Jump to content

Rediculious Event: Number Game????


AtoZ

Recommended Posts

Interesting discussion so far...

 

I've logged them both ways in the past. If I felt it was a legit cache and it was allowed by the owner, I log it. If I don't, then I won't. Afterall it's all about me isn't it? ;)

 

Having attended the WGA event last year, I thought the whole thing was well done and the caches were only temporary in nature due to the desires of the park. Each cache certainly could have been listed here and subsequently archived later (which was the case way back when), but the organizers followed the rules as they existed (and still exist I believe) about placing and logging temps.

 

I agree that there may be some potential issues about short circuiting the cache approval process with regard to placement, quality and proximity. I have also attended an event that bent the rules here (in my opinion) and encouraged one to log a find after finding a cacher who acted as a moving cache (mostly by asking them if they were a cache) - this was one I didn't feel was legit and subsequently did not log it.

 

After thinking about it for a long while, I fall more into the do not log multiple times camp mostly because of the lack of oversight issue noted above. However, the sport is about playing the game the way you choose so far be it for me to make an issue about someone else's logs.

 

For those that have a problem with this I'll pose another question on so-called geocaching ethics - Should logs be allowed where "you" weren't the one to actually find the cache (i.e. group finds)?

My opinion is if "you" didn't find it "you" have no business calling it a find.

 

What I'm getting at here is that it's a potentially slippery slope when we begin to question how others decide to play.

Link to comment
The caches are outside of geocaching.com, they are only listed at the event.

One person's outside is another person's inside. I find that the strictly literal interpretations often restrict the fun of geocaching. Black and white interpretations don't cover all situations.

 

Cachers can be very creative. We might want to focus on the issue of intent before we pass two more pages of judgment.

 

These people discussed this ahead of time and there must have been some local dissent to temper their decision. Were they looking for a "cheap" way to "inflate" their stats? Would an association as large as WGA intentionally look for underhanded ways to increase their members' stats to the disadvantage of cachers outside their area? I don't think so. I believe they spent a weekend having fun and found caches in the normal way. They were positively engaged in the sport and they believe their caches qualified for finds.

I never said the WGA was using underhanded tactics to inflate numbers. I don't have a problem with the WGA (although I was kicked out of the state once, but that's another story) ;)

 

The question is not "are temps still caches?" it is "are they geocaching.com caches?". The answer is no. They were not listed on this site, so they should not be reflected in the find count on this site.

 

It would be the same way if you had an event and found 70 Terracaches. Would you log your event here 71 times? No! You'd log it once, then log the 70 caches on the other site.

 

It doesn't matter if these caches are temporary or not, the fact that they have not been listed on this site means they shouldn't count as finds on this site.

Link to comment

If these WGA temp caches meet all the physical requirements for Geocaching.com caches, why weren't they approved, permanent caches?

 

I have attended five event caches in California, and none of them had temp caches. Most of these events had new caches hidden by locals, just in time for the event. The big difference is that these caches are still active and can be found by all geocachers.

 

I personally hid 10 caches for the last event held in my area, and I still maintain my 10.

Link to comment

It's a game! ...but this is also an important discussion as you are always going to come across people who march to the beat of a different drum. This "sport" is also evolving and sometimes the people who march to a different beat of a drum can bring new variations to our sport.

 

When it comes to etiquette, i was taught that you don't log your own cache and you don't log a cache more than once. Logging an "attended" more than once would also go against that etiquette.

 

I could see logging the event once and making a list of the non-gc caches or even logging the event but then adding notes to say you found the non gc caches but to log that you attended 30 times... it makes no sense to me. I am surprised the organization didn't take a stand against logging an event more than once.

 

Again, we all march to the beat of a different drum.

 

Dave

Link to comment
If these WGA temp caches meet all the physical requirements for Geocaching.com caches, why weren't they approved, permanent caches?

 

I have attended five event caches in California, and none of them had temp caches. Most of these events had new caches hidden by locals, just in time for the event. The big difference is that these caches are still active and can be found by all geocachers.

 

I personally hid 10 caches for the last event held in my area, and I still maintain my 10.

From what I have read in previous messages, they made an agreement with the land management not to leave the caches behind.

 

Dave

Link to comment
Could someone please show me how to post a cache find in geocaching.com that is not listed on geocaching.com? Allowing this seems to be a rather large flaw in logic. IMHO

They didn't exactly log caches that were not listed on GC.com. They logged the listed event numerous times to account for the caches they found at the event that wasn't listed.

