Yet Another Newbie Equipment Question

[+Tagamet]

Hi,

I've read quite a bit, and after assimilating a lot of the technospeak on features, I'd like to get into a "mid level" portable unit for geocaching that will be inexpensive enough to get INTO the hobby, but not so "plain vanillla" that I'll need to spend again to upgrade almost immediately. If 375 to 450 in my entry level max budget, what do people here like most. I'll likely get a "previously loved" unit through ebay, so the price I pay will likely be significantly less than a new unit. For example, right now there are Garmin color V, magellan color unit, and meridian units each for about $150 on ebay. If it was a huge step up in features, I might be able to swing one of the voice direction units. Are they significantly better?

Advice please?

TIA,

Tagamet

[+Tidalflame]

It depends on what you want, really. I'm a tech geek who's spent hundreds of dollars on PDAs just to get the latest features, and yet I'm still happy with my old Garmin eTrex. I suppose I'll upgrade eventually, but with GPS units, most of the latest "features" are just bells and whistles that you don't need for anything in particular.

[+miles58]

I've had three other older Garmins.

 

I currently have two Lowrances, an iFinder pro I bought on the forum here, for $125 and an iFinder hunt I paid $300 for. I use the Map Create 6.2 software and 256 meg SD chips in the units. I have a magnet mount antenna the sits on my dash against the windshield with a little 1.5" x 5" piech of sheet metal for a ground plane.

 

Receptiion on both units is excellent without the external antenna (typical is 40-50 feet when the unit is velcroed onto the dash for navigation, and 14-24 feet with the antenna. Most of the time I walk directly to the cache. The units are so fast there is only slingshot effect above 40MPH, so there is no real time at the cache letting the unit "settle". If the coordinates for the cache are dead on (that actually happens about 40% of the time or less) if either unit tells me I am at the cache if I put out my arms and turn a circle the cache is inside the circle described by my finger tips.

 

Both units are excellent for car navigation when velcroed to the dash, the screens are big and readable enough. The smaller Lowrances are less so. The street detail from Map Create 6.2 is as good as you can get. I am missing the very newest residential streets, but that's it.

 

I wish the iFinder pro was waterproof. I don't need all the extras with the iFinder hunt. I keep a map of Minnesota and Wisconsin in each unit. The map has full detail down to the smallest roads for both entire states, plus it overlaps the Dakotas, Iowa, Michigan and Ontario.

 

Having had three Garmins and tried a couple Magellans, I like these better, and use them a lot more. The smaller iFinder GO and GO2 are really competetive with the baic mapping Garmns/Magellans, but IMO they're crippled by comparison to the bigger IFinder pro and above. The detailed maps and the ability to use that external antenna under bad conditions are well worth the extra money.

[+IVxIV]

Hi & welcome to the sport

 

WOW I wish I had $375-450 as an "entry level budget" geez you can pretty much move to the front of the line with that sort of limit seriously you can buy practically any current consumer model GPSr for that amount of dough.

 

I'm a huge Lowrance fan too, and agree with all that miles58 had mentioned. On top of all that though, you might like to check out the Lowrance iWay 100m as well especially if car navigation (autorouting) is something you're interested in too. The iWay 100M is the ONLY consumer GPS on the market that incorporates voice prompted navigation, so it will "tell you" in words, when to turn left/right/etc while driving to a destination. This is a huge safety feature, you won't need to be looking away from the road and down to a GPS screen to see your next turn. On top of that the unit does everything else a highend GPS can do, and is rugged for outdoor use.

 

Also, do you already have a PDA? Either a Palm or PPC based PDA makes Geocaching much more enjoyable by allowing you the option of "paperless caching". Ebay again is a great place to seek one out for a decent low price. No consumer grade PDA is very rugged, and are easily broken if dropped or get water splashed on them. So spend minimal $'s on one, you won't cry as loud if/when it gets damaged in the field

Edited May 29, 2005 by IVxIV

[+Team Cotati]

If you have that size budget, why go with a used unit? Just find the Garmin that suits your needs for the foreseeable future and go for it. Overkill is easy.

[+Tagamet]

Hi & welcome to the sport

 

WOW I wish I had $375-450 as an "entry level budget" geez you can pretty much move to the front of the line with that sort of limit seriously you can buy practically any current consumer model GPSr for that amount of dough.

 

I'm a huge Lowrance fan too, and agree with all that miles58 had mentioned. On top of all that though, you might like to check out the Lowrance iWay 100m as well especially if car navigation (autorouting) is something you're interested in too. The iWay 100M is the ONLY consumer GPS on the market that incorporates voice prompted navigation, so it will "tell you" in words, when to turn left/right/etc while driving to a destination. This is a huge safety feature, you won't need to be looking away from the road and down to a GPS screen to see your next turn. On top of that the unit does everything else a highend GPS can do, and is rugged for outdoor use.

