Parking Coords Suggestion

June 1, 2005

Please tell me what you think of this: Many caches have multiple waypoints associated with them. Would you like as part of the gpx download that these other waypoints are downloaded as well? This other waypoints I am thinking of are driving directions to the site, parking coords, maybe coords along the path to the final site.

Maybe I am just lazy… heck, I know I am when it comes to entering waypoints thus I use GSAK.

What made me think of this was our caching trip last night. I had loaded the cords for the caches at the local park that we had not yet found via GSAK. As we were driving, I realized I did not manually load the parking cords; thus, when we got to the park, I had to pull over at the entrance and manually enter them. Obviously this is not a huge problem by any means, just a feature I could see as an additional “Members Only” perk as it would closely be tied to the PQs.

I am thinking that it could use a variation of the GCXXXX number, perhaps 1GCXXXX, 2GCXXXX, etc. This may cause an issue for older GPSrs (that is if the number of characters in the name exceed 6 characters), but it would really only affect people downloading the cache info via gpx, and these people typically have newer units (I think) without the 6 character limitation.

I did a search for this; however, if I missed a similar discussion, please let me know where it is.

EDIT- Quick thought-- this would obviously affect the way new caches are entered into be approved as there would have to be areas in the form to fill this information in. Another perk could be this would make the approvers' jobs easier as they could simply download the points similar to how we do a gpx file and look on the map and see if there are any issues with the cache (ie- the parking is on one side of a railroad tracks and the cache is on the other). Just a thought....

Edited June 1, 2005 by CW Iams

1.8k · June 1, 2005

Sometimes finding the parking coordinates is half the challenge. Sometimes any of twenty different parking lots would be equally convenient. Sometimes the parking areas might be closed at different times. Sometimes you don't even need to get out of the car to find the cache.

Seems to me there are plenty of mapping and aerial image programs available already to permit you to figure out where to park. I see no reason why I should have to spoon-feed you the directions to my cache.

2.5k · June 1, 2005

I'd rather not have parking coordinates. I like walking. At the supermarket I like to park away from the door and walk past the cars that are circling the lot looking for a closer spot. I can still walk, those close spots are for those who can't.

No need to change the game that we have been playing all these years. I would have no problem with somebody creating a new game that did include those coordinates though, just not here please.

June 1, 2005

I have to agree. I know when my autorouting starts running in a circle I best start figuring out where the park or whatever entrance is. Part of the discovery and part of the fun.

2.7k · June 1, 2005

Not for me - I hate trying to find the right, or LEGAL place to park. I go geocaching to get out into the woods - not to burn up a tank of gas trying to find out where I am allowed to park. Drives me nuts when that info is not included in the cache description. I don't have an autorouting GPS, and most times when I actually have the time to go out, I want to spend my precious little time in the woods, not behind the wheel. I usually can't plan ahead - I end up having a moment of free time and - boom - off I go.

I'd rather have the information and be able to ignore it if I wanna than not have it at all.

2.4k · June 1, 2005

The way to find the best parking coordinates is USAPhotomaps. You can import the .gpx pocket query, see the caches, and use the aerial photos to see where the parking lots are, as well as the trails near them and the caches. You might even find parking spots that the hider didn't know about, and you may find that the best path isn't the shortest path, because trails often wind around instead of being straight. If you aren't previewing your caches with USAPhotomaps, you're missing a valuable source of information.

2.7k · June 1, 2005

You're assuming that someone will always have access to that. Often I find I have a printout (my PalmPilot died) and have a spare moment and no PC access.

June 1, 2005

The way to find the best parking coordinates is USAPhotomaps. You can import the .gpx pocket query, see the caches, and use the aerial photos to see where the parking lots are, as well as the trails near them and the caches. You might even find parking spots that the hider didn't know about, and you may find that the best path isn't the shortest path, because trails often wind around instead of being straight. If you aren't previewing your caches with USAPhotomaps, you're missing a valuable source of information.

Thats all well and good if you live in the US but us in the UK etc dont have (or atleast i havent found any) ariel maps for the UK

This idea of coordinates for parking is a good idea.

JMO

22.3k · June 1, 2005

The solution that's been discussed in the past for this is to allow for the upload of supplemental waypoints to the cache page as a GPX file. These waypoints could be for parking coordinates, intermediate stages of a multicache, or just points of interest like a trail junction or a nice view.

