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5/5 Expeditionary Force


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OK, so I was thinking the other day that it would be cool to put together an exclusive club for 5/5 finders. I'm still rattling it around in my head, but here is a few of my ideas. I doubt anyone... or at least very few people would qualify to be a member. That is kinda the idea initially... it should be difficult. I know it would be a while befoe I actually qualify as a member.

 

So here are a couple of my ideas that are just kinda rattling around in my mind...

  • To qualify a person would have to have all 5/5 caches within 300 miles of your home location or 15 5/5 finds... whichever comes first.
  • I would like a common area to meet or get together to plan out your adventures or team up with others to complete 5/5 missions.
  • Once qualified you would hold some kind of special rank... for additional 5/5 milestones you would gain additional rank.

So, am I crazy? Has someone else already put something together?

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How would you incorporate them?

By the logs. The quality of a 5/5 experience should be high, or really, what's the point?

 

I have several 5/5s and many others in 5 star terrain. I can't tell you how many emails/logs I've gotten from folks saying that these harder caches were among their favorite geocaching experiences.

Edited by Snoogans
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5 1's is fun too, but certainly not as adventerous. I'm trying trying to think of the joke you would be talking about. I can only think of one my Dad used to say about two 20 year olds... but I'm sure it was different :antenna:

I never had a perfect 10. But I have had 5 2's.

 

I have done several 5/5 but I don't know if I have done 15 or the ones 300 miles from me. It makes me wish I was in a flatter state.

 

Naah.

 

Ratings are definitely subjective. I have noticed a level 3 terrain here would equal a level 5 terrain in Vegas, for example.

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Ratings are definitely subjective. I have noticed a level 3 terrain here would equal a level 5 terrain in Vegas, for example.

So true. I recently did one the person rated as a '5' for terrain.

 

I guess they thought getting up that 300-foot hill was only possible by 4 X 4 and that was the "special equipment" required. :antenna:

 

On the other hand, this one, while not a 5/5 certainly is way underrated for both terrain and difficulty.

 

Anyway . . . I don't think I'll ever be a member of the 5/5 Expeditionary Force. I doubt if I'll ever complete a single 5/5 . . .

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What about us 5/5 hiders??? Do we get in too??? :antenna:

I agree with Snoogans what about us that go thru all the work just to make a 5 x 5 a viable cache. We don't hike it once, it took me about 3 hikes to get the Special hid, then I had to do 2 hikes to finish the The "Dessert", and that doesn't count the pre prep work on the map and putting the pieces together even before I went to the hills. I really don't need recognition the logs of those that have looked for them says it all.

 

And the term level 5 can be very subjective, I have one cache that has a 5 for terrain, but the jeep takes all the real work out of it. That is why when I put the Dessert together I really tried to make it a 5 all around.

And from what I've seen those that go for the tough ones are not the kind to flaunt their endeavours, they know that they did what a lot a cachers can't do and just let it go.

Maybe when Jeremy visits Estes Park, I may be able to give him a guided tour on these caches.

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I think tar and feathering anyone is a great idea... heck, it could be the first locationless 5/5 :antenna:

 

I agree, they are subjective. However, if someone scored 15 5/5 caches you have certainly decided to go after the tougher caches. That is the point.

 

I don't think being a member of such a group says your flaunting anything. I could quickly say that with that logic why bother even logging your caches. Forgive me... I could see this degenerating into a why log, stats, etc, etc, etc type thread. Those have become a bore.

 

Instead, I would rather find a way for others who are intrested in finding the 5/5 caches to get together. After all, I appreciate every find on any of my caches... so, you folks who have placed a 5/5 must really appreciate the extra effort folks put forth in finding yours.

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To qualify a person would have to have all 5/5 caches within 300 miles of your home location or 15 5/5 finds... whichever comes first.