 

El Diablo

Link to comment
It's a game! ...but this is also an important discussion as you are always going to come across people who march to the beat of a different drum. This "sport" is also evolving and sometimes the people who march to a different beat of a drum can bring new variations to our sport.

Ya, it's a game. No argument there. But who has control over your logs?

 

Are you more than happy to have all of them deleted just because the cache owner decides to? If they can make the rules, can they break them too?

Edited by BlueDeuce
Link to comment

When this started in 2001, events were logged with a "found it" log vs. the "attended" log type that was put into place more recently. I don't think any member likes logging multiple "attended" logs at an event to account for finding temporary caches. BUT- most feel very strongly that these temporary caches are very deserving of being added to their overall find count, and are allowed to do so. I'm sure Groundspeak does not want their server spacer and bandwidth sucked up by cache pages for temp caches, any more than they wanted it bogged down with virtuals or locationless caches. If there was a better option, such as a special log type for event temp caches, i'm sure it would be used.

 

<tounge in cheek>

I've seen plenty of multi-caches that allow a find log for each stage; perhaps the WGA should make their next bunch of temp caches a 60 stage multi that ends with an offset regular cache? Then when the event is over, and all the logs are in, they could simply change the cache to a regular cache, and then maybe just archive it after is has been there long enough to have been considered a "permanent" cache. It's become common for land managers to only permit caches to remain in place for 1 year, so just what is a "permanent" cache anyway?

 

The fact remains that we can play the game how we choose to. It's been done this way since there were less than a dozen geocachers in this state, and even fewer caches. If it's that big of a problem in your mind, maybe you should spend some time concentrating on something more meaningful.

Link to comment

Personally, I don't think people should be logging temp caches that aren't listed on the site. I won't go into why I feel that way; Sax has already done a pretty good job explaining it.

 

I think the more important question here is whether or not it really matters if people log temp caches. Right now I'm honestly too tired to think about it much.

Link to comment
<tounge in cheek>

I've seen plenty of multi-caches that allow a find log for each stage; perhaps the WGA should make their next bunch of temp caches a 60 stage multi that ends with an offset regular cache?

Cathunter has a great idea...we'll have to use that the next time Team Badger hosts an event!

 

So many of you are concerned with the "numbers" we're logging here in WI...have any of you looked at profiles to see that almost half of my personal finds are in other states? On my individual account I have cached in 13 states. Does anyone care about that? No...all you care about is that I logged some dang caches that you didn't get to log because you weren't there that day. You know, the day I spent 6-12 hours walking around in the woods signing my name on logs or stamping my master cache sheet. You weren't there to see me scale the brick wall or walk across the creek on a fallen tree so that I could log a cache. You weren't there to see the mosquitos eating me alive as I stood breathing with the aide of an inhaler while climbing 500 feet up a steep incline. You weren't there to see me standing atop of a bluff after walking with a group of cachers in search of yet another temporary hide. You weren't there to see a group of people laughing at the "finder's tree" while waiting for the last person to discover the hidden treasure. (We don't just go and grab it. When walking w/ a group each person upon finding the cache keeps wandering around pretending they're still searching. Once they are a safe distance away they call the "finder's tree" and as others find it, they join the group. This way each person is allowed the chance to find the cache on their own. No one is handed a find just because they're there!) You weren't there to see the smiles on the faces of the cache hiders as we talked about their efforts. You weren't there beaming with pride at the thought of your cache being searched out by 100+ people in the course of a single day.

 

While there will always be those who are concerned with the "numbers" they can gain at an event, most who attend are in it for the search. Most enjoy the fact that they can go to one place, meet new people who have the same interests as they, reconnect with others they have met previously, spend time with old friends. Do we log some caches along the way? Heck yeah! And why not!

 

The normal chain of events allows for WGA temporary hides to be placed an average of a month in advance. Anyone so desiring shows up on the listed date, they pick/are assigned an area in the park, grab containers (or bring their own) and then hide them. They are responsible for listing coordinates and the cache description (just like on a gc.com page). Caches are put into a computer that day and critiqued as necessary. Numbers are tested at some point before the event starts. These caches are not thrown out the window of a car, they are not tossed off the trail as one rides a bike from one end to the other. None of them are placed without some thought of how they will be received by others. So get off of your high horses people! If you want to cache here...welcome. If not, stop your whining about something that you can't control anyhow! If control is what you're after I suggest you play alone! Me, I'll keep doing what I'm doing until I find something I enjoy more.

 

For the record, all events held here are not full of temp hides. The following is a note placed on the cache page for an event that Commander Bob and I hosted along with some other members of a group called "Team Badger" (Team Badger being ANYONE who shows up...no matter where you're from!).

