Gan Dalf

Becasue I qualified fo rthe challenge I was trying to do and didn't want to HAVE to cache every day anymore.

Are you indicating I should conform and play the game your way? You have my reason. I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else. I play the way I play and plan the way I plan. That's the beauty of this game. One makes the game the way they want to. No, no expectation of conformity and no need for justifcation. In fact, I have a great deal of respect for the way you cache even if it is not how I choose to. I wasn't meaning to be critical. I just don't understand the motivation for doing it. Is it just a data geek thing, you can and so you do? It's not necessary for the way you cache and so I am just curious why, thats all. I don't CARE, perse and again, not meaning to be critical and this sounds like it IS just a data geek thing, so I guess that answers my question.

I have to agree with jholly on this one, really, who needs to have every single cache in the whole state in a data base? Totem Lake, you haven't found more than five caches in a month for several years, do you really NEED to run PQ's for every cache in the state? I know you can, and there is nothing wrong with doing it, but I just really wonder why you want to... The hilkes you do surely don't get new caches along the trails enough to warrant a state wide PQ and you can always make a new one for whatever trail you are going to be walking along the night before you go.

I hate those cachers that drive in the carpool lane going 2 MPH less than the speed limit with their toddler in their car seat as the only other occupant of the car just because it's "legal".

I know of at least one cacher that does this. e-mail me directly and I will intorduce you guys. I think you might already know him...

I would ask the ownner of the bugs if they mind. If they don't then you can mail them to me. I live in Washington State so that would be about a 2200 mile jump... Please send along the OK from the CO for verification. There used to be TB portals called stargates where the owners of the stargates did just what you are asking about. It's usually done to get the bug closer to it's goal but if that is a precedence than I think it is OK. I know there is a Stargate near me but no one wants to put anything in it anymore because it has become a place for coin thieves to pilfer from.

Challenge caches must but attainable, but they don't have to be attainable by everyone. From the Knowledge Books: This is largely what the discussion with my review has been about. He had some hesitation over the challenge's attainability (even though I've attained it myself) on the basic premise that it's too difficult to attain for cachers with high find counts and too low of averages. I, of course, argued this point suggesting that the rule only requires that it be attainable (not easily attainable by everyone) and pointing out that it is no more biased against cachers with high find counts than many of the popular challenges requiring large, disparate find counts are against cachers with low find counts. I wanted the links to the other caches, not for precedent purposes, but rather, so he could see the logs for those caches which show that these types of challenges are found (with relative frequency) by cachers with find counts all over the spectrum. I'm pretty sure I was right in my reading of the rule, and I'm pretty sure I would've been able to successfully appeal, but in the long range scheme of things, my reviewer is a good dude and I know he's doing his best. He has a different interpretation of the rule than me, and really, it's his that counts. So, in the end, I abandoned the argument and agreed to an alternative which permits cachers with find counts in excess of 1000 to log it on the basis of their averages over the 1000 finds immediately preceding the logging of the cache. --Matt I'm sure there is a way, for someone with far greater math skills than me, to develop a formula that will tell a cacher what they would need average over a given period in time in order to attain the required level given their current average. I htink it will be difficult for any that have a high find count to attain that level at all if they live in an urban area and cache with much regularity at all. Unless you are specifically targeting harder caches, almost everyone will default to the 1.5/1.5 block on their fizzy grid.