Cool. :antenna: I already qualify. I have found all 5/5 caches that are within 300 miles from my home. I don't have a lot of stories to tell about them, though, given the fact that the number of such caches is exactly zero. :santa:

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Cool.  B) I already qualify. I have found all 5/5 caches that are within 300 miles from my home. I don't have a lot of stories to tell about them, though, given the fact that the number of such caches is exactly zero.  :)

Well, that is one of the reasons I posted my idea. I know folks would put some holes in it. So, now I guess I would have to figure out a way to exclude you :D

 

No, really... that is a good point. You aren't kidding, the closest I find to you is this one.

 

Although it would make if very, very difficult for someone like your self to get 15 finds, I guess a flat number of 5/5 finds is the way to go. I'm not being mean to Canadians either... I kinda like you guys :)

Edited by 4agers
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I think everyone who becomes a member should get a large tattoo on their back.

OK, maybe not... finding 5/5s is one thing... but I'm not stupid :)

 

Maybe you get a special geocoin or something. Don't know. The fun is in the challenge though.

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No, really... that is a good point. You aren't kidding, the closest I find to you is this one.

 

Although it would make if very, very difficult for someone like your self to get 15 finds, I guess a flat number of 5/5 finds is the way to go. I'm not being mean to Canadians either... I kinda like you guys :)

You must have gotten my coordinates wrong. I'm not in Canada, I'm in Buffalo, NY. However, there is still no 5/5 cache within 300 miles of me. I'm actually quite surprised at that.

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No, really... that is a good point.  You aren't kidding, the closest I find to you is this one.

 

Although it would make if very, very difficult for someone like your self to get 15 finds, I guess a flat number of 5/5 finds is the way to go.  I'm not being mean to Canadians either... I kinda like you guys :)

You must have gotten my coordinates wrong. I'm not in Canada, I'm in Buffalo, NY. However, there is still no 5/5 cache within 300 miles of me. I'm actually quite surprised at that.

Surely Starve Island and Cormorant's Roost are inside your 300 mile window. they're in Lake Erie.

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Surely Starve Island and Cormorant's Roost are inside your 300 mile window. they're in Lake Erie.

I don't see how a cache that's chained to something, and found by the recent intrepid visitors in "two minutes" according to their log, could possibly rate more than a "2" for difficulty. I don't see how a virtual cache with no puzzle could possibly rate more than a "1" for difficulty. Both are rated accurately as a "5" for terrain.

 

Maybe I could go change some of my caches to 5/5 so that I can join the club, too. :) It's not a competition. If it were a competition, I'd petition for a ratings appeal board.

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Our local group has a GeoMoron club.

 

GeoMorons have been known to do some incredibly crazy things. Among others, one group went on a hydrocache at night...

I think I'd rather be a member of this group. You can get into it by finding a single Terrain 4 cache instead of 20 Terrain 1 caches, or driving two hours for a Terrain 4.5 cache like I'll be doing this weekend. Terrain 5 is all relative. I've been on Terrain 4's that are much more physically demanding, but didn't require any special equipment other than good hiking boots, a walking stick and a sense of adventure.

 

It's also fun to take a fairly straightforward cache and up the difficulty level, like caching in a heavy snowstorm or doing a hydrocache at night in a lake filled with tree stumps that are just below the surface. Team K-9 refers to the Cranberry Osprey cache, which wasn't even rated a 5 for terrain when I found it at 10:30 p.m. with an air temperature of 38° with two boatloads of geomorons. Did we care what the rating was? Nope.

 

Here I am, inspecting the boat to be sure it was adequate for night hydrocaching.

 

dbd96741-d2d0-4aeb-b0e6-dd4a692e10f6.jpg

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Surely Starve Island and Cormorant's Roost are inside your 300 mile window.  they're in Lake Erie.

I don't see how a cache that's chained to something, and found by the recent intrepid visitors in "two minutes" according to their log, could possibly rate more than a "2" for difficulty. I don't see how a virtual cache with no puzzle could possibly rate more than a "1" for difficulty. Both are rated accurately as a "5" for terrain.

