seventhings

And another distiction between caches and benchmarks is this: when you search for a cache but can't find it, that's generally regarded as a failure. When you search for a benchmark, you succeed whether you find the benchmark, fail to find the benchmark, make a note that the benchmark is inaccessible, or log the benchmark as destroyed. Any and all information about the benchmark's existence, condition and environment is good. The true objective of hunting for benchmarks is the "hunting" part. w

I ditto +++ what Black Dog Trackers says, above. However, there's always the flip side: Were it not for hunting benchmarks, I doubt that I would ever have found myself in the awe-inspiring landscape on the way to the confluence of the Missouri and Yellowstone Rivers in North Dakota, I doubt that I would know and appreciate nearly as much as I do now about my country's history (thanks to the Mason-Dixon Stones and the Lewis and Clark commemorative disks), and I'm sure I would never have left the beaten path to visit Stonington, CT, Kittery, ME, Fort Calhoun, NE, Beaver Creek, MN, Bastrop, LA, and a hundred other places that define who we are as a nation and that were decidely good for me to see. It is a GRAND addiction. Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!

I've teamed up with SIXTHINGS on a very limited number of benchmark hunts, and Mrs. Seventhings has accompanied me on few trips as well. Two people working the problem (even when one of them is not excessively interested) makes it almost too easy. With two sets of eyes and a division of labor between driving/parking and map reading, the average "There it is!" point increases from a few feet when hunting solo to a few dozen yards when hunting as a team. 7

Spoo - That is a great story and great illustration. Very well done. Of course, you've pried open Pandora's box. First, we became compulsive about finding benchmarks. Then, some of us developed a compulsion centered around reporting recoveries to the NGS. Now, you've gone and set a benchmark yourself, and it had nothing to do with earning your livelihood. You've set a hobbyist benchmark. You lead the community in amateur benchmarks set with 1. I'm going over to the Bersten website right now and order two disks immediately. On second thought, Artman's probably already had that idea; better make it THREE. (Hope Me & Bucky doesn't read this thread) (Hope my wife doesn't read this thread). Seriously, Spoo, two thumbs up!! Will

Art - Good job. I know (from trying) that it's hard to get to 30 + marks in a day. Aside from some unusual places (downtown DC, Hoover Dam), it's very difficult to get to more than three to three and one-half marks per hour. 38 marks is a long day, especially in this weather that we've all been complaining about. Now, you should reward your superb effort by taking the next three months off (or no one will ever catch you on the NGS recovery reports). Will

Looks like it does double-duty as a triangulation station and a reference mark. Would it be a "frankendisk" or a "portmanteau mark"? w

I should have added: having lived in New Jersey and Virginia for most of my life (and CA and CO for some of my life), I agree - I'll take the 110/15% over 95/95% any day of the week. (But 117 is pretty wicked hot!) W

bicknell, mloser and BDT - reading your comments on VA-PA heat with interest. I went benchmark hunting in Moapa, NV, (40 miles north of Las Vegas) on July 19th. That was the day Las Vegas hit 117 degrees, an all-time record. I had 20 datasheets but quit after six or seven searches. then, July 27th. 115 at Hoover Dam. w

The "Star of David" is the disk symbol that denotes a "magnetic station".

RE: sub-surface In my experience, marks that are "subsurface" (with no additional descriptive terms included) are below the level of the surounding surface and covered with something, usually dirt, gravel or asphalt. If a mark is in a chamber and covered by a metal plate or cap, the description usually includes that fact. That is, if a mark is just "subsurface", you may have to dig. If a mark is subsurface and covered with a cap, you may have to pry the cap open. If a mark is below the level of the surrounding surface but is not covered with anything, it is usually described as being "recessed". Althouth the above are the "usual" uses of the terms, there is great variation in the field. Recessed and subsurface (or "below the surface" are often used interchangably). W

CP3349 (LA) MESSINGER & ASSOCIATES One-of-a-kind mark: Designation is MESSINGER & ASSOCIATES, and it was set by Messinger & Associates, Professional Land Surveyors, 630 East Jefferson, Ave, Bastrop, LA. Will

How about SS1368 University of Wisconsin (monumented in Great Falls, Montana).

