Team DeLorme

Doesn't your NDA expire when they start shipping next week? Also, since the PN-20 and the eTrex Vista H use the same MediaTek chip . . . I think? How do you account for the 3X battery life of the Vista? FWIW, The PN-20 uses the STMicroelectronics "Teseo" chipset and the PN-40 uses the STMicroelectronics "Cartesio" chipset. -Brian

Camp_13, the Topo USA maps are actually 1:100K. We interpolate the contours to a 20 foot interval but the digital elevation model that is used has a lower resolution than a 1:24K USGS quad. That's why the Map Library is going to be such an important piece of the PN-40 and Topo USA package. I spent last weekend bird hunting in the Moosehead Lake area and used my PN-40 as an antenna for my laptop to show our location on the high res aerial imagery and the USGS quad maps. I had the maps on both devices so that we could see the large screen in the truck and use the GPS in the field. The logging roads change so quickly up there, it's very helpful to have the aerial imagery. The USGS quads are great too because they show all the building footprints and have lots of additional point information. I actually used the imagery to plot a bushwhack from a dead-end logging road back to the truck along clearings that were only visible in the imagery... saved me a lot of backtracking. Check out the map library... 1:24K USGS maps for the entire US for $29.95, along with all our other map types. There's also an ongoing half price deal for the USGS data by state... I use that for Maine, much easier than downloading the whole thing through NetLink. Let me know if you have any other questions... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

There was confusion caused by all the activity in the sales group... the offer still stands. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

I'm looking into this... will post more tomorrow. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

Thanks HondaH8er, I appreciate your comment. Your right about the feedback, we started working closely with our forum users back with Topo USA 6.0 and the initial designs of the PN-20. Many of those users were also geocachers and talked quite a bit about this forum. We work hard to keep up with both sites... there's an impressive volume of GPS discussion in both locations and the use cases are very helpful when we design new features. Working with a public forum is an excellent way to learn what people really think about your product... and you can't hide from the facts when users are so good at creating steps to reproduce issues! Here's my favorite improvement from the PN-20 to the PN-40; once I got used to the speed of course... 360 degree rotation for aerial imagery and USGS quad maps... Geocaching on high resolution aerial imagery is amazing on both devices but the PN-40 is now fast enough to pin the GPS arrow at the center of the map and rotate the imagery smoothly as you walk to a cache location. It really has changed the way I use the device. Let me know if you have any other questions about your PN-20 or the upcoming release... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

The 14 hour reference for the Earthmate PN-20 was with the device in Power Saving mode. It turns the backlight off and steps down the processor. We've worked hard on the power management for the Earthmate PN-40. Tests are showing performance as good if not better than the PN-20 and that's with the dual processors, electronic compass, barometric altimeter, and accelerometer. Power Saving mode is recommended if you're looking to maximize battery life. The PN "wakes up" when a button is pressed so you don't have to worry about performance when you need to reference the GPS. I use Power Saving when I'm recording tracks and using the device for occasional reference but otherwise just have it clipped to my pack or in my pocket. I also recommend rechargeable batteries. If you use our Li-Ion it can be recharged in the car while you're driving from one cache to the next. I go back and forth between that for most uses and a couple of NiMH sets when I'm camping and can't recharge. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

The PN-Series devices offer paperless caching but are currently restricted to 800 characters for the cache details. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the DeLorme forum... check out this post for screenshots: http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=15275&start=0 We've got the 800 character limit high on our feature request list and hope to go to full cache details soon. Our current exchange process moves the shorter fields to the front of the comment and clips the logs and end of the long description if the cache details are lengthy. I hope this helps... Consider spending some time reading the posts in the Earthmate PN-40 forum if you're looking for more information; the beta testers have been sharing some of their experiences with the device. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