 

Also, do you already have a PDA? Either a Palm or PPC based PDA makes Geocaching much more enjoyable by allowing you the option of "paperless caching". Ebay again is a great place to seek one out for a decent low price. No consumer grade PDA is very rugged, and are easily broken if dropped or get water splashed on them. So spend minimal $'s on one, you won't cry as loud if/when it gets damaged in the field

Wow, thanks for all the guidance! BTW, I SAVE my money until I can start a hobby with reasonably good equipment, so I don't end up buying the next level up within a year. In the long run, it's cheaper (and boy am I cheap).

Reference was made to "paperless caching". Is there software for PDA's that somehow assists in keeping track? I just found out how poorly a nice Palm Tungsten C reacts to being dropped from a shirt pocket into 40 gallons of saltwater (not too well). Fortunately, my boss is willing to replace it (she's up for sainthood. Yes, I told her what I did to it).

As with any new hobby, I need to read a much more about all this, but it sounds like a LOT of fun. Is there a magazine, or book that people recommend? I'll also check out the forum with used equipment and ebay. If it's anything like reefkeeping, there's always someone wanting to "upgrade" to a better system.

Thanks again,

Tagamet

[+Tagamet]

If you have that size budget, why go with a used unit? Just find the Garmin that suits your needs for the foreseeable future and go for it. Overkill is easy.

Are you saying that you see the Garmins as better than Lowrance? I'm not being smart, I simply don't know enough about ANY of the brands. The consensus seemed to be the Lowrance were as good (if not better than) as the Garmen.

I'd value your opinion.

TIA,

Tagamet

[+sbell111]

If you are looking for a great unit for a mid-range budget, Best Buy has Garmin GPS Vs on clearance for $199.

[+Tagamet]

If you are looking for a great unit for a mid-range budget, Best Buy has Garmin GPS Vs on clearance for $199.

Wow, I was just heading to Best Buy (for something else). This might be Karma (lol). That's a great price! Can anyone chime in with a good reason to Not jump at a Garmin GPS V? Does it use SD cards? I like expandable memory.

Thanks,

Tagamet

Edited May 29, 2005 by Tagamet

[+IVxIV]

I do have respect for the Garmin V it was a very technologically advanced and powerful unit,,, years ago when it was new.

 

If you're on a very tight budget then I would say the V is a good model if you want a GPSr that can autoroute etc.. But if you can afford more, I would suggest a newer model. The V has only about 19mb of onboard memory and has no memory chip expansion. What's more it only has a serial cable connection to computer, so loading that 19 mb will take nearly an hour. Finally, it does autoroute. But if you miss your turn, the unit takes quite a while to recalculate your next alternative route (called auto-rerouting).

 

Again, I like the V it was great when it was new. But it sounds like you can probably swing a couple more $'s for a "modern GPS" (current technology) then I would recommend you do that.

 

As far as if "lowrance or Garmin or Magellan (or ____ )" is a better company, they all have their loyal followers. They're ALL good, but a the same time someone/somewhere has horror stories about ALL of them at one time or another.

[+Tagamet]

Exactly the kind of advice that I need. Although I don't need "bleeding edge" technology, I don't want to buy something out of the dark ages. I definitely want expandability (SD card if possible) and USB 2.0 support. I still need to visit the Big Three's websites, to scope out the different model's features. You've given me a very good start on the Lowrance's.

 

Although most of the models I've seen that have voice feedback are way out of my price range, the one Lowrance you mentioned is close (to my budget). I have this bizarre picture in mind of getting very close to a cache and being told:

"Turn left. .....

"Your OTHER left...."

"NO, now you need to turn RIGHT, you idiot..."

"Will you PLEASE hand me to someone else?"

 

You get the idea.

 

Tagamet

[+GrandpaKim]

I've got the Garmin GPSMAP 60CS and I love it. It's fairly new. It doesn't have expandable memory, but it comes with 59MB of internal memory. That's enough to load all of the road maps for Utah and still have room left over for other close places. It has autorouting, just not voice prompts. When I'm driving to the cache, I use the "follow roads" option. Then when I get out of the car, I change to off-road. It has a big color screen for a hand-held which is easily visible in any light condition. I got it from Amazon.com for about $300. It can store 1,000 waypoints. It has a Geocache option so that when you find the cache, it will change it to a found cache and log it in it's calendar. It then will ask you if you want to find the next closest cache. All you have to do is click go and your off to the next cache.

 

What I do for paper-less caching is I'm a premium member on geocaching.com. This allows me to define pocket queries. I've set up 8 queries that cover the entire state of Utah. I then use GSAK on the PC. It has an option to get my emails and download the queries and import them into the data base. I then export them out of GSAK and import them into CacheMate on my Sony Clie. Now I've got everything I need to go caching without carrying a bunch of paper around with me.

