scorpio_dark
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Posts posted by scorpio_dark
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Have you asked the one that turned you down? There are plenty of users here that will attest to how helpful reviewers can be with getting you in line with the guidelines.
There is an appeals process also, but if the reviewer gives you specific guidelines that your cache does break, don't expect much from the process.
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For any of us non-premium folks:
I did a google search and quickly found this bookmark list.
Betting you can find more that way. Found some other pretty super bookmarks that way too!
I just skimmed the first page, but about half the caches were archived. Does that mean people think they can't hide a well-hidden cache and also have it be wheelchair accessible?
Doh! Hope they don't think that! As soon as I read this my mind started turning on some great specifically themed puzzle ideas for terrain 1.
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Sure, you were probably nice enough in your messages and actions to any one who has a few caches under their belt.
<SNIP FOR SPACE>
IMO, it's kind of the responsibility of the CO to be a bit benevolent. You obviously took offense at the "waste my time" line. Taking in his whole message, I don't think he meant it harshly. Again referring to the message. He was obviously bombarded with people slinging accusations and deleting or threatening to delete logs. You seem like a good candidate for PMO caches. You play well with other cachers, but not noobs. I don't mean that in a rude way. It's just seems like premiums would help you avoid airing noob laundry like this one and give people who like noobs a chance to foster in a player instead of stomping on his head.
Now, let's all join hands and sing, KUMBAYAH. Not.
whatev . . .and keeps getting slapped in tha face by people who think they are better than him??The finder is the one who stated he didn't have enough time to write more than just a "v". Had he found the time to write one cut and paste note to add to the logs, he could have avoided a lot of trouble.
This is not a one off CO who deleted what they suspected to be a bogus log.
By the finder's own admission, 50+ cache owners emailed him to find out what was up. That tells me that there was a failure to communicate. It is my opinion that the failure was on the finder's part.
Because 50+ cache owners emailed him to ask him to explain, he decided to quit.
I'm not sure how that translates into people thinking they are better than someone else.
Because you and the other folks taking your approach and putting yourselves in a position of judgement over (what reads like) a poor kid who was trying to get a starting point on his own in the game. Maybe you don't like his perception of the game, sure. But he is a noob. His perception of having 100 finds may be wrong, his hasty and careless posts are wrong, but what else?
It comes off as better than someone else because you make it a members only club. Its a club where if the people that know better deem the noob to have made a mistake, they show them the door first and then are surprised or show mirth when the guy doesn't want to come back to the door to hope he'll measure up against your experience and knowledge to be let in again. Or in the case of the OP, come to the geo-police station to be interrogated on his "crimes".
I don't think many are arguing here that the logger is a great communicator. But should we not allow him a little breathing room while he adjusts?
Should we sing KUMBAYAH again?
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For any of us non-premium folks:
I did a google search and quickly found this bookmark list.
Betting you can find more that way. Found some other pretty super bookmarks that way too!
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It is illegal to remove ANYTHING from a historical shipwreck.
Well, there you go, you won't ever be able to archive your cache because it will be illegal to remove it.
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Sure, you were probably nice enough in your messages and actions to any one who has a few caches under their belt.
However, this is a new account they were logging under. From the order of things in the OP, it sounds like you deleted the logs and then sent him a (according to you, polite) "I think you are a geo-criminal and will be investigating" message.
He wrote back and obviously had a cavalier attitude about logging old finds. Maybe you could have educated him nicely about the value that YOU put on those logs he wasn't going to bother with. Tell him it's nice to have a budding cacher starting off on his own and that you like to read about it. And did you notice that he actually apologized! It wasn't an "I'm sorry, but . . . . . ." like you went on to do in your very own OP. He actually said "I apologize" and went on to explain that he didn't realize you were so strict and serious. He also said this got blown out of proportion. There is your friggin clue that you and some other CO's collectively slammed your foot down too hard on somebody. That is if this is a game and not a professional sport.
Maybe you could have gone in blank slate -written the new user nicely before deleting the logs welcoming him to geocaching and then offering him some friendly reminders on how things are done. No threats of deletion or accusations until you open a dialogue or get nothing back in a couple or few days.