 

Badger Brunch ~ GCMRBC

February 18 by MajorBrat (1162 found)

PLEASE NOTE: In the spirit of Team Badger we have decided to only drop a couple of temps for this event! Team Badger is not about the numbers, it's about the TEAM! While we will have a laptop available for loading area caches, we suggest that you lock and load from home (or at the very least bring your GPSR cable w/ you. We'll have e-tex, magellan, and Garmin 76). See you there...Major Brat

 

I have learned a few things about Geocaching in the last 20+ months: While one cache may resemble another, no two caches are alike. No two cachers are alike either. We all move at our own pace, search out caches of our own choosing and log according to our own beliefs. No one person has the right to tell another whether or not they are doing something wrong. They may offer opinion (which is what I'm doing now), but no one has to listen. What's right for you may not be right for me. What's right for me may totally tick you off. It's your choice whether or not to play with me...it's YOUR CHOICE. Make it according to what you want to do...not because I told you to.

 

Grow up and stop acting like a bunch of pre-schoolers!

 

MajorBrat

Link to comment
I have learned a few things about Geocaching in the last 20+ months:  While one cache may resemble another, no two caches are alike.  No two cachers are alike either.  We all move at our own pace, search out caches of our own choosing and log according to our own beliefs.  No one person has the right to tell another whether or not they are doing something wrong.  They may offer opinion (which is what I'm doing now), but no one has to listen.  What's right for you may not be right for me.  What's right for me may totally tick you off.  It's your choice whether or not to play with me...it's YOUR CHOICE.  Make it according to what you want to do...not because I told you to.

Raise your hand if you'd be willing to play golf or poker with someone who had this attitude.

 

Me neither. People who love a game like its parameters to be well defined. Even a non-competitive game needs clear boundaries to make sense -- you don't get in the books for climbing Everest if you only made it halfway up, even if "we call halfway pretty much done here in Idaho."

 

Grow up and stop acting like a bunch of pre-schoolers!

 

MajorBrat

This juxtaposition is just precious.

Link to comment
I have learned a few things about Geocaching in the last 20+ months:  While one cache may resemble another, no two caches are alike.  No two cachers are alike either.  We all move at our own pace, search out caches of our own choosing and log according to our own beliefs.  No one person has the right to tell another whether or not they are doing something wrong.  They may offer opinion (which is what I'm doing now), but no one has to listen.  What's right for you may not be right for me.  What's right for me may totally tick you off.  It's your choice whether or not to play with me...it's YOUR CHOICE.  Make it according to what you want to do...not because I told you to.

Raise your hand if you'd be willing to play golf or poker with someone who had this attitude.

 

Me neither. People who love a game like its parameters to be well defined. Even a non-competitive game needs clear boundaries to make sense -- you don't get in the books for climbing Everest if you only made it halfway up, even if "we call halfway pretty much done here in Idaho."

 

Grow up and stop acting like a bunch of pre-schoolers!

 

MajorBrat

This juxtaposition is just precious.

This is exactly the small-minded stuff I was referring to. Instead of quoting things that matter you went straight to something you could disagree with. Again I say, "GROW UP!"

 

I am amazed at the people who are offering opinions about how things should be run. Perhaps they should spend more time on the trails and less time on the forums, then they may see how different each trail really is. I looked at the profiles for EVERY person who is on this thread. The average person posting has somewhere in the 200-500 finds range, yet has 1000+ forum posts in the year or more they've been caching. Hmmmm...am I going to listen to those who talk about it, or those who are out there doing it? It's a no brainer! I'm watching and learning from the ones who are doing it!

 

And for the record...my hand is raised high!

MB

Link to comment
This is exactly the small-minded stuff I was referring to.  Instead of quoting things that matter you went straight to something you could disagree with.  Again I say, "GROW UP!" 

You consider it "small minded" that I quoted the bit of your message that stood out to me, and not the part you thought was especially...well, whatever you thought it was? So disagreeing with your choices is immature? I need to grow up until the things I care about are the same things you care about? Um-hm.

 

I am amazed at the people who are offering opinions about how things should be run.  Perhaps they should spend more time on the trails and less time on the forums, then they may see how different each trail really is.  I looked at the profiles for EVERY person who is on this thread.  The average person posting has somewhere in the 200-500 finds range, yet has 1000+ forum posts in the year or more they've been caching.  Hmmmm...am I going to listen to those who talk about it, or those who are out there doing it?  It's a no brainer!  I'm watching and learning from the ones who are doing it!

Ah. Yes. There's maturity for you.

