Ban Micro Caches

[+Hula Bum]

We didn't have many micros in our area for a long time, until some new cachers started and decided that it was a cheap way to hide. My personal favorites are the ones where you hike a mile in a park and find out it's a TINY tupperware, not technically micro, but not big enough for anything but pen and log. I've done a whopping 2 micros that were cool, one overlooking a surf spot and the other near Lee's gravesite (both couldn't have been anything but micro). I hate to block them from my list, just in case something good comes along, but 2 ain't great and one of those was 2 states away!

[+sept1c_tank]

I was going to refrain from posting to this topic again (my other post) but I think there is a falsely presumed mindset developing in this community.

 

Personally, I like micros, most of them. I can't tell you how many I've found, but I have found a lot, and a great variety, throughout the nine states and British Columbia where I've cached.

 

Many of them have been quite creative and challenging and fun. I understand that there are some urban areas that may have a high perecentage of less than desirable micros hidden, but I'd be willing to bet that the same areas experience similiar percentages with other types of caches.

 

It's a pity that some cachers have soured against micros. It's even more of a pity that some cachers have just chosen to ignore micros generally because of some unpleasant experiences. And the biggest pity of all is that many new to our hobby will perceive, from discussions like this, that micros are just evil and bad for the sport.

 

Micros are just like any other cache; some may be better or worse than others, and some may be totally awesome.

 

I encourage everyone to thoughtfully hide all their caches and I especially encourage hiders to be creative with micros.

 

Or, we could just offer a test.

Edited November 18, 2005 by sept1c_tank

[+Renegade Knight]

...While I haven't looked at any of your caches, I get a sense from discussions that you are a fan of entropy and urban decay. I submit even within those interests there is everything from the fascinating to the completely worthless....

Welcome to the forums. What I discuss is in part playing counterpoint to people who think that every cache that isn't breathtaking natural beauty is a waste of time. It's not the entire picture.

 

I enjoy knowing about all of the world we live in. Not just the blight and urban decay. There is a world of difference between being a fan of blight and decay and wanting to know it's there.

 

My muse is what decides what caches get placed. The last one I tried to place (someone got to the spot first) was at a little known waterfall where at some point there was a hot spring and the cliff is flowstone. My next cache is likely to be among the worst that anyone in this area has seen by any standard. It was inspired by a local debate. This spring I'll be climbing a mountain and putting one on top. I don't expect many finders. My muse may be a bit chaotic... When all is said and done the caches that I enjoy owning the most probably fit your standards. The ones that are inspired by forum debates over lame caches tend to get archived after awhile.

[Team Firebird]

I wish someone would just close this topic. It is very offensive to micro cache owners, and it does not respect other peoples opinions. I have said this before-IF YOU DONT LIKE MICROS, JUST IGNORE THEM!

[+JohnnyVegas]

I wish someone would just close this topic. It is very offensive to micro cache owners, and it does not respect other peoples opinions. I have said this before-IF YOU DONT LIKE MICROS, JUST IGNORE THEM!

It ia not that simple, besides, if the topic gets closed it will resurface again in time.

When people stop hidding micros in places that micros do not belong, such as in wooded areas were the vegataion gets trampled down. There will be people to complain about a poor cache placement. There lots of people that hide micros because they are to cheap to spend the money on hidding a large cache. A micro can be hidden for about 5 cents. A large cache is going to be more expensive to put together and maintain. And is also more challenging to hide. LLets no forget when someone hide a micro in an area that cause damage to the enviroment it can only create problems for geocaching in the future.

It is kind of hard to ignore micros when you have a large number of geocachers that are to lazy to put the effort into hidding a large cache. There are some very creative micros in areas in which a large cache would not work, but a film canister in a tree in the woods or in and enviromentaly sensitve are is not one of them.

 

The ellimination of new virtuals has contributed to micro spew to a degree.

[+Yellow Wingers]

This sounds like a great case for the market to decide. If the market (geocachers) don't want to look for micros, then they won't, and the people who supply the market (other geocachers) will stop placing them. After all, what fun is it to place a cache that no-one ever hunts?

 

Personally, I think there is a market for every type of cache. I'm pretty new to this whole thing, so I'm focusing more on the larger, easier to find, caches. But once I get better at this, I plan on taking a day or so and doing an urban micro hunt. I'd also like to try some of the more extreme caches.

 

In short, if you don't want to hunt a certain type of cache, then don't. There are plenty of the type you like to hunt out there.

[+JohnnyVegas]

You’re assuming that it is a fact that micro spew is a problem. Honestly, I don’t believe that.

I is around here.