J-Way is referencing the Earthmate PN-Series devices... $399.95 for the PN-40, less for the PN-20. The 24K USGS quads are part of a new Map Library subscription... $29.95 unlimited download for a year plus all the other data we sell like high resolution aerial imagery and NOAA nautical charts. I'm putting the USGS quads for the state of Maine on my device as we speak... early season upland training session for the yellow lab tomorrow morning so I'll be doing a little PN-40 testing at the same time. Let me know if you have any questions about the USGS maps on the PN-40 or 20... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

Ratsneve... some facts behind the Earthmate PN-40se: We weren't trying to create a gimmick with the se model, we wanted to build a special device for our hardcore customers and knowing how much data people are going to pull down from the Map Library we thought why not create a special edition with a ton of internal memory. -The se has an 8GB internal memory chip. There are no microSD slots hiding behind the back cover. It's just like the 1GB internal memory on the standard device only with 8X the capacity. -The se is limited because we only made a limited number of devices with the 8GB internal memory chip. Again, this is not a gimmick, just a reasonable budgeting decision followed by a good plan to make sure people are informed and the se models are fairly distributed. -The devices are only available through DeLorme. It's a special edition and we're managing the distribution ourselves. -I've run several tests to see which is faster and while I am pleased with how quickly the SD card is accessed with the new PN-40 configuration, there is still a slight edge when the data is stored on the internal memory. It's very slight but enough so that I store all of my "must have" maps on my internal memory. -I currently have the Topo USA maps for Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont stored on the 1GB internal... that's as much of New England as I can fit. The rest of my aerial and USGS maps are stored on my 8GB SD card. My plan once I get one of the highly coveted se models (only two in-house so far) is to store all of the Topo USA data for New England and New York on the internal memory and then use the remaining storage to put the entire state of Maine in USGS (buy the DVD for $50 if you want to do this... gives you a back-up and saves you all the download effort) and as much of the state's high res aerial imagery as I can fit. -I will still use my 8GB SD card to store all the maps for special trips and anything that won't fit on the internal 8GB. -You've hit on a key issue for growth too... with all of my critical data stored on the internal memory I'm free to swap my SD cards out should I have a special set of maps on one card and a different set on another. At the end of the day both devices are going to be excellent. We didn't change any of the functionality between the two units, just the amount of maps that you can store on the special unit... after all, it's about the maps. In the end everyone should weigh the value of storing all their data internally or placing it on SD cards. Hopefully I've shared enough about my memory usage to help you make a decision. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

I guess for me the questions are: 1: How much memory does the "average" map with overlays, aireals and geocache data take? 2: Under what circumstances would you exceed the 1GIG internal memory? 3: I'm assuming the internal memory is faster. Is it noticably faster? 4: Can the unit read the data directy from the SDHC cards or do you have to move the data to the internal memory before you can use it? @Junkwood: 1: "Average" is hard to define on this one. For me I have a lot of map packages with USGS 7.5min quads and color aerial photography that are ~2 GB in file size and ~ 500 sq. mi in area. 2: See answer #1. 3: It was noticable on the PN-20, much less so on the PN-40. See here for more: http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=14925&start=210, specifically CMason's post @ 12:39pm EST from Sept. 12th. 4: Yes, the PN-40 (& the -20) read the data directly from the card. No need to move data into internal memory. I hope this helps! -Brian Danz -Team DeLorme

That's great to hear! We have a lot of mac users in the building at DeLorme... and a lot of geocachers on top of that. We definitely want to help users like you and developers like Robert. We're not quite as big as our competitors so it can take us a little longer to get a project completed... especially with all the resources focused on the 40. We appreciate all of the feedback... there was definitely a time when Mac support was off our radar. Consistent pressure from our users and forums like this one has helped the mac users here in the building lobby for resources... Like I said, we'll be posting here when we have more. Thanks! Chip Noble Team DeLorme

I'm sorry it took me too long to write my first reply... I hope you will question my typing skills and not the talent of the company. Check out the features on the PN-40 and the reviews as they start to hit the web. If the device interests you, keep it on your list of considerations. We are listening to the Mac requests and want to put threads like this to bed with something everyone enjoys. It will take some time but we are listening... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