Seems like even the reviewer who alerted you made a bad assumption. Actually I am wondering if you would have approached this differently had the reviewer not already deemed them "bogus finds" in the e-mail to you. I'm hoping and thinking you would have been less of a "douche" sans the assumptions you went in with.
IMO, it's kind of the responsibility of the CO to be a bit benevolent. You obviously took offense at the "waste my time" line. Taking in his whole message, I don't think he meant it harshly. Again referring to the message. He was obviously bombarded with people slinging accusations and deleting or threatening to delete logs. You seem like a good candidate for PMO caches. You play well with other cachers, but not noobs. I don't mean that in a rude way. It's just seems like premiums would help you avoid airing noob laundry like this one and give people who like noobs a chance to foster in a player instead of stomping on his head.
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Even if you use the historical value argument with this cache there is a ground based cache that addresses the historical value without bringing extra traffic (and potential damage) to the object of historical value, but still leaves the option open for people to explore further if they so desire. We have a lot of "historical" caches around here. You can stumble on historical value ever 20 feet if you really wanted to here because there is always something historical and valuable to someone.
However, that doesn't mean each object of value must have a cache attached to it. Some caches further away convey the value while preserving the object of value and you get a historical lesson.
We have a site of a plane crash here and it's nearest caches are about 1000-2000 feet away from the crash sight. You could put them right on the crash site but honestly the one in the memorial park had much more impact because of the ancillary information you got on the life of the plane occupants etc. No, you don't get to walk on the ground the plane hit or pick up left over pieces of plane but you get the historical impact even 1000 feet away.
But I didn't think the issue was a harmful placement. It sounds like that if the other cache were adjusted, they'd be good to go.
I agree with this post though.
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Cache saturation guidelines have previously been relaxed when an intervening geographical feature makes accidental "cross discovery" unlikely. This would seem to be a classic example.
+1. I would think if you have followed the proper appeal process (wrote to appealsatgeocaching.com), that you would win this one. Goodness knows I've been wrong before though.
The fact that people can get the information about the shipwreck from the other cache is a great asset to my cache. That way I can get people that have the skills actually out the the wreck and not just looking at the sign.
In that case this sounds like a great set of candidates to re-organize together as a multi, or simply organize it as a "bonus cache" with coords inside the other one. That is if the CO is not game to out-right move it, but is game to cooperate.
I realize this may sadden some of those who would like the smiley out of it. I guess it's really all about what your end goal is. People will get the experience either way, yes?
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<BIG SNIP>
Fourth, Common sense Is very rarely the guiding principle of LEO's in a situation like that. (I'm not trying to be sarcastic either). Consider, that with the exception of an Andy Griffith style small town sheriff, most police officers would be risking suspension, a reprimand, or job loss by not following SOP for something like that.
<snip>
There is the biggest note. These threads pump full of people blaming, insulting or scoffing at the LEOs'. When a call/complaint is made that there may be a bomb, that puts a very strict SOP into effect. Not only would individual officers be making career risks, the police agency in charge would be risking federal liability if they don't go by the book.
There are plenty of resources confirming that DHS and other federal oversight has the power to pull what little funding they give from these departments as well as hold officers criminally liable if they step out of the bounds of the SOP laid out for them. Not to mention the civil possibilities if there is even a minor chance that the "device" will put a citizen under duress or in harms way.
Also kids are creating devices these days that are far more powerful than just some black powder in a container with a fuse. Its not hard to get the formula for nitroglycerin, or other explosives off the internet.
So where are all these kids, and all these bombs? I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it. "I read it on the internet" isn't a source.
I'm going to do my best to not open this thread. Somebody Message me when an actual bomb turns up under a lamp skirt or attached to a street sign.
Meh, I'm not doing all the research for you either. Quick searches will get you plenty of articles on the ones who GOT CAUGHT. Now I don't know whether you want to call 1,000 per year in the US a bunch. . . . but it's certainly enough to notice.
I got the 1,000/year stat from NOVA (on PBS). It was an interesting episode to watch . . . They don't cite their sources on their stat page, but due to their ATF references on the page and in the show, I'm willing to guess they consulted the ATF and DOJ sponsored BATS system. I don't have a login, but an Info officer from any number of agencies could probably help you out.
So after I wrote the above. I realized you took a quote about types of explosives. From what you write your beef seems to be with whether teens really blow up street signs and lamp skirts.