 

It is my experience that micros are often difficult to find

What is so hard about finding a film can under a lamp post skirt, a hide a key on a traffic sign or under a pic nic table or on a guard rail

 

When you can support this statement with facts, I’ll listen

.

How hard can it be to put a little camo on a micro before it is hidden, gee that might take all of 15 minutes

 

When you leave your home, leave at your own risk.

In other words the person hidding the cache has no responsabilty to give the hide any thought

 

I beg your pardon.

Like I already said-film can under a lamp post skirt, a hide a key on a traffic sign or under a pic nic table or on a guard rail

Edited November 21, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[+sept1c_tank]

This is a cop out to the question re micro spew

 

You’re assuming that it is a fact that micro spew is a problem. Honestly, I don’t believe that.

 

Most micros are easy to find.

 

It is my experience that micros are often difficult to find.

 

Most geocachers that hide then are to lazy to make them hard to find.

 

When you can support this statement with facts, I’ll listen.

 

When you leave your home there is not way to knowif the micros that are on  your list are well thought out.

 

When you leave your home, leave at your own risk.

 

A well thought out micro is one thing, but most are not well though out, Most are an excuse to hide a cache.

 

I beg your pardon.

[+JohnnyVegas]

This is a cop out to the question re micro spew

 

You’re assuming that it is a fact that micro spew is a problem. Honestly, I don’t believe that.

 

Most micros are easy to find.

 

It is my experience that micros are often difficult to find.

 

Most geocachers that hide then are to lazy to make them hard to find.

 

When you can support this statement with facts, I’ll listen.

 

When you leave your home there is not way to knowif the micros that are on  your list are well thought out.

 

When you leave your home, leave at your own risk.

 

A well thought out micro is one thing, but most are not well though out, Most are an excuse to hide a cache.

 

I beg your pardon.

This is a cop out to the question re micro spew

 

You’re assuming that it is a fact that micro spew is a problem. Honestly, I don’t believe that.

 

Most micros are easy to find.

 

It is my experience that micros are often difficult to find.

 

What is so hard about finding a film can under a lamp post skirt, a hide a key on a stop sign or a power transformer, or a hide a key under a oic nic table.

Most geocachers that hide then are to lazy to make them hard to find.

 

When you can support this statement with facts, I’ll listen.

 

How hard would be to add a little camo to a micro before hidding it, not very, of cousre it would require putting a little effort into the cache.

 

When you leave your home there is not way to knowif the micros that are on  your list are well thought out.

 

When you leave your home, leave at your own risk.

 

That does not excuse the poor placement of a micro in an area that would a large cache

 

A well thought out micro is one thing, but most are not well though out, Most are an excuse to hide a cache.

 

I beg your pardon. 

What is so hard about finding a film can under a lamp post skirt, a hide a key on a stop sign or a power transformer, or a hide a key under a oic nic table.

[+sept1c_tank]

I own a couple of micros that give testimony to the difficulty (and fun) you seem to be missing with micros.

 

Read the logs.

 

And some of my favorite finds have been really creative micros. I'm sorry you and others are soured on micros, but remember, the center of your universe doesn't necessarily coincide with the center of mine.

 

But I will concede that perception is reality, so maybe it's best if you and the others just ignore micros.

[CoyoteRed]

...some of my favorite finds have been really creative micros.

Mine, too.

 

  ...so maybe it's best if you and the others just ignore micros.

But then I miss the opportunity to add another micro to my Top Ten.

 

[insert here my 500 word rant on it not being micros, but crappy caches in general that's the problem.]

[+edscott]

I is around here.

 

.....and I is way over here.. and there are several thousand micros in between. Some are good an some are not.. just like any other cache. I've found lame ammo boxes and great micros; good virtuals and others that weren't worth getting out of the car. It's all in the planning and creativity of the one that places the cache. The only way to have all great caches is to have someone that knows a good cache... per YOUR personal definition... personally visit and approve each and every one of them for you. Of course it is not practical, so you just have to sort them yourself and visit those that fit your criterion.

[+Team Perks]

Quotes from a random grouping of micro caches I own and/or have found, none of which are in what I would consider remarkably surroundings:

 

"Absolutely the best cache container we have ever seen! This is the coolest."

 

"Best cache I have ever seen."

 

"Caches like this one are remarkable, and I appreciated the mental challenge."

 

"This one will be on the top of my best cache list."

 

"This definitely ranks up there as one of the best hidden caches we've ever seen!"

 

"The best hide yet in this area."

 

I can honestly say I've rarely seen such positive logs with reference to regular-sized cache containers. (I'm not talking about great views, nice hikes, etc. Just the containers themselves.)