[+Tagamet]

Thanks for the info GrandpaKim. I like the dedicated caching mode and the large color screen the 60cs has, but I do wish that it supported external memory cards. $300 seems like a sweet deal, since it's getting significantly higher bids on Ebay.com. Maybe I'm confusing models. I've been reading this computer screen so much, I think my eyes are bleeding.

That seems like a lot of steps to get the waypoints into the PDA. Is it that way for most GPS units?

Thanks again,

Tagamet

[+GrandpaKim]

That seems like a lot of steps to get the waypoints into the PDA. Is it that way for most GPS units?

Yes. You've got to get them into a program on your PC (unless you want to try entering them all using your GPS ). Running pocket queries and downloading them into your PC program is fairly easy. And then you need to pick which ones you want to download into your GPSr. Because I have almost 4,000 waypoints in GSAK and my 60CS only holds 1,000. Using GSAK, I can set up a filter and click on it and presto, I've got the waypoints that I want to download. I always leave a little space for manually entered waypoints. For instance, a multi-stage cache, or a new one that just came available and I don't have the time to download it and process it, etc.

Edited May 30, 2005 by GrandpaKim

[+Team Cotati]

That 1,000 waypoint limit might be a deal breaker don't you think?

[+bigdog999]

I don't see why 1000 waypoints would be a deal-breaker. Most people don't do 1000 caches in a year. It only takes minutes to erase the waypoints loaded onto the GPS and put new waypoints on it.

[+briansnat]

With a $375-$450l budget, you're well out of the entry level category. If you shop around you can get a Garmin 60C and mapping software for that price. The 60C is one of the better units available. Its got a great color screen, holds 1,000 waypoints, does auto routing, has a dedicated geocaching mode and a great, user customizable user interface and a generous 56 megs of memory. To give you an idea as to what 56 megs will hold I can fit most of the northeast ( NJ, CT, CT, NJ, MA, RI, DE, part of MD, eastern PA, eastern NY and half of Maine) in the 60C using mapsource Topo.

 

For a little less you can get a Legend C or Vista C. Both are great, compact units. If small size is a consideration, you might want to look at those.

 

Wow, I was just heading to Best Buy (for something else). This might be Karma (lol). That's a great price! Can anyone chime in with a good reason to Not jump at a Garmin GPS V? Does it use SD cards? I like expandable memory.

 

Reasons not to: Older technology. Slower processor. Only 18 megs of map memory.

Reasons to: A great deal. Not long ago this was the cream of consumer grade handhelds. You get an auto routing GPS WITH the mapping software for $199. The software alone is around $120.

 

Are you saying that you see the Garmins as better than Lowrance? I'm not being smart, I simply don't know enough about ANY of the brands. The consensus seemed to be the Lowrance were as good (if not better than) as the Garmen.

 

I wouldn't say they are better. They are good units for the money. I've been test driving a Lowrance H20 for close to a month and overall I'm pretty happy with it. The Topo map program is better than Garmins or Magellans. Its more detailed and has a lot more information than the other two.

 

I find the Garmin user interface to be far more intuitive and easy to use. Also, getting waypoints on a Lowrance is a bit more involved than it is with the Garmin because the Lowrance doesn't use GPX or LOC files and doesn't have a direct PC hookup. You need a card reader and have to convert the files to Lowrances USR format. THey also neglect to include how to do this in the user manual and I still haven't figured out how to load tracks from the unit.

 

I find their warning screens (off course, arriving at destination, etc...) to be annoying as they appear like a pop up ad and block your screen. With the Garmin units they are displayed below the screen.

 

I was using the iFinder under heavy tree cover and it had a hard time of getting an EPE (estimated position error) of less than 50 feet and it was usually over 100. My Garmin 60CS was around 20-30 feet the entire time. That being said, it led me to the cache and at the cache site both it and my 60CS read 10-15 feet.

Edited May 30, 2005 by briansnat

[+IVxIV]

Also, getting waypoints on a Lowrance is a bit more involved than it is with the Garmin because the Lowrance doesn't use GPX or LOC files and doesn't have a direct PC hookup

I've never tried loading waypoints to a Garmin (or Magellan) via computer before.. Are you saying with a Garmin you can load a GPX/LOC file directly into the GPSr (no intermediate software needed?)

Edited May 30, 2005 by IVxIV

[+briansnat]

Also, getting waypoints on a Lowrance is a bit more involved than it is with the Garmin because the Lowrance doesn't use GPX or LOC files and doesn't have a direct PC hookup

I've never tried loading waypoints to a Garmin (or Magellan) via computer before.. Are you saying with a Garmin you can load a GPX/LOC file directly into the GPSr (no intermediate software needed?)