Link to comment
On my individual account I have cached in 13 states. Does anyone care about that? No...all you care about is that I logged some dang caches that you didn't get to log because you weren't there that day. You know, the day I spent 6-12 hours walking around in the woods signing my name on logs or stamping my master cache sheet. You weren't there to see me scale the brick wall or walk across the creek on a fallen tree so that I could log a cache. You weren't there to see the mosquitos eating me alive as I stood breathing with the aide of an inhaler while climbing 500 feet up a steep incline. ..............

So? You get extra points for that??? Some caches you can reach from your car and some people have to camp over night because the hike is so long. One cache one find. There aren't extra points for the amount of work it takes. Temp. caches are just a part of the event.

 

I think it's been said best a few times. If it's not an approved gc.com cache, then why would you get "credit" for it on gc.com?

Link to comment
So many of you are concerned with the "numbers" we're logging here in WI...have any of you looked at profiles to see that almost half of my personal finds are in other states? On my individual account I have cached in 13 states. Does anyone care about that? No...all you care about is that I logged some dang caches that you didn't get to log because you weren't there that day. You know, the day I spent 6-12 hours walking around in the woods signing my name on logs or stamping my master cache sheet. You weren't there to see me scale the brick wall or walk across the creek on a fallen tree so that I could log a cache. You weren't there to see the mosquitos eating me alive as I stood breathing with the aide of an inhaler while climbing 500 feet up a steep incline. You weren't there to see me standing atop of a bluff after walking with a group of cachers in search of yet another temporary hide. You weren't there to see a group of people laughing at the "finder's tree" while waiting for the last person to discover the hidden treasure. (We don't just go and grab it. When walking w/ a group each person upon finding the cache keeps wandering around pretending they're still searching. Once they are a safe distance away they call the "finder's tree" and as others find it, they join the group. This way each person is allowed the chance to find the cache on their own. No one is handed a find just because they're there!) You weren't there to see the smiles on the faces of the cache hiders as we talked about their efforts. You weren't there beaming with pride at the thought of your cache being searched out by 100+ people in the course of a single day.

So, you climbed the highest mountain, found yourself in enemy terratory, attacked by a bear, snake bitten, fell off the cliff....

 

If you find a terracache or some non-gc.com cache, do you log it here because it was so tough to find? no...

 

Don't you think it's silly to log that someone has attended 100 events even though they only attended 3 events... or in your case Major Brat, you profile shows you have been to 100 events! Wow, your really into this stuff. but a quick check at all the 100 events only brings up 1 event?!!?

 

I'm going out caching and kayaking today, have a nice day!

 

Dave

Link to comment

From the Forum Guidelines, linked to at the top left of every page:

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

Link to comment
I don't think I have ever attended an event where I got log more than 3-4 temp caches on the event page. And even that's only occurred twice. 100 seems a tad excessive.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

Aren't events supposed to be about eating good food, meeting people, and maybe doing a little caching?

 

In my humble opinion, if you're setting up 100 temporary caches for an event, than the event is no longer about meeting people, or eating food, it's about trying to find as many caches as possible...

Link to comment
People who love a game like its parameters to be well defined. Even a non-competitive game needs clear boundaries to make sense -- you don't get in the books for climbing Everest if you only made it halfway up, even if "we call halfway pretty much done here in Idaho."

But that's where your premises are wrong.

 

It's not a "game", it's a "hobby"....er, "recreation"...er, RASH (RecreationActivitySportHobby). Hobbies/Recreations don't have parameters. You just do them for the enjoyment. If it's more of a game/sport for you, that's fine, but defining it as such (for you) doesn't require anyone else to be playing your same game/sport. For that reason alone, people can 'geocache' and yet they can also:

  • not log online
  • log other caches through a common listing with the cache owner
  • decide not to trade anything
  • take more TBs than they placed
  • find caches but not hide any
  • find only virtuals and locationless

All of these things fall outside of *somebody's* definition of 'geocaching'.

 

Some endzone-to-endzone thru-hikers of the AppTrail look down on "thru-hikers" who do the AT in pieces (aka section-hikers). Regardless, both are accepted ways of saying that you've done the 2,000 miles and the ATC (the official sort-of body for this recognition) will award each equally. But the thru-hikers still get sort of snobbish about the difference.

Link to comment
I don't think I have ever attended an event where I got log more than 3-4 temp caches on the event page. And even that's only occurred twice. 100 seems a tad excessive.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

Aren't events supposed to be about eating good food, meeting people, and maybe doing a little caching?

 

In my humble opinion, if you're setting up 100 temporary caches for an event, than the event is no longer about meeting people, or eating food, it's about trying to find as many caches as possible...