 

Sure, I've seen plenty of decent regular-sized containers, but there's rarely any challenge in those either. In fact, out of my own experience, I'd say an equal percentage of regular vs. micro caches have been bland, lame, or otherwise a waste of my time. If a cache gets me to an interesting spot, I'm happy. When a spot isn't the most exciting on its own, a creative micro can make up for that. Regular caches cost more to hide, but they certainly don't require any more a sense of creativity than a micro, and they can still be hidden behind a strip-mall dumpster (I've seen it) just as a micro can.

[SAWKS]

[+martinell]

I own a couple of micros that give testimony to the difficulty (and fun) you seem to be missing with micros.

 

And some of my favorite finds have been really creative micros. I'm sorry you and others are soured on micros, but remember, the center of your universe doesn't necessarily coincide with the center of mine.

 

My all time favorite find so far was a micro that I saw, discarded as the cache and spent the next 20-30 minutes searching every possibility only to finally re-examine the object in question and realized that the end came off and viola - another new cacher was addicted. THis was about my 5th or 6th find and first micro. I've had some fun ones since then, but nothing has topped that first micro. (And I've now hidden 2 traditional and 2 micros.)

 

I say, more *clever* micros!

[+Highpointer]

There are micro caches at all levels of quality, and many micro caches are high-quality caches. The one drawback of any micro cache is that there is no room for trading objects other than small items such as coins or pins, and there is no room for most travel bugs. However, a micro cache is appropropriate for hiding in locations where there is no room to safely hide a larger cache container.

 

There are many places, particularly in urban areas, where it is not appropriate to place a container such as an ammo can, because such a container of that size is too exposed and will soon become lost, stolen, or ransacked. Some examples of low-quality caches that I have observed in my home region are ammo cans or other full-sized containters that are in exposed locations, such as under shrubbery in a community park or greenbelt or situated right next to a road. Caches like these usually have a short life expectancy. Many such caches in community parks are found and removed by groundskeepers or kids playing in the area. Ammo cans really should be used for backcountry locations or other large areas of open space where they are less likely to be found accidentally by non-geocachers, and where they can provide long-lasting protection to the contents from the elements.

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

Edited November 22, 2005 by Highpointer

[+NotThePainter]

I just love seeing the argument that micros are cheaper. My mirco Cube Root of 39.304 cost $45 and the FTF prize was about $20. On the other hand, the last ammo type can I put out (Not The Muse) cost $1.99 plus about $10 worth of swag from the Dollar Store. (And grrr, the O-ring failed and it leaked!)

 

I think the real argument is that many micros are lame. That's ok, many caches are lame also. I've been to uninspired spots and found poorly hidden tupperware with soaking wet contents. I move on.

 

What I did for Cube Root was to specifically label it as "not lame." Of course that can be abused but if you'll read the logs, I don't think I was wrong.

 

Paul

[+dornole]

DON"T BAN--CHANGE THE CODING!!

 

If I could just search for regular caches only, that would be awesome!!! I like to go for the occasional micro myself but my kids want their swag. It takes a long time to sift through the micros and smalls to find ones they like. I'd love to search for "regulars" only. Even if there was just a symbol in the cache lists that indicated cache size (like the ones that indicate multi, virtual etc) that would be SO GREAT!! Like, green is regular and red is a micro or something. Then I woldn't have to open every single cache to find the ones we want.

 

PLEASE? PRETTY PLEASE??

[CoyoteRed]

I just love seeing the argument that micros are cheaper. My mirco Cube Root of 39.304 cost $45 and the FTF prize was about $20.

I don't think anyone said micros can't cost a significant amount.

 

When it is said micros are cheaper they are referring to many times the container is inexpensive, the log is inexpensive, and there is no trade items.

 

To prove my point, the next time you are in Walmart simply stop by the photo kiosk and ask about the empty film containers. I've been handed shopping bags so I could carry off as many as I wanted. Price for the containers that epitomizes micros? Zero.

 

Next you need a log. A single sheet of copy paper most people can find for nothing will yield about 6 logs. Most people have spare notebooks that are no longer being used. There is a whole host of avenues where one can get paper to create a log. Cost? Zero.

 

Anymore, there are no trinkets in micros. Zero cost. You implore for folks to bring their own pen. Zero cost.

 

Grand total cost? Zero.

 

I think everyone who has been caching for any length of time have found their share of these.

 

Of course, there is the regular-sized recyled peanutbutter jar, left over notebook for a logbook, and junk drawer trinkets. Sure a regular can be put together at no cost, but in my experience these are very few and far between.

