Flatouts

I was at a local CITO event last Saturday and a few of us were walking along a road collecting trash. We had stopped in the shade of a nice tree to rest for a few minutes, when I just so happened to really look at the tree trunk and said to the others..."That's an odd place for a piece of trash to land....ah...hey...it's not trash...It's a cache!!!!!" I then did my fond it dance... It was wedged in a V shaped part of the trunk and I was standing about 20 feet away. It was a big tree. We signed the log but didn't take anything as we hand nothing but trash...couldn't find a name on it, but when we got back to the main meeting area a few other cachers knew which one it was so we were able to log our find and claim our smile

Unless it's in a close enough orbit for NORAD to track, I doubt it would BE a geocache. It would hafta be a letterbox in space. Just for reference, this is the story from Crake's newsletter that I quoted: I seriously doubt this to be true. Why you may ask me?? For the record, I personally know an individual who works in direct contact with all the astronauts. My husband I had just recently picked up a travel bug from a cache (it was a geocoin from the space coast geocaching assoc.) who's mission was to be taken into space on the shuttle some day. I thought, dang, I know how to make this happen. NOT!!! Long explanation short....everything that is put on the shuttle including the personal belongings the astronauts bring has to be accounted for and most importantly weighed. Yes..."weighed" Right down to the slightest ounce. Anything that is unusual most likely will not be permitted due to the high volume of requests that would follow if word of it got out and NASA doesn't want it's shuttles to be "loaded" down with items that aren't directly involved with it's mission. Only once in a great while might an astronaut be granted permission for such an item, but it takes almost an act of congress and a ton of red tape to get it approved. She said the chances of getting something such as a travel bug and/or geocoin would fair better if you asked Russia to it, but that would cost you more money than most people would ever see in a lifetime. Next time I see my friend, I'll have to ask her about the above mentioned geocoin carried by Dr Stan Love. I KNOW Chris Rake as a serious person and a smart business man. I'll take HIS word for it until proven wrong by you because your husband knows some guys..... I'll wait.... I seriously doubt he would risk his reputation as a quality coin maker on a stretch of the truth, nor would he go to the trouble of designing a special edition of the coin that went into space to celebrate for no good reason. He just isn't the type.... Perhaps my wording was a bit to harsh. Let me say kudos to Chris Rake for accomplishing the task of getting a geocoin up there on the shuttle. I thinks it's great that he did!!! Please re-read my OP, I stated that "I personally know an individual", not my husband, and that I"ll have to ask "her", not "some guys my husband knows". I was just stating the facts that were told to me by my friend, who is one of the last persons to check the astronauts and approve of their personal belongings before boarding the shuttle. She in fact was so intrigued by my request that she went to her higher ups and asked if this could be granted and she was told hands down NO WAY!!! NASA is well aware if geocaching and if word of it were to get out that this happened, they would be flooded with other requests regarding the same of which is a bridge they would rather not cross. I just happened to ask her about it right around the Feb '08 launch, which is why she went to her higher ups. Guess I should have posted the long explanation to start with... Please Snoogans...no hard feelings here. We each know an individual of which we hold a high regard for as speaking the "truth" and not wanting to "risk their reputations". Please keep us posted about weather or not you friend gets a copy of the personal items list for that mission. It will be cool to see the other kinds of things they take along with them.

Unless it's in a close enough orbit for NORAD to track, I doubt it would BE a geocache. It would hafta be a letterbox in space. Just for reference, this is the story from Crake's newsletter that I quoted: I seriously doubt this to be true. Why you may ask me?? For the record, I personally know an individual who works in direct contact with all the astronauts. My husband I had just recently picked up a travel bug from a cache (it was a geocoin from the space coast geocaching assoc.) who's mission was to be taken into space on the shuttle some day. I thought, dang, I know how to make this happen. NOT!!! Long explanation short....everything that is put on the shuttle including the personal belongings the astronauts bring has to be accounted for and most importantly weighed. Yes..."weighed" Right down to the slightest ounce. Anything that is unusual most likely will not be permitted due to the high volume of requests that would follow if word of it got out and NASA doesn't want it's shuttles to be "loaded" down with items that aren't directly involved with it's mission. Only once in a great while might an astronaut be granted permission for such an item, but it takes almost an act of congress and a ton of red tape to get it approved. She said the chances of getting something such as a travel bug and/or geocoin would fair better if you asked Russia to it, but that would cost you more money than most people would ever see in a lifetime. Next time I see my friend, I'll have to ask her about the above mentioned geocoin carried by Dr Stan Love.