2.4k · June 1, 2005

I think that the OP wasn't asking that cache owners add parking coordinates or directions -- just that if additional coordinates are available on the page, as they are for many caches (whether for parking, or multiple waypoints, or trailheads, etc.), that they somehow be included in a downloadable fie rather than having to be manually entered into the GPS.

edit: out-typed by Keystone

Edited June 1, 2005 by the hermit crabs

June 1, 2005

I gotta say there was a little more attitude in some of the responses than I expected.

With that said, let me explain my thinking on the matter:

I see no reason why I should have to spoon-feed you the directions to my cache.

I am not looking to be spoon-fed. I typically upload the caches I am going to be doing to Microsoft Streets and Trips and/or TOPO!. I think this feature would make uploading / prepping for a cache trip even easier / less time consuming for the obvious reason I would not be manually entering these coords in. Ultimately, I want to be caching, not planning.

No need to change the game that we have been playing all these years. I would have no problem with somebody creating a new game that did include those coordinates though, just not here please.

Maybe I am not grasping something or my original post was unclear, but I am not intending to change the game by any means. I am merely suggesting a new feature. Please explain how this would change the game.

I'd rather have the information and be able to ignore it if I wanna than not have it at all.

Thats my thinking-- it would be there to use, if interested... :lol:

The way to find the best parking coordinates is USAPhotomaps

While I am not familiar with that software, I am assuming you can upload waypoints to it. I would think it would be beneficial to upload the waypoints directly to the map- then you could see where the cache hidder suggests parking and determine if you agree.

Just my thoughts...

Clint

Edited June 1, 2005 by CW Iams

June 1, 2005

KA and the hermit crabs are right on my thoughts/intentions...

2.4k · June 1, 2005

"KA and the hermit crabs"

Sounds like a good name for a band! :lol:

7.3k · June 1, 2005

This would be a great new feature - if you dump the GCpart of the prefix you could stick with a 6 digit identifier 01XXXX=parking, trailhead or whatever. Just something that COULD be available where cache owners are providing additional waypoints in the write up. Yeah, I'd love that. (Aside, I love parking coords and often provide them).

2.7k · June 1, 2005

"KA and the hermit crabs"

Sounds like a good name for a band!

Captain Geech & The Shrimp Shack Shooters would like to have a word with you... :lol:

June 1, 2005

"KA and the hermit crabs"

Sounds like a good name for a band!

Captain Geech & The Shrimp Shack Shooters would like to have a word with you...

they need to have an emoticon of someone scratching their head...

Edited June 1, 2005 by CW Iams

2.7k · June 1, 2005

"KA and the hermit crabs"

Sounds like a good name for a band!

Captain Geech & The Shrimp Shack Shooters would like to have a word with you...

they need to have an emoticon of someone scratching their head...

Sorry, obscure reference. :lol:

June 1, 2005

i've had my share of run ins with autorouting lately, but that is part of the adventure i guess. i just end up laughing it off (after i'm done cursing it out).

parking coords are nice when there is a specific place that one should park or if the parking situation is kind of hinky. lately, i have come across several caches where, if you want to park anywhere nearby, you have to park on the property of private businesses. i don't like doing that.

it would be a nice option to have a separate field for parking coords *as an option* in PQs and GSAK.

June 1, 2005

I am thinking that it could use a variation of the GCXXXX number, perhaps 1GCXXXX, 2GCXXXX, etc. This may cause an issue for older GPSrs (that is if the number of characters in the name exceed 6 characters), but it would really only affect people downloading the cache info via gpx, and these people typically have newer units (I think) without the 6 character limitation.

We could have GPXXXX = GeoParking

Sometimes part of the fun is trying to find parking, but I'm partly of the opinion that if I had to drive to the cache in the first place there was already a problem with it :lol: (would you believe I haven't found very many parking lot caches). Other times, it's nice to out-of-towners to suggest parking--especially if the point of the cache is the hike and not the drive. For instance, I wanted to go find a cache that sounded like a nice hike near a lake the other day, but not knowing the area very well I went to the main trailhead parking. Unfortunately, the actual trailhead for the cache required entering from a different spot with little, if any, signage. I never got to hunt the cache because I didn't know how to get onto the trail.