They've announced no support for Mac on that product line. I spoke with them briefly about GPSBabel support for transferring Waypoints, Tracks, and Routes (not maps) and never got any traction with them. I'm not sure that "never got any traction" is a fair representation of the series of e-mails Robert and I exchanged. Our transfer protocol has proven too time intensive for third party developers to implement... dealing with resource and scheduling issues myself, I can appreciate that feedback. Our exchange API is not cross platform... knowing how much Mac interest is out there, I can also appreciate why that isn't the best solution. We reached the conclusion that DeLorme needed to work on a cross-platform utility for Mac users and for third party developers. We've talked about that in the DeLorme forums as well as this forum. The project is in development but as you all know, we're in the middle of a new GPS release and need to focus efforts there. We're definitely listening to all the feedback about cross platform support. Keep an eye out... there's so much activity on this forum, we'll be sure to announce any news here first! In the meantime, thank you all for your patience... we're going as fast as we can! Chip Noble Team DeLorme

We've configured the GPX import process to place the cache details in the comment field of the geocache waypoint. You will see the Cache Name, Owner, Type, Size, Difficulty, Terrain, Items, Hint, Description, and Logs assuming all of it fits within the 800 character limit. If the Description is too long the Logs will get clipped off. Everyone here at DeLorme wants to see unlimited cache details too, it's on our list and we hope to be able to pick it off in one of the early firmware updates. Trust me, I'll be announcing it here as soon as we have it ready! Chip Noble Team DeLorme

This is an excellent discussion and I hope you don't mind me jumping in here... you're discussing our GPS and I do think we are hearing what you're saying... We agree completely with the two types of users that you're describing, the consumer that is looking for easy access to maps, charts, and imagery... and the serious user that is looking to pull in all the free data they know is available on-line. We targeted the consumer first when we put the Earthmate PN-20 out with Topo USA and the ability to buy additional data through our NetLink download site. We got great feedback on the concept of taking high resolution aerial imagery into the field on a GPS device... along with lots of requests to make the device faster and make the additional data types cheaper. We'll be releasing the PN-40 in October with a Cartesio chipset from STMicro and a blazing fast dual core processor. At the same time we'll launch our Map Library subscription which gives you access to all of our data types for $29.95, unlimited download for a year... that includes 24K USGS quads, 1 meter high res color aerial imagery, nautical charts from NOAA, and our Topographic dataset... all for the entire US. I can hear you typing already... why pay for data that is free... well, with our XMap software you don't have to. You can load MrSID and GeoTIFF files from your state GIS library and view that imagery on your desktop or load it into your Earthmate PN-Series device. I have six inch resolution imagery for my house and for DeLorme's headquarters... it's amazing to see the detail. Some might call it overkill for geocaching but I'll take all the advantage I can get... imagery has helped me choose a path more than once when topographic data didn't have anything to offer. You can also use XMap and the ImageReg tool to register a scanned image on the map. I did this today for a "learn to geocache" event I'm helping with. The host of the event sent me a CAD screenshot of their campus and trail system and I registered it in XMap with a transparent background, overlaid it on the high res aerial imagery, and placed all the geocaches on the map. I transferred all of this to the PN-40 and will be ready to go on Saturday. Sorry, I hope this didn't trigger anyone's anti-marketing reaction. I do work for DeLorme... I manage their design department and I get excited when I see people talking about our sweet spot in this industry... maps on a GPS device. Our pitch for a while has been that it's all about the maps… Reef mapper, fire me a PM if you have any questions about the PN-40. Your kayak mapping system caught the eye of a few lurkers here in the building... that's a very cool setup! Anyone else with questions about getting free data onto the PN, just let me know. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

I'll have someone give you a call tomorrow to arrange the cable replacement, please send me a PM with your contact info. Sorry you had some trouble getting through to TS, sometimes call volumes are higher on Mondays after the weekend. Let me know if you have any other questions about your Earthmate PN-20. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

