"safe" Insect Repellant

[Rosepearl]

Just did my first geocaching with the family today in a nearby park. The further we went the more I wished I had researched and packed some good "safe" insect repellant. Our ds is 3.5, therefore I want something that the whole family can use. Other than "Skin so Soft" is there another readily available, safe ("DEET" free) insect repellant that would be good for the whole family to use? Natural products would be best, but they need to work, too. I apologize if this subject has already been covered. Please direct me if need be. Thank you, RosePearl

[+PhotoDuck]

WebMD article on "non deet".

 

Skin so soft worked for about 9 minutes.

 

The new fad is Lemon Eucalyptus [p-menthane 3,8-diol (PMD)]. CDC just approved it for use. No official tests on how long it works though. CDC new report

 

You can buy one form of it in a tube or pump called "Repel Lemon Eucalyptus Insect Repellent Lotion" at REI or other larger stores.

Edited May 23, 2005 by PhotoDuck

[Rosepearl]

That was fast! Thank you!

[+briansnat]

I wished I had researched and packed some good "safe" insect repellant

 

If you do your research you will find out that DEET is safe. Its been used by hundreds of millions for close to half a century. Reactions to DEET are extremely rare and usually tied to misuse.

[+sept1c_tank]

I have used 100% DEET for years, adn I can sepell jozt fyne.

[+Prime Suspect]

I wished I had researched and packed some good "safe" insect repellant

 

If you do your research you will find out that DEET is safe. Its been used by hundreds of millions for close to half a century. Reactions to DEET are extremely rare and usually tied to misuse.

I stopped using DEET and switch to a Picardin based repellent (Cutter Advanced), not because of worry about personal health, but because DEET can damage plastics, like my GPS screen, or my Suunto Vector watch face. Also, it doesn't have the lingering odor of DEET.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I like to odor or DEET, thats what makes it work.

[Familie Tricaching]

An older, though still valid writup of some repellants, including permethrin, can be found in the May 2003 issue of Consumer Reports magazine. (It is available online, though by paid subscription only at www.consumerreports.org - your library should have the print versions for free...)

[+southdeltan]

Just did my first geocaching with the family today in a nearby park. The further we went the more I wished I had researched and packed some good "safe" insect repellant. Our ds is 3.5, therefore I want something that the whole family can use.

Deet is safe.

 

What does "ds" mean? That a typo or an abbreviation?

 

sd

[Familie Tricaching]

ds=dear son, dh=dear husband, dd=dear daughter.... etc

[+kent1915]

I have been hearing lots around my parts about geraniol, a non-hazardous insecticide (according to FDA). Comes in the form of pellets, spray, gel, towelettes or bracelets with a 6 foot coverage zone. They supposedly last 120 hours if you reseal them in their containers between use. Brand name is BugBand or Bug Band. I am going to go get a couple this afternoon, actually, and see what happens. Will let you know.

[+sTeamTraen]

Natural products would be best, but they need to work, too.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem. Most "natural" products (1) ain't natural and (2) don't work. (Check out the definition of what the food manufacturers are allowed to call "natural", for example.)

 

A number of people seem to want to avoid DEET, for reasons other than the obvious "it smells bad" and "it melts my screen". A lot of people seem to have the following general view:

 

- DEET is a complicated-sounding chemical

- A few other complicated-sounded chemicals have been shown (in some cases; claimed by "60 Minutes", in others, not quite the same thing) to be harmful

- Therefore, one should avoid all complicated-sounding chemicals

- Therefore, one should avoid DEET

 

There are a couple of big non sequiturs there, methinks.

[+briansnat]

A number of people seem to want to avoid DEET, for reasons other than the obvious "it smells bad" and "it melts my screen"

 

I think a lot of people have the "It melts plastic, so imagine what it does to me" attitude. Well we (Outside perhaps Tammy Faye Bakker) are not made of plastic. There are other common products that we ingest, or apply to our bodies that are harmless to us, but affect other things.

[+southdeltan]

ds=dear son, dh=dear husband, dd=dear daughter.... etc

Ok, I thought DS was that new handheld gaming system from Nintendo.

 

Deet is safe for children.

 

And, as BrianSnat points out - we aren't plastic. The whole melting plastic thing is a bit overblown.

 

sd

[+AtoZ]

Here is a good article:

http://www.todayscacher.com/2004/jul/health3.asp

 

cheers

[+TAT]

If you are traveling near the coast, don't uderestimate the real danger of Lyme disease. I have always prefered being bitten to being sprayed. But, now I always use DEET. Just don't spray it on anything plastic.

 

If you are truely woried about chemicals, you could try covering all exposed skin. Of course that may be rather uncomfortable if it ever gets warm.

[+Marcie/Eric]

I love DEET. I've used it since I used to discgolf. It helped so much, and people would envy me when they were getting eaten.