Wow this is a tough one... Best... Not sure but a couple stand out for sure. Went on a wild ride through Rockledge & Ventura FL with the Jailbirds several times both more fun than should be allowed - numbers I don't remember probably 10 or so caches. Spent the day after Thanksgiving in VA Beach, VA caching with family about 8 of us or so and went into swamps, beautiful parks with all the leaves turning and braved the 20 degrees with 15MPH + winds. Onlookers at MT Trashmore must have got a laugh as we did a most cool cache (Dead Reckoning) that had us wondering all over the place - 8+ people and Bailey the GeoDog (Cream Standard Poodle) - all in a line following each step of instruction - absolutely hilarious. Caching in Maryland this past fall with Daughter, Son-In-Law and Granddaughter (while visiting for her first Birthday) - I don't know how to describe it being together caching in the foot hills - Breath taking doesn't quite do it. Went on a run with Clan Riffster & Jailbirds through the Big Little Econ in Oveido FL the day was filled with mud, slime, snakes, spiders, walking across palm trees over fast moving water and climbing around and up trees to retrieve caches. It may have only been a couple miles round trip but it took all day. The day we brought Clan Riffster, Jailbirds & FLnativefly into Orlando to do some caching - Started in Oviedo FL and cached in the rain for hours and then headed into Orlando for some of the real cool ones. Bridges over Fern Creek being one that stands out - we explored it and surrounding area for hours with Clan Riffster and then he did a couple of our hides (the others had parted by then). We got to sit back and watch as Crocodile Riffster (it's a bit like bringing Crocodile Dundee into the big city only it was Riffster and the city was Orlando) go through the process all the way to success. Then there was the day we (just the wife and I) went into downtown Orlando and power cached I don't remember how many we got but it was like 10 or so... Seems the few DNFs were the most fun.. Oh yeah, there was a weekend we attempted to go to a Meet and Great in Lakeland Fl but were way to late - so we (me & my better half) decided what the heck we'd cache our way there and back and did 20 or maybe slightly over when an officer requested for our safety we stop politely pointing out it was very dark and we were on a dangerous roadway - heck I hadn't noticed it was dark and here it was almost 10pm... Then there's the UCF run with the Clan Riffsters in the rain (hum every time we cache with them it rains...) This time we were stopped by officers for looking for a cache in a parking garage (Kramer where did you park the car) but they were nice and tried to help using their flashlights - we actually had to stop them from taking stuff apart... Ah us cachers don't chance destruction of property there officer... LOL We did a Web cache too to escape the rain and wrapped up with about 10 caches... This past weekend our first CITO event in the Big Little Econ where we met a lot of folks that we could match faces with names and even met a family from France and did a few caches with them... My wife found a cache while we were picking up trash didn't even have GPSr's on, we found Sharks?? (you must under stand this is in the middle of the state not many sharks venture this far inland especially on land) However, they did win our team Most Unusual trash find. Later that same day Clan Riffster & the Jailbirds followed us back into Orlando where we watched as they did our caches and beta tested a new one coming out in about a week or less.. Nope can't chance saying we've had our best day yet Not sure we ever will be able to either. Heck I can't even say which is better doing caches or watching others do yours??? What I do know is it's a blast all the time. To us It's all about the journey and the friends you make along the way that enrich the experience. Cache On!

