klaus23
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Posts posted by klaus23
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I tried my best on their website but can't seem to find reader's letters.
Hope you get a copy of the letter.
PS: I googled him too... seems to be a handy right-back, plays a spot of hockey as well
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Correct me if I'm daft, but is it not a pretty decent reflection of population density?
I mean, the mountains in Wales, lots of Devon and Northern Scotland have nothing.
In comparison, the south coast, London, the northern cities around Manchester/Liverpool and the 'M4' corridor of Bristol/Bath/Swindon/Reading can easily be spotted.
In Wales you can see Cardiff/Newport/Swansea and way up north, Newcastle-on-Tyne can be picked out easily.
(edited for geographical boo-boo)
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He did that, didn't like the answer he got there either I guess.
How can you comment on this when you have no idea what has happened? You're assuming I have a major issue when I don't.
As I said, two very minor discussions were had with the two UK admins. When I said non-productive, I mean that we never got to the meaningful dialogue stage. By that I mean that we did not put a solid case together, and thus a constructive discussion could never take place.
That's what I mean by non-productive.
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Volume isn't the issue.
Language isn't the issue.
Please, I'm being serious here, help us to understand why you feel Ireland cachers are not being served well under the current reviewers.
Is there a complex system of goverment permits required to hide a cache (like in some states in the US) that the current reviewers dont follow?
Are they approving illegal caches?
Are they showing bias against Irish cachers?
What's the issue that's so huge you need 2 more people to handle?
I truly do not see it.
Curiosity really is getting the better of you.
With all due respect, I cannot discuss specifics here.
This is out of repect and consideration for the members of my community with whom I am discussing this (in a closed forum, before you go looking). It is also out of respect for the UK Admins who I am not, under no circumstances, going to undermine in public.
It is also due to the fact that none of it has anything whatsoever to do with you.
Also, one of my friends from the Irish forums tested the water on one of these "general" forums by seeking advice about one specific issue we are hoping to address. The thread descended into nonsensical drivel before producing one, single authoritative answer.
Which is why all of this will not be discussed in public.
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The OP asked about how to choose your own reviewers and put them in power; my reply was it historically hasn't worked like that. Cant' get much more directly relevant then that.
I have added reviewers for other reasons, but those are each on a case by case basis.
You're right. You really can't get more directly relevant than that.
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This is what I was hoping to hear. Cheers Hydee.
'We' do expect to make a case at an undetermined point in the future.
The point of this thread was to see if anyone had been in the situation that 'we' feel we are in, where a community feels the need for a local approver. I do realise that in US terms, Ireland is not exactly busy in cache volume, and that this is the prime reason for adding an approver.
Since I now have a response from two people at Groundspeak, I am still hoping to speak to someone who has been in this situation before, to see if we even have a solid case to make.
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Klaus is obviously too prudent to mention that by far most of the british citizens are not able to speak or understand the Irish language (which might be seen as a major prerequisite for reviewing a cache in that language).
The Irish language (or Irish-Gaelic) is spoken fluently by less than 7% of the population.
There is also Ulster-Scots, which is recognised as a language and is spoken by less than 2% of the people on the island. To date there is not a single cache page written in the either language in Ireland.
Language, I'm afraid, does not enter into the discussion.
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Here's an idea. You tell us what you want to hear, and then we'll tell it back to you so you can hear it.
How about you read the post that started this whole thread. Does that apply to you or people in your area?
Thought not.
And Mopar...Mopar... (*sigh*)
This is not a coup-d'etat. I, personally, am not trying to become the Irish approver.
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I don't, however, think that 107 caches in a year is even remotely enough basis to warrant two new reviewers. If the volume of caches (England or Ireland) picks up, then I would say by all means to go and request people be added.
I'll quote myself:
I never mentioned volume, that was added to the discussion by Keystone Approver.I appreciate your position on the volume aspect. You're right, there's not a lot happening compared to other locations on the planet. I also appreciate that this is the only information that you have to hand and that this criteria (volume) is used in many areas as a factor in determining that another approver is needed.But there are other reasons why some of us feel that a local approver is needed (snip)
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"Like it or not" is a valid argument, especially when dealing with a private entity such as GC.com. If you don't like the way they do things, your choices are to learn to accept it, or find someplace else. Why is that concept so hard?
You're not listening at all, you're not reading my posts, you suffer from considerable bias and you're chastising me.
To date, I/we have not even started talking to gc.com about this. When this happens, we will not be speaking to you, and you will not be replying to our submission, so go and ask yourself what your flaming is trying to achieve.
In this thread, I have not criticised Groundspeak/Geocaching.com. I have not openly spoken about the vast majority of issues we are hoping to address. So that leaves you (without stating the obvious facts of a - you don't live on this side of the Atlantic and b - you only know 1% of the whole story) about as well-informed as Hans Blix.
Acceptance is one thing - but this will come once this has been discussed openly with TPTB. In YOUR opinion this is hopeless. I believe that to be nonsense.
I'm sure if you owned a company that was many times more successful then competing companies and someone didn't like the way you ran it you would tell them to get stuffed. I sure would.Without wishing to open a book on Business Management, perhaps that's the way you would do things. In places where I have worked (and managed), contributions and suggestions from employees were not only welcomed, they were rewarded.
