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Turn Off Numbers Option


sbukosky

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I've about had it with numbers. I'm willing to opt out of having my number of finds shown on the site. However, I enjoy posting my logs and often post what I hope are interesting comments about the hunt. I know of at least two teams that no longer log because of their reaction to how the numbers hunt has begun to spoil geocaching. They no longer hide caches either because of their dismay of people flooding areas with garbage caches only to boost their numbers and friends numbers. Ok. If some are so addicted to numbers, keep them. But I'd like to see an option to opt out of the madness.

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Log notes. Then put the cache on your ignore list. That's the way to solve the issue under the present system.

 

I'm glad you realize the important of online logs, and while you may not like numbers the are important for some purposes. Where you to log a skunk on one of my caches and I know it's one that an experienced cacher should find while a newbie may not, it helps me know when to go check on the cache.

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...They no longer hide caches either because of their dismay of people flooding areas with garbage caches...

That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. The caching world is worse off for their protest. Do you know how nice it is to find a decent cache after a string of 32 micros hidden where you could hide a truck?

 

I have never found a cache hidden to boost numbers. I have found a lot of caches hidden in enthusiasm for the game with little thought as to placement because they are excited to get a cache placed. Blaming numbers is a cheap excuse. However some people get so worked up over numbers it clouds their thinking. Normaly it's the anti numbers crowd. Ironic.

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I've about had it with numbers.  I'm willing to opt out of having my number of finds shown on the site.  However, I enjoy posting my logs and often post what I hope are interesting comments about the hunt.  I know of at least two teams that no longer log because of their reaction to how the numbers hunt has begun to spoil geocaching. They no longer hide caches either because of their dismay of people flooding areas with garbage caches only to boost their numbers and friends numbers.  Ok. If some are so addicted to numbers, keep them.  But I'd like to see an option to opt out of the madness.

Ive asked for this feature a couple times and it hasnt exactly been embraced by TPTB.

Edited by WH
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I have never found a cache hidden to boost numbers.

Actually, there is a sub-set that hides "gifts." These gifts many times are not for the pleasure of the location or even the hunt. It is a statement of "here is another increment to your count."

 

In fact, I'm quite surprised you would make this statement. Power trails come to mind right off the bat, as well. What other reason would there be to place a series when a multi be perfectly workable other than to boost the find count? The actual hunts would be the same. If the multi was not completed you can still post a note. Don't want to return to finish the multi, ignore it.

 

Additionally, not only would I opt to hide my own numbers, I'd also opt to have my caches not included in someone else's numbers.

Edited by CoyoteRed
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The numbers don't bug me...what BUGS me is having a cache on my GPS screen that I haven't found, knowing that it is out there, taunting me, daring me to come and find it. I have tried to resist some caches, because I knew the hider; I knew it was just a film container with a rolled up paper and a short pencil, and i didn't want to dignify it with any searching effort. But as the tides and the ocean waves, it inevitability overpowers me, and I succumb to it's lure. The siren song of that worthless, uninteresting, prizeless piece of refuse draws me in until I seek, I find, and I log. I sigh as I walk away, and that cache becomes just another number in my ever climbing find count. I have to admit, this addiction has resulted a decreasing percentage of finds actually being INTERESTING ones, indeed, last year, when I was around 600, I struggled as I searched my find list to select 50 that would qualify for a "fabulous 50" list. I suppose that is part of the draw...you really seldom do know what you are going to find, and curiosity overwhelms. I always HOPE that if someone thought the location was worthy of inviting others to come and experience it, at least it will be a place worth visiting, but that, too, has become less the case. At least there is always the camaraderie. When all else fails, we get to spend time with other people.

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The numbers don't bug me...what BUGS me is having a cache on my GPS screen that I haven't found, knowing that it is out there, taunting me, daring me to come and find it.

I understand exactly what you are saying, but recently I have found the Ignore List helps to hide those irritating caches so they don't taunt me more than once :lol:

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About numbers:

 

I'm not against anything but bad caches. Although I believe you cannot compare any two cachers' numbers unless they are over the same caches and same attempts, I think you certainly can compare 5 vs. 50 vs. 100 vs 1000 and get some indication of the experience a cacher has. So it isn't about the numbers, but a number can be useful.