The DeLorme forum will be back up later today, our apologies for any inconveniences. And yes, we'll be changing our "site down" page to reflect this. -Brian Danz Team DeLorme

Currently, FW updates to the PN-40 go only to the Beta testers as they are sole user community at this time. The policy with the PN-20, after its release to the public at the retail level, was to issue the FW updates to the total user community via the DeLorme website, more specifically, the user forum. I'm not sure which letter comes after Beta in the Greek alphabet, but after that, everybody was in that process. Delta testing? A minor clarification... we do a lot of internal testing with firmware updates before we release anything to the public, even the beta releases. We had lots of requests for faster updates and decided a beta release with disclosure helped those looking to stay on the bleeding edge while allowing others to wait for the beta label to be removed. It also allows QA to increase testing from the relatively low volume of internal testers to the much larger volume of active users that frequent our forum.delorme.com site. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

I'm embarrassed to say that I missed the scale difference that MtnHermit has brought to everyone's attention. I was focused on the DeLorme questions and didn't realize that you were comparing our 100K Topo USA data that comes with the PN-20 to Garmin's 24K Topo data that can be purchased separately for their devices. A 100K dataset will not have the same granularity as a 24K dataset, that's the nature of scale and resolution. Since I work for the company I need to point out that our new DeLorme Map Library gives you access to the USGS 24K maps for the entire US for $30... you also get access to high resolution color aerial imagery and nautical charts... also for the entire US. Add to this the street routing network and business point of interest dataset that is part of Topo USA and you've got access to quite a collection of maps for your GPS device. Let's keep an eye on the bottom line too... I'm looking at the Earthmate PN-40 at $430 for everything. But now you're drawing me away from my design department and into the sales and marketing department... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

That's interesting, I spoke with our training coordinator at lunch today and he said he called the Bend, Oregon store to see how things were going, asked if they needed any training or information about the device. Their product expert said he liked the PN-20... I'm not sure who you spoke with on the phone. I sent your post through... a statistic like he quoted will show up in our records and certainly be something we'll want to resolve if it proves out. I agree with Team CowboyPapa, do your own evaluation. You've already seen lots of screen shot examples to get a feel for the maps and how they compare with what you're familiar with... You'll have to judge for yourself on that topic. Our screen has been rated very highly... and I do use polarized glasses for fly fishing. You can experience the classic "turn your head to the side" fade out that occurs with polarized lenses and any screen display. Just don't tilt your head all the way to the side and you'll be fine, normal viewing angles don't cause any problem. We know that the PN-20 map draw speeds can be slower if you are viewing imagery or moving very fast in a car while zoomed in to a high detailed map, but otherwise the device performs well for its intended uses... hiking, biking, hunting, paddling... We're coming out with the dual processor in the PN-40 and I can assure you that device has a blazing fast map redraw, even at the highest detail when traveling in a car... showing high resolution color aerial imagery. You're in the same boat here though... you don't want to just take my word for it. Go to a store and try one out yourself. And don't forget that there's a 30 day money back guarantee so you have time to change your mind even if you do make a purchase. Good luck with the rest of your search... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

Didn't your Earthmate LT-40 come with Street Atlas USA? You can use that to navigate with... it also has a Draw tab with the ability to load geocaching.com .gpx and .loc files. You'll be able to do all your road routing with the laptop and then switch over to a handheld device once you're in the cache area... Actually, my best recommendation would be to return the Earthmate LT-40 and replace it with an Earthmate PN-40. You'll be able to use the USB cable to connect the PN-40 to your laptop like an external antennae and have that GPS device drive Street Atlas or Topo USA on your laptop, then when you get close you can unplug the PN-40 and take it out of the vehicle to find the cache. If you already own the laptop and are interested in geocaching, this would be a great way to have the best of both worlds. You can use Street Atlas and the laptop for large screen in-vehicle navigation and the Earthmate PN-40 for in the field geocaching. Keep in mind that you can also buy an Earthmate PN-20 to connect with your laptop software. The PN-20 has all the map abilities of the PN-40 but no electronic compass or barometric altimeter and it is not quite as powerful as the new device with the dual processors. Let me know if you have any other questions... Chip Noble Team DeLorme