Wow a lot of opinions here on this issue/thread... I create lame caches in a lame urban area that only allows and likes lame caches is that so bad, I'm just trying to blend in... Proof: Look at my caches and see the comments on the ones that aren't multi or puzzles (folks around these here parts don't do those sorts)... Okay you can look at the few comments on those too... A hide is a hide - somebody thought it would be good or they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Most are probably done by folks that learn by example - so therefore you probably are only seeing a reflection of the area. Me I'm a rebel of sorts - I found out through reading these here threads that people seem to hate micros but if you look at their stats (not all just the leading complainers) that the bulk of their numbers come from "micros" - hum. I've seen at least one poll where micro's in the woods won out against ammocans? Hum I've seen a bunch of threads on creative (you guest it) Micros with all sorts of praise from the very folks on this thread. If you take all that into consideration there is apt to be a wide range of micros created. People who like em will make more and people who prefer ammocans will make more hides like that. What makes this game/sport (again difference of opinion) fun is the wide range and verity. To me it's all good. It's also quite addicting... I think everyone is right in their own way and truly appreciate their opinions that they express. I am also really glad that GS doesn't limit the creativity any more than it already has to. It takes a lot on the behalf of others who volunteer their time to make this work and I really really appreciate their efforts too. The truth is it's up to you to do the ones you prefer and not do the ones you don't... (This reminds me of folks complaining about TV programs - they could just change the channel and it would be a lot easier than having what they don't like removed from the network - JMHO) I still feel bad for puzzles and multi stages - they seem to be the most disliked - yet usually are more challenging and fun... weird huh. Anyway what do I know I'm just another newbie... Hey if something bugs you on here then you probably should be out caching anyway... Thank you ALL for helping us newbies grow and learn by your experience and example! Vince (of the Flatouts) Cache On!

5.1 miles

743 miles north of us.

Not sure where you are located nor how many actually log their caches in the http://www.handicaching.com/ Most folks key off the terrain - I'd say any thing 1.5 or less should be accessible - most always assistance for the grab will be needed unless noted otherwise. Because I grew up with my mother being fully devoted to working with disabled I try to make my Caches accessible and include http://www.handicaching.com/ info. But that's simply not always possible. I know from experience of taking handicap students to Disney here in Florida along with many other attractions and summer camps that one shouldn't underestimate their abilities and think GeoCaching would be a lot of fun. Might not be able to do alone but then Geocaching alone probably isn't a good idea these days anyway. Sample Cache of mine: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...cd-0a5a41614a5c See the Gold seal next to the FTF - that link takes you to a description on the www.handicaching.com site where they have a little different way of weighing out the difficulty rating. Hope that helps make it enjoyable for her. Vince Cache On!

I think I found it - in fact pretty darn sure - Epcot--Parking Lot in Walt Disney World Benchmarks http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMCDF Cool Thanks for a the info and now I've learned even more - Never Give Up The Hunt! Cache On!

Thank you all so much for the help! Very cool! On the regulars I've done the 5 near us and logged them. But then I have 3-4 that aren't in the database - I have pictures, but after looking I've wiped out the coordinates on the GPSr... But I can always go and get them again. The Disney one was just so cool - We were on our way back to the car when I stopped to clear out something in my shoe and just as I stepped up onto the curb there it was - so I took a quick picture that came out perfect. But like a big dummy I didn't mark it as the GPSr was in the car. I know where it is and might be able to google very close... Not planning on going back to the park for a little while. I have a couple friends that work in the parks but not sure they would be of help. Maybe someone on here works the Epcot park and with a description and google coords could locate and get actual coordinates. I'll get as much as possible together and send it to you WinterTime. Again my experience on these forums is unlike any other I've ever experienced and being an avid fishermen I've been on a lot of informative forums. Thank you all very much! Vince Cache On!

oops a double posting cause by Internet - end tag error - they should allow us to delete our own errors... I'm used to being a admin on another forum so this bugs me bunches...