 

Someone with hundreds and hundreds of finds can't be just in it for the numbers. There is no way this person is doing this just to have a number next to their name. This person is going out to find caches A LOT. They may be competing with a local friend or something, but I don't think any cacher gets anything out of the number by itself. The number is shorthand for some indication of how much you do this activity. There are people who post finds when they didn't find or lie about finding one etc, but no one cares - because it isn't about the numbers, except everyone keeps talking about numbers.

 

when I was around 600, I struggled as I searched my find list to select 50 that would qualify for a "fabulous 50" list.

 

Let's say an average cache takes you under an hour. That's like a meal - like dinner. If you've eaten out 600 times, can you pick 50 which were fabulous? Can you even pick 50 restaurants? You can probably pick 50 restaurants worth eating at, and I bet you can pick 50 caches to recommend to other people. I think sometimes we're asking a little too much. If it's about the quality and you do too many caches, your quality percentage is going to drop, and there's nothing you can do about it. Other people can place more caches, but the average cache they place will probably not raise your average quality level.

 

About power trails:

 

Power trails come to mind right off the bat, as well.  What other reason would there be to place a series when a multi be perfectly workable other than to boost the find count?  The actual hunts would be the same.  If the multi was not completed you can still post a note.  Don't want to return to finish the multi, ignore it.

 

If your definition of a power trail is a planned trail of caches with no thought as to placement but simply to boost numbers, then, by definition, you are correct - they have no advantages.

 

If your definition of a power trail is a path where you can find a lot of caches at short intervals (whether planned and laid that way or through natural evolution), then power trails built of single caches as opposed to multis do have some advantages besides numbers:

 

It is clear to cache hiders that the area is no longer available - this is not clear with multis which could lead to confusion amongst cache hiders and reviewers.

 

Multi-caches have to be limited in number of caches in the face of cache maintenance. Even a four or five-leg multi can result in a lot of finder repeat visits and frustration if unforeseen circumstances mean that a leg is more easily compromised than you thought during recon and placement. A cache which does have problems like this won't be visited much (many people already shun multis when visiting an area they are unfamiliar with because of the completion problem). Alternatively, you can make legs "virtual" to improve the maintenance factor - but this isn't the same experience as hunting a physical.

 

It allows the owner to archive a cache on the trail and let someone else take the area over without harming other good cache placements or breaking a multi.

 

Cache maintenance is a lot of work, and if someone wants to place a power trail and keep it up, that's fine. If they don't keep it up, the caches will get archived anyway. At least with individual caches, the trail will degrade naturally and gracefully if the owner can't keep it up.

 

If a single cache needs to be moved, only the one cache location needs to be updated. If a stage of a multi needs to be moved, then the leg before it needs to be updated and the person in the middle of completing the cache will have to go back to the previous stage.

 

I would gladly do either kind of power trail. I just think that a power trail of individual caches is more likely to last and evolve and if necessary degrade more gracefully over time.

 

Having said all this, I think it really varies by your location, because from talking to all the New Orleans cachers at my last event cache, I don't think we are having the issues people commonly complain about here - maybe we will, maybe we won't. I think many times that's why people here have so many disagreements, because there is a difference caching in different places around the world, and there is not a single opinion or a single attitude about things like cache density. We pretty much only have what I would consider natural power trails (I don't know how many caches are needed to define a power trail - 20, 50?) of areas with a dozen or more caches here in New Orleans - they've grown up over the years - some are by single hiders, some by several hiders, but every placement had thought and was not just about numbers.

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Even if someone else is gun-ho about bumping up thier number of finds, so what? This isn't a competition. If you have 5, and someone else has 1000, big deal? If I'm out, finding caches it doesn't matter how many finds I have. If someone hunts for cheap, easy, poorly hidden caches just to bump up thier numbers, what do I care? I am proud of my finds, I don't have 1000, but I've enjoyed each and every one. That's what's important. And hey, if someone enjoys finding cheap, easy, poorly hidden caches, so what. If they are enjoying the game, good for them. Let like minded people find their caches, and I will find and hide worthwhile caches of my own.

Edited by twjolson
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I have never found a cache hidden to boost numbers.

