T-storm

quote:Originally posted by tahoeberne:The cacher was notified via email by ski3pin, the remover, that his cache was removed David-- I got that, but what I wondered is why the ranger, presumably someone who already has a geocaching.com account, didn't contact the cache hider(s) to come pick up their caches out of the woods FIRST instead of involving a third party. It just seems like the reasonable first step. Give the hider a set period of time to go pull their cache and archive the listing before taking further action. Oh well, we'll may never know. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Thanks, ClayJar. I had asked someone else later and all they could suggest was to find it via the search function and then copy the URL once it loaded the found message. Good to know another way. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Depending on your pleasure, either edit your picture by "smudging" the number on the tag or take a new one where the number doesn't show. Delete the old pic from the TB page and upload and activate your new/editted one. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

You know, something just occurred to me, and I don't know why it didn't earlier. The story is that a ranger involved is a casual cacher. So if the policy or regulation either one is that caches aren't allowed in the wilderness area, or they decided, whether or not at ski3pin's prompting, that they wanted the caches in the wilderness area removed... why didn't the ranger himself: E-mail the cache hider and ask him/her to remove the cache and archive the listing? Of course, I suppose we have no way to know he didn't. Post a note log on the cache stating his authority and requesting the cache be removed and archived. Or how about using the &quotthis cache should be archived&quot option? Send e-mail to the contact addy and explain the cache was in an inappropriate area and request that Jeremy take some sort of action. I recently was contacted by a ranger who had picked up a cache he said was placed in a restricted area of the park for which he is responsible. He had my contact info due to my permit for placement of a cache in another park within his unit. He had e-mailed the contact addy but was looking for an e-mail addy for the cacher because he didn't wish to register in order to view profiles or post a log. He was not against caches in open access areas of the park and was offering to return the cache to the hider. What a contrast. Just stuff to ponder. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Last year around Thanksgiving we were scoping out a marked public nature/forestry trail for possible cache location. It is on a 16 acre piece of forested land along a US highway owned by the state Forestry Association. As we exited the trail, a truck parked behind ours and 2 guys popped out and pulled out their shotguns. They asked us if we'd seen any deer. We left the area quickly. I have also seen a ton of spent shotgun shells on the ground on Army Corps of Engineers land/trails specifically marked &quotNo Firearms&quot. The person who reminds that a no hunting area is still not guaranteed safe is right on. I would suggest that anyone caching in an area that may provide animal/hunting cover wear hunter orange during hunting seasons. Don't forget that your backpack may cover a significant area of your safety color, so plan to mark it as well. Consider asking park managers if hunters might be in the area as you enter. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

quote:Originally posted by GeoManhattan:This isn't a finial this is a bucket. "We are working on the finial art work for the Click Cache Bucket, the pictures to the left are only prototypes." &quotWe are working on the finale art work for the Click Cache Bucket, the pictures to the left are only prototypes.&quot This (TA-DA!!!) is a finale! He he he... sorry, GPS Junkie, spell check can't always save you! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

quote:Originally posted by VentureForth:There is no state-wide policy prohibiting geocaching in State parks. However, prudence dictates that we seek permission from Park Managers or rangers. This does two things: 1) Creates a relationship between the geocaching community, and 2) Prevents the hider from getting fined if they place a cache in a sensitive area. VF is right about there being no specific prohibition of caching, but if you are placing any sort of physical cache in a Texas State Park, failure to get permission could result in a misdemeanor fine. See my post in this forum for details and the proper citation and web location of same. I think that VF's initiative in getting permission from a state park paved the way for others to succeed. I also think that feeling that they had a reasonable chance of a positive response has opened a lot of cachers to taking the time and responsibility to ask. I see more and more cache listings in TX state parks that specifically say they were placed with permission. Happy Caching in your local State Parks! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Or as you might hear it called in the southern US, poke salad or poke salat. My grandfather loved to eat it. It DOES contain toxins, but they are reduced by cooking the leaves well and eating younger leaves rather than mature leaves. For info see: http://www.aces.edu/dept/extcomm/newspaper/june21b02.html T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