 

On another note, after a recent geocaching walk (and an application of DEET to both Marcie and I), we decided to get a little playful and well umm. Needless to say. DEET does not taste good.

Edited May 23, 2005 by Marcie/Eric

[+carleenp]

I have thought about trying something else. Not because I worry about the safety of Deet, but because I already permethrin treat my clothes to avoid ticks and have accidentally melted a few things before with Deet. I am just too clutzy with it and it is likely only a matter of time before I melt my GPS! I might try the lemon eucalyptis thing. If it works well enough against the mosquitos on bare skin, then I am happy.

[tucoblue]

Due to ticks, chiggers, gnats, poison ivy (etc.), mosquitos, greenheads,strawberry flies, and ?????? my caching is on hold until we have at least two hard frosts.

[+sbell111]

Safe, Smafe, I'd rub down with plutonium if I thought it would keep the chiggers off!

[+Glenn]

Just did my first geocaching with the family today in a nearby park. The further we went the more I wished I had researched and packed some good "safe" insect repellant. Our ds is 3.5, therefore I want something that the whole family can use. Other than "Skin so Soft" is there another readily available, safe ("DEET" free) insect repellant that would be good for the whole family to use? Natural products would be best, but they need to work, too. I apologize if this subject has already been covered. Please direct me if need be. Thank you, RosePearl

I understand your consern as I have young ones too. From your post I take it that by safe you mean chemical free. The short answer is NO. You're not going to find anything that it is all natural and that will protect more than just a few minutes.

 

DEET sounds like DDT but they are two different chemicals and they are designed to do two different things. DDT is an insecticide (insect killer) and DEET is an insect repellant. DEET is not DDT. Okay, now with that out of the way.

 

OFF! Deep Woods with 23.8% DEET used to contain more DEET than what was considered acceptable for small children. But, not anymore. The old minimum age was two years, it is now two months and the old maximum percentage was 10%, it is now 30%. Just make sure to check the percentage of DEET in the product you buy. It is usually listed under Active Ingredient. Some Off! products contain as much as 95% DEET. Way more than what is recommended for children. Unless I was planning on sleeping unprotected in the woods over night I wouldn't use anything with more than 30% DEET for myself, and even less for my children. Also, unlike sunscreen you do not need to cover their entire body for it to be effective. You can and should dab it on like perfume. If you have a child that is still putting everything in their mouth pick a spot that they can not put in their mouth. DEET is safe as long as it is NOT injested. But with symptoms of injestion like; acute manic psychosis, delusions of grandeur, rapid pressured speech, headache, disorientation, agitation, ataxia, gait disturbance, seizure, and toxic encephalopathy. I can understand why you may not want to chance using DEET on a small child that still puts things in their mouth.

 

The most popular non-DEET repelant is currently IR3535 and is currently only sold by AVON in the USA as Skin So Soft Bug Guard Plus and Skin So Soft eXpedition. It is reported that Bug Guard Plus can protect for about 25 minutes and Avon claims on their that eXpedition can protect for as long as eight hours. However I am unaware of any studies that have been done with children and IR3535. Any side effects are unknown to me at this time. But it is, like DEET, EPA approved and considered safe.

[+briansnat]

Also, unlike sunscreen you do not need to cover their entire body for it to be effective. You can and should dab it on like perfume

 

Most of your info is good, but this isn't true. If you leave part of your body uncovered, the bugs will find it. I've not only read this many places, but I've seen it first hand. Just this week I had applied a cream DEET based repellent to my face, arms, neck and legs, but neglected to apply it to the back of my hand (though my palms were thoroughly protected because they were doing the applying). Where did I get a mosquito bite? You gessed it, the back of my hand.

 

The way DEET works is that it "confuses" the insect's receptors. Because its only effective for a short distance you will still see mosquitos nearby and if you watch one after you've protected yourself, you will see it buzz around your body making numerous attempts to land. If it finds an unprotected spot, it will succeed.

[+zcubed]

DEET sounds like DDT but they are two different chemicals and they are designed to do two different things. DDT is an insecticide (insect killer) and DEET is an insect repellant. DEET is not DDT. Okay, now with that out of the way.

There isn't anything wrong with DDT. It is probably safer than DEET.

 

Linky-dink

[+Prime Suspect]

The way DEET works is that it "confuses" the insect's receptors. Because its only effective for a short distance you will still see mosquitos nearby and if you watch one after you've protected yourself, you will see it buzz around your body making numerous attempts to land. If it finds an unprotected spot, it will succeed.

That's actually just a best guess. They still don't know exactly how it works.

[+Munin]

I think a lot of people have the "It melts plastic, so imagine what it does to me" attitude. Well we (Outside perhaps Tammy Faye Bakker) are not made of plastic. There are other common products that we ingest, or apply to our bodies that are harmless to us, but affect other thing.