 

It's just cheaper and easier to put out a micro than a regular sized.

 

By and large, the micro that cost a bit of money is not the one that gets labeled "lame."

[+charlinco]

I'm clearly new at this...but living in an area that is saturated with micros...

 

I think micros are great for people who cannot or don't want to go to the more remote locations. What about the elderly or disabled? Urban micros (such as the hundreds in the San Fernando Valley) have been a real teaching tool for me, and I've not had to go more than a few miles from my home or work.

 

However, after just 14 finds, I am getting a little tired of the film canisters. Not that they aren't a great container, though. There are three that stand out so far...one of them is a film cannister, but it was hidden in a unique way that it made me laugh. The other two, though...were very cleverly camo'd pieces that blended right into the urban environment. Both of those containers took some "from scratch" work and ingenuity. Frankly, I'd like to see more micros like those.

 

And, c'mon, where I live - it's the freaking Valley. If we wanted to restrict caches to the beautiful places, there would only be a handful of caches out there. Cache owners really need to be creative out here. I think they do the best they can.

 

Hunting micros simply takes a different skill set than some larger caches. So just as some people can't or won't do a 5-mile strenuous hike for that big ammo can, some won't want to scour the bushes near the local police station for that litle Altoids tin. Everyone has their own sense of adventure. And, isn't that what this is about?

 

I could just say we need to ban all 4 and 5 terrain caches because I have a bad ankle that makes steep hikes difficult. How annoying is it that I have to see those posted here reminding me of that sad accident in high school when I fell with my baritone horn on the wet grass during the footbal game? Oh, the humilation of being carried off the field in front of the whole school in my band uniform and shattered ankle - oh, the mental anguish. It's so annoying that some able-bodied people have to rub that in that they can make those hikes and I can't.

 

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[+Iowa Tom]

I own several micros. I knew that some people don’t like to hunt them for whatever reason but I never would have expected that someone would call for a ban or regulation of them. Wow!

 

I may ruffle some feathers by saying this but to me, a well camouflaged micro is a whole lot less like an “artifact” left in the woods than an ammo box or a Tupperware container. That’s just me I suppose. One of my big pet peeves is finding a white or brightly colored bottle or a whitish Tupperware container having no camouflage at all on it left in the open or easily discoverable. There is just something about that “plastic in the woods look” that gets me. Rustoleum makes camouflaged flat paint in five colors and it’s not that hard to make a cache much less obvious than what it looks like straight off the shelf.

 

I try to hide most of my micros either in some unique way or I use a micro to lead someone to a very special area. I make that clear in my description. What is more, I cannot afford to stock a lot of bigger containers anyway, as I own a lot of caches.

 

I’ve constructed some micro containers where there was nothing available that would exactly fit the bill. E.g. one of my micros had been pilfered twice so I decided to hide it in a new spot where nobody would find it accidentally. The spot is a small diameter blast hole drilled into a huge glacial erratic that was trimmed to widen a road. A short 1/2 inch dia copper tube with an 8 – 32 threaded rod down its middle and with a removable cap on the end through which the threaded rod screws worked very well. It’s even waterproof and is not seen by casual observers. To retrieve it one needs an iron wire or a rod to attract the magnet that’s glued to either end of the tube. One person did find that chewing gum worked in a pinch.

 

By the way, I find that film cans are terrible in that ALL leak: even the ones that I have that are 20 years old and have lids that you practically have to pry off with your teeth!

[+Team Perks]

And, c'mon, where I live - it's the freaking Valley. If we wanted to restrict caches to the beautiful places, there would only be a handful of caches out there.

Ain't that the truth.

[+Tharagleb]

I should add in defense of micros that one of my favorite caches is Emanemanem by Flask... er, Flashco. People have searched for hours and not found it, and others come in and find it in 5 minutes. Since I was FTF on this one I get a big kick out of reading the logs. It really isn't hidden in all that difficult of a location, but you do need to thoroughly examine the area, it is easy to overlook. Link to the cache is here.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Tharagleb

[+2trax]

Hey lets not ban anything , heres what i do i hide a real cool micro then put the coords to a ammo box in it but put it real close by (under two hundred feet )and give a real clear and easy clue to it . That way you get to try and find a cool and unique micro but get a crammed full ammo box to boot . I know it just a multi but you can get them both without having to go very far. And the ammo box is a freebee . Also micros are great for series caches along roads and what not , there easy to place and easy to find and usually they lead up to a big cache at the end and sometimes see ( Chess # 1 ) etc three full ammo cans yeah