Florida - creepy crawlies & black snakes - your kidding me - how could that be - The cache owner probably didn't notice em as that is pretty typical of Florida if you venture off the sidewalk - you might as well skip caching here then. Sorry I'm a native and well I hear this stuff all the time - ewe bugs - we are subtropical, we have bugs, lots of em. We have snakes and big ole alligators (just large lizards actually) too. I love tromping in the swamps and woods - but that isn't for every body that's why we put out LPH & Virtuals in Disney for our visitors. Seriously, I'm just pulling your leg - it's not that bad, yes we have some bugs and stuff - it just depends on the type of caching you like - if you don't go for that sort of stuff - don't do those types of caches. I suspect this is true everywhere. The more I read the more I find that paperless caching defeats the purpose of having a cache page in the first place. I can't speak for other cachers - but I spend a good amount of time on the cache page to insure safe, legal & fun caching experience. I try to do more than just stick a film canister under a lamp skirt - I try to bring you someplace you might not otherwise venture or see something worth the trouble to get there. When I read stuff like this it makes me wonder why I waste my time. Perhaps I'm going about it all wrong... I'm a newbie what do I know. BTW I really don't place swamp hides I just like doing them... Okay so one is kinda swampy but it's in a really cool park (not released yet - coming very soon)... Vince (of the Flatouts) Cache On!

Yes we are on the same page / wavelength! However there are two lines of thought here; 1) Would be sometimes you come up to a cache and it's not hidden - perhaps the cacher before you or even mother nature has left it reveled... Usually that's pretty obvious... But this also depends on where it is - if it's 10 miles into the forest and the last 1,000 foot was up the side of a mountain range with heavy bush whacking for the last three hours - perhaps it wasn't necessary - READ THE DARN CACHE PAGE FOLKS! 2) I read a cache page one time that stated as a clue that during certain times of day the cache is more visible - being a silver bison tube the sun in the afternoon would reflect upon it. A cacher posted a note that he/she had found this one several times and lived close by - with that said this cacher decided to help out by doing some maintenance - so they took it home and put some camo tape or something to that effect and put it back a couple days or so later only now it's better hidden. Needless to say that was almost a year ago and we've blocked it off our to do list - since we've pretty much cached out that area anyway I doubt we'll see how good of a job that cacher did to the Hider's cache & hide. We opted not to do it because it wasn't what the page/hide was about anymore. If it were my hide I'd pull it - game over! Do Not Alter another persons hide - sometimes a little maintenance can go to far. I replace logs and bags if needed (I'll note that in my log online - if the log is FUBAR I'll take it home try to salvage, email the owner and offer to mail it to them). I also carry an empty film canister (as they are pretty darn popular in these here parts) if the repair goes beyond that it falls back on the Cacher Owner to maintenance - if that doesn't happen then it's up to someone to adopt or GS to Archive. I realize the gesture is done out of kindness - but less is more sometimes. I do wish that cacher would go around and police some of my caches that aren't put back right and are sitting in plain view as they will surely get muggled - being one of a kind and some took hours of artwork or prep time, I can assure you they will not be replaced. However, if someone was to take one and alter it we would have words and they wouldn't be very nice. The reality is that we are all learning constantly, some quicker than others - Experienced Cachers are capable of making the same mistakes too! Although mush less frequently. How dare I say such a thing - because I've gone behind some and well the cache wasn't returned as found - I know cause they were my caches. Oh and for sake of argument - there was nothing wrong with the hide - and I can also assure you they were not in plan sight of the general public. I guess what I'm saying is if you want to see some of my work you best hurry... So far so good none have come up missing yet - Ah I probably shouldn't have said that huh... Course it could be that nobody seems to be caching here much lately or my hides have the proverbial stench of a newbie hide? IDK Vince of the Flatouts Cache On!

I'm sorry but figuring out this benchmark stuff is beyond me - I find Survey Disk etc. all the time but none are ever in the database or I have no idea how to work it. It gets to a point where it's not worth the hassle and I give up. The other day we visited Epcot in Disney World and I stumbled upon a Disney Bench Mark Survey Disk - complete with Mickey Mouse Ears - BM 1757272 - really cool so I snapped a picture and it came out great. Alas it's nowhere to be found - I bet I have a doz or so that I've snapped off a good picture but ran into a stone wall of confusion trying to figure out what if anything to do with it. I'd like to have a coin made with this new Disney one I found - hate to even think of what that would entail. Feeling useless turns me off... I guess I just need to go back to hunting Tupperware in the woods... Leave this grown up stuff to the grownups.

I'm not one to point out typos, I make them all the time - but this time I'm a bit nervous about one . An abcess is a pus filled infection . I tend to think it may be an obsession. Other than that, I agree with your post. We are often the same way. Your right, squeeze the abcess...it's an obsession. Either way, I think we need help!!!

It's become a journey that we're abscessed with sorta, kinda...well let's see...We used to fish and shrimp all the time and I can't really remember the last time we did that since we started caching a year ago. Yes it has changed our lives, we look at things differently now. I can't even go food shopping without thinking...hmm that would make a great hide or wonder if there's a cache under that skirt..lol Yesterday as a matter of fact we went to Epcot and I'm standing there looking at this gray box thing and I said to my husband..."Dang, wonder if it's a ammo in plain view" My son was like.."Mom, you got it bad, real bad"

One year anniversary of caching this month and we have have just over 200 finds, none of which have been a FTF. For us it's not about FTF...it's about the journey. Oh yeah...it's not about the numbers either!!!

Thank you all for all that you do.

Every couple of years I like to place clues for my kids (who are now grown adults) around the house at X-Mas time and send them on a hunt for one of their x-mas gifts. This past year we gave my future son-in-law a GPSr for x-mas. My husband and I thought about loading it up with the cords to take him and my son out around the neighborhood to find my son's x-mas gift in an ammo box of which would have been hidden in our back yard. However, time ran out and we never got around to it. But who's to say that this year we won't do that to one of them!!! As a kid myself growing up, the closest I've come was just the standard hide and seek. Some of these games you all talk about sound really cool and makes me wonder why I never heard of them as a child.

Then can you do the same for this thread...lock it and archive it?? Hey..where did the mod's post go???

Agenda....Agenda...Agenda (think The Brady Bunch here lol) An Agenda or Not an Agenda? (Isn't that the question to which there hasn't been a defined answer to yet?) So what's on "YOUR" Agenda today? (Oh my...now there's one that could be perceived wrong, misinterpreted...etc) Got Agenda? The aforementioned verbiage are sample's for use on T-shirt's to pay tribute to this thread. (<agenda or not an agenda? or just simply a statement?) Hmmm...... I agenda we move on from this discussion as the horse has long since died. As for the OP and the Powers that Be who make up the rules...this really is between you both. It' doesn't matter if I think it is or isn't an agenda. I'm not saying either way...cause it's not about me and what I perceive it to be.

We have snakes here in Orlando, only came across one that I was aware of. However, we have two hides out that each have received a or log or two about a snake hanging out next to the cache. As with any journey you take out into mother nature's world, always use caution when going into the habitat of all her creatures. Be respectful, use common sense and heed their warnings if one is given and you should do just fine. I don't like snakes, but I do respect them and will call upon the cache again when the snakes not home home.

Great advice at all caches! Jerry, the only time I saw Vince looking green was after eating my cooking at a BBQ. Hey Riff....you cooking something for the Q tomorrow???

We're a mixed Marriage Garmin & Magellan - they often differ sometimes a good bit - the really weird thing is the Magellan Explorist 500LE is usually right on the money?? The Garmin 60CSx seems to have more trouble in cover?? We were told to look 30' ahead at least of our GPSr - putting the units away at 30' from GZ and use Geosenses - sometimes this works the best. If nothing else it helps us understand the hide better. (I still have a tenancy to look at mine - just as reference mind you...lol) Vince of Flatouts

What about Orlando Florida - central Florida actually - seems a lot of folks come to visit us from other countries and US states - perhaps it's Mickey they actually come for and just say it's for the Caches...lol Seems like everywhere we go there's Caches to do - life is good!