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Ban Micro Caches


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I don't know about you, but I am TIRED of seeing all these micros. ESPECIALLY when a larger cache could have been placed. I live in Caldwell Texas. I did a search of all new caches one month old or less in a 100 mile radius. That BTW is 31,416 square miles. Many times the size of Rhode Island. There were 179 new caches. Only THREE were listed as large. HALF were micros. What is the use of carrying a travel bug, or swag if Half the new caches are micros? I would like to see Micros and Virtual caches severely limited if possible.

 

Don’t get me wrong Micos have their place. I just think that place should be severely limited, and proper. We have all found a micro cache on the edge of some woods or park where a large cache could have been placed with a little effort.

Edited by Mathatalist
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No.

 

And...yeah, that's about all I have to say. :o

 

Edit: Actually, after looking at your hidden caches, I do have more to say. Interesting that you complain about micros but 50% of your hides would be too small to fit your average travel bug in. Hmm...

Edited by Team Perks
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Its only going to get worse. The age of the regular cache is waning.

 

I understand your frustration, but a ban or any sort of control is not in the cards.

 

I know you're gonna get dozens of "If you don't like them, don't look for them" responses, but my answer to those people is that in some places, if you don't like 'em, you don't go geocaching because them's all there is.

Edited by briansnat
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Within 75 miles of the first cache that you hid -- the one in the 2-inch diameter pipe -- there are 491 caches that are either "regular" or "large" size.  Go find them and then report back to the group whether you had fun.

And those 491 caches are out of the 642 TOTAL caches within 75 miles. I don't think you'll run out of big caches anytime soon.

 

Note to the OP: By the way, I agree that one should hide the type of container most appropriate for the area.

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Like momma always said, "Opinions are like ________ They're everywhere."

 

With that said, I feel you should place as large a container as you can in an area. Why put an waterproof match container along a trail when there's plenty of cover for an ammo box?

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I don't see the point in banning or limiting something that you are not forced to be a part of. The existence of micros is not a mandate for you to find them.

 

I prefer larger caches, myself. But, that's because I spend a great deal of my time in the mountains or out in the desert. But, in urban areas, it can be pretty hard to hide an ammo box. (although, I'd like to see a 5-gallon bucket hidden in a parking lot) :o

 

It seems to me that once you get out of town, there are very few micros.

 

--Chino

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Don’t get me wrong Micos have their place. I just think that place should be severely limited, and proper. We have all found a micro cache on the edge of some woods or park where a large cache could have been placed with a little effort.

I suggest two things. First, if you hate the micro where a larger cache could be placed, write to the owner and suggest that they replace it with a larger container and explain why. Or state that in your log. Second, place some nice full size caches in the woods yourself to provide more positive examples in the area.

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So what you want is 176 less caches in your area, is that what your saying becasue it is what you WANT. Any cache is valid. If you place it they will comd. I agree with the hide the biggest cache possible but again some times a micro only do.

cheers

Edited by AtoZ
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I'll have to say that I've been cursing micro caches since moving to the Dallas area, as they seem to be the favorite style to hide down here. I can see why, as most caches here are in semi-urban areas that a regular cache would be hard to place and maintain. Regular caches seem rare here, and I love finding them as the micros can be frustrated.

Now, given that, I'd rather have a micro cache than no cache. Even if a larger cache could have been hidden there, a micro is still a cache.

I am frustrated with micros. I still plan on hunting them. When I find each one, it will be fun, when I don't I'll be ticked, but I won't call for a ban. When I place a cache, it will not be a micro. This will probably mean a lot more work for me, both in the planning and the maintenance phases, but I believe in placing what you'd like to find.

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Within 75 miles of the first cache that you hid -- the one in the 2-inch diameter pipe -- there are 491 caches that are either "regular" or "large" size.  Go find them and then report back to the group whether you had fun.

looks like the OP has been called out...

 

I could care less about trading swag - I enjoy the hunt. Having said that, it doesn't take much thought to hide a micro. I enjoy a clever hide regardless of the container size.

 

A micro in a hole in a tree in a forest full of trees with holes in them is not clever, it's fustrating... especially when the clue is - it's in a hole. :o

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Within 75 miles of the first cache that you hid -- the one in the 2-inch diameter pipe -- there are 491 caches that are either "regular" or "large" size.  Go find them and then report back to the group whether you had fun.

looks like the OP has been called out...

