Flatouts

We're kinda new but the green is wearing off and appreciation for the art of the hide taking it's place. We've learned a few important aspects along the way. Especially the art of the hide. With placing a few hides this has become even more apparent... Not everyone gets it! Now if the hide is in a place it probably should be - like 4 miles into a swamp or deeply nested in the side of a mountain that nobody in their right mind would venture, perhaps it's not all that important. So lets just say for the sake of argument this discussion is about Urban Hides. Urban hides don't have to be boring, most we've done in our area are not anyway. Urban hides don't always have to be LPH or Newsstand Hide-a-keys. In fact in our area it could be almost anything anywhere including Amocans in a swamp or a bug in a tree. Yes there are swamps/wet lands in our Urban area. Perhaps because we are exposed to Urban hides more than anything else, we've developed the sense awareness that even good Camouflage usually still requires careful placement and usually includes extra cover from materials in the immediate area (Texas style sorta). Not buried just a little moss or some sticks you know UFO's (Unnatural Formation of Objects). Obviously you want it to look as natural as possible. Urban hides are expose to heavy traffic of people that aren't participating in our sport (Muggles), therefore it takes real good camo to keep them safe. When we do a cache we take in the surroundings, the way the cache is placed, the use of external (UFO) and pathways (you know the ones us Cacher's probably made). We try not to break anything even branches - Bushwhacking even on Caches that state it's probably necessary usually don't really mean you have to clear the land. We've learned that it had to get there and be maintained therefore there's usually an approach that will require very little disruption of natural vegetation. Besides I hate thorns and hides that are thrown into the middle don't impress me at all - but the ones that have a sneaky back door the hider used to place and maintain are very cool. We still haven't learned how to fly in snatch the cache and fly out without touching anything - so for now we just try to be careful - now if the path(s) are trampled and so obvious there's not much we can do about it that's one thing - but for the ones that aren't we try our best to make it look like we flew in signed the log and flew out leaving no trace except our paw print on the log. Now that we have hidden a few we can appreiate it even more. We are also learning very quickly that we might not be with the majority on our retrieval methods. That it almost looks like some folks get the cache, sign the log and carelessly toss it back making little or no effort toward it's future safety. Perhaps I need to just relax and chill out but for some reason after spending hours creating and camouflaging, getting permission then carefully placing a hide thinking all Cachers are accomplished Woodsmen and know about the importance of the art of cache placement and camouflage right, then to check on it or perhaps come up on someone else's and clearly it's been exposed - just burns my goenads! Sometimes it's mother nature. But most of the time it's careless thoughtless attitude. I guess I'm having trouble understanding the mentality here - if you enjoy Geocaching and appreciate a cache/hide/find why would you jeopardize it for your fellow cachers? I like all others I'm sure, I check my hides (probably that little bit of green still behind the ears). I do go the extra mile so my fellow cacher's will experience something a bit different and in a nice interesting place. I place caches to bring folks to see what we saw that inspired us to want to share. The problem is sometimes these spots also have other patrons thus the need to camouflage. But I'm finding that folks do not put things back like they found them. If we were just dealing with Kids here perhaps I would be more understanding... Some folks put things back but not where they found it - this is a problem especially when the Coordinates are part of the application for the approval and for GS to know where what is let along with the owner for maintenance. Some get it back in the right spot but leave it exposed to anyone that walks by... Isn't it obvious that it will mean this hide will be muggled? I might be alone here or there may be 1,000,000's of post just like this - some Cache Hider whining about hides not being returned properly. I guess we'll figure that out by the comments. To Me it's simple. 1. Be careful not to disturb the natural surroundings - the Hider had to put it there so there is obviously a way to get to it. (Boy if folks ever catch on to this aspect of the sport there will be a lot less tree/brush and structure (Walls/Monuments/Lamp Post/Signs) damage caused by cachers huh). 2. Be respectful of the Hide and look how it is placed and return it exactly like you found it (exception if it obviously was already a victim of "Poor Caching Practices" then do your best to remedy that situation and if your not sure contact the owner). At the same time Do not take it upon yourself to improve the original hide! 3. Be courteous to the hider - if the log, baggy or something minor can be done to help maintain it just do it. We carry the supplies and field mend when necessary - a few little words on your log can let the Cache Owner know the status and anything that was done to help preserve it. Perhaps you might even save them a trip. 4. Leave no trace you were there except for inside the cache - I've been know to sweep my tracks and some get fussy at me for taking that time... But they catch on fast and that makes it go much faster when you're all on the same page. Anyway I feel better - I hope someone catches on by reading this - I hope others will contribute to the preservation of the Caches so we can do them eventually ourselves. Cache On! Vince of the Flatouts (please don't hold Janet responsible for my dribble)

"OMG!!! I've lost my contact lens!! My new "hand held lens finder" (aka GPSr) is telling me it landed 3 feet in that direction."

