Replaced Equals Destroyed?

[StripeMark]

Check out:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=JE1870

 

Since there is no longer a "BRAUN 3", should this PID entry be marked as destroyed?

 

And then this newly set mark "BRAUN 3 RESET 2005" should get a new PID then, correct?

 

Maybe it's time to actually send off a report to the NGS? How does one go about doing this?

 

I've found many benchmarks where I was the first to log it. Should all of them be reported to the NGS?

 

Thanks!

[Z15]

I think the reason this stille exists is because at the time the underground mark had not been destroyed. If that can be confirmed then it may be destroyed.

[holograph]

I came across a slightly different situation last week, where the PID for the original, presumably destroyed station is available, but there is no PID for the reset.

 

See LY0508

[mloser]

That most likely means the surveyor (or county, or state, etc) did not submit the information to the NGS.

[holograph]

I surmised as much, but there are other resets in the same level line that were submitted, presumably by the NY DOT. It was odd that this one wasn't. It looks like they were all on bridges that were rebuilt about the same time.

 

See C 252 RESET 1956 and B 252 RESET 1956

[+Black Dog Trackers]

It was a while ago and I can't remember who or where, but a GC benchmark hunter did find, in one case, both the original mark and the reset mark, each with its own PID .

 

Mloser and I have both been to JV4593 where the only existing mark is a RESET mark (pic) and it has no PID. We both logged JV4593 as Didn't Find It. The really odd thing about it is that the reset mark's Agency is the NGS! There's no NGS log in their database for JV4593 from when the disk was reset (1994), and the NGS proximity search shows no ERDL RESET mark.

 

This somewhat complicates the issue of an agency submitting data to the NGS. Perhaps a different agency used an NGS disk?

 

Eeek ! On finding the reset mark, RobAtSGH logged JV4593 as a find in the NGS database! This looks like a Deb question. I will email her.

[+BuckBrooke]

StripeMark,

Please log both your FOUNDS and NOTFOUNDS to the NGS. They very much appreciate it.

As to the BRAUN 3 (RESET) issue, I would email Deb with your photos. Most likely you'll get a NOT FOUND out of it. It's the old saw; are they ABSOLUTELY sure that the mark is destroyed? Still, your log might clarify the situation.

 

Buckner

Astrophysics grad student

[evenfall]

StripeMark,

 

Before you write to Deb, if you were thinking to, wait one.

 

The right hand knows more about what the left hand is doing than you might think.

 

The original setting has gone missing for what ever reason and has been since replaced for whatever reason by a reset mark. This has been officially done. NGS and their Surveyors or some Surveyors are working on this in some way or other.

 

You may file a not found on the original. NGS will not allow you to ask that it destroyed because you have no physical evidence. They will not destroy Station Mark disc monuments just because they are not there.

 

You can include in you notes what you think has happened. In that the Station Mark reset appears to have been reset in the same location as the original.

 

The Reset Data is not yet in the Database because the new data has not been finished. There may be more survey work to do or all the work that must be done to properly include this station in the network is in progress. If it has no PID yet, that is what is going on. You and I will get one when it gets one. If you like, you could offer to send photos to Deb, but with the possibility of no PID as yet to assign it to she may or may not know what she will file it under. Maybe she will have a PID for the station in house, but it has not been released to the public yet. Since you and I have no new PID, a recovery cannot yet be filed. Just keep an eye open for when you can.

 

Hope that Helps,

 

Rob

Edited May 22, 2005 by evenfall

[StripeMark]

I want to start logging some of my recoveries to the NGS and I was wondering.....

 

First, is this the place to do it?:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/FORMS_PROCESSING-c...y_entry_www.prl

 

For the recovering organization, I'd just be a "GEOCAC"?

 

For the free-form text area, it says "Note: Text such as RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED, or MARK NOT FOUND, or DESCRIPTION IS ADEQUATE, etc. is not necessary." Does that mean that if the description is adequate, just leave the box empty?