Also, I don't have a problem scanning the page for suggested parking and entering them into my GPSr. I also know if you want to remove a step that there are some sites out there that will grab any coordinates off of a cache page and give them to you prepared for .loc download (does someone have a link?).

June 1, 2005

"KA and the hermit crabs"

Sounds like a good name for a band!

Captain Geech & The Shrimp Shack Shooters would like to have a word with you...

they need to have an emoticon of someone scratching their head...

Sorry, obscure reference.

Ahh ha... I have heard of that movie-- heard it is a good one-- but have never seen it...

2.9k · June 1, 2005

If you aren't previewing your caches with USAPhotomaps, you're missing a valuable source of information.

or in different country :lol: .

Being able to upload a GPX file to the cache page would be great this cache or this cache would be much easier with a seperate gpx file.

There is nothing to stop you uploading to your own website and linking from the cache page however as an immediate workround.

5.7k · June 1, 2005

Hi and welcome to the game. Cache on Dude. :lol:

1.1k · June 1, 2005

Sometimes finding the parking coordinates is half the challenge. Sometimes any of twenty different parking lots would be equally convenient. Sometimes the parking areas might be closed at different times. Sometimes you don't even need to get out of the car to find the cache.

Seems to me there are plenty of mapping and aerial image programs available already to permit you to figure out where to park. I see no reason why I should have to spoon-feed you the directions to my cache.

yep and I leave out parking mostly becasue when I do a puzzle cache I eont want to make it to easy.

cheers

1.8k · June 1, 2005

We could have GPXXXX = GeoParking

Aww, dang! The domain GEOPARKING.COM is unavailable!

June 1, 2005

Aww, dang! The domain GEOPARKING.COM is unavailable!

Are you saying that someone is parking that domain? :lol:

2.5k · June 1, 2005

No need to change the game that we have been playing all these years. I would have no problem with somebody creating a new game that did include those coordinates though, just not here please.

Maybe I am not grasping something or my original post was unclear, but I am not intending to change the game by any means. I am merely suggesting a new feature. Please explain how this would change the game.

It’s pretty easy to understand, actually.

If I hunted a cache that had no parking coordinates, I may have found an interesting approach, had a longer walk, or encountered some obstacles to get there. Or not, I may have found the best parking on my own through research or maybe even dumb luck. Regardless, I earned the smiley by doing it that way.

Now, you call yourself lazy in the title and text of your post. I wouldn’t call you that because it would be impolite. So how would I word it? Let’s see, I guess I would say you need an extra clue or a shortcut. So because of that, the parking coordinates are posted, and I use them to do the same cache. I don’t get to have the same adventure as before because now the cache is almost a drive-up. The smiley earned in this example has less value to me than in the first example, IMO.

June 1, 2005

I don’t get to have the same adventure as before because now the cache is almost a drive-up. The smiley earned in this example has less value to me than in the first example, IMO.

When I think of parking coordinates, I'm thinking more along the lines of suggesting the trailhead where there might not be anything more than a turn-off, and then you go on a lengthy hike for the cache. I wouldn't waste the energy suggesting a parking location for a city park or a Wal-Mart lamppost micro :lol: , but there are plenty of times that they would be helpful.

Not too long ago I found a cache in a park. I looked around for a legal place to park on the street for a bit, finally found one, and walked the ten minutes or so in to find the cache. Only when I got close to it did I realize that the park had a parking lot that would have essentually made it a walk-up. I snickered to myself, but I actually enjoyed the walk across the park more than if I had parked in the lot. This is not where I see the function being used. But if my goal is to go on a long hike or a climb, parking coordinates might mean the difference between making the journey at all or not. The last place I want to be is sitting in my car driving around looking for parking.

Therefore, I think a parking option on the page could be nice in some situations, if it can be done in a convenient way. However, I'd rather hand enter in given parking coordinates for a special cache than end up downloading tons of unnecessary parking coordinates into my GPSr just because the option is available to people. So, maybe I'm not taking a strong side other than recognizing the pros and cons of giving parking coordinates.

June 1, 2005

Oh, cachew nut, where to start....