Lamp skirts, I dunno. Street signs . . . . yeah. Just like they get shot up, painted on etc. Usually kids blow up things succesfully because their bombs are simple enough. Unless you've got a scanner-addicted news director or assignment editor at your local news, you aren't likely to hear about the signs that blew up -especially if the fools don't get caught. Depending on your police department, you may have an online blotter to scan through.
One source for you is me. I work in news in Colorado Springs. I've driven to and from numerous explosive calls. Bottle bombs in the driveway, blown up score-board using a "chemical explosive", numerous street lights and signs being shot out or damaged by explosives were all on the list and rarely reported.
<deleted cause I was a smart-a**>
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I disagree. He may have made a minor error by not asking permission to use the device, but that's minor compared to the WAY over-the-top reaction on the part of the airlines personnel. Having him arrested and removed from the plane, really? And why the "ambush" style attack...waiting for the man to go to the bathroom and then taking his devide. I don't get that at all, they took his phone, I'm sure they could have just as easily taken the device then as well.
Sure, bad judgement for not asking, but the actions of the airlines staff was uncalled for and then to be cuffed in NY?
..he took a really obscure unknown "prototype" device and attached it to the plane (via the putty) then left to go to the bathroom
If the putty caused that much of a scare, then why did a staff member remove the device in the short time that the "offender" was in the bathroom?
BOOM!!!!!!!! And no, it doesn't look all that obscure either.
Yeah, this was a going through the motions reaction. Not reacting at all would have been irresponsible, but reacting this way was just lame.
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Note to self.... add "roundup" to caching tools.
just kidding
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Yeah I'd agree that a regular old bottle cap in a cache would be considered trash by most.
I'd suggest someone could make a cache specifically for bottle caps if they were that interested. Also if it's the history behind bottle caps that moves them, they could make a TB with the goal of visiting bottling companies and/or breweries.
I've been looking for a place to drop off Out of Dusseldorf, just such a TB!
Thanks for sharing that. I think it's pretty cool. Reminds me of the chains of pop can tops and safety pins that kids used to thread into their backpacks around here. That TB is a much cooler version though
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Yeah I'd agree that a regular old bottle cap in a cache would be considered trash by most.
I'd suggest someone could make a cache specifically for bottle caps if they were that interested. Also if it's the history behind bottle caps that moves them, they could make a TB with the goal of visiting bottling companies and/or breweries.
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On one right now that is key locked and had 5 or 6 TBs floating around that open the lock. I've only seen one or two TB from their logs that are still "alive". Grabbed one today and will see how the lock is holding up.
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Contact your local reviewer. They're generally pretty cool and appreciate being consulted if there is a possible issue.
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Looks like you're getting quite the unanimous response! Absolutely! Thanks for sharing and I hope you go for making some as TBs like others suggested!
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Or perhaps you could skip the cache idea for now & make your Haiku idea into a traveling bug book where people could add some. (Of course, not everyone will though.) Just another option that came to mind. I like your idea.
I like this
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I think it's up to personal preference. I would not mark it until done since it is in progress with no true end result yet. Others may want to put a note so that it holds the order in which they attempted the cache. A DNF could be more 'honest' if you view the game as a daily approach and want to track your attempts (just like some sports agencies keep track of goal attempts).
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I just want to point out to those who claimed the Swastika has been around for ages that it hasn't.
Yes, the Swastika is a symbol that has been around for a long time but the OP was specificaly asking about a SWASTIKA, not an indian symbol.
~just to split hairs~
True indeed. I thought that whether it was ages or not the point still is true that it was around as a swastika before hitler. According to that other cache that was posted for instance:
We did a multi cache in Dublin a few months back which is based around the swastika design. It was a very interesting, well-thought out cache which led us around some nice parts of the city.
There's also an interesting comment from a German cacher who found it on 10th August...
MrsB
Not that this has any bearing on the topic at hand. . . so I may delete in a minute.
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Well, after doing some thinking and listening to your ideas and opinions, I did some tinkering and came up with this stencil. It incorporates the original design, yet omits the swastika. I replaced it with a geocaching logo I found on Google. What do you think?