Actually, there is a sub-set that hides "gifts." These gifts many times are not for the pleasure of the location or even the hunt. It is a statement of "here is another increment to your count."

 

In fact, I'm quite surprised you would make this statement. Power trails come to mind right off the bat, as well. What other reason would there be to place a series when a multi be perfectly workable other than to boost the find count? The actual hunts would be the same. If the multi was not completed you can still post a note. Don't want to return to finish the multi, ignore it....

I made the statement because it's true insofar as my own geocaching experience.

 

Since I don't like multies and have more than one that was found part way through and I've never gotten back to before it was archived, no thank you. I'd rather walk a power trail, which as it happens we don't have. The closest I've seen the caches were 0.3 apart and I ran out of daylight and had to turn around and go back. Good thing it wasn't a lame multi, Odds are I won't get back to it.

 

As for your own cache. If you make it so it didn't count for me, then why the heck would I bother? Your cache experience would have to be so far above the rest of the pack (and that's hard to do for anyone) that it would be worth the visit in its own right. It's an interesting concept though.

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Why eliminate the numbers? We have this discussion all the time and it's just silly. Most folks seem to like the numbers. It's not necessarily a contest against others but against one's self. At least for me it is. I can obviously keep this information offline (in GSAK in my case) but what's the difference. I don't think eliminating the numbers would do much other then eliminate congratulatory threads in the forums.

 

In fact, we've had at least 1 Event related to numbers commemorating StayFloopy's 3000th Find which is an unimaginable achievement to me.

 

So if it bothers you, don't look. I don't think it's so "in your face" that you can't avoid it. In fact, with using GSAK, I'm not doing much at all on the web site itself so I don't see my stats unless I specifically go to that page for some reason.

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I know of at least two teams that no longer log because of their reaction to how the numbers hunt has begun to spoil geocaching. They no longer hide caches either because of their dismay of people flooding areas with garbage caches only to boost their numbers and friends numbers.

Definitely not an issue I'm aware of in our area. Not every cache is a "10" quality cache, but we don't have dumpy caches as you must have in your area.

 

My guess is that the tremendous quality caches in our area that have been placed by folks that want to make the sport/hobby enjoyable and not about numbers is what others emulate. Maybe if those that have now stopped place high quality caches, the folks that are coming into this will emulate them and not the crappy ones you have in your area.

 

Lead by example, not by putting your head in the sand.

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Looks like some people don't comprehend what I'm saying. OPT OUT as to have the option not to show my numbers. However, I admit to being interested in the seeing the ratio of finds/hides versus number of posts on this board! This is one of my reasons. Some people obsese with it to the point other things in life suffer. Sometimes integrity is one of them. So, if having a zillion finds or a zillion and one posts here makes you feel like a superior person, my proposal doesn't threaten that other than you just may not know if someone opting out has more finds than you. Just that possibility seems to eat at some people.

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In every group of people, there are some who think they can do it better than the best, and I don't mean to imply that they're arrogant. They honestly think they've made a unique, tough hide. Some of these people are beginners, some aren't.

 

You have to remember that geocaching is for everyone. Families place hides as a team, meaning they have only one user name. If a poorly-done hide turned out to belong to a four-year old who was just learning to love this game, would you not want them to be able to see the statistics of how many people had found their cache?

 

I say keep the numbers. After all, you're really only competing with yourself.

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:o I asked geocaching.com to enable an OPTION to hide totals. Read the message people. I didn't ask if numbers were sacred to you. If you are going to comment, it should be either as a message in agreement or why giving someone the choice of hiding their numbers is a bad thing. Edited by sbukosky
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:o  I asked geocaching.com to enable an OPTION to hide totals.  Read the message people.  I didn't ask if numbers were sacred to you.  If you are going to comment, it should be either as a message in agreement or why giving someone the choice of hiding their numbers is a bad thing.

Okay. It's a bad thing because programming time is limited and I'd rather see it devoted to something else. I'm afraid I don't find anti-numbers snobbery any more impressive than numbers snobbery.

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And what? Take away the supreme pleasure that I am obtaining by kicking my son's caching rear-end from here to El Paso? You wouldn't deprive me of such pleasure.............would you? :o Life is sweet! :D I am pretty, what can I say, eh?