The reverse psychology is - would you work for a company where nobody listened to you. No, you would not.
Why not take off the blinkers and actually focus what I am trying to discuss here. I have taken note of your opinion - and repeating oneself does not make you correct.
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As far as I know, there have NOT been any people who have selected their approver.
Do you know if any people were ever able to make a valid case for a dedicated approver in their area? The selection process would take place after such a need was identified.
Of course, after reading this furthur - you intitially asked on volume. If the second issue was THE issue, why not approach on that? It seems like you just want another approver, while that may not be the case.I never mentioned volume, that was added to the discussion by Keystone Approver.
The second issue I mentioned is one of a growing list. It was just used as a random example.
I don't just want another approver. There has been rational discussion on this amongst people in Ireland. It hasn't been for irrational reasons, the conversation has developed out of Irish geocaching.com members' concern for the game on their island.
This has nothing to do with autonomy or personal gain, and everything to do with the best interests of geocaching in Ireland.
One of the things Mopar mentioned was local laws. How can a moderator/approver be aware of local laws when they do not live in the country where these apply?
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Apart from Mopar, who A - advocates that I will not be able to find the answers I am looking for 'here' and then B - proceeds to lecture me on what he thinks anyway (with considerable bias towards the powers that be), can anyone add something more constructive to this.
I'm sick of people's only argument being "that's the way it is, like it or not".
This topic is moving off-topic but there has been some valuable insights from people.
I'll leave the thread open to see how things go.
edited for spelling
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Based on this - I would say the "General Forum" is not the place for this thread. The "Geocaching.com Website" might be more appropriate - but I feel that if this is something that British GC.com approvers have discussed with locals in your area - and are in agreement with you - this should be handled internally.
Hang on... this is not what is being discussed here. I am looking to hear from people who have already gone through this process - and not looking to go through it just yet.
We (I initially, then another community member) approached the British approvers but were rebuffed. However, my initial approach was a simple query rejected on volume levels, and the second ended in semantics and dissection of individual caches, and neither were very productive.
Emailing Hydee and/or contact@ would probably be a better way to go about thisWhich will be done, in time.
You're VERY likely to see people start arguing the sides of the problems that are the causes of the "problems" in your country. (No offense meant).I know what you mean, and I am not going to encourage discussion on the matter, and hope others do not follow this path. However, a reason I chose to post here was because this area of the forums are frequented by US cachers who's immediate focus on the issue I am highlighting would not be political.
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There's been a grand total of 45 caches submitted thus far in 2005 for all of Ireland. Most reviewers handle that many in an average WEEK, and in some places, 45 caches is called "Monday."
Based solely on volume, I am not sure I see the issue here, especially as you say you're getting good service from the very capable volunteers based just across the Irish Sea.
I appreciate your position on the volume aspect. You're right, there's not a lot happening compared to other locations on the planet. I also appreciate that this is the only information that you have to hand and that this criteria (volume) is used in many areas as a factor in determining that another approver is needed.
But there are other reasons why some of us feel that a local approver is needed and why we would, in the future and after internal discussions and discussions with the admins in Britain, like to have a formal discussion with Groundspeak on the matter.
Again, I highlight that this is not an attempt to underline the status quo, and I am really looking for experiences that people had in this situation previously. The thread is not meant to be following a "we're looking for an approver" agenda.
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maybe there is something deeper going on here.....maybe its an israeli/palestinian kinda thing that we americans are unable to fully comprehend?!?
No, this is not a question of politics. Absolutely not.
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Look, I've done my homework already and have done searches before posting this and yes, I have read those threads.
Without wanting to get too specific, there is a quote from someone in the first linked thread that reads:
he approvers are volunteers who have a lot of knowledge about caching and any special regulations in their areaWhat if the approvers in my area had no knowledge of specialist regulations in my country as they live and cache in a different one, had no contact whatsoever with local heritage/environmental/government bodies and organisations in my country?
AND
had also approval rights over an area where a situation akin to civil war existed up to 1994 and where tensions are still bubbling. Cache placement in parts of Northern Ireland could be very sensitive indeed, and the authorisations are best left to a local person aware of local sensitivites.
(edited for clarification - the above point is not the main issue at hand. It is one of several which I chose to highlight)
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Some problems and pitfalls. First if the approver proves to be unable to do the job the listing site (and local group) needs to be able to remove them from the job.
I guess if discussions were opened with Groundspeak the community would propose a candidate which would have to be agreed upon by the powers that be. Or in reverse, Groundspeak (or the current admins) highlight a person who they feel could carry out the task. If both parties cannot agree on a suitable candidate, the discussion would unfortunately have to be shelved until such a person can be found.
Next if the local organization falls out of favor and another one is created which one is legitmate? Will approvers be willing to work for all lisitng sites or just the one they like?I'm not exactly sure what you mean but I'll interpret the point and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
The current local organisation is a group that evolved from a mailing list into a website and fully fledged forums. Most of the current members of this forum are active cachers based in Ireland and represent, at an estimate, 60% of the community. The other active cachers are aware of the forums and the site but, as they are free to do, keep themselves to themselves.