Eagle & Red - I think Red is right about DF8080. I've run into about a dozen "in NGS - not in Geocaching" marks. They all have been monumented in 2000 or later. For this reason, I now generally start my planning on the NGS website by running a list of benchmarks by USGS Quad. Then, I look at the listed PIDs in Geocaching. Seems every Quad has at least one PID that's not in Geocaching because it was monumented recently. (There are also usually several PIDs that are not in Geoching database because they had been classified as DESTROYED in the NGS database before the Geocaching database was created, and another few older PIDs that don't show up in Geocaching for reason(s) that I can't figure). Will

I think holograph has the winner! w

holograph - great job! thanks for the effort. Will

Buck - I've found two indoor marks: JU2233 and, FC1179 and that ArtMan found HV3945 Will

Red - I think it is worthwhile to include your handheld coordinates in both Geocaching logs and NGS recovery reports, if for no other reason than to aid future hunters/users in finding the station. When I report my handheld coordinates in NGS recovery reportrs, I convert the DD-MM.MMM format used in Geocaching to the DD-MM-SS.SS format used in NGS. I report handheld coordinates for marks with scaled horizontal coordinates only. Will

Thad - If it's a tank or standpipe or church spire or something with adjusted horizontal coordinates (so you can locate its former position very accurately) and of a nature that makes it easy to determine reliably that it's not there anymore, then you are on solid footing by logging it as DESTROYED in Geocaching, and on good footing to send an e-mail to Deb for the NGS kill as well. I've gotten Deb to reclassify about 20 intersection stations as DESTROYED, and many of those had no remnants. Often, "Nothing besides remain .... the lone and level sands stretch far away". But it's still classifiable as DESTROYED. Will

Thad - Intersection stations like water tanks, etc. are fairly easy to deal with. Several of us have had success by sending Deb brown an e-mail with one or two photos attached. They usually go something like this: Subject: XX1234 - DESTROYED Deb - I recommend that you reclassify XX12344, BITSKO WATER TANK, as DESTROYED. Background: XX1234 is described as being a 100 foot tall water tank just north of Main Street in the eastern section of Bitsko, NJ. Adjusted coordinates are NXX-XX-XX.12345 W0XX-XX-XX.12345. Observation: There is an empty field at the described location and coordinates. There appears to be ther remnants of concrete footings, and a capped pipe protruding 18 inches from the ground. Two photos are attached: XX1234_20050515_A is looking north at the empty field. I have input the tank's coordinates in my handheld an, as you can see in the photo, the GOTO is pointing straight ahead and indicated the location is 125 feet ahead. There is no tank there. [photo shows handheld GPS in out-stretched hand with empty field in background.] XX1234_20050515_C is a photo of my handheld on the protruding pipe. Note that the handheld's coordinates indicate a position within 0.1 second of the tank's location. Regards, etc.

Thad & Old Bill - Welcome aboard. Based on the reports of others searching in the Southwest, I expect Old Bill will have plenty of opportunity to exercise his jeepness in pursuit of historical and remote sations. Good hunting. Will, northern VA

To whom it may concern: The L&C commemorative at Louisville, KY, is PID=DH2917, published coordinates are N38-15-37.38894 W085-44-56.01842, the L&C commemorative at Clarksville, IN, is PID=DH2918, published coordinates are N38-16-33.71011 W085-45-47.04373, the L&C commemorative at the George Rogers Clark Homesite (Clarksville, IN) is PID=DH2913, published coordinates are N38-17-14.62546 W085-46-36.71093, and the L&C commemorative at the Locust Grove Historical Site (near Louisville, KY) is PID=DH2912, published coordinates are N38-17-15.36543 W085-39-46.5-776. Will

Callaway MT - Thanks for the info on the Great Falls L&C commemorative. Should be pretty easy to find when I roll through that area in a few weeks. Will

It is an odd cover and probably the correct cover, but I agree with Red - should not have been logged as "Found". W

Pioneer 'n' Tiff - In my opinion, the fact that you found the concrete base for the tower but the tower no longer rises from the base gives you a "DESTROYED" for Geocaching and a "NOT FOUND" should you chose to report this recovery to the NGS. Alternatively (additionally), you could also send an e-mail to Deb Brown with a description of the situation and a few photographs (one of the concrete base and one of the area with no tower in it), and Deb will (probably) reclassify the tower as DESTROYED in the NG database, as well. mloser describes, above, a technique for including the GPS with the GOTO pointer pointing to the destroyed station's empty location in the area photo submitted to Deb. I use the same technique, and it seems to satisfy the NGS. Will

I am certain that I got my most recent case of Poison Ivy/Poison Oak and the numerous small, black stains on my slacks and shirt from the same bush (under which I erroneous thought JU2509 resided). Everywhere each rigid, pointy leaf-end touched my skin, I got a rash. Everywhere each leaf touched my clothes, I got an indelible black spot. Will