That's my approach too. 1: Wheelchair 2: Kids are OK 3: You should have doubts about bringing kids 4: You better be comfortable in the outdoors 5: Don't even think about it I use a similar approach: 1: Flat, paved or hard packed dirt or gravel with no uneveness, easily obtained while sitting in a wheel chair. 1.5: As above although might require some stooping or reaching or going over a small curb; still able to do on crutches. 2.0: should be able to easily walk to it, maybe with some slightly uneven terrain or small hills to go up or down, including stairs. 2.5: Similar to 2.0 but some scrambling over/under logs might be required or might include a short hike, less than half a mile along an established trail. 3.0: Some bushwhacking necessary and/or a moderate hike (more than half a mile) required. 3.5 Moderate hike with moderate elevation changes and/or more bushwhacking necessary. 4.0 Significant hike of over a mile with several changes of elevation and/or scrambling over rocks, logs or other obstacles is required. You might be required to climb something (tree, large rock face, etc.) but special equipment is not required. Requires some level of physical fitness but one does not have to be a decathlete to accompplish. 4.5 Should be the hardest terrain to traverse; significant hike with large changes of elevation and significant obstacles to overcome. Special equipment might not be necessary but it could make getting to GZ much easier and safer. 5.0 Reserved for special equipment but not necessarily a difficult challenge. I've done 5 star boat caches that once the destination is reached, the terrain is a breeze. It's getting there that poses the largest challenge.

...and here and here as well

Tested what? How?

>My feelings are that most of those "folks" are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the ones I know, share my feelings on the subject. My opinion is, that the reward of completing the requirements of the challenge is the privilege of finding the cache. If you haven't completed the requirements, why should you get the same reward as those that have? I can't speak for those that make pointless challenges and then make the final an LPC park and grab. I can see how someone that creates a Challegne Cache Power trail would not care if you complete the requirments first before signing the log. Personally I don't go out of my way to try and complete those challegnes, to me, they are just not very challenging. "98% of all statistics are made up on the spot..." The key phrase here is "do not care". Did you really present them with the other side of your argement or did you word it in such a way that favors your position? I'm betting that a lot of those folks don't care one way or the other. If the CO says pre-logging is OK, then great, if he says you have to wait, then no big deal. Afterall, it is the feeling of the owner of the cache that really matters, not those that are trying to justify the practice. Ya think?

Sock Puppets are against the Forum guidelines: 4. Sock puppet accounts are not permitted. A sock puppet is an account made on an internet message board by a person who already has an account for the purpose of posting anonymously. Use your own account for posting personal opinions. Posts from known sock puppet accounts may be deleted and both the puppet and actual account may be banned from using the services of Groundspeak.

Ignore List *** oops, you are basic member. His sock puppet, the one he's using to post to this thread, is a basic memebership. His real account, the one that has the issue of seeing his sock puppets caches, is probably premium and then yes, he could ignore them if he really wanted them off his map.

Funny, I have two Challenge CACHES with exactly that requirement. Since a Challenge CACHE is all about an (allowed) ALR, I don't see the issue. Obviously, I agree with your interrpetation. I see your challenges were published a couple of years ago, mine was farely recent this year. it could be that Groundpseaks interpretation of How they want challenges managed has changed since then. There were several proviosions that I was not allowed to include that I had seen included in several other challenges in our area. The old, cache precendence does not justify the publication of your cache, rearing it's head. Also I was dealing with someone at Groundspeak directly, not a local reviewer. Interpretations of the Knowledge Books can often differ from one reviewer to the next.

My feelings are that most of those "folks" are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the ones I know, share my feelings on the subject. My opinion is, that the reward of completing the requirements of the challenge is the priviledge of finding the cache. If you haven't completed the requirements, why should you get the same reward as those that have?

Well DanOCan, I think you hit it right on the head for me when you said {my log says "Found It", not "Signed It"}. I was leaning this way but had to check the general consensus. In my younger days streaking was fun, now I might just scare everyone. Team_State The flip side is that seeing a cache is not the same as reaching it, opening it and signing the log. Exactly! Everyone always complains about those that don't sign the log and give the excuse "I saw it" or "I touched it" and say they should be able to log it as a find. But then flipt he tables over and some are now impplying that you should date the find the day you first saw it. To the OP, don't worry about it. If you didn't sign the log, then you are fine with not logging it until you do and using the date you signed the log as your found it day...

