Happy Gillmore

vds Posted on Jan 30 2004, 11:51 PM That is sweet. He knew what the website said and went anyway. Boy, have I heard that from my kids before. What ever his rational, he knowingly (by his own admission) got the TB after the posted hours on the website. That is a FOUL. It may have been done in fair play. I have to give VDS every benifit of the doubt that he had good intentions. That however does not excuse the actions.

travisl Posted on Jan 30 2004, 11:31 PM Of course it makes sense to "confirm that VDS made a legal pickup". Of course in confirming that he made a legal pickup we would have to be able to confirm that he did not speed, and that he parked in the proper parking space while hurrying to get the cache, Because rule 2c states "All applicable laws, regulations, and rules shall apply, including but not limited to posted park hours, parking rules, and traffic laws." How are we going to confirm all of this. Why just confirm he obeyed the "building hours" from another website. Are we going to have to turn into Geo-cops in order to play this game? Do we have to scan all available websites before making a move? Of course not. We are using the info provided by the cache page. It is the ONLY fair way to run the game.

Foul, Foul, Foul!!! Naughty on you VDS!!! I'm a parent of four children. I can tell the second one of my kids has done something wrong because they start defending themselves before anyone says anything. That is exactly what VDS did, "Note - before going, I verified that I was ok re: park hours by consulting the Dumas Centre web site. " Obviously he was looking for an excuse to go when the official Geocaching web page states that park is closed "The park is open 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m." The rules for this game state very clearly "All applicable laws, regulations, and rules shall apply, including but not limited to posted park hours,..." I am sure there are enough websites out there to justify anything. VDS deliberately and consciously broke the rules, gave excuses to justify his actions, and expects to get away with it with no repercussions. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I call for the ref to award team south 10 points for team north deliberately breaking the rules of the game. This kind of disrespect for the game and the rules can not go unpunished. Swift reprocussions must be taken to keep this game in control.

I am ready to move the TB right now. However, from your last post on the forum it sounds like the north team can pick up the TB. I don't want to drive all the way out there to find that the TB has been moved by the north. I need to know what the ruling is. Can team north move the TB or not? Please advise ASAP

Good work TravisL on the boundries. It looks like the north team now has several more possible locations to try to stump the south. I'll see everyone tonight at the pre-game meeting.

I agree with weightman, let's use the Kitsap/Pierce county boarder the west boarder. This allows players from Kitsap and Pierce county to play in their backyard and no one will need to drive or take a ferry to Kitsap county. Seems fair all around.

Please include the peninsula. I thought this was King vs. Pierce county game. Lets keep those boarders. A lot of our team live on the penisula. We do have players who live in Bremerton, Ollala, etc. Let's make them feel welcomed too. If we take the boarders to the westerly Pierce county line then we have a better chance of getting more members involved since they would be closer to caches where the TB might be dropped off. One thing about caching is it takes you places you might not have gone otherwise. I live in Gig Harbor. It is beautiful out here. There are 44 caches within a five mile radius of my house. That is plenty for the game. My vote is to include the penisula for this "north/south" game.

My wife and I got a call from our local newspaper yesterday which will be writing an article about my geo-birthday celebration. There seems to be an interest in the sport. I'm doing everything I can do to promote the sport, and it's respect for the environment. If you are concerned there are too many cachers you might pick up bowling instead.

There is no theorizing here. It is all based on real life battery tests and real life battery costs. It has nothing to do with what my usage might be. It is a one to one comparison so it works for everyone's usage. The bottom line is alkalines cost fourteen times more and require over 2,000 batteries compared to one rechargable. That is all there is to it. Now that you are educated to the facts if you want to continue using up natural resources to make 2,070 batteries that could be replaced with one battery, then turn around and throw away that resource, and you want to spend fourteen times more, than that is up to you. I for one choose not to.