 

I could care less about trading swag - I enjoy the hunt. Having said that, it doesn't take much thought to hide a micro. I enjoy a clever hide regardless of the container size.

 

A micro in a hole in a tree in a forest full of trees with holes in them is not clever, it's fustrating... especially when the clue is - it's in a hole. :D

at least you get a hint. Thats my only true beef about a lot of the micros here, there is a million possilbe spots, and NO hint :P

 

Throw me a fricken bone here :o

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Um, I just got off the phone with Nashville and they really, really dislike your idea ... They muttered something about all the lonely lamposts. I don't know it sounded dreadful ... :D

 

edit - used a less harsh word, hehehe

Edited by clearpath
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I think one of the reasons is the expense involved in hiding a full size cache vs a micro. A typical full size cache will cost anywhere from 10.00 to 20.00 to place, a micro 2.00 or less on average.

 

This also leads back to the old thing of trade up or trade even. Usually you put out a nice cache and 30 days later it's filled with trash. Of course everyone you talk to always trade up. Makes you wonder where all the junk comes from. Although if you find a cache after it's been in place for 30 days or so, trading up from the junk in there could be a bottle cap.

 

With that being said. Micros can be more challenging than a full size cache. Let's face it after you have found a dozen or so full size caches you can spot the rest from 100 feet out.

 

Personally I like full size caches.

 

El Diablo

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Yes, yes, BAN MICROS!

 

Down with micros!

 

People who place micros are evil!

 

(oops, I've placed four of them....)

 

Nevermind!

 

Look, micros are relevant if properly planned and placed. Asking reviewers to get into the weeds and actually manage this is asking a bit much. The masses will vote with their finds. My micros get great reviews. They are relevant and have a purpose.

 

Recently, I've also encountered a flock of microsthat seem without purpose. Yet, I logged them. After a series, I also suggested to one owner "ammo can, please," and the next two placements by them were... ammo cans. There you have it, the insane and silly masses can self-regulate.

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There are micros then there are micros.

 

Some micros are tossed under a bush and called a cache, and thats ok with an aweful lot of people. Other micros are well planned out, or in very creative modified containers, and thats ok too. Sime micros are in microscopic containers that only hold a sliver of paper for a log, they may be evil...but they can rock.

 

About the only thing this diverse cache category have in common is that they rarely contain swag, or only very small swag items.

 

I'm assuming that the rant against them is due to the same emotions regarding poor quality trades left in caches.

 

I've found a few ammocans tossed under a sagebrush in basically bland locations, so I know they're out there....but I've yet to hear complaints about them, until the swag quality goes to carp.

Edited by BadAndy
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1. Your in Texas. Last Time I checked, Texas is a HUGE state. There are going to be more caches in Texas than in states east of the mississippi to begin with, and Micros therefore will follow suit.

 

2. No one is making you go find the micros.

 

3.I agree we have been over this before. Caching is not the trade items, but the find right? Then what is your argument? Go shopping already!

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Actually, there's a way for you to ban all micros. It's called the "ignore" feature. There are a number of caches in my area that, based on their description, do not appeal to me at all. Some are micros, some are regular. They're on my ignore list, so I don't have to look at them.

 

I do agree, however, that a cache should be as large as the area will accept. My first hide was a micro beacuse there was no way to place a regular cache there. One of the logs for that cache states that it "oozes creativity." [/brag]

 

I've only been at this for a few months, but I've seen good and not-so-good caches of all sizes. The problem lies with the hider, not the container. And so we vote either by not looking for certain caches, or by stating our true opinion in the log.

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Why does so many people want to make new rules lately? Also, why does it seem like most of the topics are rehashes of very recent threads? Just wondering.

 

Is this the thread where we can just complain about everything? I wasn't sure. The title is very deceptive.

Reading your comments one might think so.

 

Anyway, I'd be against a ban on micros. I'm no fan of them--I prefer traditional hides in ammo boxes or perhaps tupperware--but I can't see denying other people who do like micros their fun.

