the4dirtydogs

So why don't you step aside when one cacher wants to address bogus logging. Player. Another post I can't take seriously. You're on a roll. Keep smoking. . Player.

They are abusing the website. If 100 people did the same thing it would be a chore to determine the real logs from the rest of the litter. Oh No they're abusing the site. Like I said I just don't worry about what others claim as a find. It just doesn't matter to me. But I do get a good laugh from posts like yours. No, they are not doing any real harm, like the guy who tosses a single soda can into the woods. So what? What is one can going to do? When there is 100 out there, I'm sure that every person thought that individually they did not do anything really wrong either. Let me mention that your posts show blatant abuse of the rolleyes and laughing emoticons, but I'll let it go. Sorry man, I can't take that post seriously.

Ok here's the scenario: I own a cache. It has disappeared. Several people log DNFs. I think "ah maybe there's a problem with the cache, I better go check it". Someone logs a bogus find saying "great cache, easy find" I then think "obviously it's still there so I don't need to do anything about it" Next cacher thinks it must still be there 'cos it was found really easily yesterday, and wastes their time looking for something which isn't there. Necessary cache maintenance has been delayed. Maybe you still don't see that's a problem, but many people do. That's the chance you take. 50/50 either a find or not. You should have done a check after a couple DNFs and not have waited so long. I check after a couple DNFs if I know it's an easy cache. Wasting time is all this game is about. Really? Just had a quick look at your cache and after 2 DNFs you waited over 3 weeks to temp disable it and it was over a month before you got out to check it. Are you honestly saying that you would still have disabled it and gone out to check it if someone had logged a find after those 2 DNFs? You have to understand that I dont receive the emails for our caches(been changed)the wifey receives the emails. And when I check my caches I see the finds and not the DNFs unless I check every cache I own every day. So when I noticed the DNFs I disabled the cache to let other players know the cache could be missing. I was a little busy that month with life. Yes I would have honestly gone to check the cache because it was too easy to have an DNFs. I was commenting on your example, so I don't see why you had to get personal and bring up one of my caches. Oh and I checked on the cache 10 days or so after I disabled it and archived it. Is that good enough for you MartyFartfast?

So in other words you don't sign every cache you claimed to have found. I don't know where you got that from. Your post followed by the lack of denial. I have far more respect for people who admit their caching habits. Afterwards we can have an honest discussion about what is right or wrong. Lack of denial? I want some of what you're smoking. I sign the logs like every other player out there. Every other player does not sign the log. Do you claim a find on a cache that you didn't visit and see for yourself? Nope. Me neither. Perhaps you could explain to me how a cache is either found or not found, or the cache is there or not there, since you are in support of bogus logging. I really don't think you need an explaination. Next question?

So in other words you don't sign every cache you claimed to have found. I don't know where you got that from. Your post followed by the lack of denial. I have far more respect for people who admit their caching habits. Afterwards we can have an honest discussion about what is right or wrong. Lack of denial? I want some of what you're smoking. I sign the logs like every other player out there. Every other player does not sign the log. Do you claim a find on a cache that you didn't visit and see for yourself? Nope.

Ok here's the scenario: I own a cache. It has disappeared. Several people log DNFs. I think "ah maybe there's a problem with the cache, I better go check it". Someone logs a bogus find saying "great cache, easy find" I then think "obviously it's still there so I don't need to do anything about it" Next cacher thinks it must still be there 'cos it was found really easily yesterday, and wastes their time looking for something which isn't there. Necessary cache maintenance has been delayed. Maybe you still don't see that's a problem, but many people do. That's the chance you take. 50/50 either a find or not. You should have done a check after a couple DNFs and not have waited so long. I check after a couple DNFs if I know it's an easy cache. Wasting time is all this game is about.

So in other words you don't sign every cache you claimed to have found. I don't know where you got that from. Your post followed by the lack of denial. I have far more respect for people who admit their caching habits. Afterwards we can have an honest discussion about what is right or wrong. Lack of denial? I want some of what you're smoking. I sign the logs like every other player out there.

Explain to me what the problem is. The cache is either found or not found, or the cache is there or not there. I don't see what the problem could be by a person logging a bogus log. Really I don't. Find or Did Not Find, you can't blame the last finder if you cant find a cache that they so-called found. Just plain DUMB. The cache (these days, often a virtual or webcam it seems) is active. The owner might not be. The cache can still be found legitimately, but an owner might not be actively monitoring the listing or their associated email account. Bogus logs are posted--person armchair logs, or has clearly not visited the cache site. Guidelines mention somewhere that armchair logs are not permitted, and virtual logs--not virtual caches--will be deleted. Attention is brought to an active cache with an inactive owner. Cache may be archived or locked due to that fact. All the while, there are users who would like to log legitimate finds on caches that would otherwise still be active. Thereby, the bogus log causes problems for others. You don't have to agree that it is a problem for you, but it can be for others. I understand the virtuals and webcams because they are old caches and owners might not be around anymore, so archive them because the owners are inactive. I was commenting on RFD post not virtuals or webcams.