I put some leftover spaghetti in a plastic container last night, and this morning I found that the sauce had permanently stained the interior a reddish-orange color. Imagine what it must do to your stomach!

 

I used 100% DEET (Deep Woods Off for Sportsmen) extensively last summer/fall. It came in a dinky 1 oz pump-spray bottle that fit easily in my fanny pack, so I always had it available when I needed it. Typically, if I needed it at any point during the day I was going to need it all day, so the longer duration from the high concentration was convenient - didn't have to keep stopping every hour or two to re-dose myself.

 

Experienced some extremely minor pitting on my GPSr case - I use a Foretrex (normally worn on my forearm), and a number of times forgot to take it off before spritzing on the Off. Barely noticeable unless the light's good and you know where to look. Only truly "bad plastic encounter" I've had was, curiously enough, with the plastic blister-pack that the bottle comes packaged in at the store. Had a spare bottle still in its packaging stashed in my luggage one trip, it leaked a bit, and did quite literally melt the packaging, producing a rather foul aroma. While in my fanny pack, I kept the bottle inside a sandwich baggie - those baggies would develop an odd texture after a while, but never actually melted. Still other things - the nylon pack itself, various plastic trade items, the base of my compass - have come in contact with the 100% DEET and shown zero reaction. There's a whole range of materials that get lumped into the general category of "plastic", and their reaction to DEET seems to vary considerably.

 

A few weeks ago I found a similar 1 oz pump-spray of Cutter's 7% Picardin repellent, so I've tossed that into my pack to give it a whirl. Only used it a couple of times so far, seemed very effective, but the duration seemed rather short - maybe half an hour? I figure I'll keep using the Picardin until the bottle's empty, then decide whether it'd be more convenient to go back to the high-concentration DEET.

[+Glenn]

DEET sounds like DDT but they are two different chemicals and they are designed to do two different things. DDT is an insecticide (insect killer) and DEET is an insect repellant. DEET is not DDT. Okay, now with that out of the way.

There isn't anything wrong with DDT. It is probably safer than DEET.

 

Linky-dink

DDT was banned by the EPA in the 70's. The ban helped save our endangered Osprey population. If you believe the doom-sayers the ban may have saved us humans too. I tend to believe a more balanced viewpoint. But this thread isn't about DDT.

[+Glenn]

Also, unlike sunscreen you do not need to cover their entire body for it to be effective. You can and should dab it on like perfume

 

Most of your info is good, but this isn't true. If you leave part of your body uncovered, the bugs will find it. I've not only read this many places, but I've seen it first hand. Just this week I had applied a cream DEET based repellent to my face, arms, neck and legs, but neglected to apply it to the back of my hand (though my palms were thoroughly protected because they were doing the applying). Where did I get a mosquito bite? You gessed it, the back of my hand.

 

The way DEET works is that it "confuses" the insect's receptors. Because its only effective for a short distance you will still see mosquitos nearby and if you watch one after you've protected yourself, you will see it buzz around your body making numerous attempts to land. If it finds an unprotected spot, it will succeed.

Rosepearl is asking about a "safe" DEET free alternative for the whole family. Rosepearl was specifically asking about something safe for their 3 1/2 year old son. There is plenty of good discussion about adults using DEET in this topic.

 

My point is that DEET is safe for children as long as you keep them from injesting it.

 

When used at the recomended dosage the small amout of DEET that is absorbed through the skin is safe, even for children. But, DEET isn't ment to be taken internaly. Since children are smaller than adults it also takes a lot less DEET to cause problems in children. For those of you without children, even at 3 1/2 years old, children put all kinds of things in their mouth, lick and suck on their arms, rub their nose and eyes. All of that has the potential of causing extra amounts of DEET to enter in to the childs body if those areas are covered with DEET.

 

But, this doesn't mean that DEET isn't safe to use on children. When using DEET on small children it is best to dab the DEET on in areas that child can't stick in their mouth.

[+jeepurnaz]

First off, new to board, so hi to everyone. Check out this site for info on

bug repellants and such. I have used 3m Ultrathon and it works great.

This year though I have swithed to a combo spray, so far so good.

http://www.scs-mall.com/

Edited May 27, 2005 by jeepurnaz

[+Alan2]

Welcome to the insanity

[+fishfam]

As a slightly crunchy family ourselves, we try to do as much natural as possible but if my kids accidently slip and fall and find a happy meal in their mouth, no big deal. They eat organic and natural most of the time so an occasional mess of chemicals is no big deal to me. That being said, I've rarely applied bugspray to the kids. Some of them have probably never had it. I did buy some stuff from the natural food store last year. It's probably not 100% natural, but it's probably better than mainstream stuff. I don't know how well it works, I don't think we even used it. But I'm sure we will this year with our new hobby. Now if I could just find some poisen oak repellent.

