California Bear

Has there been confirmation that the cache was what was found? I found a letterbox clue that looks like it was in the same area and was much more recent. It also seems to have been in a location that was more likely to be discovered by a landscaper, especially in light of the fact that the cache has not been accidentally found in over a year.

I have reported a few not founds in cases where I am 100% sure the station has been destroyed but I can't meet the burden of proof needed to have it marked as destroyed. I also include a description of the area that indicates why it was not found. Near my work are a couple of stations that were listed as being on bluffs overlooking a road. In the past few years, the bluffs have been cut away to create an area for parking lots and a parking structure. The edge of the bluff is now back 300-400' from the road. I'm pretty darn sure that the marks are gone because I don't see them levitating in the air 40' over the parking lot. : ) However, because I don't have the disk in hand, I can only list it as not found. There are also some stations that used to be located on culverts going under the highway. The areas are now completely built up into an urban area and the culverts are gone, replaced by underground storm drains. There is a possibility the culverts are still there buried under the road. (Stranger things have been buried. In the 1940s, UCLA buried a bridge while filling in an arroyo. The bridge can still be accessed from tunnels under UCLA. UCLA Tunnels) If the culverts are still there I sure as heck couldn't find them so I marked them as not found with the NGS noting that there are no longer any culverts in the area.

This one is right in my area. I drive past it five days a week. I've wondered whether this one is really either one of the tanks mentioned. As I mentioned in a note I posted for this benchmark, the area where the disk should be located is in their back yard and I haven't had the heart to knock on the door and ask. I'm sure they are annoyed enough by all the beach traffic and noise they deal with already. : ) I have thought about trying to research the history of the structure but it is located in Sunset Beach, one of those odd areas where it could be a division of a city, an unincorporated county area or even its own city. Sunset Beach does have its own post office but it is PO boxes only (no staff on site) and there is no mail delivery. Residents have to go to the post office to pick up their mail. I also haven't been able to find any kind of city hall in the city. I any event, I haven't taken the time to really dig on this one so I can't be definite in my conclusion as to whether this is the right one or not.

Since I do benchmark hunting as well as geocaching, I usually have an NGS datasheet with me. I just explain that I am looking for survey markers and flash the datasheet covered with numbers and technical looking stuff and that works. Before I started doing that, my son and I were looking for part of a multi in some bushes along a river bed (note: here in So. Cal. that means a concrete channel) when a guy on a bike came by and asked us what we were looking for. Caught unprepared, I said the first thing that came to mind: Botany tags. I guess that sounded pretty boring because he said 'Oh!' and rode away. Thank goodness he didn't ask what they were because I have no idea myself!!!

Both of the CERT programs I have tried to join have been put on indefinate hold due to funding issues. The irony of this is that both were cancelled post 9-11 at a time when there has been an increased call from law enforcement, the Homeland Defence Dept. and the emergency community for citizens to step up and help out as they would be overwhelmed by a major catastrophe. That the CERT program in my home city (Lakewood, CA) didn't go very far isn't a huge surprise but the fact that the program in Long Beach, CA was canned. Long Beach is the 5th largest city in California and home to the second busiest port in the U.S. (right behind it's neighboring port of Los Angeles). Add in the fact that it is smack-dab in the middle of earthquake country and I am left wondering what is going through the heads of city management when they cut the program. At the one meeting I attended (the last one the program held), the fire captain was explaining that there was a day the previous week when the fire dept. had been stretched to its limit by having to send engines out to fight brush fires then having a fog related freeway pile-up with over 100 vehicles. If there had been one more major incident, the dept. wouldn't have been able to handle it. Sounds like a great idea to cut the CERT program. <getting off my soapbox now>

The FCC has an online database of applications for antennas that may be helpful for research. I have been using it to try and clear up a confusing station (the benchmark type, not the radio/tv type) in my area (DX4637) that seems to match the description but is on the wrong side of the street. The FCC website: Antenna Structure Registration It allows searches by city/state as well as lat/long. The antenna heights are listed in meters but it shouldn't be too much trouble to convert to feet.