Aren't events about whatever the event "hider" has deemed them to be (within accordance to the few stipulations of this site that gets them listed here)?

 

Let's not start forcing cookie-cutters on what people find to be acceptable fun. Let the attendees decide whether they had fun or not and whether they want to go to an event, not some "expectation" on what the purpose of events are.

 

Some events are entirely about the food and camaraderie and have 0 caches involved. Some events are entirely about the caching and have little food/drink involved. Some are in-between. Let's just be happy there are people that like to setup events and a way to do so here that lets other people attend.

Link to comment
...You know, the day I spent 6-12 hours walking around in the woods signing my name on logs or stamping my master cache sheet.  You weren't there to see me scale the brick wall or walk across the creek on a fallen tree so that I could log a cache.  You weren't there to see the mosquitos eating me alive as I stood breathing with the aide of an inhaler while climbing 500 feet up a steep incline.  You weren't there to see me standing atop of a bluff after walking with a group of cachers in search of yet another temporary hide.  You weren't there to see a group of people laughing at the "finder's tree" while waiting for the last person to discover the hidden treasure.  (We don't just go and grab it.  When walking w/ a group each person upon finding the cache keeps wandering around pretending they're still searching.  Once they are a safe distance away they call the "finder's tree" and as others find it, they join the group.  This way each person is allowed the chance to find the cache on their own.  No one is handed a find just because they're there!)  You weren't there to see the smiles on the faces of the cache hiders as we talked about their efforts.  You weren't there beaming with pride at the thought of your cache being searched out by 100+ people in the course of a single day.  ....

How much time or work you put into finding a bunch of event only caches is not at all relevent. The question essentially comes down to should events be logged multpile times to reflect event only caches.

 

I've busted my butt on event only caches and "attened the event" That in my books is the same as you busting your butt to "attend the event" however many times you needed to to "Log" the event caches.

 

What it comes down to is if the caches were meant to be caches they should be listed as such. You got a bonus round of event finds before they were public but you log the public caches. Is is right that your event owner says "log the crap out of the event guys for your event caches, while mine says "Hope you had a good time?"

 

For now that's exactly how it is. However this discussion is should it be? I don't think so. I think one cache one find and if you want more finds for an event list the caches so the cache logs can tell the caches story, instead of the event logs telling the story of the caches and you have to dig for the event's own story.

 

In the end I doubt you woult be any less proud of all the things you did that nobody was there for if you logged it on the cache listing directly instead of the event. If this site was set up as "one cahe one find" so you just could not do it we would not even be having this discussion and I'll bet those event caches would of been listed individually if it was important to the even owner, or the owner would say "hope you had fun" and everhone probably did.

Edited by Renegade Knight
Link to comment

Wow what a long thread for people to debate whether "bonus" smileys are acceptable.

 

I can remember a couple of threads in the past (yes, I'm too lazy to search right now) where some owners were allowing people to claim bonus smileys and people debated back and forth as to whether it was ok.

 

Ultimately, the answer seemed to be as RK mentioned above: for now, the site lets you do it, so it's ok for some owners to do it.

 

I recently completely a 40 leg multi-cache which had many redirectors that could have stood as really neat caches on their own. In the planning stages, many cachers felt like they should be able to claim 40 smileys for the amount of work it would be. Ultimately the OWNER decided he would only allow a single find when you reached the final cache.

 

I've seen several caches that let you claim a bonus smiley for performing a stunt at the cache...we also have a local moving cache that allows you to claim multiple finds since the cache, by it's nature, is a "new find".

 

For me, I follow the 1 GC waypoint, 1 smiley rule. Some people log their own hides, some log their own events, some claim bonus smileys....but not me.

 

Does it hurt me if people claim smileys that I won't? Not at all...it's within the way the system works, so I don't get worked up over it.

 

I don't know that we're going to resolve this fundamental difference in thinking between cachers who believe in the 1 waypoint 1 smiley and those that believe it's ok to log bonuses. There is no right or wrong answer....it's differences in how people play the game.

 

Since there's no prize for having the most smileys, what's the difference?

Edited by KoosKoos
Link to comment
I looked at the profiles for EVERY person who is on this thread. The average person posting has somewhere in the 200-500 finds range, yet has 1000+ forum posts in the year or more they've been caching. Hmmmm...am I going to listen to those who talk about it, or those who are out there doing it? It's a no brainer! I'm watching and learning from the ones who are doing it!

And you've pointed out the problem with trying to use any sort of numbers to justify a person's opinion.

 

If someone with only 200 finds logged one "attended" at the event where someone else logged all 100 temporary caches that they did together, how is their experience level any different? They've both found as many hides, been out in the woods just as long, but one has a much higher smiley count than the other.....

