California Bear

Congrats! It will be many a year before I reach the 1000+ mark. Too many of the marks in my area are plowed under by the voracious appetite of developers. Heaven only knows we need MORE half empty strip malls here in So Cal.

I've found the old clipboard and safety vest seem to satisfy most folk that I have a legitimate reason to be wandering around looknig at the ground, measuring things and taking photos. As for the being arrested thing, my wife has informed me that if I get arrested doing this, I better not waste my one phone call on her as she has warned me about doing something that looks hinky.

This sounds like a great idea. I would be open to considering May. Unfortunately, I can't host as I am out here in So. Cal., nowhere near the proposed meet locale.

Glad to share! Too bad they don't allow pictures to be taken in the museum. There was so much to see. When we entered the room with the surveying equipment, my wife said "You HAVE to share this with the people on the benchmark board." She doesn't share my passion for maps and benchmarks but she does enjoy seeing me get excited over them.

There are quite a few around my work that were wooden stubs with copper tacks. Most of them have been replaced, some a number of times. One went from wooden stub to buried bottle to vitrified tile and finally to a disk. One thing about the wooden stubs that were placed around here is that they were made of redwood which is notably resilient and long lasting in nature. However, they stand little chance against graders and bulldozers.

I just returned from a vacation in Italy. One of the places we went to was dell’Istituto e Museo di Storia della Scienza di Firenze (The Institute and Museum of the History of Science in Florence). While nowhere near as ancient as the Chaco Canyon site, there was a fine collection of surveying equipment dating as far back as the 1500s. Upon viewing the collection, I came to the realization that there had been little in the way of large changes in survey technology until GPS came on the scene. One of the pieces in the collection is a theodolite from the year 1560. The Institute has an online collection that can be found here: IMSS Survey Equipment Multimedia Catalog . If you are ever in Florence, I highly recommend this museum. It is well laid out with the displays separated by scientific discipline and the staff is extremely friendly and helpful (there are also FREE descriptive pamphlets in English, a rarity among all the museums we went to).

Intersting that state is over 70% owned by the Federal Govt. doesn't have its own initial point. I looked up the location of the San Bernardino initial point and was surprised to see that there is no NGS mark there. Is that normal for initial points?

Thanks for that article. I enjoyed reading about where the markers come from. I was struck by the BLM markers that were brass on iron pipes and the fact that the metals interact and destroy each other. That may explain some of the older missing marks.

Hmm. My Japanese is a little rusty but I think it says: By order of the Emperor, do not disturb. Penalty for removing or destroying is ritual suicide.

On the topic of challenging marks, I was browsing marks in Yosemite National Park and came across HR2888. This is the first TO REACH description I have ever seen that includes directions on where to camp. I got out my TOPO! software and traced the route indicated by the TO REACH and found it to be over 20 miles to the mark (one way). I'd say that is definately not a day trip! I can see why it hasn't had a posted recovery since the 50s. I found it kind of humorous that the directions don't give distance but give time instead. I suppose that could be used as a rough guide but I'm sure that the distance that my grandma would travel in one hour is vastly different from what an Olympic marathon runner could do in an hour, especially at an altitude of over 9000'. Here is an aerial image of the station and the recommended campsite. There be glaciers up yonder! One item of interest I noticed: This is a triangulation station but the MONUMENTED description only notes the station disk, not any RMs or an AZIMUTH disk. Can triangulation stations be created without RMs or AZMIUTHs?

"West RM Story" "Tie-In Line" "Little Mark of Horrors" "Best Little Benchmark in Texas"

Inspired by this topic, I hit the dirt roads of San Bernadino National Forest with a USGS map. My mission, find marks not in the NGS database using only the USGS map as a guide. I was successgul in finding 4 out of 5. One was a standard disk, two were plaques attached to trees and one was a cairn. The fifth one I may or may not have found. I can't be sure without a description. It was a Third Order or Better with Recoverable Mark but not a tablet. I hiked up to the top of the peak indicated by the X and, according to the GPS, I was at the right altitude but there was no mark, carving, bolt, etc. that I could find. However, the rock on the top came to a very sharp and distinct point which may have been the recoverable point. All in all, I had a great time looking for marks in an environment where the marks aren't being constantly destroyed to make way for homes and strip malls. I haev some pics and will upload them when I get a chance.