[+DaveA]

I have used 3m Ultrathon and it works great.

This year though I have swithed to a combo spray, so far so good.

http://www.scs-mall.com/

Ultrathon is deet based.

 

So, I am trying to follow this thread to see if anyone has mentioned good results with a non deet based product.

 

I don't think I have seen anything mentioned, but might have missed/overlooked something.

 

If somebody vouches for something I am willing to try it although I am happy with using deet products, the more deet the more effective I have found.

 

Somebody mentioned Permethrin, but I was under the impression is was a bug killer, not a repellant, am I mistaken about that?

[+wornout]

Welcome to the insanity

Amen the good weather sure brings them out.

[+Glenn]

As a slightly crunchy family ourselves, we try to do as much natural as possible but if my kids accidently slip and fall and find a happy meal in their mouth, no big deal. They eat organic and natural most of the time so an occasional mess of chemicals is no big deal to me. That being said, I've rarely applied bugspray to the kids. Some of them have probably never had it. I did buy some stuff from the natural food store last year. It's probably not 100% natural, but it's probably better than mainstream stuff. I don't know how well it works, I don't think we even used it. But I'm sure we will this year with our new hobby. Now if I could just find some poisen oak repellent.

What's the stuff you used called? How long does it protect?

[+Munin]

So, I am trying to follow this thread to see if anyone has mentioned good results with a non deet based product.

 

I don't think I have seen anything mentioned, but might have missed/overlooked something.

 

I mentioned Picardin at the end of my earlier, rambling post. It's not DEET-based. I've only used it a couple of times - it's something I just recently added to my caching kit. Seemed effective against mosquitoes - I was caching in a town (Carlisle, MA) whose mascot is the mosquito , and was losing about a pint of blood a minute before I dug out the spray. After applying the Picardin, the skeeters left me alone. Good points: seemed as effective as DEET, but Picardin supposedly does not harm any types of plastic. Bad points: relatively short duration, seemed to last approx half an hour. (That's with Cutter's 7% Picardin repellent - I haven't come across a more concentrated version.)

 

Somebody mentioned Permethrin, but I was under the impression is was a bug killer, not a repellant, am I mistaken about that?

 

I haven't used Permethrin, but my understanding is that it's both a repellent and a bug killer. The products I've seen are designed to be sprayed on your clothes (and can also be used on tents, sleeping bags, ground cloths, etc) - after it dries your clothes form a bug-repellent barrier. (But only for the parts of your body that're covered - you still need to apply repellent to uncovered areas!) I believe it only kills mosquitoes/ticks that come into direct contact with the treated material. Most sites I've read say it lasts 2-3 weeks between treatments, although I've at least one site claim 6 weeks. These sites all mention that it will last through similar numbers of washings (i.e., from 2-3 washings up to 6 washings, depending on the source).

[+briansnat]

It's probably not 100% natural, but it's probably better than mainstream stuff. I don't know how well it works,,,

 

How can it be better than the mainstream stuff if it may not work?

 

Now if I could just find some poisen oak repellent.

 

Here ya go!

Edited May 27, 2005 by briansnat

[Charles Iverson]

one word tabasco!!!

 

hey it worked on tv just don't get near any dry grass

 

i have heard that deet is safe but i use sun screen wipes

i will look up a link to them

Edited May 27, 2005 by Charles Iverson

[dsandbro]

Yeah. DEET is perfectly safe when used in moderation and as directed. I wouldn't want to bathe in a tub of it, though. I wash up whenever I come inside after using it.

 

An article in a magazine a few weeks ago said based on military tests using DEET higher than 30% does not improve effectiveness; i.e. 30% is equally effective as 100%.

 

I have heard numerous anecdotal reports to the contrary ("your results may vary") but I wonder how much of that is placebo effect or confirmational bias.

 

We use the wipes on our face and the spray for the rest of the body.

[Extreme Geocacher]

DEET is the best. I like to mix liquid DEET (military issue) with citronella oil. Don't leave home without it.

[+Team Snoopy]

The most popular non-DEET repelant is currently IR3535 and is currently only sold by AVON in the USA as Skin So Soft Bug Guard Plus and Skin So Soft eXpedition. It is reported that Bug Guard Plus can protect for about 25 minutes and Avon claims on their that eXpedition can protect for as long as eight hours. However I am unaware of any studies that have been done with children and IR3535. Any side effects are unknown to me at this time. But it is, like DEET, EPA approved and considered safe.

Just wondering if anyone has used this and how good is it? I'm looking for something that does not have deet. I don't mind the stuff normally, but being preggo in my first trimester with twins, I don't want to use that right now. Also I like how this Avon stuff you don't have to wash off. Seems alot safer and easier to use when camping and such where water is not readily available. But will it protect against ticks, mosquitos and nats?? It's all half off at Avon right now, so I might just go ahead and buy some to try.