Oh yeah I can see all these as real problems. Sorry I'm not seeing it. You may roll your eyes, but those are real problems that I've seen with my own eyes. Bogus logs can and do cause problems for others. Explain to me what the problem is. The cache is either found or not found, or the cache is there or not there. I don't see what the problem could be by a person logging a bogus log. Really I don't. Find or Did Not Find, you can't blame the last finder if you cant find a cache that they so-called found. Just plain DUMB.

We use peanut butter containers, mayo containers, and ammo cans. I haven't had any problem with these containers, only people stealing them. I'm not a fan of the Lock n Lock containers because most of the ones that I find have broken tabs on the lid.

Oh yeah I can see all these as real problems. Sorry I'm not seeing it.

They are abusing the website. If 100 people did the same thing it would be a chore to determine the real logs from the rest of the litter. Oh No they're abusing the site. Like I said I just don't worry about what others claim as a find. It just doesn't matter to me. But I do get a good laugh from posts like yours.

So in other words you don't sign every cache you claimed to have found. I don't know where you got that from.

Might want to throw in the LPCs for lack of permission while you're on your cache police terror. Seriously... guard rail hides. I'm sure you have better things to do. LPCs would seem to fall under the category of "adequate permission". And GRIMs seem to be treated the same way in most states. The issue here isn't permission for a hide, but the hide itself. Unless someone is, for example, sawing one of the bolts under the lamp skirt or drilling into the metal pole; that would fall into the same category as the guardrail hides I am asking about, although I'd think the danger would be more apparent there. I don't recall ever finding a LPC that required anything more than simply lifting the skirt. As for my "cache police terror" your hyperbole grossly overestimates the numbers involved. I've never found a guard rail hide that has altered ANY part of the guard rail EVER. If you see a cache in violation of the guidelines then report it. I pull my Badge out every once in awhile. Bringing this to the forum seems you're up to something.

I don't understand why people would log caches like this. I find it even funnier how upset some players get about it. What exactly is this person hurting? This is just a game. I wouldn't worry about it unless it was my cache, then again if it was my cache I wouldn't care one bit.

I really don't care if players log their own caches, heck I don't care what players log as finds. Nobody wins in this game. As for the Challenge cache, I would expect the CO to have completed the challenge that they are creating. Kinda like I can do this, can other players do the same. Why not complete your challenge before you make the Challenge cache?

I believe that was Mr. Riffster.

Should I not be vigilant about alerting Reviewers to caches I find that violate guidelines? These aren't caches that can be armchair NA'd or have problems apparent during the review process; only those that find a GRIM will know how it is hidden and have any idea if they should be concerned about a Guidelines issue. Might want to throw in the LPCs for lack of permission while you're on your cache police terror. Seriously... gaurd rail hides. I'm sure you have better things to do.

750 caches was the most caches that I have ever found in a day. This trip was on the famous E.T. Highway that was split up in 2 days of caching. Just 2 cachers in one JEEP for around 12-14 hours each day. So basically you need a lot of time and a lot of easy caches on a powertrail to get these HUGE numbers in a day.