I guess the math can get away from one when we are talking about thousands of batteries. Let’s compare the cost of one rechargeable to the equivalent number of alkaline. According to the “Great Battery Shootout!” the best-rated alkaline battery lasts 3.66 hours compared to the best rated rechargeable which lasts 10.10 hours. The rechargeable can be recharged between 500-1,000 times. We’ll take the average of 750 times. 750 times 10.10 equal 7,575 hours. To get 7,575 hours of use from alkaline batteries you would have to buy 2,070 batteries. One rechargeable costs $3.50. Of course you need a recharging unit. Spreading the cost of a recharger over four batteries (typical recharger kits come with four batteries), you could add an additional $10 to the cost of the each battery, which brings it to $13.50 for 7,575 hours of use. One Costco brand alkaline cost 10 cents. 10 cents times 2,070 is $207. (Note: this is not the top rated alkaline per the test so they may end up costing more because they may not last as long.) You save $193.50 using rechargables. Alkalines cost fourteen times more than rechargables. Like I said in my other post, it is not about money, although people like to justify their expenditures. Not only do you save almost $200 but you save putting 2,070 batteries worth of mercury and all of the other contaminates into landfills. IMHO the only way for anyone who is economy or ecology minded is to go with rechargeables. edited: spelling

BEST BUY: Thanks to SandRaven for your post on where you get your batteries. You just saved me a lot of time and money. I did do my do diligence on this one though. Thomas Distributing http://thomasdistributing.com does have the best selection and prices. I just bought the MAHA brand C401FS charger with car adapter and 8 Powerex 2200 mAH batteries http://thomasdistributing.com/mhc401fs_buy.htm. It looked like the best deal for my needs. I added an additional 8 batteries because I use AA's for my headlamp, digicam, GPS. BEST BATTERY: Which battery brand last the longest? This test shows that the Maha brand Powerex 2200 outlasted all other tested products. It lasted over three times longer than the best alkaline battery. http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM ECO: I get batteries at "no cost". My wife has a fixed budget and whenever I need some more AA's she picks up a pack or 48 at Costco for around $10. It's not about the money. I go through between 4-8 batteries a week. Every time I threw batteries into the trash I got a knot in my stomach. As I researched the rechargeable NiMH batteries I found that they are "completely" recyclable, unlike the very bad non-rechargeable alkaline. COST: According to the above referenced test the Maha 2200mAH batteries lasted about 10 hours on one charge. You can charge them at least 500 times (up to 1000 times). That equals 5,000 hours of use. I paid about $4 per battery. So for $4 I get 5,000 hours of use, having to only throw one battery away when it’s dead. The Costco Alkaline batteries cost about 5 cents each. The best rated alkaline battery in the test lasted about 3 hours. In order to get 5,000 hours of use from an alkaline I would need buy 1,666 batteries at a cost of around $83. I also would have thrown away 1,666 batteries into landfill, and I am only one person! I paid $100 for sixteen 2200 mAH rechargeable batteries, which included a charger with DC cord. (I also got a free gift!) The equivalent in alkaline would have cost me $1,328 and I would have had to buy 26,656 batteries. The cheapest alkaline (Costco brand) costs ten times more than the highest rated (MAHA Powerex 2200) rechargeable NiMH battery. Even if there was no savings and it cost me a few bucks more I would buy the rechargables. Rechargeables: Better for the environment, last longer, more convenient (don't have to change them as often), cost ten times less, and I won't have to worry about buying another battery for at least four years (up to eight years). IMHO rechargeable are the ONLY way to go for me.

Pen&Card do NOT mix. Very bad idea. Can cause battery, battery charger damage and a fire.

BEST BUY: Thanks to SandRaven for your post on where you get your batteries. You just saved me a lot of time and money. I did do my do diligence on this one though. Thomas Distributing http://thomasdistributing.com does have the best selection and prices. I just bought the MAHA brand C401FS charger with car adapter and 8 Powerex 2200 mAH batteries http://thomasdistributing.com/mhc401fs_buy.htm. It looked like the best deal for my needs. I added an additional 8 batteries because I use AA's for my headlamp, digicam, GPS. BEST BATTERY: Which battery brand last the longest? This test shows that the Maha brand Powerex 2200 outlasted all other tested products. It lasted over three times longer than the best alkaline battery. http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM ECO: I get batteries at "no cost". My wife has a fixed budget and whenever I need some more AA's she picks up a pack or 48 at Costco for around $10. It's not about the money. I go through between 4-8 batteries a week. Every time I threw batteries into the trash I got a knot in my stomach. As I researched the rechargeable NiMH batteries I found that they are "completely" recyclable, unlike the very bad non-rechargeable alkaline. COST: According to the above referenced test the Maha 2200mAH batteries lasted about 10 hours on one charge. You can charge them at least 500 times (up to 1000 times). That equals 5,000 hours of use. I paid about $4 per battery. So for $4 I get 5,000 hours of use, having to only throw one battery away when it’s dead. The Costco Alkaline batteries cost about 5 cents each. The best rated alkaline battery in the test lasted about 3 hours. In order to get 5,000 hours of use from an alkaline I would need buy 1,666 batteries at a cost of around $83. I also would have thrown away 1,666 batteries into landfill, and I am only one person! I paid $100 for sixteen 2200 mAH rechargeable batteries, which included a charger with DC cord. (I also got a free gift!) The equivalent in alkaline would have cost me $1,328 and I would have had to buy 26,656 batteries. The cheapest alkaline (Costco brand) costs ten times more than the highest rated (MAHA Powerex 2200) rechargeable NiMH battery. Even if there was no savings and it cost me a few bucks more I would buy the rechargables. Rechargeables: Better for the environment, last longer, more convenient (don't have to change them as often), cost ten times less, and I won't have to worry about buying another battery for at least four years (up to eight years). IMHO rechargeable are the ONLY way to go for me.