We've done the cell phone thing. When we've come out of the brush or are caught going in, then it's "Here kitty...kitty. Here kitty...kitty!!!" Or...."Dang did ya see the size of that snake?! I think it went this way!!"

BINGO!!!!!

No offence taken - but my to-do list of local caches is now full of 4.5's and 5's.... (Also - if you check my profile you'll see that I've never just dropped a micro in a hedge, and I never will) Cool, so many take things personal around here. Glad to hear you take care in your hides. So many who think they are giving back to caching by maintaining a ratio just toss film cans out the car window any old place. I couldn't agree more with what is being discussed here. When the Mr and I decide on "the hide" we take time to get "creative" and we spend time in searching for an area that we feel is enjoyable in the journey of getting there. We have found several P&G's in parking lots and behind buildings and such and tho they can up your numbers with ease, we know from what little experience that we do have, that we want our "own caches" to be more than just another number/smiley. We hope that those who do choose to hunt them not only find them to be fun and "creative" but they also enjoy the journey of getting there as well as the surroundings in which they are placed. Of the 8 we have already placed, some are big enough for swag and some are just a log but the container they are in we feel are pretty cool. So no, you won't find any of our hides to be a film canister or Tupperware container just tossed out the car window. We want you to get out of your car and do a wee bit of walking. And as always, we almost always make sure that there is no need what so ever to have to destroy the surroundings they are placed. Just the same as when we go on a hunt, we are careful and respectful enough not to leave any traces that we were there.

This is Mrs Flatout here...I was just curious as to how many of our fellow geocachers enjoy "the find" VS "the hide" better? My husband and I have, as of today, 192 finds (not that numbers matter to us) and 8 hides. Although we have extremely enjoyed the journey that has led us to the hides, I myself am finding that I'm becoming even more addicted to placing a "Creative" hide and even more excited over when they are found. Is there anyone else out there who feels the same way? If this is a topic that has already been discussed in this forum, then I apologize for duplicating it and please provide me a link to it.

As of today we have 192 finds and 6 hides. Our one year anniversary is in April '08. For us it's really not about the numbers...it's about the journey I do have a question tho...for those of you that have the much higher numbers...do you remember them all? Just curious...I know I'm having a rough time recalling all of ours. The ones I do recall are where they took us some place interesting, beautiful and with history. We have hopefully made our hides as such.

You left an unidentified pill in a cache? I realize you didn't place it, and it may or may not have been an expanding toy of some sort, but wow. It sounds like the kind of thing I would take and throw out. I just can't fathom the thought of leaving a pill of questionable origin in a cache, or any pill for that matter. Would you leave a gun in a cache? Some things are questionable trade items. Pills are not. No question if they belong or not, they don't. Take 'em out and throw 'em out. Your absolutely right in the fact that we should have taken it out and thrown it out, believe me when I say we're kicking our own behinds for not doing so in the first place. When in doubt, throw it out. As far as a gun, I'd be calling the LEO and wouldn't leave the site until they got there, but at the same time I wouldn't touch it either. I wouldn't want to disturb the finger prints that may already be on it. Stupid is as stupid does and yes we admit we were stupid. We all have our moments, both good and bad. The important thing is that we discus these things and learn from them. Hence our sig line

Kewl...thanks Riff!!! So when are you going to go caching with us again. We were in a couple of parks today that you you written all over them!!!!

You left an unidentified pill in a cache? I realize you didn't place it, and it may or may not have been an expanding toy of some sort, but wow. It sounds like the kind of thing I would take and throw out. I just can't fathom the thought of leaving a pill of questionable origin in a cache, or any pill for that matter. Would you leave a gun in a cache? Some things are questionable trade items. Pills are not. No question if they belong or not, they don't. Take 'em out and throw 'em out. Your absolutely right in the fact that we should have taken it out and thrown it out, believe me when I say we're kicking our own behinds for not doing so in the first place. When in doubt, throw it out. As far as a gun, I'd be calling the LEO and wouldn't leave the site until they got there, but at the same time I wouldn't touch it either. I wouldn't want to disturb the finger prints that may already be on it. Stupid is as stupid does and yes we admit we were stupid.

