_Shaddow_

I don't know Molly or why you even bring her up but I've seen lots of geotrails to lots of caches so I'm going to guess that they are out there in places. To me it's obvious that virtuals and ECs would have much less impact since people are poking around the same areas over and over and over again looking for the cache, instead they roam about the general area somewhat randomly. It's the intensive ground beating that causes issues. For example, the ground compacts making it difficult for plants to grow - that is why plants don't grow on trails. How about you don't blast the BLM? You parting shot will only make things harder for the rest of us you leave in your dust

Oh, ummm . Sorry about that. I agree with TotemLake, that's the main reason that most people I know tell me that they don't come back. People can be nasty in here, without a need for it. Basically most of the nice people want nice conversations and when it gets nasty they leave to get away from it. Not sure what the says about us that remain lol Though I disagree about 'these days' implying that it's gotten worse. Refer: Godwin's law from 1990 But, of course, Godwin's law was referring to the wild unmoderated usenet groups. But it does have application to forums. I might have missed it but this regional forum seems fairly, well, nice. Some other forums on this board get a bit wooly, but given the OP was asking about this forum in particular, not forums in general, do you have instances where the conversation got nasty in this forum? True but what you are also saying is it gets bad to the point where mom or dad says stop it. So it still heads that direction... Granted that isn't too bad compared to some places and for the most part, it's nice. But the un-nice is still going on, especially when they're here for a touchy subject, like a question about a log or something. And it doesn't have to get very bad for people to want to be somewhere else. And sure the NW forum is nicer on the surface than others, I agree, but only because instead of people acting aggressive they act passive-aggressive. People here try to seem nice even when they're really being mean. It's happened to me several times, there are a few bullies in here. I stuck to my guns which is why I'm still here rather then have left myself. I understand you want some backup of what I'm saying, and I understand if you don't take me for my word, but I'm not going to go back and dig it up. More about using my time elsewhere than fear that I'm full of it, though that is always a possibility. [edited for spelling, then reedited to add this note]

Oh, ummm . Sorry about that. I agree with TotemLake, that's the main reason that most people I know tell me that they don't come back. People can be nasty in here, without a need for it. Basically most of the nice people want nice conversations and when it gets nasty they leave to get away from it. Not sure what the says about us that remain lol Though I disagree about 'these days' implying that it's gotten worse. Refer: Godwin's law from 1990

We had a very good time, thanks for putting this together!

Perfect! Thanks

Is this your event? Nope, but as per the open post: Sounds optional to me... Clearly the event is about paddling down the river. Let the CO respond please. I was just repeating what they said before you asked the question. But I guess you need them to repeat themselves... None of your posts have been very helpful, in fact you seem to be trolling.

Sounds good, thanks for the info, I missed it on the page. We'll plan to show up at the posted time. Thanks for reconsidering the T rating and updating, it seems to fit much better now. Regarding the shuttling, is that something that seems to workout well on the fly once we're there or should we try to coordinate directly with someone else ahead of time?

Is this your event? Nope, but as per the open post: Sounds optional to me... Clearly the event is about paddling down the river. Let the CO respond please.

The paddling is optional, you can just join in on the shore and never get wet. Is this your event?

Wow, this looks fantastic! We are definitely trying to make it I'm wondering about the put in and take out locations and how we get back to our rigs. Should we provide our own shuttling if we bring our own craft? Looks like there is a training session for those using the guide service which is something those with our own craft might want to pass on. Is it longer than a few minutes? Also about the terrain rating, seems like it should be T5 like all paddle caches, especially for those bringing their own craft, like we would. What's the thinking behind the 1 star T?

Yes, it is an issue, one well known to GS, not only that it's being done, but who is doing it I've been ordered by forum moderators not to discuss it any more here but you can look at these http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=289166&st=0&p=4958873&fromsearch=1entry4958873 http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=270367&st=0 Also go to WSGA and search the topics there

NW Trails and NW Topos are extremely valuable to, and put to good use by, myself and almost everyone I know that hikes including many of us that are in the SAR community. Thank you so much for all your hard work on this project. Happy Birthday!

No word from jholly, anyone else interested in it? If no one wants it then I'll probably put it back into caches or create one

I actually started this topic to hopefully find someone to give my collection. Would you be interested? And we still need to meet up to add to your collection. I didn't say that I wouldn't be keeping a couple of items

I actually started this topic to hopefully find someone to give my collection. Would you be interested?

The mind is what goes first...

What a great idea! And a great hike, one of my favs. Unfortunately I can't make it though. Maybe the next one!

Finally got some time to take pictures and figure out how to upload I actually found these very neat ones since I first posted

I don't think so. Knee high when I did it maybe a month ago. When I found this years ago it was out of my reach and I'm average height. I'm guessing that it's migrated...