Edited by Team cotati697
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I suggested this in another thread.

 

Instead of a number system, have a level system. Simular to what ebay does with their reputation stars.

 

Everyone would have a signal icon where the number is now. Her antenna would change to a different color for each 10 caches found.

 

0-9 cahces found = yellow antenna

10-19 caches found = red antenna

20-29 caches found = blue antenna

etc.

 

Then lightning bolts could be added after 100 finds and the color would change for each 100 caches found up to 999.

 

100-199 caches found = yellow antenna with lightning bolts comming from antenna

200-299 caches found = red antenna with lightning bolts comming from antenna

300-399 caches found = blue antenna with lightning bolts comming from antenna

etc.

 

I don't have an idea for a 1000 find icon.

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If you are going to comment, it should be either as a message in agreement or why giving someone the choice of hiding their numbers is a bad thing.

Very well then. Truthfully, your numbers DO attest (in some general fashion) to your experience, which comes in very useful as a cache owner when deciding whether or not to check on a cache after you log a DNF.

 

This has already been pointed out, but I'll re-state it as my main reason for wanting to see your find count. If I can't judge your caching experience, how am I to know whether you're a beginner who DNF'd on my cache because they're still learning the ropes, or an experienced cacher who should have been able to spot my cache with no problem? Without knowing your find count, I have nothing upon which to determine the urgency of a maintenance visit to the cache you couldn't find.

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What about a compromise.

 

Remove find counts from the cache pages but keep them in the profiles. If I log a DNF on a cache of yours and you want to know how experienced I am, you can always go look at my profile.

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What about a compromise.

 

Remove find counts from the cache pages but keep them in the profiles. If I log a DNF on a cache of yours and you want to know how experienced I am, you can always go look at my profile.

This was done once. The resulting uproar (of sorts) saw them replaced but only updated when the cache page was updated. This works well since it saves server workload but lets the cache owner see the find information at the time of the find or DNF which is when it's needed by the cache owner to factor into their decision to maintain the cache, or to tweak their ratings and other things.

 

When it comes to this type of information I don't care that it's WH who has 2394873987 finds so much that if you did have that many finds you should of seen my style hide before...

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Even if someone else is gun-ho about bumping up thier number of finds, so what? This isn't a competition. If you have 5, and someone else has 1000, big deal? If I'm out, finding caches it doesn't matter how many finds I have. If someone hunts for cheap, easy, poorly hidden caches just to bump up thier numbers, what do I care? I am proud of my finds, I don't have 1000, but I've enjoyed each and every one. That's what's important. And hey, if someone enjoys finding cheap, easy, poorly hidden caches, so what. If they are enjoying the game, good for them. Let like minded people find their caches, and I will find and hide worthwhile caches of my own.

I like this post. To each his own bliss. I pass by a lot of caches I have no interest in. Others may and do go for them. Some hate numbers, others don't. I kinda like seeing them but it IS just a tally to me. An option to hide your own numbers is fine by me, but let others keep theirs posted. Yes, it's a matter of pride. So why denigh a person their sense of pride?

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I've about had it with numbers. I'm willing to opt out of having my number of finds shown on the site. However, I enjoy posting my logs and often post what I hope are interesting comments about the hunt. I know of at least two teams that no longer log because of their reaction to how the numbers hunt has begun to spoil geocaching. They no longer hide caches either because of their dismay of people flooding areas with garbage caches only to boost their numbers and friends numbers. Ok. If some are so addicted to numbers, keep them. But I'd like to see an option to opt out of the madness.

An option to not show your own numbers will do nothing to prevent others from engaging in the bahavior you describe, and you will never get TPTB to turn off numbers for everyone.

 

Different strokes for different folks--gotta deal with it.

 

It's not about the numbers for me either, but I have no objection to seeing my smiley count. If other people want to feel numerically superior, that's fine by me. My granddaughter found a baby turtle on the trail yesterday, and caught a toad. We also saw a giant anthill. That's all worth about 200 smileys to me. :o

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:lol: I asked geocaching.com to enable an OPTION to hide totals. Read the message people.