I am not suggesting it be manditory to post parking coords (or other coords for that matter)... I am suggesting this be an option. Obviously it would not be applicable for lamppost micros or certain mystery caches.

Now, you call yourself lazy in the title and text of your post. I wouldn’t call you that because it would be impolite. So how would I word it? Let’s see, I guess I would say you need an extra clue or a shortcut.

In case you did not realize, my lazy reference was a joke. I enjoy few things more than getting outside and playing... I am far from a couch potato or a lazy person. My lazy reference was refering to entering waypoints. I would rather be hiking the trail as opposed to stopping and entering the waypoints for where the trail splits or where a great little view is just of the side of the trail.

So because of that, the parking coordinates are posted, and I use them to do the same cache. I don’t get to have the same adventure as before because now the cache is almost a drive-up. The smiley earned in this example has less value to me than in the first example, IMO.

That's your choice you do not have to use anything. To be honest, you could use loc files or the like and only have the cache waypoints with no description. There would be a challenge. That would be your choice. I really do not see how having this option would cause you a half smilie when you felt entitled to a full smilie. It is your choice if you use the coords or suggestions....

Let me give you a prime example of where this would be a great feature. Here is SW PA, there is a cacher (Quest Master) who has some great caches hidden. This cache is the next one I want to do once I get the axle fixed on my Wrangler (there is some four wheeling areas that I have yet to explore).

GC331A - Scattered Remains

Other than the final cache, there are 6 other waypoints. Trailhead, turns in the trail, etc. I would rather have those loaded into my GPSr as opposed to entering those in... thats all... pretty simple really... and i would not think it would be a hard feature to add...

June 1, 2005

I've never used .loc files on their own, but I regularly download pocket queries. If what is being asked for is the option to upload .loc files with related waypoints to a cache page I'm all for it! Right now we can only keep jpgs on the hosted pages. Perhaps, partly for site security reasons, it could be an option for cache owners where they can fill out a form field with additional coordinates that gets automatically turned into a .loc file that is available for download on the cache page. As far as memory goes, those would be rather insignificant, especially compared to images.

These could be parking locations, points on a long trail, waypoints in a multi, or whatever. I'd support something like that. Something I haven't seen much of in the States, but I've seen a lot in Europe, are complicated multi's with lots of waypoints already listed on the cache page (i.e. go to these ten locations and get the information from virtual waypoints that lead you to the final cache). This feature would work well there too, so that you don't have to hand enter each one into the GPSr.

June 1, 2005

Why not just try using this web page?

24.7k · June 1, 2005

Please tell me what you think of this: Many caches have multiple waypoints associated with them. Would you like as part of the gpx download that these other waypoints are downloaded as well? This other waypoints I am thinking of are driving directions to the site, parking coords, maybe coords along the path to the final site....

Actually I agree. When people do take the time to provide parking coordinates or other information it would be nice to have the coordinates easily available. I'm not so sure this is easy to do though without changing the site a good bit.

June 1, 2005

Why not just try using this web page?

While that site would work- there is some time involved in running it... I was thinking adding it to part of the gpx download would not add much (if any) time to load...

June 1, 2005

Please tell me what you think of this: Many caches have multiple waypoints associated with them. Would you like as part of the gpx download that these other waypoints are downloaded as well? This other waypoints I am thinking of are driving directions to the site, parking coords, maybe coords along the path to the final site....

Actually I agree. When people do take the time to provide parking coordinates or other information it would be nice to have the coordinates easily available. I'm not so sure this is easy to do though without changing the site a good bit.

it may be an issue where the benefit does not outweigh the cost-- I know next to nothing about programing / website design / server capabilities...

i just thought it was worth the suggestion.

June 1, 2005

I'm partly of the opinion that if I had to drive to the cache in the first place there was already a problem with it

Wow, I hate being too busy to be able to read and respond to threads like this - I couldn't have said it better :grin:

The only parking coords I need is where I can put my bike when I look for the cache :rolleyes:

Happy Caching

Jeff

2.5k · June 1, 2005

In case you did not realize, my lazy reference was a joke. I enjoy few things more than getting outside and playing... I am far from a couch potato or a lazy person. My lazy reference was refering to entering waypoints.

Got it. Note that I didn't call you lazy or infer that you were a couch potato.