So it has to be one or the other? There are days where I spend 12 hours working on 1 cache and I've done days where we hit 200. Each is a different type of challenge. Some people enjoy one or the other, some people enjoy both. Nah, not trying to dictate how anyone should cache, just commenting (in a fun way) that caching often is much more enjoyable when you take your time, not sweat the numbers, and enjoy the experience, the find, etc. I understand that finding 200 caches in one day is a "challenge". However, I personally don't see the value because on the times I rushed....it just wasn't worth it. To me it is like saying...anyone can build a house in a short amount of time, but is that house going to be a good one, well designed, visually appealing, etc...hell no. But again...not trying to say its wrong, just something for folks to consider. You sure have a lot to say about something you know nothing about. I know what I'm talking about....you don't know what I know, so you need to bug off dude! You only been here a little over a year. You are the one that doesn't have the history, experience or knowledge. Been here since 2002 (almost the beginning). Dang man you sure are trying to make some friends in here. Since your throwing out some numbers you only have a couple hundred finds in 10+ years and you talk about experience. Keep in mind too that I had a long time to deal with kidney failure (on dialysis) that did not allow me to cache in large stretches. What I've logged is only part of my experience. I have closely watched the hobby for many years. I have not always logged caches either. Number of caches logged is NOT a measure of knowledge, sorry. But perhaps you think it does, and that is why this hobby at times is full of, well, I'll stop there, but lets say I feel many people have ruined the game with the "I have 3000 logged finds, so I'm better than you". I can also pretty much bet a large majority of this also goes hand-in-hand with the wealthier folks because it reflects the "I have more MONEY than you" attitude. Also...why should I care about making friends here. This is the internet, I don't need validation from you or anyone else on the internet. I have REAL friends that deserve my respect, because they respect me. But if you think getting friends from on online forum is important, than I just feel sorry for you. I dont measure anyones numbers, I was just throwing that out there. I will say that with 140+ puzzle caches under my belt I have gained a bit of knowledge with deciphering codes and other crazy things. Also attending over 150 events, I have learned so much from just talking to other players about this game. So I guess I do kinda see the numbers as bit of knowledge. I was just joking aboutthe making friends things. LMAO. I never said anything about,"I have logged 3000 finds, so I'm better than you" and I never would say something like that. But you sure do think that since you've joined in 2002 that you're better than anyone that doesn't have 10 years in the game.(and watching from the sideline at that ) Oh by the way... call one of your friends to come give you a HUG . I think you need some...

So it has to be one or the other? There are days where I spend 12 hours working on 1 cache and I've done days where we hit 200. Each is a different type of challenge. Some people enjoy one or the other, some people enjoy both. Nah, not trying to dictate how anyone should cache, just commenting (in a fun way) that caching often is much more enjoyable when you take your time, not sweat the numbers, and enjoy the experience, the find, etc. I understand that finding 200 caches in one day is a "challenge". However, I personally don't see the value because on the times I rushed....it just wasn't worth it. To me it is like saying...anyone can build a house in a short amount of time, but is that house going to be a good one, well designed, visually appealing, etc...hell no. But again...not trying to say its wrong, just something for folks to consider. You sure have a lot to say about something you know nothing about. I know what I'm talking about....you don't know what I know, so you need to bug off dude! You only been here a little over a year. You are the one that doesn't have the history, experience or knowledge. Been here since 2002 (almost the beginning). Dang man you sure are trying to make some friends in here. Since your throwing out some numbers you only have a couple hundred finds in 10+ years and you talk about experience.

But it makes a great thread so everyone can come out of the woodworks and turn this into 3 pages of guideline quotes . And cant forget all the examples of hides in the dirt.

I would like to know exactly how this whole "TEAM" thing is hurting the cachers. If they are out having fun then so be it. I find it rather funny that you think these other cachers robbed other players of FTFs . That is just too dang funny. Robbed for an FTF, I'll have to remember that. If you can't handle the HEAT get out of the kitchen.

Fixed it for you.

We live in the DC area dude. You have to remove yourself from the DC high income equation and see how the world looks when it is hard to make ends meet. Sure there are free things, but remember that when you want to participate and others are all talking about this cache and that cache, you go look for them...but oh...you aren't allowed to find that cache because it is a premium only cache. There are these other 'great' caches, but oh, you need a $400 gps or smart phone (that'll cost you $500+ per year in fees, etc.). The whole thing isn't that the there is no access, but that Groundspeak favors those with the means to play the more enjoyable parts of the game. It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open! Granted, the current behavior has been around longer than the years it begged and pleaded for free help. But it is still wrong in my opinion that the site tries to make believe it is about "community" when members of that community are treated differently based on their economic input. No one is faulting good business and profits, but when those at the top are making seven figure incomes annually (or more) and it was all on the backs of a lot of contributors that were lead to believe it would be a NON-PROFIT set-up...that is a completely different avenue. Each person has to make their own decisions, but to NOT understand the perspective that GS has in fact built a game for those with means is just ignorance (a harsh word, but not going to candy coat it). I myself had to take a break from it because it was just getting to be too annoying. I'm giving Geocaching a second look and hoping a fresh perspective will mean I can return to the game with fresh eyes, but there is still a lot of concern. I also have to remember that there are very few people like me that have been around since nearly the beginning (which speaks volumes in itself). Sheez with that type of attitude why come back if you feel this much seperation between players. Nothing has changed, just more Premium Members and PM caches. I think if you supported GS(with PM) since nearly the begining that would speak volume in itself. What your doing is just complaining.