If it's going to be an extended multi to draw seekers along the intended path, try mixing up multiple ideas or pick a theme and construct a story around it to keep it interesting. Here's an example of a multi wrapped around it. Things you can switch around include container types for clues, using simple puzzles or code translation to yield a set of coords, going with a letterbox or orienteering method of directing the cacher to the next stage instead of coordinates, methods of concealment and of course many others. Have fun! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

quote:Originally posted by Criminal:Again, it all misses the point. Almost ALL geocaches are in some way or another, illegal, (as in against the rules or against the law) because for the vast majority of them, no permission was ever obtained. It's pointless to argue the legal aspects. The real question is, was this person "right" for taking that which does not belong to her? I say NO. I'm with BrianSnat on this. I don't think that lack of specific permission means the cache is illegally placed. I don't think it's pointless to argue the legal points. I think they are an important part of the conversation. If we could find, for instance, the code a ranger seems to have cited to TahoeBerne and it clearly prohibited the kind of activity required to set a cache, then I believe that complaining about ski3pin is not entirely fair. If she did not, as some have supposed, point out to authorities that caches were placed in the NWA but rather they noticed, knew she was a cacher and asked her to pick them up (seems possible given the info that the ranger is a casual cacher), then complaining about her actions is not entirely fair. Could she have contacted the cachers? Sure. For that matter, do we know for sure that she didn't try? I'm surely not thrilled with the way this whole situation appears to have come down. But we still don't have all the details either. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

quote:Originally posted by umc:Part of the problem I see here is that all this mention of asking for permission someone is going to talk their way right in to making that mandatory for all caches placed which will bring things down. I don't know how that would be enforced but I'm sure someone inventive enough will figure it out. So can we please stop arguing that issue. I see it from 180 degrees. I think that where geocachers make no attempt to obtain acceptance/permission from land managers they risk creating an enemy for all cachers. Use Georgia State Parks as an example. As I understand it, the Parks dept. there became aware of caches and didn't care for some of the cache contents they found so an anti-caching policy was established. Don't know if they went so far as to write code to support it. No one likes to find out that they have been unaware of something within their purview, especially when there's some sort of flap over it. They tend to feel that it makes them look bad and sometimes vigorous irradication of the offending bit occurs. Like they decide to ban caches. And maybe even sponsor code to provide a force-of-law ban rather than a simple policy of prohibition. And then pursue removing caches and fining (or worse) cachers. No, it's not easy to get code in place to specifically allow something or to change a coded prohibition. I've been a part of an effort to do this kind of thing before, and it took YEARS, lots of worker bee types and even scientific studies to get it done. Often folks in these administrative positions DON'T want to mess with it because they recognize the effort it will take on their part as well and they may be underfunded and understaffed for making that effort. Not to mention how afraid folks are of liability and litigation these days. So if the administrator you approach or the boss they go to for support/confirmation/approval/CYA feels that they have to obtain or change code to give you the go-ahead things could get complex. But some land managers are going to be darned glad that you gave it the thought and effort and tried to understand their position as resource managers, and some of them are going to say YES. There has been great success in Texas State Parks so far and with Army Corps of Engineers in the north Texas area. I'll continue to ask. I haven't been told no yet, and when I someday am, I'll do my best to work to change minds and minimize the impact of that refusal. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:We all know that Geocaching is banned in National Parks. There is some question as to what is a National Park... One other worthwhile tidbit to add is that (I think) NPS is under the Department of the Interior and USFS is under the Department of Agriculture. Hence the refs in the Wilderness Act to the two agencies working together. Oops, Brokenwing already said that. Echo.. echo... echo.... T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching [This message was edited by T-storm on October 23, 2002 at 08:04 PM.]