I noticed that the MSN Maps pages that are opened from the geocaching pages had a nice option to get directions to the cache but this was missing from the link that came off the benchmarks pages. I did a little investigating and discovered that if you put the work CACHE between |1||L1| in the URL for the MSN map site, you will get this option. An example from a random BM I picked in Utah... Without driving directions: http://mappoint.msn.com/(rlbmw02cwj1qob2ui...10.75352|1||L1| With driving directions: http://mappoint.msn.com/(rlbmw02cwj1qob2ui...352|1|CACHE|L1| This should help in getting to stations in areas where you aren't familiar with the area. Enjoy!

My brother is currently taking a photography class and went to a nearby power plant to take some photos. He snapped a few, then got into his car and started driving away. He got about a mile-and-a-half down the road when a police car and an unmarked police car pulled him over. They asked him why he was taking pictures of the power plant. He explained that it for a photography assignment for school. They asked to see the assignment paper and what was in his camera bag. He asked the officer if it was illegal to take pictures of the power plant and he was told that it wasn't but it wasn't a good idea to do it. They ran his info through the computer and let him go. In these times of heightened security, law enforcement is getting really jumpy about photography but you do have a right to take photographs that cannot be taken away just because someone doesn't like the photos you are taking. Here is a link to a page about Photographer's Rights and includes a PDF that can be printed to carry with you as a reference: Legal Handbook for Photographers In this PDF is a section called Permissible Subjects. The list includes the things you were talking about: bridges and other infrastructure (water towers are infrastructure), airports, industrial and public facilities (water towers can be placed here as well). As long as you are taking a photograph from a public area (streets, sidewalks, parks, etc.), you may not be stopped from taking a photograph. There are notable exceptions. Military commanders can prohibit photography of specific areas for security reasons. Near where I live is a Naval Wespons Station. The fence around the dock area has signs that indicate that photography is prohibited but the rest of the base doesn't have this signage. You also may not take photos on private propery if the property owner prohibits it but you may take pictures OF private property from a public space. The Energy Department can also prohibit photos of nuclear facilities. All that being said, excercise discretion. If the nation is at Orange Alert, it would probably not be wise to be taking pictures of military facilities or other sensitive areas.

I just found this on the NGS site. They have changed the format of the NGS Datasheets. Details can be found at http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/craigs_lib.../ds_changes.doc They now list coords for handheld GPS use under Current Survey Control (when available)!!!

Thanks all! This will come in real handy as there is one mark that I have been looking for that is giving me fits!

In the 'Updated Benchmarking Section' topic, Black Dog Trackers mentioned adding the reference box (or box score) to the gc.com benchmark page. I was looking at these and was wondering if someone could clarify using these to help find a BM. I get the distance part, that's easy enough. What I don't understand is the Geod. Az dddmmss.s column. I assume this is something similar to a compass heading but I don't know how to use it (or I could be way off and it has nothing to do with a heading). And, in relation, is there an 'NGS Data Sheet for Dummies' article anywhere? In looking at a data sheet, I realize that pretty much the only things I understand on the sheet are the designation info, the curernt survey control and station descriptions.

Nope! If you can see this one, you can log it. A surveyor wouldn't actually climb up to this one. He or she would use it as a target to measure where they were standing using the finial as a known, fixed point.

Wow! What a wierd juxtaposition of hobbies! I play Microsoft's Train Simulator and someone created a shortline railroad called Canton that I was running trains on just last night. I am going to have to stop the train at all the bridges now and check to see if the creator put this benchmark disk on any of them.

To start with, some mindless fawning: Thanks for updating the section! I am really happy to have the updated map links! Now to the suggestions: I agree with Me and Bucky (that almost sounds like I have a multiple personality disorder), I liked the 10 mile radius on the results page. I download all the PIDs for an area I am going to be in and dump them into Map Source so I can get a visual of where they are all are in relation to where I am going to be. Doing this 25 at a time would be very time consuming. Keep up the great work!!!

EGADS! If I had only known... That may explain why fillings pick up strange radio signals in an alien language whenever I am near a benchmark!!!

Wow! Nifty info! I assumed that the information on the OC side of the marker was an OC marker number. It never occured to me that CLB would mean City of Long Beach but now that seems pretty obvious. Is there a public database for suveyor information that you were able to check to find out about Mr. Hathaway or is that from a surveyor only source?