 

I guess if traditional regular sized caches are what you like, and there aren't enough in your area, the obvious solution is to get out there and hide some in your favorite spots before they get peppered with micros.

 

Of course if you find a micro hidden in a spot that could easily hide an ammo box, I guess you could bring an ammo box with you and put the micro inside of it before returning it to the hiding place. Instant upgrade. I bet the cache owner would think that was cool. **ducks as people start throwing things** Okay, obviously I'm kidding!!!

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Reading your comments one might think so. ...

Why does so many people want to make new rules lately?  :wub: Also, why does it seem like most of the topics are rehashes of very recent threads? Just wondering.  :wub: 

 

Is this the thread where we can just complain about everything?  I wasn't sure.  The title is very deceptive.  :D 

Better?

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I don't think banning micros is a good idea, but come to think of it, I don't see why micros aren't banned whereas virtuals are...

 

I definitely think reviewers should be tougher on micros though. For example, if someone tries to place a micro every two days, they should be told that they can't put out any more micros until they put out a different kind of cache.

Edited by Tidalflame
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Ah - micros. I love 'em and I hate 'em but mostly I hunt 'em.

 

I try to hide as large of a cache as I can in the areas I've choosen for my caches. I do have some micros hidden but I enjoy placing the larger caches in remote areas. No - I am not one of those "creative" hides type of cache owner for those remote caches. A quote from one of my cache pages sums up what I wanted to convy:

 

"That being said, enjoy the hike, the views and the fresh air and let the cache be secondary to your experience."

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I personally think that micros are a breath of fresh air, provided that they are well thought out and are in a great location. Some micros just get tossed somewhere in a bush or under some rocks, but there are others that are on magnets or velcroed to interesting and unique places. If people just thought out a creative and semi-original way to place micros, then the problem of the boring, monotinous mircos would be solved. :D

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If people just thought out a creative and semi-original way to place micros, then the problem of the boring, monotinous mircos would be solved. :D

I think if you replace the word micro with cache in the above quote, you get to the root of much of the angst among cachers and forum posters....

 

I don't care for the lame micro...there are some GREAT micros out there, so I don't want to see a ban or limit. I just wish there was an easy and effective way to nudge the micro-heavy and repetitive hiders to expand their horizon a bit.

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I personaly prefer larger caches, But I feel Micros have a place. I had no interest in finding a micro till one day I had no time to run out in the middle of nowhere to hunt for a cache. We went looking for this micro and when I found it I thought it was great. The way the container was made and where it was hidden. I think Micros are a great way for people with no means of transportation to get out and find a few caches around thier city or town. I have been caching for just under a year and have found 58 caches so far, 99% of them being regular to large cache containers. I have hidden two caches of my own, One out in the middle of nowwhere with a good size cache and one in a park in the city that is a micro cache. I also believe if a good size container will fit, Don't place a micro.

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I guess I should not be surprised most of you DO NOT want to ban micros. I still would like to severely limit their use. One poster hit the head on the nail. “Full size caches cost money.” I put out a full size ammo box with over $20 worth of new swag in it, only to have it stolen a month later. I bought a new full size box and put another $20+ of swag in it, and re-hid it in a different area. I know some people do not want to go to the expense or trouble.

 

Some of you people are too use to living in the city. Some of us prefer the country, with land all around and no neighbor 20’ out my bathroom window. Heck it is 250’ just to my 1+ acre pond. Before people start giving advice about filter this, or do not look for micros, it is a little hard when that is ALL THERE is.

 

Some of you will say “Mathatalist that is the price you pay for living in the country”. There is a little truth in what you say. My home is at N 30.70006 W 96.61748. Do a search. This is from the bottom of page 5. That is 100 caches. 50mi SE, 50miSW, 50.3NE, 50.4mi NE, 50.4 NE, 50.4mi NW, 50.4mi, NW. Look at the MILES friends. So yes, after I have driven 25 to 50 MILES to find a cache I would like it to be more than a match box with paper.

 

Mathatalist.

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Just because something is a problem in your own area, doesn't mean it's a universal problem.

 

In my neck of the woods (the middle of Los Angeles' urban sprawl), it's hard to find a good place for a micro, let alone a full-size cache. Thus, my choice is to place a micro or to not place a cache at all. If you are proposing to "severely limit" micros, then I am left with only the option to not hide a cache. I don't see how that accomplishes anything.

