Mike Chmi

Oopss sorry, your ABSOLUTELY RIGHT fixing that on the post, should have had "some" in there like I did for other things, as I can't speak for anyone but myself. Just got carried away... I truly didn't mean it like that to be ignorant and presumtious like that, my thoughts where flying and that's how it came out. My bad my apologies once again.

something out of the ordinary and worthwhile (either beauty of nature or cool concept). Something challenging either through the hike or intellectually. I think the one universal of a great geocache is that the cache placer but considerable TIME AND EFFORT into making it.

garmin/independent How about including mag/ind and gar/ind I'm guessing there is a far amounts of independents about.

garmin/independent How about including mag/ind and gar/ind I'm guessing there is a far amounts of independents about.

First off I do want to thank Jeremy for being democratic enough to allow people (myself included) to post negative things about his new idea on this site. I also want to point out something that I feel may not be fully understood from those people who do not believe that this is a good idea (I don't pretend to speak for all of us). It ISN'T TRULY about the money. Yes, I am a struggling student (actually just graduated and trying to get into grad school cause my degree is worthless without a DR.,), yes the charge would hurt, BUT that is not what most of us I think are complaining about. Heck I wouldn't complain about a $60 a year fee as long as it didn't include mocaches, by the same lines I would still complain about a $10 a year fee if it did include mocaches. Why? Because as "Douglas E. Welch", myself, and others have stated before it is the commercialization of geocaching that is bad. I think almost all of the "naysayers" here are not against Jeremy making money on the site, like I said before heck I'd like to see him be able to make a living off of it. BUT geocaching WAS NOT invented by Jeremy (for whoever talked about Edison and all). THE SITE WAS like I said (I know I'm repeating myself but I feel some are missing the point). I have no problem with the charter member icon, specialized abilites, yada yada, it's the commercilization of the core of the sport that bothers me. Geocaching is a grassroots thing, made possible by fellow cachers. The idea of paying for a cache to me goes against all the reasons I fell in love with geocaching. Yes I would like added security, i've done some caches that took me months to set up, but I highly doubt that this new service will offer any real security (other's have spoken to why). In addition I know that several newbies who I introduced to the sport a few weeks ago are rather put off by the whole idea, when I explained it to them as a "grassroots" though I didn't use that word, activity where locals put out caches they loved the idea. They have since come to me concerned about the entire thing, they haven't found a cache yet, but they kind of see it as a business now. I honestly believe mocaches are bad for the sport. On the same lines people have mentioned that they won't become caching elitists, I'm sure they won't they then go on to mention that they will put extra time and money into mocaches (here's the problem, I realize it is their cache to do whatever they want with, heck some of my caches I wish could have more protection but like I said I don't see the membership offering any real protection. Plus if I put my cache in that took me months to create then newer cachers would never get the chance to do it, yeah they could do my other ones and yes those (I believe and others have emailed me saying as much) are good, but they pale in comparisson to my best one. Now taking away the premium cache I did (or any others I plan on doing) steals so much from the caching community. This is breaking down what I loved about caching (i know I've repeated this several times). It's not about change, it's not about paying $30, it's about the loss of what was great and the commercialization of it. It's not so much the actual thing as it is THE PRINCIPLE of the thing. I also kind of dislike the attitude by some here that anyone who is against this is somehow unappreciative of Jeremy or doesn't trust him. Like I said I have no problem with him making money. It's not that I don't trust Jeremy with pay caches (mocaches) it's that I feel Business should not have to do with the actual caching part of the sport at all. I wouldn't want anyone even my closest friends to be in charge of pay caches or profit from pay caches, I don't distrust Jeremy once again it's just the Principle of the thing. And please don't reply with principles don't pay the bills. If the mocaches were to be eliminated (I know some of the charter members may know want the mocaches just because of all the fuss the "naysayers" have caused... human nature) there wouldn't be any argument (at least from me) and plenty of people (I'm guessing) would still join. So in summary IT'S the PRINCIPLE of the thing people, not the cost, not how cheap it really is compared to the amount of money some of you spend on coffee or whatever, not distrusting Jeremy, not whining, it's the Principle!!!! Also I know everyone has different opinions on this matter and I respect them and everyone on this site. HOpefully this debate can continue without it getting political and poeple juming into camps or without it becoming an us and them mentality as some point out that it may. Mike [This message was edited by mikechim on March 07, 2002 at 12:02 AM.]