To be honest, you could use loc files or the like and only have the cache waypoints with no description.

I've been using GPX since it was invented. Requiring me to switch to loc would be changing the game for me. Here's an idea...try to get this information into the loc files and then you can download those :grin:

... and i would not think it would be a hard feature to add...

probably easier than having a way to clear caches from your watchlist in bulk...now that's hard

June 2, 2005

Sometimes finding the parking coordinates is half the challenge.
I see no reason why I should have to spoon-feed you the directions to my cache.

Perhaps caches should have a 3rd difficulty rating:

How hard is it to find the parking spot?

That'd make screening out the lame caches a lot easier.

Edited June 2, 2005 by jimmyreno

June 2, 2005

Many caches I've looked up have nearby parking or trailhead coordinates listed. I find these very useful, as I don't have an uplink for my lil' orange beastie, nor does it have autotracking. And looking at overhead photos doesn't always show where a good starting point is. While I don't mind a walk along forested trails, wandering for an hour or so just to find a way in to the forest is just frustrating.

I think having the option of downloading those extra coordinates would be a good thing, then the peopel who want them can have them, and those who don't, can pass them by.

2.4k · June 2, 2005

CW, yes, USAPhotomaps will open the .gpx file containing your pocket query directly. The program is donation-ware, meaning you send a donation of whatever you think it's worth, and Doug will send you a file to remove the one nag screen you get when you exit the program. If you don't pay, then you have to close one nag screen, but it's completely functional otherwise.

Do the Google satellite maps cover Europe? I haven't checked that.

Edit: Yes, but the scale is so large that it's worthless. It does have detailed street maps, though.

Edited June 2, 2005 by NightPilot

1.8k · June 2, 2005

I always include a parking coord data info if the approach seems iffy at all. For instance, there is a sensitive area, either private property or environmentally fragile or vunerable, (think swamps) that might be disturbed if someone chose a parking spot that was "closer" to the cache.

Sometimes I think THAT'S the lazy part: "I don't want to walk a step further than I want to" kind of mindbase.

Ya'll may have all those fun toys like Palms and such and oodles of computer time and programs, but I don't (gasp! not even a computer at home!) and a fair number of cachers don't. After driving over 10 miles looking for an obscure unmapped road once in order to access a cache, I appreciate parking coords.

2k · June 2, 2005

First off, I haven't read every post in this thread.

In alot of cases I also wish there were parking co-ordinates. I do have a self routing GPS. However as I do alot of travelling alot of times I've found myself on the wrong side of a river, in a residential area, etc. For example the cache my GPS is wanting to take me to may be 200 feet on the other side of the river, but the parking is actually 1/2 a mile on the other side of the river.

I always feel a little uneasy if I'm driving slowly through a residential area and hitting the same streets several times trying to find parking.

Edited June 2, 2005 by Eric K

June 2, 2005

It seems this thread has slightly migrated from my original posted idea / suggestion. I probably was not clear enough. My wife complains about that all the time…

I think the necessity for parking cords, or other cords for that matter, to be listed is best determined on a cache-by-cache basis and should be determined by the cache hider.

My suggestion was not to make it mandatory to have these coords included in the cache detail; rather, if there are coords, have them download as separate waypoints within gpx files…

Does that make sense? Or am I in left field?

Edited June 2, 2005 by CW Iams

2.7k · June 2, 2005

It seems this thread has slightly migrated from my original posted idea / suggestion. I probably was not clear enough. My wife complains about that all the time…

I think the necessity for parking cords, or other cords for that matter, to be listed is best determined on a cache-by-cache basis and should be determined by the cache hider.

My suggestion was not to make it mandatory to have these coords included in the cache detail; rather, if there are coords, have them download as separate waypoints within gpx files…

Does that make sense? Or am I in left field?

Perfect sense, and I agree wholeheartedly.

June 3, 2005

Depending on the modularity of the photo upload script (ie whether or not it was written well) it could be either a five minute job to add GPX/LOC upload functionality or it could take days. Not having access to the code, I don't know.

Either way, since someone has gone to the trouble of putting together that coordinate grabber, why not just use that? It's quick and it's simple. I think it'd be best to just use that and let Groundspeak concentrate on more urgent issues.

Parking Coords Suggestion

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