I rarely get involved in these types of discussions. I usually just shake my head and move on... But this just seems like such an odd issue to have caused people to have become "exasperated." The patrol officers where I work have badge numbers. So do all the surrounding cities and counties. My badge had a number too, until I promoted. Now my badge has my rank insignia. I also happen to know that Los Angeles PD, the California Highway Patrol, and the New York PD all have numbers on their badges (I have seen them). Maybe they are just backward and antiquated departments though. But to get back to the OP’s topic, Rangers, just like police and sheriffs deputies, are people. We all have baggage, and sometimes it spills over into our work lives. That being said, it does not excuse poor behavior. I like to assume the best of people. In law enforcement we tend to see people at their worst. Let’s face it, no body calls the police when the love of their life proposes marriage, or their first child is born. Then call us when their drunk husband is breaking down the door, or their kid is wrecking the living room. I’ll be the first to admit, it gets to you, and every so often you can’t help but unload on some poor person who has gotten them selves into a mess and wants me to get them out. Again, that does not make it right. But we are all people. In the case of the casual cachers? Who knows. While this may be the first time you have run into this particular ranger, it may be the 200th time the ranger has had to explain that park rules prohibit caching. Again, unloading on someone who has nothing to do with the previous 199 cachers is not productive, but it happens, because rangers are people too. There are just some professions where "we are people too" doesn't cut it. A doctor who is having a bad day shouldn't decide "well, I just lost 4 patients in a row, so why should I bother with this operation, he is only going to die anyway" or "i just got punched in the mouth by one of my patients husband, so I am not going to give the best care possible." Law enforcement should follow the same concept. I understand the job is more stressful than most. You see crap everyday that makes you question humanity's nature. I have friends who are police officers in Philadelphia and the stories they tell me can bring you to tears. But it still does not excuse you to go wail on anyone you choose just because you see bad things. If a ranger has to deal with a bunch of drink rednecks hunting in the woods, and snide teenagers skinny dipping in the lake, then a rude driver going to fast on the access roads, that doesn't give him the right to go get nasty and intimidating with someone else in the park who is doing something completely legal and bothering nobody. I am sorry if I am coming off angry about this, but I do not want to hear excuses for the behavior and conduct of some meathead who is too ignorant to do some research on a subject before he starts paying lip service to a law abiding citizen. We pay too much taxes, have to put up with too much government, and deal with too much crap to have to have our day and hobby ruined by some power abusing meat head. Again, no excuses. Perhaps... if we as a society could put our "self centered egos" on a back shelf along with the "attitude" that comes along with most of them and not feed off of or belittle another's "ego" just to empower our own, live and let live...just "be" in the moment, then maybe, just maybe, we would find ourselves living in a world of true peace with each other. In order to truly understand this concept you must first let go of your "ego".

Here's another one that comes to mind..."Here we go round the Mulberry Bush" !

So what your really saying is your a "Domestic Engineer"!! Kewl!!

Yesterday while out caching we found in one a small piece of paper that had something wrapped up in it. The word "blue" was written on the outside. We unwrapped it to find a a clear capsule type pill with some blue stuff in it. We wrapped it back up, left it in the cache and when we got home we notified the cache owner. We thought how strange, and hope it wasn't a way for some local kids to be passing along drugs.

My Husband owns his own business...lawn & landscaping. I work at an Animal Hospital.

Start a TB of your very own that has a pic of you both on your wedding day, place it in a cache with a goal of traveling around the world and ending up back in the very same cache you placed it in, in 80 days.

Have your friends and family gift wrap your wedding gifts in ammo cans and assorted cache containers, hide them and then give you the cords to find them!!! Design your wedding cake after the most memorable cache container you both have found together. There's a thread on here about songs played while your caching...pick your wedding music from that list. Congrats to both of you and may you have a long happy life of caching!!!

This is very similiar to what my wife and I do. I am the one who gets to do the dirty work, while she plays escort. Now when we get to one without mud, briars, thorns, bugs, you know the "icky" stuff then she all game. We've also learned that it works best if she drives and lets me work the "gadgets". I've learned to do a lot of compromising, but I find that it is worth it for the two of us. That is exactly what my husband and I do. I drive, he works the gadgets, we argue over his directions Sometimes I send him in to get the cache and other times we both go for it. I'm learning that I can survive some of the hunts that include mud, briars, thorns, bugs and yes the "icky" stuff. He even got me knee high muck boots for x-mas!!!

Although we don't listen to music while out caching, this topic got me to thinking what song would come to mind if we did. Hmmm....I thought and what comes to mind is the "Hokie Pokie" You stick your right arm in, you pull your right arm out, you stick your right arm in and you twist it all about, you do the hokie pokie and you turn yourself around...that's what it's all about!

INSANE!!!! Heck no....Geo Cachers are all normal...it's the rest of the population that's insane!!!!

No, this wouldn't bother us. In fact, it would inspire us. We most likely would look at it as a challenge to create a type of hide that would break his or her FTF mode. We enjoy this game. For us it's no longer about how many smilies we have, heck we haven't even had our very own FTF yet, it's really about the journey and the really cool places these journey's take us on. We have had several finds, a few DNF's and have even placed a few hides of our very own. It certainly has been a toss up as to which aspect we like the best as we both have had as much fun with each. One day, we hope to experience a FTF, until then we'll just keep on enjoying the journey and the challenges the journey brings to us. They say it takes all types to make the world go round...same holds true for this game.