 

Disagree with someone's opinions if you want, but don't use their smiley or forum post count to justify it.

Link to comment

Again, I think it would be great if there was a legitimate way to give a temp cache it's own cache page. But there is not- and until then I think we will probably just keep playing the game game our way, irregardless of those who are overly concerned about our practice.

 

Our annual campout averages 50-60 temp caches, and our annual picnic is about the same scenario. Everyone is invited, and everyone can make their own decision about logging those finds online.

 

Cache On!

Link to comment
So get off of your high horses people!  If you want to cache here...welcome.  If not, stop your whining about something that you can't control anyhow!  If control is what you're after I suggest you play alone!  Me, I'll keep doing what I'm doing until I find something I enjoy more.

The philosophical points raised by people who disagree with this concept are worthy of consideration. Their concerns should not be brushed aside with an angry comment. (Of course I recognize that you have been insulted and had your integrity challenged multiple times - hard not to fire back at that). It would be nice to have some consensus or at least continued rational discussion on this subject.

 

You did an excellent job in giving more background on this event. The black & white logic people would do well to set aside their on/off-switch opinions for a moment and try to get the feel for what the WGA event was really like; how much fun it was, the temporary requirement for the park, the hard work that went into hiding and finding those caches and the consensus of a large local caching community that those caches qualified as finds. It was not simply a party game. Sounds to me like it was In The Spirit Of Geocaching.

 

I think the more important question here is whether or not it really matters if people log temp caches.

 

Basically, I agree with all the naysayers here that logging temp caches is an item to be concerned about. To simply say that anyone can play the game they way they choose to play it is not a pill easily swallowed for me. Most of us want the find numbers to mean something. Especially those who say "it's not about the numbers". If it were truly not about the numbers for them they would NEVER actually say "it's not about the numbers".

 

We don't want anarchy in this sport any more than we do in the governing of our country. I will delete any find on my caches that appears to be bogus - but I will (and do) allow finds for "appropriate" creative approaches or good stories.

 

I accept that the WGA cache finds are legitimate and that the computer program was creatively manipulated to record those finds. But I don't like the way it looks.

 

I would actually welcome a program change that allows only one find per cache page even though many times it can be appropriate to do multiple finds. Gc.com events would then have to put more effort into permanent status caches and give up the temporary finds. This seems like the correct approach to me. But I will never consider the WGA cache finds from these events as bogus, cheap or inflationary.

 

minor edits for clarity and spelling

Edited by Team Sagefox
Link to comment
One cache, one find.

Ah... if only life was that simple.

Exactly. I found 56 caches that day- so I logged 56 finds. Not a real complicated concept, eh?

 

And for those that arter saying "It wasn't listed on GC.com- yes, it was Right Here

 

Don't you think it's silly to log that someone has attended 100 events even though they only attended 3 events... or in your case Major Brat, you profile shows you have been to 100 events! Wow, your really into this stuff. but a quick check at all the 100 events only brings up 1 event?!!?

 

Before you start slinging the mud, at least take one quick second to check your facts. A quick look at their stats, or even Heaven forbid reading the whole thread before posting would have told you that there were only 33 caches at this one event, and the others were spread out amongst 4 other events.

 

I am all for a good debate, but mudslinging, especially based on false facts that would have only taken a moment to verify are simple small-mindedness.

Edited by Docapi
Link to comment
One cache, one find.

Ah... if only life was that simple.

Exactly. I found 56 caches that day- so I logged 56 finds. Not a real complicated concept, eh?

 

I think he meant 1 gc.com cache, one find. The caches are not listed on gc.com so why should anyone get credit for finding them? If it was a terracaching cache, would you log it here... oh sorry, you probably would.

And for those that arter saying "It wasn't listed on GC.com- yes, it was Right Here

 

the caches were not listed on gc.com, the event was.

 

Before you start slinging the mud, at least take one quick second to check your facts. A quick look at their stats, or even Heaven forbid reading the whole thread before posting would have told you that there were only 33 caches at this one event, and the others were spread out amongst 4 other events.

My appologies

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.asp...74&ul=MajorBrat

 

shows 113 events attended and when you click on the link, only 2 events show up.

 

I am all for a good debate, but mudslinging, especially based on false facts that would have only taken a moment to verify are simple small-mindedness.

 

What false facts? the above example shows fact, not false facts.

 

The debate here is whether or not these "temp" caches that are not listed on GC.com should be counted. The debate is for or against posting an "atteded" for each "temp" cache you find.