I can't stand this practice. I have a challenge cache that I tried to write into the rules that you could not sign the log before completing the challenge. To do this I was going to require a date on the physical log and it had to match the date of your found it online. Groundspeak wouldn't allow it, said that was an ALR...

some people keep unpublished or archived caches as repositories for travel bugs that they have in their posession. I think this was more common before TPTB gave us Trackable Inventories but if your bug is marked as not collectible then this woudl be a way for someone to keep a trackabel without it shwoing up as in their possesion.

Probably best answered int he Travel Bugs Forum. The link provided above takes you to infomration on how to find, activate or otherwise look for info on Trackbles but it migh tbe hard for someone so new to find the information. The best way to drop a trackable into a caches inventory that you've placed it in is to do so either with yrou Found it Log or by posting a note. First however you have to make sure that the bug is in YOUR inventory. To do that, go to the link provided above, enter the tracking number of the trackable you have in the search window and click find. Once you are on the trackable page you can then retrieve the bug from where ever it is currently listed as being. In doing so, the trackable will then be listed as in your possession and will be in your inventory. Bugs listed in your inventory will show up at the bottom of the page when you are posting your log. Simply click the pull down window next to the bug you left in the cache and click on Dropped. when you submit your note the bug will be moved from your inventory tot he inventory of the cache you just logged. Hope this helps. Have fun.

No, I noticed it then too and didn't mind it as much because it happened much less frequently for the exact reasons you state, too time consuming.

I agree, I find it annoying, even on bugs that I own. Yes there is the benefit of knowing that the person in posession of your bug is aware that they have it and are moving it around, but ever since the advent of the "visited" option on the log page for each TB in your inventory, cachers in posession of bugs seem to take this as an entitlement to hang on to a bug and "dip" it into cache after cache that they find. Personally I'd rather they just dropped it a cache and left it for the next player to take. As long as it's not a noob that doesn't know how it works...

I was also kind of hoping that someone knew what it meant to make a trackable a collectible. this one I can answer, sorry about your other problems. If you go to your profile page you will notice two different categories for your Trackables. One is labeled Trackaable Inventroy and the other is listed as Trackable Collection. If a trackable is listed as Collectible by the Owner (Be that you or someone else) then you are able to move that Trackable to your Collection. In order to mark your Trackable as Collectible you have to edit it and then click the Yes radio Button under Is Collectible: Most circulated trackables are listed either as not trackable or no preference set. The most important thing is that if you want to collect your own tracakables (some people have extensive geocoin collections for example) than you have to set the Is Collectable choice to move it to your collection. Otherwise the tracable will remain in your inventory and be available to drop into caches. Hope this helps, or at least answers your question. Is it still available for others to discover? I beieve so, yes. Although I would appriciate a mod verifying... eartha?

If there is I'm not aware of how to do it. I think hydnsek's suggestion is a good one. Besides, I thought this was a pretty straight forward challenge. Public bookmark list already exists and is linked to on the cache page, people should have a pretty good idea which ones they've found and only 30 caches to check for... Besides, I was hoping to make this one easy to manage given that my hands are pretty full with the Cities and Towns challegne as well (not that I am trying to slack off or anything...)

so does this shoot the whole idea behind the fizzy challenge out of the water? If it's all just subjective conjecture, what's the point?

I was also kind of hoping that someone knew what it meant to make a trackable a collectible. this one I can answer, sorry about your other problems. If you go to your profile page you will notice two different categories for your Trackables. One is labeled Trackaable Inventroy and the other is listed as Trackable Collection. If a trackable is listed as Collectible by the Owner (Be that you or someone else) then you are able to move that Trackable to your Collection. In order to mark your Trackable as Collectible you have to edit it and then click the Yes radio Button under Is Collectible: Most circulated trackables are listed either as not trackable or no preference set. The most important thing is that if you want to collect your own tracakables (some people have extensive geocoin collections for example) than you have to set the Is Collectable choice to move it to your collection. Otherwise the tracable will remain in your inventory and be available to drop into caches. Hope this helps, or at least answers your question.