Wow you guys are great I'm learning more every day and I hope others that read this thread do also. Thanks! BTW I've got all my problems resolved, still messy and will be using other methods as mentioned above in the future. I've found the best way to learn is to jump in with both feet and struggle a little what don't kill you makes you stronger. I'll probably never write from scratch and dazzle anyone with my coding abilities (use to work on mainframes - SDL, Cobol, NDL, WFL, DMSII, Algol - Unisys systems so I've done that been there and it's not what I'm here for). Mircocomputer age started at the end of my tenure so it's a lot like knowing nothing and starting over.

I like micros. I like other caches, also, but I really enjoy a micro. I like that they can be hidden just about anywhere. I like that I can go to completely ordinary places that people go to all the time and find a cache and the rest of the world doesn't have a clue. There's only two things you really need to consider when hiding a cache:Does the cache meet the guidelines? Would you enjoy finding this cache? If the answer to those two questions is 'yes', you should go for it. I Agree, I'm a newbie to so to speak. I've done a couple hides and the feed back has been great so I'm doing something right. None are Micros and all bring you to someplace worthy of the effort. They are well planned and thought out (yet some still got Jet Skied...LOL - my last one solved that issue too). I'm still learning and probably will be for a long time to come. I did listen to several Cacher's advice - wait until you've done at least 100 caches so you get a feel for what is enjoyable and what's not. This is good solid advise as my concepts are still changing. It doesn't matter the size you'll find interesting things and bad things - I have found it necessary to carry extra logs and baggies to doctor up caches both regular and micros but mostly micros as now days 35mm film has been replaced by digital there seems to be an overwhelming amount of extra film cans available and they do not make good dry containers - they all leak each and every one will after enough use. Baggies well you can't get 1oz freezer bags to my knowledge so they wear out too. Log space is limited thus usually full. Yes, when I see a cache that is damaged I try my best to resolve it for the owner and save them a trip by replacing the baggies or add more log or I've even replaced a few containers that were damaged if I happen to have the exact type. Old wet logs that would do nothing more than generate mold I bring back and offer to mail to the owner (so far out of 4 like that not one owner wanted the old log - go figure). Why? I do this out of appreciation for the hide, my fellow Cachers and the game itself. That being said I've found that it's not the size that counts, heck not even the number of smilies - it's really about the hunt and the journey! Even poor hides/containers can be a blast mixed in with the others along a route. I also find that caching with another couple or group driving around like a bunch of teenagers out to have fun can be most entertaining. What I don't care for is the missing caches that haven't been archived and the owner is slow to check on. I don't like being the one who went on the wild goose chase only to find Velcro. I almost feel the owner should grant a find if you discover the hide but the container has vanished. But I don't care about the numbers, it's more about if I would ever return to that area once it's fixed after I've cleared most of what was there. It's not a perfect world - so if you find there are types you don't care for don't do them - the ability to omit those from your query is quite simple. Reminds me of the folks that complain about TV programs etc. - why not just change the channel. One more thing I've learned... Be happy Cache On!

Thanks for the help everyone! I was able to get it working using NVU - really nice tool to work with. Still has a loose tag someplace but I ran out of time. Hope to fix tonight. I'm glad to report my error didn't stop our local cachers - FTF doglvr! Cool thing is that is the very one that inspired the cache in the first place! WooHoo life is great and I'm a happy cacher!

First of all I have no clue what I'm doing with this HTML stuff and I know the best advise is then don't do it... But I must have a decent introduction to my cache. I'm trying to put out only decent quality caches at least for now... Someday perhaps evil twisted micros where you'd least expect it. I read on GC somewhere you can just create till your hearts content on word save it as html copy that sucker right on in there an wala presto bingo it works... Well we all know there's a little more to it and I've figured most of it out so I think. To me it's real sloppy but what do I know. But that's how I do it. Anyway I've only done 3 and it's this third one that isn't cooperating - works great on Firefox which I thought everybody uses these days... But it doesn't load any pictures from my part of the code in IE... But does show the background? All pics hail from the same source the gallery of the cache page of course (I don't have a place of my own that will work for this). Okay IE doesn't show pictures on the cache page of GC19RFJ Firefox does just fine. I didn't get any script errors that I know of even with display all set? I'm real green and well some folks say I'm a little slow but pa says I'm just ignorant is all.. So take it Slooow K. I apologize if this is the 15,000 time someone has had this I did a search, scanned the first 4 pages and just gave up and asked. Thanks in advance for your time. Vince