 

Personally there are a good deal more people who say this goes against the grain.

 

Perhaps the powers that be should work on a sub catagory for events in which you find temporary or non-geocaching.com caches but the last I heard, they did not like the idea of temp caches.

 

Dave

 

 

+

Edited by GPS_DAVE_11735
Link to comment

Getting credit for how hard the cache was or how much work you had to do to find it? Puh-lease! Just because I hike up a 14,000 foot mountain (and we have over 50 of them here in Colorado) doesn't mean I get to claim a find on Geocaching.com. If I hike up there and find a cache listed here, a Terracache, a Navicache, and do some CITO, I only get to claim the one cache that was listed here. I don't get credit for how much work I put into it.

 

The event cache includes all those temporary caches as the event, and there should be one find for the whole thing. Only one cache was listed on the site, with 70 or so "stages". If you should get credit for each of those "stages", then what about this:

 

Scenario 1: I drive down to the mall and place a microcache at the bottom of a lamppost. 10 minutes of work which includes painting the container, printing out a logsheet, and driving to the mall. My credit? One "hide"

 

Scenario 2: I hike through the snow for hours gathering waypoints. 1000 feet of elevation gain over a couple of miles. I go home and prepare containers to hide at each waypoint. One container is so detailed it takes weeks of work. I craft a puzzle to lead from stage to stage. I go back up the mountain while the snow is melting off the trees. It's almost like rain. I do the whole hike again from waypoint to waypoint so I can hide the containers. The whole process took about 2 months and (if I remember correctly) 3-4 visits. My credit? One "hide"

 

Does it really matter "how much work" you put into it? No! If it isn't listed on this site, you don't get any credit on this site! Pretty simple.

Link to comment
I don't think I have ever attended an event where I got log more than 3-4 temp caches on the event page. And even that's only occurred twice. 100 seems a tad excessive.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

Aren't events supposed to be about eating good food, meeting people, and maybe doing a little caching?

 

In my humble opinion, if you're setting up 100 temporary caches for an event, than the event is no longer about meeting people, or eating food, it's about trying to find as many caches as possible...

You are wise beyond your years Grasshopper :)

 

I agree!

Link to comment

The more I think about it, the more I believe that with the numerous amount of temp caches being hidden at the event, surely one of those could be a permanent cache.

 

Then the multiple loggings would be done on that one cache page that is actively listed on gc.com (the listing would go live AFTER the event takes place, giving the attendees first crack at it, of course)

.

At least that logging method reflects 50 finds on a "cache" cache, be it micro, small, regular, mystery, whatever, rather than 50 finds on one "event" cache.

That seems a little more correct representation-wise on stats pages of what the cachers have actually done.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I've been to an event, by the way.

Some of us hid and submitted caches that were approved (but not live on the gc.com site until after the event was over). We printed out the pages and took them to the event. After the meeting some went on the hunt. Then everone who hunted that night logged their finds after the caches "went live" on the gc site.

I had to go home that night, but was able to later go hunt down many of these caches. Some are now archived, some are still there today (one of mine is)

 

If it needs to be a huge hunt, list 2 multis with 25 stages each, then you've got two awesome cache pages everyone cache be impressed and in awe of.... I think that would be too cool!

 

I'm not condemning anyone's game, I just think we'd all feel better on the same ground. Hopefully something will work out :)

Edited by MountainMudbug
Link to comment

 

My appologies

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.asp...74&ul=MajorBrat

 

shows 113 events attended and when you click on the link, only 2 events show up.

 

I am all for a good debate, but mudslinging, especially based on false facts that would have only taken a moment to verify are simple small-mindedness.

 

What false facts? the above example shows fact, not false facts.

 

You need to look a little harder. there are only 2 events listed on the page you link to- neither one of them the event in question- but there are 6 pages of events.

 

See at the top of the page? Yeah right there where it says:

 

Total Records: 113 - Page: 1 of 6 Prev.  <<  <[1 2 3 4 5 6]>  >>  Next

 

As I said, get your facts right before slinging mud.

 

MountainMudBug,

 

The Campout was in a WI State park. WI has an "is not allowed" policy at this time in state parks. We got permission to place the temp caches, but all of them had to be removed immediately after the event. No permanent caches allowed.

 

I don't know if a permamanent cache would help this issue, though. I guess I would think that logging a permanent cache repeatedly would be much more misleading than loggng an attended repeatedly.

 

The way it is now, it at least does distinguish between regular caches and event temp caches. Anybody that wants to figure out what exactly I have logged can tell pretty easily the difference by looking at my stats page. If they were logged on a regular cache page, it would look really bad, like I logged the same cache over and over.