 

Maybe I could go change some of my caches to 5/5 so that I can join the club, too. :) It's not a competition. If it were a competition, I'd petition for a ratings appeal board.

Strictly from my own experience, I don't think many true 5/5s exist. A few of mine my be by some standards, to others they may not.

 

Certainly none that I have completed so far would qualify in actual fact.

 

I make no bones about puffing the "star quality" on some of my hides to keep the unprepared away. There ARE legit dangers around some of my caches and if you don't read cache pages and logs like many folks do, you could find yourself injured or dead.

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I make no bones about puffing the "star quality" on some of my hides to keep the unprepared away. There ARE legit dangers around some of my caches and if you don't read cache pages and logs like many folks do, you could find yourself injured or dead.

Being injured or dead would suck. It would really mess up my find count. Thank you for adequately disclosing the risks on your cache pages.

 

I agree that there are few true 5/5's. I don't care how many 5/5's I have done (the answer, I think, is zero); I only care that caches are accurately rated. The accurately rated Terrain 4.5 cache that I'm doing tomorrow had enough stars on the page to make me pay close attention to the cache page warnings. I've been e-mailing back and forth all week with the other three cachers who are going on this hunt. We have a safety plan and are going to pack in some rescue supplies, including something I've never carried with me except for planned hydrocaches: a life jacket.

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Oh, goodie, another exculsionary club!

 

Lep: in my 5/5 wanderings, and as I'm sure you well know, it seems as if cache owners use those numbers to denote something more difficult than your average walk in the park. Often times, it's more of a 'don't take your kids on this one' or a 'pay attention, idiot... this'n could be tough.'

 

Of the similarly rated cache I've found, none has been a true 5/5. The terrain has always been difficult and for one we used the ropes (but eh, we probably could have done it w/o them with no small risk to life and limb) but for the most part, it's more of a red flag warning than a true rating of the cache difficulty and terrain.

 

Oh, and none of them have been a 5 on the difficulty of the hide scale. 1, 1.5, 2... something along those lines.

 

Although after busting my hump on some ridicious terrain, having the cache be a tad easier to find in the end is always something of a relief.

 

-=-

michelle

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Team CHB completed the Nuwati Challenge by finding both the infamous Tube Torcher, AND the equally demanding, perhaps even more so, but lesser known High Water on the same day back in November '04. :) Both caches are legit 5/5's, with many stages, and tests of will, strength, and resolve. And they are only a few miles apart in the mountains of Western NC. Anyone is welcome to duplicate the feat, we aren't exclusionary at all.

Team CHB isn't even exclusionary, but there will always be only the six charter members. In fact, I would prefer to be an honorary geomoron, than a member of some exclusionary sect.

 

PS if after looking at our profile, you think it is all about the numbers to us, you are right. :) It's all about the number of times we can get together to seek your caches and have a lot of FUN doing it together. :D

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No, really... that is a good point.  You aren't kidding, the closest I find to you is this one.

 

Although it would make if very, very difficult for someone like your self to get 15 finds, I guess a flat number of 5/5 finds is the way to go.  I'm not being mean to Canadians either... I kinda like you guys :)

You must have gotten my coordinates wrong. I'm not in Canada, I'm in Buffalo, NY. However, there is still no 5/5 cache within 300 miles of me. I'm actually quite surprised at that.

Surely Starve Island and Cormorant's Roost are inside your 300 mile window. they're in Lake Erie.

You're right, I somehow missed those ones.

 

Can someone create a map of all 5/5s in the US? (Or in the world?). How many are there at all?

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Can someone create a map of all 5/5s in the US? (Or in the world?). How many are there at all?

As of today, there are 199 caches in the U.S. that are rated 5/5, and 132 of those elsewhere in the world. Mapping them is a simple matter of taking the pocket queries generated to obtain those numbers, and importing them into one's favorite mapping software.