I would dare to say that Ireland is too small to sustain another local focus group, but let's assume that two admins were elected after discussion with Groundspeak. A split develops between the current site and a group set up another focus group/seperate website. At this point, should they have objections to the elected admins it would have to go through Groundspeak, as these things currently do.
There is, at present, no alternative cache listing site for Ireland, and there are no caches in the county listed on Navicache or Terracaching, or any other sites that I am aware of.
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Can someone else add something more constructive and importantly, directly relevant to the questions I have posed. (referring to Mopar)
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I'm Klaus23 from Ireland.
The community here is currently in discussion to establish if there are wants and needs for dedicated, Irish-resident approvers/moderators - ideally two candidates, one based within the Republic of Ireland and another within Northern Ireland (still under British jurisdiction) - but with both interacting, and treating the island of Ireland as a geographical entity.
Ireland (north and south) is currently moderated by two administrators based in Britain. I am not calling their performance into question, as they have done a superb job. There is just a growing feeling that members within our community that a locally based and focused admin might be better.
I am looking to hear from communities worldwide who may have proceeded in a similar manner such as we would be hoping to do in the future.
Ideally, you would have had a small community in your state/country to begin, followed by a growing but focused community, with the establishment of an association/forum group/local website, and then would have approached Groundspeak and made a representation on why you felt that the community in your area wanted or needed a dedicated approver.
I would be interested to hear from you.
If you do not want to air your views in this thread, please feel free to e-mail me through my profile. I also have MSN IM (listed on my profile) should you wish to use that medium. Please e-mail me first through my profile to advise you have added me as a contact.
Also, this thread is not a venue for anti-Groundspeak/current approver/The Frog/whatever else diatribe. I am looking for mature and focused discussion. If you have had negative experiences and are posting in response to this thread please be concise and importantly... caaaalm
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Bummer... sadly I can't make it down that day (30th) as I am finishing work on the 29th prior to my relocation to the UK and no doubt there'll be a few drinks to mark the occasion. Also, my girlfriend is coming over from Bristol to help me with the move, so it's likely the 30th will be spent driving to the airport.
Best of luck with it. It's not the hardest cache in the world. I would have a slight concern about you going on your own, but realistically, it's a busy mountain and this time of year, on a weekend, there would be plenty of other climbers out on the route, God forbid, should anything happen.
It was last found a couple of weeks back, and reported as being in place, and dry
There is one very easy cache in Killarney town, Ninestar006, one in the nearby scenic Gap of Dunloe, and if you're going to Kerry you'd be silly not to drive the Ring of Kerry , and visit the three caches en route (clockwise) = Caragh View , the mesmerising Atlantic Whirlpool and Ring of Vinnie1 .
Let me know if you need any directions or other general tourist advice
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I'll have to remember to note the phone number at Cronin's Farmyard though, and I'll make every effort to do that.
Ha HARR!
I knew there was a reason why you were going to Kerry!
What day are you climbing?
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Believe it or not, I managed to spot this on my Christmas holidays near Bristol last year. Although the photos were taken on the Welsh coast near Barry, it was visible from Weston-Super-Mare, where we were walking at the time.
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stick with it klaus, the sw has loads so no need for the long drives. where you going?
I'll be based in or around Portishead, SW of Bristol. Not far from the M5 and a short drive to either Exmoor or the Brecon Beacons. Looking forward to some new walks and doing some caching.
must have cost a fortune!25,000 miles @ ca. 1 euro per 10 miles = 2500 euro
Set of Dunlop SP1's = 190 euro
Oil/Filter changes *4 (at home) = 240 euro
Major Service = 200 euro
Bodywork and paint after minor ding while caching = 350 euro
Total = 3480 euro (£stg 2391)
*shudders*
I hope you have someone lined up to take over your caches - they look excellent!Thanks for the kind comment - yes, I have agents all over the island lined up to look after my caches should something happen. Make sure you get in touch with everyone on the geocachingireland.com forums before you go - you may even find a willing tourist guide. I'd love to make it to the IOM sometime soon, sadly the ferry company's prices are a little steep.
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Bonjour,
A mon avis, il n'y a pas beaucoup des geocacheurs en France, et peut-etre ca c'est la raison pour l'absence des personnes qui parlent Francais sur cette Forum.
Je sais pas si il y a un autre forum seulement en Francais, mais si vous avez des questions, je sais un geocacheur dans l'Alsace qui peut pouvoir vous aider.
Son 'nom' est 'sTeamTraen'.
Bon chance avec votre nouveau passe-temps!
Meilleurs salutacions de l'Irlande
Taking A Parting Shot
in General geocaching topics
Posted
I don't consider that a parting shot. That was a civil response to the last post you made, and since the thread was going nowhere I closed it.
I've had a long trawl back through your posts Mopar. It seems you seek confrontation in just about every thread you enter. In some cases you are downright abusive. What's the point?
I'm sorry, I resent being mentioned within this thread. There was no parting shot taken.
It just annoys you that the discussion is closed as far as I am concerned.