 

I actually kinda like the Idea of One cache being entered as a multi. We could have a bonus cache for anybody that finds all the other caches. Then the other caches could be considered "legs" of the multi, and each cache could be logged as "legs" of the final cache.

 

But that would just open another can of worms.

Edited by Docapi
Link to comment
One cache, one find.

Ah... if only life was that simple.

Exactly. I found 56 caches that day- so I logged 56 finds. Not a real complicated concept, eh?

I took this to mean "one cache, one find" (...as in, never suffering a DNF).

 

Indeed, if only life was that simple! :)

Link to comment
We got permission to place the temp caches, but all of them had to be removed immediately after the event. No permanent caches allowed.

 

Could be a cache with 24 temp stages in the park (laminated tags, film cans, anything) and one final listed, approved cache in a location just outside the border region of the park. This is often the solution given to those who want to place a virtual where physical caches aren't allowed - "make it a multi of info gathering stages leading to a physical cache placed outside the 'no-no' zone!"

 

(not trying to argue the point here, just pointing out another possibility)

 

I guess I would think that logging a permanent cache repeatedly would be much more misleading than loggng an attended repeatedly.

 

Seems the same to me either way.....

Link to comment
Shouldn't you send your message to the account that hosted the event and make your concern heard? All you'll get here is rabble.

Did somebody slap you with a pickle or something? You've been awfully sour lately.

Put it another way. Instead of calling people out in the forums and shaking your finger at them, it is more appropriate to take it to the person instead of attacking them here, or someone who can actually do something about whatever issue concerns you. I don't object to bringing up a situation and asking for input, but it is very uncool to say "hey look at what this guy is doing."

 

As for being sour, I've always been sour. I eat sour patch children for breakfast. But that is neither here nor there (and generally distracts from the discussion. How about a PM next time?).

It is nice to see that Jerimy admits to being like me, after he ridiculed me. I wonder why he changed his "picture" for the forums? I like the way he grew out from the corner of his other picture and such cute clothing.

Link to comment
3 pages of discussion for something so trivial. I have to be indoors right now but most of you don't need to. Enjoy your weekend outdoors. That's the whole reason why the site was designed in the first place.

Just in from a day on the trail, thanks. One smiley and one DNF, on account of I am insufficiently recovered from a chest mung I suffered a couple of weeks back to make it through a whole multi from our local famous sadistic multi-hiding guy. It's 4:30 on my coast, after all.

 

You should be grateful for the passion generated by even the smallest issues related to geocaching. An activity that didn't draw fire wouldn't hold the attention, either. People seldom gather to argue the minutiae of topics they don't give a flip about.

Link to comment
3 pages of discussion for something so trivial. I have to be indoors right now but most of you don't need to. Enjoy your weekend outdoors. That's the whole reason why the site was designed in the first place.

Awesome weekend outdoors, thanks.

Spent most of today (it's 4:40pm here now) sitting in the backyard sipping margaritas and watching these guys fly overhead:

 

ad7509fa-b451-4e28-b85a-2f912fadba86.jpg

 

There are less then 2 dozen Corsairs in the world still in flyable condition, and 9 of them have been buzzing my town all weekend. AWESOME!

Link to comment

You need to look a little harder. there are only 2 events listed on the page you link to- neither one of them the event in question- but there are 6 pages of events.

 

 

semantics....16 events and the total events were logged 113 times.

semantics....16 events and the total events were logged 113 times.

Link to comment

Awesome weekend outdoors, thanks.

Spent most of today (it's 4:40pm here now) sitting in the backyard sipping margaritas and watching these guys fly overhead:

ad7509fa-b451-4e28-b85a-2f912fadba86.jpg

 

I went to "bay day" in Oyster Bay. I got to try out a bunch of Kayaks, I'm getting close to making a purchase! Then it was off to Belmont Lake State Park to get a paddle boat for the kids, then it was off to only one cache. The sun is still shining so I'm going to head outside again.

 

Dave

Link to comment

Yes, temporary caches are just like regular caches in that you find them the same way. I can see wanting to log them as finds also. But why would you want to log them as "attended" on an Event page? :) Id rather just forget those temporary cache logs than to screw up my stats and thereby make them meaningless! :)

Link to comment

If I go log 1000 finds on a single cache, I challenge anyone to give me a legitimate way that this hurts you.

 

Has your fun been diminished? Would there be any special prize that I would win due to my inflated numbers? Does GC.com offer special perks to the person with the highest find count? The answers to these and all other similar questions is NO.

 

Go worry about your own stats and don't spend your time worrying about what the next guy does.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...