I think that anything you do with the eagle will offend far fewer people than the swastika, especially since fewer people have the kind of instant recognition and associations with that symbol. In addition, the eagle gives more of a historical flavor since it is not currently being used in other contexts. Since you're in Missouri and not catering to a group of hyper-sensitive historians, my guess would be that this would pretty much solve the problem. So good job on thinking outside of the box.
Carolyn
P.S. I also think your cache sounds like fun.
The OP is clearly demonstrating effort to avoid giving offense with this cache which is inspired by his or her creative muse. I'm afraid if historical inaccuracy is going to give offense, the OP is just going to have to offend a few.
Nicely put. Alternative history (or as my beloved calls it, "Counterfactuals") has an honored place in literature and other media. Seeing it in a geocache is fun. The only issue with this one is ensuring that the fun can be enjoyed without offending, upsetting, or overwhelming the potential audience. I think the CO is making every effort to ensure that is the case.
Carolyn
EDIT: Oh yeah, I including the posts above to just say one thing. Be really careful . . . cause you just made it okay to offend excuse a minority
Just a thought. Think, but don't worry that I am that serious! END EDITOP and other creative parties: I think there shouldn't be a problem with you using the eagle with wreath and swastika. It is a military symbol the represents the regular military units of a side in a conflict. Some may not have considered what some of those soldiers went through and/or didn't know about the country they thought they loved. I am one of those (what was it . . . . "hyper-sensitive historical enthusiasts"?
) people that don't appreciate historical inaccuracies and other PC moves to bleach a topic and make a weak attempt at a Utopian approach. Not trying to toke the flame, just sharing what it can feel like to us people . Now there are plenty of other symbols featuring or incorporating the swastika that represent the evil parts of Hitler's germany and really don't have a place in a game as this, IMO.On the re-enactment outings I have been on, the "Germans" never wear the Nazi Party Symbols, but may have some in a historical display. They also never represent the "special units". Many re-enactment units representing the Germans will wear that eagle-wreath-swastika symbol because of the argument above. Their presence is generally about education. If you ask a seasoned re-enactor playing WWII German, many times you'll hear about Hitler's Germany, and Germany itself. By thoughts shared in this thread and throughout the world, it seems that many include the entire country and military of the period in their thoughts when they think of Hitler's Germany. I would encourage you to re-consider the "those people" approach.
That said, I think the historical fiction aspect is cool. I just would be sad if the only change you made to the history was to change/neutralize the symbol. I did like the Indy Jones approach of burning it from within
Whatever your choice, OP. Great theme and thanks for contributing your creativity to the caching world
And thanks all for your opionions and thoughts, some were very revealing and opened me to some more food for thought!
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Here's hoping a moderator will merge the two thread the OP made with the same name and subject.
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Done did it. 25.
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How do I report a cacher who is posting inappropriate logs as cache finds. It apprears they are juveniles, as the posts are the typical pre-teen type of excrement descriptions.
<CLIP>
I'd probably be annoyed by those too. Let me ask though, did they actually DO anything? What have you done so far? Have you made contact and ask them nicely to change the log with the looming NICE threat of deletion? There has been some discussion before about deleting logs due to bad language and such. . . .
But as you just said, "the posts are the typical pre-teen type of excrement descriptions." So are you going to change the world one typical pre-teen at a time? I'd maybe support you on principle anyway. Just curious!
I know this doesn't answer your question on how to report, but maybe an encounter with them will solve the problem. Or they'll call you Cap'n Poopy Pants. . . . .
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Hey tell me if I am redundant to someone else's post or a feature that already exists . . .
I think it would be great to have a "featured logs" option for cache pages. Something that allows the CO to pick their favorite logs to top the charts <CLIP>
Now that is a great idea... and one that shouldn't necessarily require a lot of technical work to do.
I imagine that TPTB would shy away from a "rate this log" system (much like they've shied away from a "rate this hide" system).
But allowing the owner to choose one log to feature at the top of the page would be cool...
(OTOH, could cache owners do this on their own, simply by adding the featured log to the cache description page?)
Good call!
and/or the CO could make a favorites blog and link the appropriate one's to the appropriate pages?
and/or the CO could make a favorites blog and link the appropriate one's to the appropriate pages?
Kid-friendly cache that isn't
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Definately should be a log. If they get snippy, that's their issue.