I am not commenting on whether or not caches belong in a National Wilderness Area at this point and I am not commenting on the behavior of the cache placers or ski3pin. I wanted to address the citation from the Wilderness Act quoted by BrianSnat. It says: Nothing in this Act shall prevent within national forest wilderness areas any activity, including prospecting, for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources I added the emphasis of course. No activity connected with evaluating mineral or other resources is disallowed. It doesn't say every activity is allowed. For instance, motor vehicle use or commercial enterprise are specifically prohibited. I have not finished reading the act yet, nor have I even attempted to read related laws and regulations that are able to be legally drafted by the administrative agencies for the purpose of carrying out the agencies' defined functions. I have not yet gotten to the code most likely being cited as banning of caching activity. This being the case, I am certainly NOT saying that such code will not be something completely open to interpretations. I'm just saying that the citation BrianSnat offered is NOT the one that pulls our bacon out of the fire. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

The reason for adopting a cache is that being listed as an owner or admin is the only way to be able to edit the cache listing. What if the coords are off? What if the cache, its stages or clues must be physically changed in order to maintain it, thus making the listing inaccurate? Certainly nothing wrong with wiping a &quotsnotty nose&quot by doing small cache maintenance tasks, but sometimes that's not all that's wrong. I've done both and am happy with my choices in both types of situations. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

One of the very productive approvers in currently out of pocket and since there are just a very few, that creates a longer wait time. By the way, it isn't true that none have been approved since 10/20. My cache partner is an admin/approver and I know he spent a fair amount of time yesterday reviewing cache listings. Sometimes a cache takes longer to approve than others... if the admins have some sort of concern, they may discuss amongst themselves before offering an opinion. Or sometimes a question may come up that is best handled by an admin from a particular geographic area. Or maybe your cache was just farther down the list than several that took longer than average to review and so you're still waiting! Hang in there... it's an all volunteer crew that don't really get anything but the satisfaction of helping out for their time and sometimes trouble! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Hang in there and be patient. I had a bug sitting in a cache in Colorado for 4 months or more. The cache was even visited several times over that period! Now that bug is very close to his goal (less than 200 miles), so overall I'm pretty pleased. A year in the field without going AWOL plus near his goal. How can I complain? T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

I haven't decided yet what I think of the concept of somehow marking caches that are considered either abandoned or up for adoption, thus no reply until now. However, I HAVE adopted a cache through a process that did NOT involve the owner. The cache was one that I had found about a month after it was placed. It was kinda difficult to figure out for all who sought it apparently. Then someone made clear from their posts that they couldn't even find the first stage, nor the backup clues either... no way to progress on the cache. They had tried repeatedly to contact the cache owner with no results. I approached this cacher and offered to go with her to see if the stages were really missing or if she was just not finding them. We found that the first stage was gone and were unable to find the alternate clue. I led her to the area of the second clue and she found it and the cache successfully. I both posted a note to the cache listing stating what we had done and e-mailed the owner and when no response was forthcoming I posted a note of my intention to ask Jeremy if I could adopt the cache. No response. So a week later I e-mailed again. No response. I sent Jeremy the whole story and told him how I thought a good adventure was going to be lost and how the cache was not findable as it existed. He attempted to contact the owner and posted a note of intention to turn the cache over to me. A week later it was mine. I set up a first stage and clues not so likely to disappear as the originals and editted the listing and it was mine. I did retain the original owner's ID in the "by" field along with mine in way of credit where credit was due and sent a message telling him that if he became able to care for it in the next couple of months to contact me. He didn't, so I went ahead and got after-the-fact permission for the placement. After going through that process I have to say I wouldn't want to give it back, but then I've never even been contacted by the original owner. So it can be done, but you may have to make a significant effort to prove that the owner is unresponsive and then wait for Groundspeak to do the same. It sort of became a trend around here, and I know of at least 3 other cachers locally who have made a point of adopting orphaned caches or pushing to have them archived if they are trashed and in a bad location. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

It just wasn't that slow here. When I started playing in July 2001 there were 38 caches within 130 miles of home. Now there are 460 within 100 miles. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