On the subject of county line markers, I found a BM disc that had a county line on it. It sits on the border between LA and Orange County in Seal Beach/Long Beach (depending on which side of the disc you are on).

Ahhh! I guess I should be careful in my terminology usage. By reference objects, I was NOT referring to the official reference marks placed by surveyors. I was referring to nearby objects that can be used to locate the general vicinity of the marks. Thanks for pointing that out, GeckoGeek.

What I log with the NGS depends on what I find. If the TO REACH and location descriptions are adequate, I will merely log it as FOUND with no description. If there have been changes in the area and it took me a while to find the marker due to the changes, I will post it FOUND with an updated description in the Note area. I do use a tape measure if I am giving a description to the marker from a reference object (e.g. fire hydrant, light post, etc.) I also use a compass to determine the direction the marker is from the reference object. I don't usually log my NOT FOUNDS with the NGS unless it is very obvious that the marker won't be found (e.g. the description puts the marker in a flood channel under a highway and there is no longer a flood channel there). More than once, I have logged a marker as NOT FOUND on the gc.com site and someone else found it later.

I log all my finds with the NGS as most of the time they haven't had a logged recovery since the 60s. I figure that if the NGS willingly accepts finds from the US Power Squadron, an non-Governmental hobbyist orginization who most likely don't have any surveyor training, as officially recognized enough to have their own special checkbox on the Recovery page, I can't do much worse than they can. As for reporting a benchmark as missing, I have only done so four times. In the first case, the described location met all the criteria, but there was no disk, yet there was evidence of the disk having been there. I found a disk sized hole in the top of the rock with dried epoxy and a bolt inside of it. DX4449 The other three were structures on a Navy Base. I contacted the Public Affairs Office for the base and they confirmed that two of the structures had been destroyed and the third had the top removed (which was the benchmark point) and the tower was soon too be taken down. When I logged these as missing with the NGS, I included the contact information for the person I contacted on the base. These marks were : DY2607, DY2620 and DY2645. While there have been several benchmarks I have not been able to find, I will not log one with the NGS as not found unless I have incontrovertible proof that I was absolutely looking in the correct spot. More than once, I have looked for a mark and not found it only to stumble across it later while looking for another one. PS: The NGS does appreciate any research done when recovering a mark. When I reported the Navy Base marks as destroyed via e-mail, I received an e-mail from Deb Brown of the NGS thanking me for my diligence in researching the status of those marks.

That alone would make the $200 worthwhile. Is the 'Survey Marker Recovery' painted on or is it one of those cling type signs?

A description for an RM for benchmark DX4467 says that the marker is located in the corner of a Pasadena type culvert. I have no idea what a Pasadena type culver is. I did a search and couldn't find anything definitive. Does anyone know what this type of culvert is and have a picture of one?

In the early days of aviation before radio navigation and GPS, night flying was problematic if not bordering on impossible. To solve this problem, specifically for air-mail delivery, flight paths (known as airways) between key cities were delineated by a series of rotating light beacons set up about every 10 miles. These beacons were bright enough to be seen from up to 40 miles on a clear night so all a pilot had to do was follow the string of lights. In addition, the airway beacon stations had a large concrete arrow built flat on the ground that pointed toward the next highest number station in the airway to facilitate daytime navigation. The FAA has a good article on early night navigation, including the beacons, at http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/afss/History/NightNav.htm. There is also a picture of a standard airway beacon station. I would imagine that most of these stations are gone now, most likely torn down for scrap metal, but the concrete arrows may still be in place.

Wow! I didn't know about the gallery! For some reason I was under the impression from the Member bio pages that only Geocaches were in the Gallery. Cool!

Everything in moderation is probably the best answer to avoid burnout. Mix your geocaching and benchmark hunting with other hobbies. Take some time off, do something different and come back to caching and hunting later. Balboagirl mentioned looking for seven marks and not finding any of them. Here is an idea of what to do with marks you can't find: do research to find out what happened to them or try to find photos of the area as it looked in the time period of one of the recoveries. See this one for an example: DY2601 It's a little short on description but a picture is worth a thousand words. I try to find out something intersting about the marks I recover, if I can. This makes the log on the geocaching.com site a little more interesting than "Yup! There it is!"