Thanks Ratsneve, another good example of how GPS manufacturers benefit from keeping an eye on active forums like gc.com... not all that positive, but something we can remedy. I've just forwarded your post and a link to this thread to our retail training rep. He'll be sure to get in touch with the folks at REI in Bend, OR and help them out with any problems they've experienced. We've found as much positive feedback from getting out to train staff at retail locations as we have from participating with customers on the forums. To answer your question... the PN-Series devices do have Exit Services like you'll find in Topo USA. All you have to do is change the Find option to Show: Points of Interest and Category: Exits and Rest Areas. I just ran a quick test and found Exit 5B in Portland, ME. It shows Information: Exit with Service / Food-Lodging-Other Portland, ME 04102. Once you take the exit you could change your POI category to Restaurants and find the Dogfish Cafe, one of my favorite restaurants in the city. You'll get the restaurant phone number too so you can call ahead to see if they are busy then create a route to their location. Topo USA 7.0 is the latest version of that software. We'll be releasing a remaster with some updates to support the Earthmate PN-40 when we ship the new device. Thanks again for the note about your experience at REI; we'll help them out right away. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

There have been many requests for a larger screen... Our goal with the PN-40 was to release a second generation device with a more powerful processor, to deliver a better GPS chipset, and to include electronic compass and barometric altimeter sensors. We didn't pursue a larger screen because it would require changes to plastics and the board layout, something that would increase the price of the unit beyond just the more expensive screen. We've also had very positive feedback from PN-20 owners and PN-40 beta testers regarding the daylight readable screen and how well it performs in different outdoor light conditions. We've had several testers conduct side by side readability comparisons with our competitors and had the PN outperform the larger screens. Clearly I'm biased, but I'd rather have a smaller screen that I can read than a larger one that is hard to see. I'd strongly recommend taking the devices you're considering outside with a sales rep, it's an important purchase consideration and the sales rep will benefit from seeing the differences. As for IPX7 waterproofing standards, we're compliant and guarantee our device to 3 feet for 30 minutes. The warranty coverage is good for swimming, kayaking, and any other activity that doesn't go below 3 feet. I've been white water kayaking, rafting, sea kayaking, canoeing, and even swimming without incident. I don't recommend scuba diving with the device or cliff jumping but I'm not sure how they would test for that should you try to return the device. You could contact our customer service department if you have specific questions about the warranty, my experience is that DeLorme is much more concerned about making sure our customers are happy then they are in hardware return forensics... abusers of any policy become apparent with time. I hope this helps… Chip Noble DeLorme

I've been using our Li-Ion rechargeable battery during the beta... it allows the device to float and I sometimes end up in the water whether rafting or kayaking. We're targeting PN-20 performance with the PN-40... the new device does have a more powerful dual processor and three sensors but we've worked hard to improve other areas during the development cycle. I don't have official numbers for all the battery types and know that the Li-Ion is actually the lowest performer out of the four types we support... the price for being rechargeable. Your 12 hour expectation for a full day out hunting will require alkalines and I'm guessing the use of Power Saving mode. If I'm logging something important and don't want to risk missing some of the track I use the Energizer e2 Lithiums, we were seeing performance in the 14 hour range with the PN-20. I'm expecting to be back in that ball park when they finish the power curve analysis for that battery type. The device floats with the e2 Lithium batteries too! Personally, I always carry a spare set of batteries regardless... they fit in my GPS carry case and they put my mind at ease. Look for more official numbers on our website or forum when the specs get posted. Thanks for the question! Chip Noble Team DeLorme

I'm glad you're enjoying your new device... hopefully we've provided enough information to help you should the mapping features on the PN-40 spark your curiosity again. Keep an eye on the DeLorme forum and blog for more information as we approach the Earthmate PN-40 release... Chip Noble Team DeLorme