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I personaly prefer larger caches, But I feel Micros have a place. I had no interest in finding a micro till one day I had no time to run out in the middle of nowhere to hunt for a cache. We went looking for this micro and when I found it I thought it was great. The way the container was made and where it was hidden. I think Micros are a great way for people with no means of transportation to get out and find a few caches around thier city or town. I have been caching for just under a year and have found 58 caches so far, 99% of them being regular to large cache containers. I have hidden two caches of my own, One out in the middle of nowwhere with a good size cache and one in a park in the city that is a micro cache. I also believe if a good size container will fit, Don't place a micro.

I have a pocket query set up do do all trad, regular and large size caches for when I want to take my family. Maybe that would help you then your never know the micros are there.

cheers

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I have a pocket query set up do do all trad, regular and large size caches for when I want to take my family. Maybe that would help you then your never know the micros are there.

cheers

As you can see from my third sentence above, within 50 miles Radius there are 100 caches. As someone said a bad placed micro might be better than none at all. It is just that after a 25 mile ONE WAY drive to get to a cache I would like to be able to trade items. With 3 kids along it is more about the treasure hunt/trade then finding the cache. But you are correct. When picking which 50 mile direction I want to head to I try and see what type of container it is beforehand.

 

It is just frustrating when you drive that far and you get to a place with a micro and it has enough open woods to hide a TRASH CAN. This has happened more than once. Of course if you live in the middle of NY or LA you might never have that much free space.

 

Mathatalist

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Excerpt from a recent log on one of my caches:

 

"Can't say I'm a huge fan of the "hide a micro in the middle of the forest" genre of caches..."

 

to which I replied:

 

"Some would appreciate the "micro in the middle of the forest" for its low-impact appeal. To some the appeal is the challenge of the hunt and thrill of the find, not the size of the cache or the material goods inside."

 

Everyone is entitled to a unique perspective.

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Excerpt from a recent log on one of my caches:

 

"Can't say I'm a huge fan of the "hide a micro in the middle of the forest" genre of caches..."

 

to which I replied:

 

"Some would appreciate the "micro in the middle of the forest" for its low-impact appeal. To some the appeal is the challenge of the hunt and thrill of the find, not the size of the cache or the material goods inside."

 

Everyone is entitled to a unique perspective.

Micros in the forest are not low-impact! Cachers usually spend more time walking in circles looking for a cleverly concealed cache. This has a negative impact on the area.

 

Micros are best in urban settings

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Micros in the forest are not low-impact! Cachers usually spend more time walking in circles looking for a cleverly concealed cache. This has a negative impact on the area.

Since we're attempting the impossible and trying to speak absolutes about generalities, I will add that it's not the micro cache that is or isn't low-impact. Of course a micro would have a lower impact than a larger container in the same place. The cachers themselves may not practice low impact techniques. A clear statement in the cache description regarding a need to use low impact practices while hunting a cache would help. We will never achieve 100% success in anything we attempt, but we can strive for it.

 

Micros are best in urban settings

 

Attacking a certain type of cache in a certain type of location is a knee-jerk reaction. Encouraging low-impact cache hunting practices all around would be the better approach.

 

Like the age-old argument:

 

Knee-jerk: "Guns kill people." Common sense: "People kill people."

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Micros in the forest are not low-impact! Cachers usually spend more time walking in circles looking for a cleverly concealed cache. This has a negative impact on the area.

Since we're attempting the impossible and trying to speak absolutes about generalities, I will add that it's not the micro cache that is or isn't low-impact. Of course a micro would have a lower impact than a larger container in the same place. The cachers themselves may not practice low impact techniques. A clear statement in the cache description regarding a need to use low impact practices while hunting a cache would help. We will never achieve 100% success in anything we attempt, but we can strive for it.

 

Micros are best in urban settings

 

Attacking a certain type of cache in a certain type of location is a knee-jerk reaction. Encouraging low-impact cache hunting practices all around would be the better approach.

 

Like the age-old argument:

 

Knee-jerk: "Guns kill people." Common sense: "People kill people."

