, Mt. Hood is the one most likely to blow up next 35.Yamhill county wineries 36. Mint fields between Eugene and Corvallis 37.Pioneer cemeteries 38.Portland: Rose gardens, Rose festival, Portlandia, Pittock mansion, Hoyt arboretum, Forest park, Voodooo donuts, 40 brewpubs/microbreweries, Mt. Tabor, Rocky butte, Confluence of the Willamette and Columbia rivers, Sauvie Island, Oaks park and Oaks bottom, Portland Underground tour, Waterfront park, Powell's bookstore and my personal favorite, crisscross the Willamette river 11 times on 11 different bridges. Oh yeah, add: 39. Astoria and Astor column 40.Breitenbush Hotsprings. . Sure there is more, but that is all I have for now edit to spell Alvord and Iredale correctly.

double

Just the thing I needed to fix my broken shoe lace. Now what to do with the pieces of melted Jolly Rancher?