While the wildfires that we get in many parts of the country are devestating, I would imagine that they can be helpful in uncovering mark that are trapped in brush. An example is: EW7684. This one would definately benefit from a good burn-off.

You guys are WAAAAYYYY ahead of me. My find/did not find ratio is pretty bad (67/42). It is almost 50/50. What can I say, the Southern California urban environment is hell on benchmarks. Nothing lasts for long around here. To quote Steve Martin from the movie L.A. Story: <proudly pointing out the sights> "Some of these buildings are nearly thirty years old!"

Thanks for the tip! I'll have to check into that!

On the subject of unusual marks, does anyone have a photo of a vitrified tile? Many of the older marks listed in my area at one point had these placed (usually replacing a buried bottle and redwood stubs) before being replaced with disks.

Do you have a photo you could post that wouldn't give away the location? I would like to see what one looks like so I would know what to look for if I find a mark like that.

With the USGS topos, not every X with an elevation next to it has a permanent mark. For some reason, the USGS decided to use the same symbol for both permanent marks and spot elevation checks with no mark. The difference between the two is the size of the X which is very, very hard to distinguish on a digital map. It may be easier if you have a hard copy map and the legend on a separate sheet that allows you to place the legend next to the X on the map and compare sizes. That being said, you can safely assume that if there is a BM next to the X, there was a disk at that location at some point in time. If you find an X with an elevation next to it but not the letters BM, you will need to find out if it is a large X or a small x to determine if there was ever any kind of recoverable mark at the location. The large Xes without BM next to them had some sort of recoverable mark (type not specified on map) at that location. The small xes were spot checks with no permanent mark, probably some high point in the area.

Other ways to tell you're addicted is when you start looking for BM spray painted on the curb or you slow down when driving past corners and storm drains to see if there is disk there. In terms of difficult marks, there is one near my work that I have been trying to find on and off for over a year. I've been up there with a shovel a couple of times digging around what MIGHT have been a witness post with no results. DX4572 - CAMP The last recovery says the mark could be in place under a two-foot high dirt berm. I have found the berm but am having trouble locating the exact location on the berm which extends along the entire bluff. The dikes used as reference points have been partially demolished to allow the estuary to return to a natural state so I have a hard time using them to find the mark. Unfortunately, the berm has since hardened to a rock-like state that would most likely require a pick-axe to get through so I am loathe to arbitrarily start digging it up in hopes of finding the disk. My best option to find the disk (that may or may no be there) is to use a metal detector. I don't currently own one and am unable (so far) to justify purchasing to my wife. She supports my hobbies only so far...

CORS are Continuously Operating Reference Stations. They are basically GPS receivers that are fixed into one location and run 24-7. From what I understand, they are used to track locations on the earth's crust and are compared with other CORS to measure movement differences between different locations. Here is the NGS site on CORS: What Is CORS?

That explains a lot. I was wondering why I seemed to be missing stations from the County downloads.

Ahh! I think I get it now. Thanks for the explanation. To recover this station, I would need to verfiy the the hospital building in the description is still in place. That might be hard to say as they have been going buts up there building a new wing on the hospital.

Here's my wife's number. Could you call her and tell her that?

I was looking at some of the stations near me and came across a station with the following in the description: The PID for this station is: DX4566 The description says the station is an unmarked point. Does this mean there is no physical mark to be found? Was this a virtual benchmark that could only be found by reshooting all the reference points? Thanks in advance.

Wow! I guess I am SOL as I live in the middle of urban sprawl on the West Coast where marks get plowed under every day for new housing developments and the 100+ year old marks were buried glass bottles that are all long gone, replaced by vitrified tiles and later by disks.