And you also asked them to "stop recording the number of finds". Read your own sub-title of your post people.

 

I didn't ask if numbers were sacred to you.  If you are going to comment, it should be either as a message in agreement or why giving someone the choice of hiding their numbers is a bad thing.

 

It's a bad thing. The second poster gave you a solution to your issue: Log your finds as notes and use the ignore list.

 

I seriously doubt you or WH will remove your Finds and change them to Notes, but I'll bet this isn't the last we hear from either of you on how bad Find counts are.

 

I love the numbers. I like mine, and I like looking at others. I vote that they stay the same.

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i liketo know when a DNF is posted if it is a user with 10 or 100 or 1000 finds. generally that is a good indicator of if i should even bother looking for a cache or giving it a go, if a new user had the DNF i will still look usually, if it is a 1000 find user i usually will if on a trip just pass it by.

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:rolleyes:  I asked geocaching.com to enable an OPTION to hide totals.  Read the message people.  I didn't ask if numbers were sacred to you.  If you are going to comment, it should be either as a message in agreement or why giving someone the choice of hiding their numbers is a bad thing.

Okay. It's a bad thing because programming time is limited and I'd rather see it devoted to something else. I'm afraid I don't find anti-numbers snobbery any more impressive than numbers snobbery.

I couldn't agree more. The cost (work hours, $$, and resources lost from other upgrades), far out-weighs any gain that a very few anomolous people would experience. This is especially true considering that all we're talking about is something so trivial as a tally.

 

There has to be bigger fish to fry. :grin:

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As for your own cache. If you make it so it didn't count for me, then why the heck would I bother? Your cache experience would have to be so far above the rest of the pack (and that's hard to do for anyone) that it would be worth the visit in its own right.

...well, if you gotta ask...

 

:grin:

 

You know I've harped on many things in the past and one of them is junk caches.

 

Now, we can ignore junk caches with the nifty new ignore feature. Before, in order to get a junk cache off my radar I had to log it. In order to log it, I had to find it. I rewarded the hider of a junk cache with a find. No more.

 

Flip that. Some cachers will find anything. I dare say, some would hunt a scrap of paper thrown into a field if it'd give them a smilie.

 

So, if my cache didn't give them a smilie, then they would less likely hunt it leaving my cache for those who appreciate the hunt of the cache itself. It would be for those who wonder, "What is Sissy-n-CR going to show us, or make us do, next?"

 

Those would be the people you know are in it for the pure pleasure of the hunt.

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[Q...It would be for those who wonder, "What is Sissy-n-CR going to show us, or make us do, next?"

 

Those would be the people you know are in it for the pure pleasure of the hunt.

Ah... A destination cache.

 

And yet what of the online log? The desire to put your experience in writing, and the realization that after logging so many caches that the snippets of stories you have told and the adventures you have had are like a journal and that perhaps your progeny might want to read it, or maybe they never will but should have the option? There is no way to log a cache in a way that can be viewed by others that doesn't count somehow to someone even if it's just a note.

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There's the rub. Anyone can mentally calculate their numbers. The folks that don't log online or log notes to hide their numbers have the option to mentally keep track. I wonder how many do, though.

 

I don't keep track of the number of games I bowl, the number of fish I catch, miles I drive, or the number of times I've ridden my favorite trail. The stand out times, well, stand out. The mediocre ones don't. You don't know when a stand out experience will stand out. It's kind of like fishing. You gotta get a lot bait wet before you get something worth while. But the whole time, you're fishing.

 

It's the automated tally of finds that drive some people. Me, I'd rather the numbers not be part of the reason someone finds my caches.

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... I don't keep track of the number of ... miles I drive ...

 

It's the automated tally of finds that drive some people.  Me, I'd rather the numbers not be part of the reason someone finds my caches.

Forgive me for spindling your post, but it is a good example of the multiple uses that the numbers have. I'm like you, I'm no longer driven by the number of finds that I have. I'm certainly not affected by the number of finds that anyone else has. But that doesn't meen that these numbers are not useful.

 

You brought up a good analogy. Even though you are not driven by the number of miles you drive (hey, nice pun!), you still keep your odometer around because this information is useful to you.

Edited by sbell111
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