Thanks TL. I'm still waiting for a response from RockRabbit... If I don't hear from her by the end of the weekend I'll either retry or bump it up a level Did you find one? I'll have to take you up on that sometime

Thank you very much; I just reactivated it. I have an idea for a better placement but would take a bit of effort in crafting and been very busy so put it off and off and off... Hopefully this will hold for a while until I can find the time I see ignoring the situation and not acknowledging the cache thief as two different points of view. You don't want to ignore the situation but at the same time you don't want to directly acknowledge the cache thief. Putting on cache page "There is a cache thief in the area" is only going to feed their ego, if that is their motivation. I'd word it something like "This cache is frequently going missing". Although if cachers check the logs they will see this. Whatever their motivation it is best to just keep going on like everything is normal. Which it is because caches go missing all the time. Because of this there is a process for reporting missing caches and replacing them. I can see that. In point of fact, without the motivation, or at least some pep at all from them acknowledging the thefts, I can't be sure that it's just one person. Still, it's clear that it's not just missing but taken, and targeted. I think that needs to be explained otherwise searchers just have to guess the why. The first place my guessing would go is somewhere along the line of 'the co should find a better hiding spot, he sure is lazy' etc. I can see the benefit of not directly acknowledging the person doing the poor behavior, treat them like a young child, but not to discuss the behavior and pretend it doesn't exist would be like being a bad parent. I'll think on this a bit too, see if I come to a different perspective. I can understand this opinion. Just for some insight into another opinion: We used to have a thread on these forums to point out people posting bad things on these forums. After a while it starting becoming evident that the more we pointed the behavior out the worse it got. You may not realize, but the main English speaking forums here are just moderated in the day. Things got so bad, with really horrific things being posted that they had to have 24 hour moderation. This was not simple swearing, but things like photos that I will never forget and no one should ever have to see. Real photos that were nightmare material. So we discussed this at length and pointed it out in this thread. The behavior became constant. At some point the thread owner brought up the fact we could be encouraging it. I didn't think so. Then someone linked to some forums on a competing site where people talked at length about doing bad behavior for the attention. We all agreed to close the thread discussing the bad posting. That was the end of that behavior. There were no more of those posts. For me, it was a big lesson learned at the time. I did not believe we could be encouraging it by just talking about it, but it turns out we were. Sounds like topical internet trolls. Their only goal is the size and quality of the reaction. I highly doubt that is the cache thief's goal as they would target much more popular and visited caches to maximize the reaction. My cache is just a random one in a random spot, most likely just hitting it because it is easiest for them in time and effort. Still don't get their motives though, and I don't really care at this point either.

Excellent thank you. I've sent a request to RockRabbit asking to unarchive both of them. BTW for the south cache, I'm open to a new nearby location if you find a better one (though on the north I like the location and it's one that would allow snow finds) FYI that logs on my halfway cache say that there is a lot of blow down on right to the cache, the old 'easy' way, so probably best to hit it directly from the trail below. Have fun!

I'd like to see you get it on shoes, you've definitely earned it Thanks TL, I'll be sure to return the favor or pass along the karma

PCT Point of Entry Snoqualmie Pass North PCT Point of Entry Snoqualmie Pass South I'm going to try and bring these back, people really like these because they can say that they were on the PCT while visiting WA State. If I do, and then you do, I could get you loaded containers ready to go and figure out how to get them to you. I do live in Totem Lake after all... Maybe you guys might consider a summer run on Halfway To Kendall Katwalk? Though I placed it so it can be found in the winter and mentioned it in the description, that one was never intended to be a snowshoe cache, it's just that I noticed a lot of people like to shoe the general area and thought I'd make all the caches I placed up here available for winter finds. It has been quite a 'fun' one though hasn't it?!

That's what car pools are for! Maybe we can plan a hike to go check on Shaddow's caches. I'm liking this idea. I'd like to make a first for the HOTM series and call this a cache maintenance run for the hiders that made this Hike of the Month event possible all these years. I also have the OK to borrow my wife's Subaru which is a tough little car but I'll have to take it easy on it as the solo vehicle. So here's the sketch: Let's plan for the 29th and build a list of the high risk caches we need to focus on. It looks like we have a tentative OK from Shaddow to check on his caches and I'll point him to this thread to give us the nod. Other caches we'll need to get the CO's OK prior to taking them on so we don't step on any toes. Start Time to be determined by Wednesday next week after we know how many caches we'll be going after. This could be a long day. The answer would be a grateful yes though I've archived all three affected caches. Two I'm thinking about seeing if I can bring back but not 100% decided on that yet, those would be the two PCT Trailhead caches both which are minutes from the respective parking areas so won't make much of a hike anyway.