WHOO-HOO!!! http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Well, I probably shouldn't have even filled in a poll, but I voted other. For the reason other folks have noted... I set more than one type of cache. I have a kids' cache, so I selected a site close to a good little kids' playground with toilet facilities and kept the walk as short as possible. The actual hide is not pretty obvious to cachers, I would think, but it tries to blend with the surroundings because it IS in a park traveled by LOTS of children and was trashed in its first location. Then I have 2 that are in lesser used, undeveloped park lands that require longer walks. One is not tough to find your way to, but the hiding spot is a touch sneaky even though it's pretty clear it MUST be in there somewhere. The other is my toughie, and I get lots of not founds or multi-attempts on it. I feel good about that because I WANTED it to be hard. It is a multi-cache with very limited info on how to complete the interim stage(s). One must think carefully and take a step outside their average cache hunting experience to figure it out, but there are several that have solved it too. When it comes to seeking the actual physical cache, it isn't hard at all to figure out where the box is, but the opportunity exists to see all sorts of natural beauty if one takes the time. There are a plethora of 1/1-2 caches around me and it's growing all the time. The cache was originally placed by a now absent cacher and I adopted it. I didn't want to see it go because it WAS tough. Part of the original difficulty lay in the fact that it was listed as a regular cache (it's a multi), it had some sneaky thrown in, and the listing had grammar and sentence structure that made it difficult to follow. I changed the approach to some stages and completely replaced the clues with more permanent ones intended to do nothing more than help a cacher move on to the next to last stage if an earlier stage disappeared. They still HAVE to figure out the sneaky part to complete the cache. If e-mailed, I will offer a couple of small hints to help the cacher refocus their search thought process. As I see it, why construct a more difficult cache if you're going to turn around and lead seekers to it by the nose? The response by a non-finder or two (that have not asked for help except that I check the cache-- it's intact) seems to be somewhat frustrated or annoyed. But for those who solve it, particularly after having to make a second attempt, I think they really enjoyed the sense of accomplishment from figuring it out. I know I did! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

We have them all over here too. Two of them close enough to pick up food on the way to the house and have it still be warm. The old slogan used to be quote:service with the speed of sound or something like that. Sonic is Geoferret's favorite fastfood place. Of course, offer her a choice between that and Chili's and Sonic loses out! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

VF-- I've read this thread, but I'm not sure I've sorted it out properly. Where is it that Darth needs to wind up? If it helps, I'm headed to Atlanta/northern GA the week before Thanksgiving... about 5 weeks from now. I could drop him in a cache there if it helps. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

I got a call today from a park ranger in the Army Corps of Engineers about another person's cache which they needed to pull. He was seeking help to contact the cacher, and I provided it. This was a really neat thing for me as it came about from my efforts to get permission for caches I placed at two other ACE projects. They appreciated the communication and when they had a concern with a cache they didn't over-react and in fact seem to be quite friendly to our sport. Read the whole story at http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=7440994635 Sorry, I don't know how to anchor it to the note in question, but it's my second post in that thread. T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

I know this thread is populated by those who have asked permission and must therefore believe that permissions and a good relationship with park managers is important, but let me share a little story with you about exactly HOW important it is. About an hour ago I got a phone call from a park ranger responsible for one of the Army Corp of Engineers projects here in Texas. He had gotten my phone number from another ACE ranger at a different project. You see, as I stated above, I have used letters asking permission and generally describing geocaching combined with documents specifically describing my planned cache to get permission for 2 ACE placements. Unknown to me, the ranger contacted for the second of these shared all of this information with his boss and all of the rangers at other ACE projects for which his boss is responsible. I knew I had my permission, but I never realized how tickled pink they were that I had asked! The ranger who called today said the activity sounds like great fun and that their view is that they manage public lands used for public recreation and this is simply our form of recreation, just as boating or fishing would be. They only seek to help us do it safely. So the reason for his call today? He has found a cache in the project he manages that was placed in a restricted area, clearly marked as restricted, and even such a place that it could be perceived as a security risk. He has removed it and wanted to know if I could help him contact the cache owner so that they could pick it up. He was not angry, vindictive or prone to believe that all caches should be yanked or that action needs to be taken against the cache hider or those who have logged it. Instead he was very friendly and said at one point, &quotWe think it sounds like a great sport but it would be really nice if everyone gave us the kind of information you did.&quot He really seemed to be bending over backwards to stress that they're not freaking out and that caching on ACE lands is cool with them. Moral of the story? MAKE THE EFFORT! When you make a careful and considered pitch you never know how many friends you may be winning for caching. It may even be enough to offset a negative situation someday! T-storm http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching