-CJ-

Since situation with trackables is rather special in our area I don't leave them in any geocaches around here. They come with me to my country, make several visits to caches and then I retrieve them to outside the country. So, it is for the safety reasons. After all, I rarely take any trackables from containers. A trackable with a mission to visit Russia is an exception.

OZ2CPU, to make my words clear, when I was talking about "our Russian community" I meant not geocaching.com players but the Russian geocaching website which is rather different. The reason for me to drop my opinion here is to mention that the Russian site has already run into troubles with that "different style of playing". Some things that are considered "individual style of playing" here have already grown up widescale somewhere in the world. It's like virtual geocaches banned at this website in 2005. Would you like to know what would happen if they have never been banned? I can show you because I have this example "at hand". So, it's not "my" or my kind of game. It's a kind of game played at another geocaching website which could serve as an example. When people say "why cannot I mark my own cache as found" I always remember how people said "why cannot I mark that muggled cache as found" first, and finally "why cannot I mark that unfound cache as found - hey, I've already sent you a photolog", etc.

Never had a thought of logging my own cache as found. For what reason? I actually didn't find it, I hid it. Let people "play the game they like", see the example of our Russian community. A cache seeker comes to a cache location, spends half an hour searching, finds nothing, logs this cache as found. "I was here and honestly made an attempt". CO: "But you didn't find it!". Seeker: "Not so important. It's my style of playing". CO: "OK, no big deal". After a couple of years the same CO discovers that many people log his caches as found without actually finding them. "This is how we play geocaching". On the other hand, I'm not sure about how to suggest people to log caches they assisted me to hide. They actually didn't find them. However they are not COs too. For the majority of people in these forums it is not so important because you guys have thousands of finds and even more you can find next years. So I think you may pay no attention to the lack of 10-15 of "finds" of geocaches that you actually helped to place. In our area there are still very few geocaches so it's pity if one cannot neither own nor find a new cache. In such circumstances some people choose even not to come to geocaching events. They prefer to visit the caches that were placed at the events afterwards - when they can log them as found without any hesitations. Is it really good to lack people at events for such reason? I bet it's not. Just the same with geocaches I help to restore. I come to the GZ and discover that the cache is missing. Then I call the CO, explain the situation in details, he agrees that the cache is not there, I suggest my assistance, he says "wow, thank you, it's very kind of you", I replace the container, logbook, pencil, souvenirs, trackables... and cannot log this cache as found. Why? I actually didn't find the cache, I restored it. I noticed that some people here prefer to pass by and not help to restore a muggled geocache even if they pass by the GZ every day. They just wait until CO restores it so they can go there after him and get their smiley without any hesitations.

I've deleted such logs to lower chances for local cache thieves to find out that a cache which had been stolen was back in game. This may sound ridiculous but when you have to replace dozens of your caches per year you use different ways to make their life as long as possible.

Depends on the area and the owner. In some cases I won't do anything but add a sheet of paper if a logbook is full. For instance, if I travel abroad and look for a nano in a big city, its owner being a resident of this city and active. I will most probably do only minor repairings if needed. However if it is about a cache on a mountain ridge I understand quite clearly that it may take days/weeks/months to get there to even the most active CO so why should I just pass by if it takes 5 minutes for me to solve the problem? I don't make any difference between "replacing a logbook" and "replacing a container" since both are just technical issues (excluding special hand-made containers/logbooks of course). My decision is also influenced by the attitude of a CO to his cache. For instance, I recently found a "cache" - a small piece of paper wrapped in old duct tape. This was the style that the CO played. Should I replace this stuff with a brand new logbook and a good container? I didn't.

If I fail to find a cache in reasonable time (this depends on its difficulty according to its description) I usually stipulate some additional time for searches - depending on circumstances. Sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 2 hours.

Traditional caches in really interesting locations. Especially those that get me acquainted with some places that cannot be found in popular guides. Something special that I would definitely miss without paying attention to this cache.

For me one of the greatest values of geocaching is the opportunity to choose from a variety of caches. Much like movies. If I'm a fan of good old comedies with Charlie Chaplin I would most probably choose one of such comedies or similar movies to watch with my family on Saturday evening. If I don't like horror movies I simply don't watch them. So, I don't complain about a disgusting tasteless movie that I wasted two hours on. Sometimes a movie title may leads to confusion, e.g. it is "Nice love story" and the movie actually tells about some chainsaw massacre. But having certain experience I usually guess the idea in first five or ten minutes and this is enough to switch my TV off. So, it's just about avoiding movies that are far from my interests and tastes. Same with geocaches. I most probably won't go to hunt a cache located "near a hotel where we stopped for night last year". This cache may be important to its owner (some warm memories probably) but I see nothing special in this location so why should I choose it if there are many geocaches in (maybe) more interesting places in the area? This is not about different "standards of quality". I know that there are people who go for every cache they can, enjoy power trails, etc. I don't wan't to say that my approach is better than their, no. It's just different style of enjoying the game. One of obviously positive sides of my attitude is that I rarely hesitate about "how not to offend the CO of this really poor cache in my log" because there are not so many poor caches on my way

So a souvenir for Russia will be introduced at about 2022-24. Too much work, too much work. As I'm not planning any foreign trips for August I don't think that this "souvenir madness" will influence my geocaching schedule much. However I'm also thinking about an event on Aug 17 (Geocaching Day). As far as I understood attending this meeting will also bring a "daily" souvenir for Aug 17, right? If it is so, I will probably log all geocaches found in August at this very date. And yes, maybe this issue is taken too seriously but we here are at that stage when people are getting involved into the game and make their acquaintance with different aspects of it. Introducing them a long list of "daily" souvenirs as common practice may lead to misunderstanding so folks don't catch the idea of souvenirs at all.

I would agree with you but I wasn't actually talking about abandoned, unmaintained caches. The question is about those COs who play actively and are members of local geocaching communities.

Sounds not so difficult. A LPC at some really dirty place (with a couple of throwdowns at the neighbouring lampposts). One meter distance to a wall of military installation with a "Trespassers will be shot dead" plaque and a CCTV camera. No container and logbook, just a small piece of wet paper full with "TFTC" logs in a cracked tic-tac plastic box. No parking. No hints. This hide should be the end of a 12km walk (described as a 1.2 km walk at the website) involving crossing of some bogs with 10 similar steps/spots where one has to count trees in woods and exhausting calculations (final coordinates should be 50 meters off). This walk should be preceded by a complex puzzle with a couple of mistakes in it translated from some unknown language into English with Google Translate. This is how it could look like. You're welcome to add more ideas to this. One who decides to place such a geocache should certainly abandon it and don't reply to any logs and PMs.

Yes, I was talking about active COs. Great. Could you explain why has the situation changed?

My question is addressed to those geocachers who are members of local geocaching communities. I know guidelines so I'm not asking about who's responsible for maintenance. The question is if there are any informal agreements (traditions, common practice) within your local community to help each other with maintenance issues? The background for this question is my personal attempt to build such agreements in my city. We here have no geocaching community yet though there is some number of active cachers. I tried to organise them in a way that all we are not obliged but are very welcomed to assist each other with maintenance, especially in cases of emergency. E.g. when you walk by some location and see there are workers around that started repairings you don't just pass by ("I found this cache already so I don't care" or "I'll post a NM message since this cache is probably gone") but check if the container is still in place and probably call its owner to find out if he/she needs assistance with moving the cache to a safer location. By this time my attempts were not much fruitful. In last year I helped to maintain 12 caches that I don't own in my city (when I was on a hunt or went to check my own caches) and checked numerous hides (that appeared to be OK). None of my geocaches (they were stolen 30 times last year "thanks" to a local cache thief - I restored all these caches by my own) was maintained by any other cacher whom I know (including those who had already gained from my assistance). I didn't start any discussion on this matter within our local circle of geocachers. Perhaps my intentions were not within traditions of other geocaching communities at all. Or maybe I'm on the right way but don't take into account some important things. (Any good advice would be welcomed).

To close this topic: I contacted all trackable owners and all of them sent me their answers. They approved the idea of waiting for a while and taking their items to the exotic location rather than releasing them to other hands quickly.

Sprays, yes; and we check ourselves regularly of course. Proper clothing. Tick extractors (simple/cheap but effective). Regular vaccination against encephalitis. Never tried Tea Tree Oil however. Thanks for this advice.

1. Caches in places that are of no interest to me. "This nano is devoted to my son Charlie who was born 15 years ago in a hospital nearby". 2. All puzzles that require too much homework. (I prefer spending time outdoors). 3. Puzzles with "national-specific" tasks that I'm not able to solve (e.g. a puzzle with description in Finnish language requiring good knowledge and understanding of Finnish poetry). 4. Multi-steps that require driving between steps and/or too many steps. 5. Multi-steps that require too much calculations like (A+B*C/(D+32)-(E/F+157))*14+324... 6. Virtuals, webcams and whereigos. 7. Caches in places where I've already been and don't want to return once again. All this applies to foreign trips only. In our area I don't ignore any geocaches (technically): I need all of them on the map when I place my own geocaches (to follow the 161m guideline). In practice, I ignore some caches of the mentioned categories plus those placed by people whom I believe to be unfriendly for any reasons.

Not always.

Funny examples

I translated the announcement about the August challenge in Russian, posted it to our local community and got my souvenir yesterday by finding a cache. My two kopecks as one living is a country with less than 30 caches not many caches The August race would mean little to us here if there was just one souvenir for a whole streak. It's almost impossible to make a strike here. Besides, August is the worst month for geocaching adventures of this kind because many people used to have vacations and leave their cities - and the only two places where you could attempt a streak in this country are Moscow and Saint-Petersburg. I personally will travel to the Urals in August, there's 1 (one) geocache in the area that I hope to find, it will take me 1.5 days by train, 3 hours by bus and at least 2 days of hiking to get there if weather is fine. As for a souvenir for each day in August I agree that it's a strange idea but it doesn't make me feel better or worse since, again, I know that not many cachers will search for geocaches intensively in August. (Though I understand that people who go for a hunt frequently may be against dozens of similar souvenirs in their profiles). On the other hand I would agree that such action may raise some questions. People may ask: "A souvenir just to go outdoors and find a cache? Why don't we have a souvenir for any of Russian regions? Not even one for the whole country? No souvenirs for the neighboring countries? Then, are souvenirs really valuable? You say that travelling 3,000 kilometers to Russia and finding a cache in taiga or mountains isn't worth a souvenir while walking to the closest parking lot to grab another LPC is OK for getting one?"

1. Start with the easiest variants. Traditional geocaches - not puzzles. Standard (at least small) containers - not nanos. Difficulty level of 1-1.5 - not 3 and above. 2. Choose caches where you don't need much stealth skill. A cache in a large park where you can feel more comfortable when searching could be better than a cache on a busy street in the centre of a city. 3. Don't hesitate using hints. There's nothing wrong in using hints. Read the cache description carefully. Sometimes all necessary data is already included, people just don't pay attention. 4. Read other people's logs. Especially the latest logs. If the list ends with several DNFs in a row it could be not the best variant for a hunt. Look at the uplodaded photos (image gallery), they could help you too. On the other hand, a cache which was successfully found 5 times within the last week could be a good choice. 5. Don't stuck at just one geocache. Do some planning for your trip, download several caches to your device. If you cannot find some cache in reasonable time don't be too upset and move to your second cache. You will most probably get more geocaching experience after finding 4 of 5 selected caches than after spending hours at the very first location with no results at all. This experience may help you to find the first tricky cache afterwards. Actually, there are tons of different caches, ways of camouflage, containers, etc. This difference is one of the greatest features of this sport. Anyone can choose a cache for himself/herself.

To all those who are going to visit geocaches in Moscow. It's quite often that I read in logs about missing caches. We follow and value all reports. Caches disappear mostly because they are stolen by vandals. Unfortunately this issue became common in last 1.5 years. The Moscow-based geocaching community is rather small and it does its best to maintain geocaches in the capital. However it's not so easy especially when visitors leave no DNFs when they fail to find anything. As a CO I'll be happy to answer all PMs about current situation with my geocaches in the city. Please don't hesitate asking questions before going for a hunt. A small event/meeting could also be a good option.

Thank you!

Looks like I'll manage to get to Ireland this autumn. My 5th visit to this wonderful country. I've never used my chance to meet local geocachers though. Most topics in this forum are related to the UK. From what I know there's Geocaching Ireland website (announced in this thread long ago). However the website looks abandoned, last news dated about 2008. Their forum works but I have problems when trying to register there. I will definitely follow all related announcements and new cache listings at geocaching.com but - does anyone know if there are any other geocaching websites in Ireland?

My first DNF at geocaching.com (in Dublin, Ireland) was after about half an hour of search with no results. The CO noticed my DNF and visited the cache the next day. He wrote that everything was OK. I had done nothing wrong but nevertheless I was a bit ashamed of alarming the CO (and I certainly admired his readiness to go and check the cache). I went there again, did my best and found the cache. It takes me a couple of minutes to locate such hides now. But then it was my very first magnetic micro and I even didn't know how such containers looked like. I remembered this situation years later when just the same happened to one of my geocaches. It was also a magnetic micro in the centre of a large city and first geocachers failed to find it. There were 5 DNFs in a row and one of these guys alarmed our local reviewer (at the national geocaching website). I was contacted and asked for details/explanations. It was not my native city so a simple check would mean a pretty long travel. Luckily, the 6th visitor (who lived just next to the location place) found the cache (in three attempts) and sent me his photo with the container as a proof that the cache was still in place and in good condition. The situation is easy to explain. The city has been crowded with very simple virtuals (not banned at the Russian geocaching website) where visitors used to do no search at all ("Count the number of benches in front of the building and send your answer to the CO"). Geocachers used to think that all hides should be of that type. They simply had no experience in finding traditional micro caches with vague hints and no photo spoilers. They reported DNFs saying "this one is probably gone" and one even logged the cache as NM. Exactly, this is what I say. Of course if I am the first visitor to be at a cache just destoyed by a tornado I will remember your words and follow your advice. Finding myself in such situation is about .00000001% however. With all respect, let me suggest another scenario. If I see a cache on my map (list, GPSr) that has a dozen of DNFs in a row I will most probably ignore it. It makes no sense to me to waste my time and become another one who will fail (especially when I see that the D/T is low and that the previous geocachers were really experienced players). However if I like the description of this place and wish to visit it I would probably drop a message to the CO suggesting my assistance with this cache. If he responds and agrees I'll ask for details, go there and replace the container. Your point of view is clear and I agree with it. It's better to overrate the danger than to ignore it. Again, it depends. To you an obvious problem is a couple of guards with rifles and dogs patroling the perimeter. Some local geocachers would consider a simple micro in the middle of the square to be logged as NM or even NA just because there are "too many muggles" (the fact that is not considered to be a problem that necessarily needs NM/NA at geocaching.com). This is because of differencies in attitude/traditions that many foreign visitors (who come to our area for a hunt) usually do not know.

You've been in this sport since 2003 and have found over 2,000 caches. I consider my experience to be rather small comparing to yours. What seems to be "obvious" to you may seem not so obvious to me. The initial question was addressed to everyone however. So please save some space for us novices who may be not so confident but still can leave (or not leave) NA logs. This what I meant by saying that I was not in this club yet. There are also cultural, judicial and language differencies. If you come to Moscow and place a geocache in a military zone (I don't really think you will ) you may do this by mistake, just because you didn't notice some sign in Russian or misinterpreted it. Or maybe you are not acquainted with some local laws, rules and even traditions. Being a Moscow resident and having good knowledge of all this I could probably evaluate this situation better. However when I come to some foreign country I would most probably avoid making NA conclusions on anyone's geocache even if the violations seem obvious to me.