Nothing other than EasyGPS or GSAK. What I mean is that there are no conversion steps, nor do I have to open it up and take out the card and put it in a reader. I just plug in the cable, call the waypoints up in EasyGPS and hit send.

Edited May 30, 2005 by briansnat

[+Team Cotati]

I don't see why 1000 waypoints would be a deal-breaker. Most people don't do 1000 caches in a year. It only takes minutes to erase the waypoints loaded onto the GPS and put new waypoints on it.

I'm sorry, I was thinking 500. Must have been another one of those 50% days, eh?

[+Tagamet]

First off, thanks to *everyone* for the hands on experience reports. Until Briansnat's post today, I was seriously looking at the Lowrance M100. I downloaded the manual last night and was reading through that. I didn't like the idea that you had to remove the batteries to install or remove the sd memory card, but I thought that it could just stay in there to be read by a computer. Is that NOT the case, or can it be read by the USB connection?

Thanks,

Tagamet

PS I can get it for ~$390 on line.

[+Team Cotati]

First off, thanks to *everyone* for the hands on experience reports. Until Briansnat's post today, I was seriously looking at the Lowrance M100. I downloaded the manual last night and was reading through that. I didn't like the idea that you had to remove the batteries to install or remove the sd memory card, but I thought that it could just stay in there to be read by a computer. Is that NOT the case, or can it be read by the USB connection?

Thanks,

Tagamet

PS I can get it for ~$390 on line.

The Magellan Meridian units have the same SD card access issue, you might want to avoid them as well.

[+Ladybug Kids]

The Offroute website a helpful chart that has side by side comparisons of Garmin and Magellan units.

[+Team Cotati]

The Offroute website a helpful chart that has side by side comparisons of Garmin and Magellan units.

WOW!! Thanks. Has that been Markwelled?

 

Bookmarking that puppy for sure.

 

Hopefully they will be adding the new eXplorist units soon, eh?

Edited May 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+IVxIV]

First off, thanks to *everyone* for the hands on experience reports. Until Briansnat's post today, I was seriously looking at the Lowrance M100. I downloaded the manual last night and was reading through that. I didn't like the idea that you had to remove the batteries to install or remove the sd memory card, but I thought that it could just stay in there to be read by a computer. Is that NOT the case, or can it be read by the USB connection?

Thanks,

Tagamet

PS I can get it for ~$390 on line.

Yes it's a bit of an extra step having to remove the batteries in order to access the memory card in the iWay 100M. But remember, you need to remove the batteries anyway in order to charge them so, popping out the memory card at that time is really a no brainer. And the design is very rugged & reliable.

 

Ultimately it would have been sweet if Lowrance opted for a direct USB connection to the GPSr for this interface, but they didn't do that for some reason at least while using the memory card reader you can have USB 2.0 speed interface to cards up to 1 gigabyte in capacity. And remember the iWay 100m is the only "rugged" handheld GPSr on the market that has the voice prompted autorouting. Hopefully having this feature helps making living with the memory-card interface hassle less painful

 

If "rugged" is not important to you, then check out the Garmin iQue series of GPS/PDA's they have talking autorouting too, however their PDA form factor makes them very delicate and very expensive. Try not to drop them, or rain splash will ruin your day. Also the batteries are only good for a few hours.

[+webscouter.]

I have a Vista and a GPSMAP 60CS. Either one of them is a great unit but if I was to buy just one it would be the 60CS.

 

I have never found the memory to be an issue as I have never driven farther than the maps I put into it in a day. I drove from KC to south Texas and loaded all the maps between my home and my destination into the unit at one time.

 

Another thing to look at is customer service. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who has anything less than stellar to say about Garmins service.

[+Tagamet]

Sooooo many factors to consider!

Tagamet

[+NcryptioN]

I found the Magellan eXplorist 500 is a great deal @ $399.00. It comes with a geocachManger And is able to Dl waypoints & cords. from the website...16bit ColorScreen.8mb SDcard included,lots of great features...

chk it out

Edited May 30, 2005 by NcryptioN

[+Team Cotati]

Sooooo many factors to consider!

Tagamet

Get the Garmin 60CS, it will make you a happy cacher for many years to come. What navigation/gaming needs can you forsee that could possibly make that an incorrect choice?

[+Tagamet]

Sooooo many factors to consider!

Tagamet

Get the Garmin 60CS, it will make you a happy cacher for many years to come. What navigation/gaming needs can you forsee that could possibly make that an incorrect choice?

Thanks to everyone for the great input. I found my first cache today (yes, before I ordered the GPS. I'm going to take the TB I got today and leave it at a second spot near I-80 that's listed as a "Bug motel". I'm pretty sure where that spot is too. The Garmin 60CS should arrive on THURSDAY!

Thanks again,

Tagamet

Edited June 1, 2005 by Tagamet