BEST BUY: Thanks to SandRaven for your post on where you get your batteries. You just saved me a lot of time and money. I did do my do diligence on this one though. Thomas Distributing http://thomasdistributing.com does have the best selection and prices. I just bought the MAHA brand C401FS charger with car adapter and 8 Powerex 2200 mAH batteries http://thomasdistributing.com/mhc401fs_buy.htm. It looked like the best deal for my needs. I added an additional 8 batteries because I use AA's for my headlamp, digicam, GPS. BEST BATTERY: Which battery brand last the longest? This test shows that the Maha brand Powerex 2200 outlasted all other tested products. It lasted over three times longer than the best alkaline battery. http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM ECO: I get batteries at "no cost". My wife has a fixed budget and whenever I need some more AA's she picks up a pack or 48 at Costco for around $10. It's not about the money. I go through between 4-8 batteries a week. Every time I threw batteries into the trash I got a knot in my stomach. As I researched the rechargeable NiMH batteries I found that they are "completely" recyclable, unlike the very bad non-rechargeable alkaline. COST: According to the above referenced test the Maha 2200mAH batteries lasted about 10 hours on one charge. You can charge them at least 500 times (up to 1000 times). That equals 5,000 hours of use. I paid about $4 per battery. So for $4 I get 5,000 hours of use, having to only throw one battery away when it’s dead. The Costco Alkaline batteries cost about 5 cents each. The best rated alkaline battery in the test lasted about 3 hours. In order to get 5,000 hours of use from an alkaline I would need buy 1,666 batteries at a cost of around $83. I also would have thrown away 1,666 batteries into landfill, and I am only one person! I paid $100 for sixteen 2200 mAH rechargeable batteries, which included a charger with DC cord. (I also got a free gift!) The equivalent in alkaline would have cost me $1,328 and I would have had to buy 26,656 batteries. The cheapest alkaline (Costco brand) costs ten times more than the highest rated (MAHA Powerex 2200) rechargeable NiMH battery. Even if there was no savings and it cost me a few bucks more I would buy the rechargables. Rechargeables: Better for the environment, last longer, more convenient (don't have to change them as often), cost ten times less, and I won't have to worry about buying another battery for at least four years (up to eight years). IMHO rechargeable are the ONLY way to go for me.

I have used a FRS radio for years. When mine got stolen and I had to replace them the one thing that was TOP on the list was it had to have rechargable batteries and a drop in recharger so I didn't have to take them out to recharge. Re's don't last as long but are a whole lot more convienent. I like fresh batteries in my GPS just so I can get a better sattelite lock. Has anyone noticed once your batteries are down to about 50% you don't get a strong sat lock? When my batteries show 50% I replace them. I have a drawer full of partically charged AA's. In order to get the most for my money I figure someone else in the family can use them. I have a battery tester and test batteries every time I go to put them into a device. I wish someone made a GPSr that had re's and a drop in charger. I'd buy it in a heart beat. It took a while for the FRS radios to get there so I guess it will be a while for the GPSr too. I'm going out and buy some re's today and a charger for the house and car. I'll stick to just AA's since that is what I use the most. To me it's about cost and convenience. Using re's to replace half used Alcalines is more economical. Not having to check each battery before using it is more convienent. I know with a rechargable it is at full power when I take it out of the charger.

Your team members will change over time. I would recommend getting a radio that most people would buy so that everyone is compatable. I would recommend any Motorola model. If you are searching for the same cache than you will be close enough to each other that a 2 mile radio should work fine. If you are going to get a more powerful radio just make sure it is compatable with the less powerful of the same brand. I sold electronic equipment for years. I would not recommend getting anything made by Cobra. I know I'll get some flame for that from the two people in the world who bought them and won't change however, I would recommend staying away from them. IMO they don't transmit very far, or clear and are not compatable with Motorola.