 

I've read a lot of forum discussion on this,..... but should I include handheld GPS corrdinates if I have them? I very seldom use the GPS and do 99% of my recoveries just from the description text.

 

I'm up to 138 "Found it"'s and of them 77 are first recoveries.

 

Thanks for all the help!

[+BuckBrooke]

StripeMark,

Yes, that is the correct web page to use.

 

The text box is to provide new information for the PID. Thus, if you found it, and nothing's changed in the to-reach description, and the monument is in the same condition the last person found it, don't put any text. The NGS will automatically put in "Station found as described", "Station not found", or some such text.

 

If you do have information, such as new directions on how to get to the station, comments about a reference item that is missing or changed, such as a nearby fence that's gone or moved, or a disk that's marred or monument that's damaged (POOR), write a suitable text. For stations that are SCALED in their horizontal coordinates, and you have recorded coordinates with your handheld GPS unit, put text similar to what many of us use:

 

Handheld GPS coordinates are

XXX XX.XXXN

XX XX.XXXW

 

if you're using DDD MM.MMM notation, or put DD MM SS.S if you're using D M S notation. I typically will include separate handheld coordinates for all reference marks/azimuth marks I find, even if they're fairly easy to find.

 

Congratulations on your hard work and successful recoveries. You should also consider reporting your NOT FOUNDS to the NGS; if you've spent adequate time searching for a mark a NOT FOUND is just as valuable to them as a FOUND.

Edited June 2, 2005 by BuckBrooke

[+bicknell]

For the free-form text area, it says "Note: Text such as RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED, or MARK NOT FOUND, or DESCRIPTION IS ADEQUATE, etc. is not necessary." Does that mean that if the description is adequate, just leave the box empty?

 

I've read a lot of forum discussion on this,..... but should I include handheld GPS corrdinates if I have them? I very seldom use the GPS and do 99% of my recoveries just from the description text.

I put all the waypoints in my GPS before going out. If I get to the mark and it shows the published coordinates (eg, the scaled ones) are within 10' or so (which they are suprisingly often around here) then I don't enter a waypoint. Any further off, and in particular where the scaled coordinates put it on the wrong side of a road or similar and I include coordinates. Something like "LOCATION REPORTED BY HANDHELD GPS IS N 39 32 34.2 W 078 01 02.3".

 

As for the text area, I rarely leave it blank. There is almost always something to add. I have had one or two where there was nothing to say, so it can happen, but almost all can be updated to say a landmark was destroyed, or reference a new landmark or better way to get there, or something. Remember, the idea is that from the description alone you should be able to walk up to the mark and find it, so if that's not the case think of how you can improve things.

[StripeMark]

Thanks guys!

 

I always use DD MM SS.S since that what I use in my other hobby - astronomy! Earth latitude is similar to astronomy's Declination (degrees, minutes, seconds)and longitude is a "distant cousin" to astronomy's Right Ascension (hours, minutes, seconds).

 

OK, so I should also be known as a "GEOCAC", right (with my initials)?

 

Thanks again.

[+bicknell]

OK, so I should also be known as a "GEOCAC", right (with my initials)?

Bingo!

[+BuckBrooke]

There's two or three astronomers and astrophysicists in the group, myself included.

[ArtMan]

I always use DD MM SS.S since that what I use in my other hobby - astronomy! 

And the other reason to use DMS is that it is the standard format on the NGS datasheets, so it is the one that other users of the data will be most familiar with.

 

-ArtMan-

[GH55]

BDT wrote:

 

It was a while ago and I can't remember who or where, but a GC benchmark hunter did find, in one case, both the original mark and the reset mark, each with its own PID.

 

When the old Anamosa Post Office was turned into Hawley's Super Drug, it got the orange tile treatment from the Rexall chain, covering up F 80.

 

F 80 RESET 1966 was set around the corner on the same building.

 

Now that it is being used as a video store, the orange tile is gone, and both the original and the reset are visible.