Boy did that point go over your head. :grin:

 

The container itself has zero impact on the area (negating the obvious issue of gravity). Think of it as a rock. Does a large rock have any more impact to an area than a small one? No! They both just sit there and do nothing. Zero impact.

 

Now, if you're out looking for a particular rock, are you going to spend more time hunting for a large rock or a small one? The time you spend in the area does have an impact. It takes much longer to search for a small rock than a large one. After all, there are only so many places a large rock could be hidden.

 

Micro caches are best placed where the environment can support someone spending some time searching. This would be somewhere with sidewalks, high-traffic grass (or other landscaping), such as in a park or city.

 

Sensitive environments should have easier to find (read: larger) containers to minimize impact on the area. This would describe more remote locations like the forest.

 

See the difference?

Edited by Team GPSaxophone
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Of course a micro would have a lower impact than a larger container in the same place. he cachers themselves may not practice low impact techniques

 

You're confusing cache footprint for impact. Any cache sitting in the woods has no more impact than a rock sitting there. Its the search that creates an impact and the longer and wider people search, the greater the impact, no matter how careful the searchers are.

 

Because micros are easier to conceal and can be hidden nearly anywhere, the search radius is wider and they take longer to find. If you want low impact, place a full sized cache in a spot that is obvious to geocachers,

Edited by briansnat
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Micros in the forest are not low-impact! Cachers usually spend more time walking in circles looking for a cleverly concealed cache. This has a negative impact on the area.

Since we're attempting the impossible and trying to speak absolutes about generalities, I will add that it's not the micro cache that is or isn't low-impact. Of course a micro would have a lower impact than a larger container in the same place. The cachers themselves may not practice low impact techniques. A clear statement in the cache description regarding a need to use low impact practices while hunting a cache would help. We will never achieve 100% success in anything we attempt, but we can strive for it.

 

Micros are best in urban settings

 

Attacking a certain type of cache in a certain type of location is a knee-jerk reaction. Encouraging low-impact cache hunting practices all around would be the better approach.

 

Like the age-old argument:

 

Knee-jerk: "Guns kill people." Common sense: "People kill people."

Boy did that point go over your head. :grin:

 

The container itself has zero impact on the area (negating the obvious issue of gravity). Think of it as a rock. Does a large rock have any more impact to an area than a small one? No! They both just sit there and do nothing. Zero impact.

 

Now, if you're out looking for a particular rock, are you going to spend more time hunting for a large rock or a small one? The time you spend in the area does have an impact. It takes much longer to search for a small rock than a large one. After all, there are only so many places a large rock could be hidden.

 

Micro caches are best placed where the environment can support someone spending some time searching. This would be somewhere with sidewalks, high-traffic grass (or other landscaping), such as in a park or city.

 

Sensitive environments should have easier to find (read: larger) containers to minimize impact on the area. This would describe more remote locations like the forest.

 

See the difference?

There are certainly examples of micros in the woods where cachers trample over everything looking for a needle in the haystack. But my general experience is the opposite. Ammo can hidden in a bush - pushing aside braches of every bush in the area looking for it, perhaps even bushwhacking a little further off trail because the hider may have hid it there to prevent it from being accidently found. Micro - stopping, looking around, using my geosense to spot the likely hiding spot: the crook of that tree, the hole in the rock, that pile of rock there. Usually much less impact than the ammo can.

Edited by tozainamboku
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There are certainly examples of micros in the woods where cachers trample over everything looking for a needle in the haystack. But my general experience is the opposite. Ammo can hidden in a bush - pushing aside braches of every bush in the area looking for it, perhaps even bushwhacking a little further off trail because the hider may have hid it there to prevent it from being accidently found. Micro - stopping, looking around, using my geosense to spot the likely hiding spot: the crook of that tree, the hole in the rock, that pile of rock there. Usually much less impact than the ammo can.

So people don't use their geosense to find ammo cans? C'mon, that PPS (pile of parallel sticks) or URP (unnatural rock pile) kinda gives it away, doesn't it?

 

Now, where could that micro be? Maybe the scrap of tree bark is glued to it. No? How about under this rock? That rock? The other 157 rocks in the area? The longer I stand here and look, the more impact I'm having on the area. And yes, I push aside tree branches looking for micros too.

 

Larger caches have much less impact on the area than microcaches

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