Interesting Pair Of Marks

[kc2ixe]

While getting ready to hunt some marks on this coming Sunday AM, I found an "interesting" pair of data sheets

 

KU1377 "Guard RM2"

 

and

 

KU3502 "Guard 2"

 

Looking at the description of KU3502 - sure sounds like they destroyed KU1377. I've sent it to Deb to see what she says

[evenfall]

kc2ixe,

 

Yes it is interesting.

 

It would appear that the original monumenting station was Station Guard, which was lost, Dug for and even the underground mark was not found.

 

Guard RM2 was a Reference Mark which was later leveled for Vertical Survey. I have seen a number of theses in the Seattle Area where the RM's have been turned into Bench Marks.

 

Later, Decision was made to replace the original horizontal Survey Marker which had been lost and they decided to monument the new Triangulation Station in the old Bench Mark Drill Hole since the station mark was loose. Sound thinking actually. A loose bench mark disc is not going to give you an accurate elevation without being re-leveled and checked though out it's line.

 

So the pulled the BM and replaced it with a new Tri Station disc and re Surveyed it in to second order quality.

 

So If you were thinking along the lines of asking Deb to remove PID KU1377 from the database, I concur with that. It is a dead PID and has been since 1962.

 

Question is, did you verify the current status of KU3502? You didn't say. It appears there is a Mark and 2 RM's to that.

 

In addition to the work you have done, for fun, consider looking for this.

 

KU3425 is the original First Order Triangulation Station Named GUARD. It was not found in 1962 and the reason why GUARD 2 was monumented. Since CGS Dug a deep hole and didn't find it they cannot have the PID destroyed but CGS did the Destroying on Guard RM2 to make Guard 2 So they recovered the disc. That PID should by rights no longer be an active PID.

 

Two things left to find in my thinking. RM1 was found in 1962 but it has not been listed in the Box score for the original Station Guard It may still be there somewhere. The to find is listed on the KU3425 Datasheet

 

RM2 is of course gone...

 

RM3 is listed in the Box Score: KU3425| CB6109 GUARD RM 3 34.620 METERS 26208 Call it WSW. I'd make a waypoint of the original Station Guard and run a go to to get to it's old ballpark location then I would walk off the old RM's to it from there.

 

I find a GPS makes a really lousy compass at walking speeds, so I like to use a real one. It lets you stand and pivot and think a bit while still telling you where you are facing.

 

There is narrative to find info for it on the datasheet also. You may notice from another discussion we had recently that this reference mark has a PID that starts with a C designation that has no datasheet. This is normal for RM's no worries there.

 

So I guess if you like there are a couple challenging 43 year old RM's hiding near there too if you like challenging hunts. Those would be fun for geocaching finds listed as notes anyway since the station is long gone.

 

When you are done with that fun, It appears there is another station named Guard in Nassau County as well...

 

Nice work! :-)

 

Rob

[kc2ixe]

kc2ixe,

 

...snip..

 

Question is, did you verify the current status of KU3502? You didn't say. It appears there is a Mark and 2 RM's to that.

 

...snip...

Rob,

I get to that neighborhood about 1x/year - and tomorrow is the day, so no, I have NOT had a chance to look for all the remote marks - or the station itself! They are on my list - in fact FIRST on my list for my 7:00am hunt

 

Also on my list - time permitting

KU3420 (Likely gone - won't spend much time on it - reported lost by USCGS)

KU3425 - aka Guard and it's remote marks per your message

KU3502 (which we have discussed)

KU3513 (This one I expect to be easy - and I park my car there for the event, so....)

KU3431 (right with KU3425)

KU3410 - this is a "drive by" - it's hard to miss

ku3411 - the twin of 3410

KU3503 - believe it or not, I think this one is gone- but I'm fuzzy

KU3376

KU3380 - those 2, if I want to do a FULL recovery might take too much time

KU2140 - suspect this one will be easy

KU1375

KU3499 - suspect that THIS one will be a not found

 

As you can see, there is quite a density of horizontal stations in that area - and heck, go another 1/2 mile west, there is another 1/2 dozen or so

 

I'm fairly sure why all the marks - Ft Tilden (Now part of Gatewat National Park) was a coastal gun battery and then Nike missle site until the 1960s. MANY of the marks that are just west of these are on top of old gun emplacements - and some seem to be in regular use per the notes (Hey, put a high accuracy mark where people can drive up and find it in trivial time....) I believe that most of these were put in to help setup the guns/missles

[kc2ixe]

Also on my list - time permitting

Well, didn't get to even 1/2 my list - I'll start with the "less interesting" first

 

KU3513 - Not found - THINK I found the slab, but there has been extensive dune building all along this area, and did NOT find the mark - was not prepared to hack down bushes and dig in the sand in what is now a wildlive area

 

KU2140 - Not found - seems like someone places what could be a witness post, but that is mostly buried by a dune

 

KU3503 - found good - it's at the foot of Beach 169st

 

KU3410 and KU3411 - It looks like both these domes have been restored/repainted. For instance - spire on KU3411 does NOT seem to be broken off - Don't know WHAT to call the status on these

 

KU3502 - found good, but I did NOT search for the remote marks

[evenfall]

kc2ixe,

 

You said, "KU3410 and KU3411 - It looks like both these domes have been restored/repainted. For instance - spire on KU3411 does NOT seem to be broken off - Don't know WHAT to call the status on these"

 

It has been common practice to call thing that seem to have been altered POOR with a note that the original item had been recovered as damaged previously but nor appears to have been repaired. There is no proof that this can be determine to be the original item intersected so intersect with caution.

 

This way you call attention to the alteration and a future Surveyor can determine if the location will work adequately for their purposes or not. In some cases it may, and in others it may not, depending on what they want to accomplish.

 

Another alternative is to request to Deb Brown that the alterations you found cannot confirm it is the original item and ask if she would like to Destroy it. She may also just recommend Poor with a note as I have. I suppose it comes down to whether you want to go with my advice or ask Deb.

 

As to the Wild life areas, yes, I would concur with a not found and a not as to what you did find there. Many beach areas like this are frowned upon for digging and or altering in declared sensitive areas.

 

Nice Work!

 

Rob