 

As for how many *actual* 5/5 caches there are, as opposed to the above numbers for those that are *rated* 5/5, that's anybody's guess.

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the idea is redicilious unless there are strict standards on what constitutes what difficulty represents the stars. i have been on 1/1's where i walk to the thing and pretty much pick it up, and i have also been on oen that was considered 1.5/1.5 and i was on steep winding trails and i had to go off trail up a hill climbing about 200 or more feet. It is all relative to the person hiding it. Unless there a strict standards on what constitutes what difficulty then its pointless.

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Surely Starve Island and Cormorant's Roost are inside your 300 mile window.  they're in Lake Erie.

We have Cormorant's Roost and will be going for Starve Island on the 12th of June. We are looking forward to the adventure.

Oh, goodie, another exculsionary club!

Not exculsionary, anyone is allowed to go for a 5/5. Who is stopping anyone?

 

Are there really 5/5 caches out there? Yep, a bunch of them. Whether we agree with the cache hider or not is irrelevant and really a discussion for another thread. The point is that 5/5 caches are harder to find... some mentally, some physically and some simply in preperation.

 

I would like to have a way to simply get those more adventurous cachers together to share ideas, adventures and fun.

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I know of a few caches that are rated five stars for terrain, but only because you need some special equipment like a boat to get to it. Once there, it's more like a two star or less. Is that more challenging than some of the 4+ers that I've done? Ask the last person who almost died with me... B)

 

EDIT: Damnn I hate that winky, it looks more like I have something stuck in my eye.

Edited by Criminal
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Are there really 5/5 caches out there? Yep, a bunch of them. Whether we agree with the cache hider or not is irrelevant and really a discussion for another thread. The point is that 5/5 caches are harder to find... some mentally, some physically and some simply in preperation.

 

I would like to have a way to simply get those more adventurous cachers together to share ideas, adventures and fun.

I haven't actually found a 5/5 cache yet, but I did place one. You are right though, it takes extra preparation to find one.

 

The problem with them is partly that "special equipment" part of the rating system. As Criminal said, other than needing a boat (this particular cache) was a 2. Not all caches are this way though: My 5/5 not only requires special equipment, but it's a strenuous hike due to the elevation changes. Without that "special equipment" the rating system says it's a 4. The only factor for that extra star is the special equipment.

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OK, so Democracy reigns supreme and I am crazy! ;)

 

So, since this group is so good to bounce ideas off of... what do you think about this approach.

  • First of all, a discussion area would be a necessity. This is probably the most important aspect since it would allow everyone to bounce ideas off one another and possibly share resources. i.e. I could arrange the use of The Leprechauns lear jet to get that pesky 5/5 in Antarctica. Since The Leprechauns are experience in High Altitude caching, it is a good chance I will be safer going for it too.
  • Anyone would qualify to be a recruit so they can participate in discussions and go for the gusto. As you get more finds, your rank would increase.
  • Members of the EF can leave an EF geocoin at caches that qualify... but only at these caches. One side can say EF the other would have your rank or something. That way, only others that are willing to hit these caches can claim the geocoin.
  • I have to agree, that the more I think about how subjective a 5/5 is... it may not be the best approach. I do not want this to be easy and ensure that the tougher caches qualify. Of course, this leads to someone or a group of folks determining this. How subjective would they be? We might be able to put some guidelines behind it... what do you think?

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Our records show that weve found eight 5/5s so we're over halfway qualified! We have that 300 mile radius covered too. ;) Unfortunately, after reading over the ones we did, i cant in good conscience say that many were true 5/5s. I guess the terrain was rated correctly because of the special equipment needed, but the general difficulty on most of them didnt seem anywhere close to a 5.

 

OK, we got one that i feel was an actual 5/5,Quantum Leap! What an adventure!!! :P

Edited by Mudfrog
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