I'm back from a two-day geo-campout with five twelve year old boy scouts. I just finished reading all the posts with this new thread. I am glad I came back once everyone had a chance to take a breath and relax. The boys and I had a GREAT time looking for and finding caches. We found six caches and had time for pizza too. We competed against each other in two teams. No name-calling, just fun. I hope we can continue to do the same here. A few thoughts: 1. Let's get things resolved on-line. That way everyone can "attend the meeting". At this point I don't see mixing alcohol with rule making at a pizza parlor a particularly good idea. At this point some people may not feel safe meeting face to face and therefore we would miss their input 2. Let's not cancel the game, unless one team quits. I think most people want to continue. Either team can win. No team ever plays a perfect game. If it were the first move that determined a winner I would never watch a football, basketball or baseball game. Let's keep playing. 3. From the many post I can see we have people who are available to move the TB 24/7, others work days, others work nights, others work weekends, etc. In order to let as many people play (and have fun) let's not black out any time as a "non-legal" time to move the TB. If I work graveyard that maybe the best time for me to drop off the TB. Let’s keep the game available to as many people as possible. 4. I think most everyone on the south's team thought hiding the TB inside a resealed MCToy was very ingenious. We also thought exchanging the entire cache was a great idea too. Time has shown us that if the TB is placed in a cache so it can be found, like any other item then swapping out the entire cache will not need to be done. 5. Placing the TB anywhere in the other teams territory, with no mileage restrictions is a great idea. One of the things I enjoy most about caching is going to new places. A mileage restriction removes a lot of the fun of caching for me. 6. Simple score keeping. Each team gets points for every drop in the other team's territory. The TB "has" to be moved from your territory within XXX hours, to allow both teams to continue to score and to encourage a "hot" potato. 7. A restriction for when a person can move the TB again once they have dropped it off is a great idea. They can move it again once XXX number of their team members have moved it. It lets, and encourages more team players to join in. 8. Let's encourage hand offs. Or you could even make a post saying, "I'm going to put the TB in ... cache at 1500. Anyone from either team is welcome to meet me there." Let's keep the spud hopping but not so fast we don't have time to meet our team or the "other" team members. It is always more fun playing with your friends than with strangers. 9. Start a Geo-anonymous. If you are getting in trouble from your geo-spouse because you are spending all your time at the computer, getting calls or leaving the house at O-dark-30 than turn off the computer, take the phone off the hook, hide your car keys, then turn on the TV and spend some quality time with your sweetheart. The amount of time you put into this game is totally voluntary. To this point I have REALLY enjoyed the hot potato game. I love the strategizing with my teammates, the late night drops, and meeting team members at hand offs. I hope to meet most if not all of the players from both teams in the near future, as friends either on the trails, or at a gathering. Keep on caching

We have a team member at the cache. He has gone through the cache several times. No TB. Just wanted to make sure the bug is INSIDE the cache. The last entry in the cache log book was from drinksmith.

Great idea guys. Can we ask the team captians to suggest this to their teams. TravisL What do you think about putting this suggestion on the bug log page? EDIT: Corrected spelling

Just so no one gets upset. Let's do our best to put the time in our bug logs, and make sure when we go to a cache we make a log at that time too. Is there a way to have the time put in automaticly in on the bug log page, like on this forum?

Jon, great coin! I have a really good cache on a great bike trail right by my house. I could help you place one there

Not only will you get the some consideration, in addition to that remember "we're buying"

Thank you gaviidae and Team North for understanding our intent. We wanted to move the game along and involve more players. Our error was in how to process the action. No ill was intented. Now with the clarifications both teams can move forward with proper hand-offs.

I can see where this could be a real problem. Someone/anyone may happen to come across the coin not knowing anything about the game and take it. We do not what that to happen. Best solution, for a hand-off, don't put it into any cache, logged or not logged.

The only flaw in the game that I see is the ending time. Someone might say it was rigged. I don't know if radio stations do this on the weekends but I know that during the week some of them have a "mystery song". If you call in when the song plays you win a prize. If we knew of a station doing that, or if the ref. could call into a station, explain what we were doing they might play along. Whenever the song plays the game is over. Who ever is holding the hot potato "looses". I know there are enough fun loving DJ's out there who would love to do that. It could also promote the sport to a wider audience. What do you think?