Cemetary Caching?

[+Harry Dolphin]

Opinions, of course, vary. As I have stated elsewhere, I do not do cemetery caches. This is my personal opinion/belief/whatever. Some consider it disrespect to the deceased, as I do. Others consider it to be paying due respect. Opinions vary.

I recently logged a cache in a 9/11 Memorial. I felt very ill at ease seeking a cache there, though it was respectfully placed. I will not be doing any more of these.

As Keystone Approver noted, the situation is covered by the rules. I'm free to ignore them, and others are free to seek them. I see no need for any changes.

[+Renegade Knight]

... If someone is going to do it, at least place it away from graves so that those who decide to hunt it don't run the risk of appearing disrespectful to others....

From Keystone's post above it sounds like we have already got there and I've already stated I support not having them in the vicity of graves. The larger cemetary though can have parks, pickick areas, chapels, artwork and other historical items of interest. Those are worth the visit.

 

Changing subjects. The bans on historical properties are a good example of protecting something from the people it's supposed to benefit. What does it matter if you have a great example of a colonial home with it's historically accurate grounds if it's boarded up fenced around and no-trespassing signs are hung all over it? It doesn't. It's not being appreiated by the people who it was preserved for with it's special recognition. Preservation costs money. States don't have it. Only by having visitors can you fund preservation. The irony of banning those visitors just means our historical heratage will turn to dust that much sooner. Now that I think about it I think next time I adminster funding to restore a historical location I wlll suggest a geocache. Odd are they will like the idea.

[twjolson & Kay]

I love the idea of making a cemetery a virtual cache. Someone mentioned all the old ones that aren't even taken care of anymore. Make it a virtual, list coordinates of interesting graves, do research and list facts on the cache page. I don't think it would be a bad thing to have most if not all graveyards listed. Ask those that visit to bring a flower and pull some weeds.

 

This whole SC thing started (as I understand it) because someone found one of our caches that found it offensive. Why do the damage (and eventually damage will be done) to the yard, and why give opponents ammo?? Virtuals won't hurt us; and we have SO many other places to put regular caches.

Edited May 20, 2005 by twjolson

[+Team Cotati]

I love the idea of making a cemetery a virtual cache. Someone mentioned all the old ones that aren't even taken care of anymore. Make it a virtual, list coordinates of interesting graves, do research and list facts on the cache page. I don't think it would be a bad thing to have most if not all graveyards listed. Ask those that visit to bring a flower and pull some weeds.

 

This whole SC thing started (as I understand it) because someone found one of our caches that found it offensive. Why do the damage (and eventually damage will be done) to the yard, and why give opponents ammo?? Virtuals won't hurt us; and we have SO many other places to put regular caches.

Treasonous..................but dead (pun intended) on.

[+Jeep_Dog]

Well, after logging a cemetary cache today, I encountered a sign that stated this:

 

"Do not open any grave without prior permission from Smith Cemetary Association."

 

Holy cow! They have a problem with folks opening graves?!?!?

 

I think a micro hidden in a tree is the least of problems for this particular cemetary. Geocaching seems to be one of the more civilized and respectful activities going on at this cache site...

Edited May 20, 2005 by Jeep_Dog

[+sbell111]

Hmmm. I really thought this thread was going to drop off the page. Bummer.

[+flask]

Hmmm. I really thought this thread was going to drop off the page. Bummer.

you're funny.

 

the last time i asked a cemetery super for permission to hide a cache, he offered to get me a fake headstone. i said i thought it sounded expensive. he said he knew people in the business.

 

hah!

 

he likes to approach people hunting it and ask them if he can help them find something. since they never know that he KNOWS, they never get the joke.

 

i have hunted one that's actually in the potted plant on a grave. it's kind of complicated, but it's actually very respectful. when i'm there i always feel like i'm paying a visit.

 

then again, it's a cemetery where i spent a lot of time as a kid. i used to spend many a happy hour looking up the burial records and such. they're good old families and they're gone now. when nobody is left to tell a story, it dies.

 

i'd like to think that when i'm dead people will come to my resting place and have some fun. have a picnic, play some frisbee. i like company and games in life and i hope people will remember me and pay respect by bringing their joy with them rather than sorrow.

 

at my funeral i want a band and a barbeque. i want a headstone with a secret compartment and a logbook. i want it to be perpetually stocked with nice toys and trinkets.

[+bunkerdave]

...I am a pretty open-minded guy, and even I can see where a lot of people would have a real issue with  a cache being hidden in a cemetery.  For that reason alone, I would not do it.  ...

... We should take a lesson from the off-road vehicle users who are finding their playgrounds closed and shrinking because a minority of their number can't seem to respect the rules and other people.  ...

I hear you, but by your logic, no one should ever drive off-road because some people are irresponsible.

Thank you for yanking my words out of context.

 

Getting back to the POINT:

 

Cemeteries are places of emotion. Many people, I would daresay the majority, have strong feelings regarding these and other places of memorial. It behooves everyone, not just cachers, to treat such places with respect, out of respect for the people interred therein, but also out of respect for their loved ones. After all, cemeteries, funerals, headstones, what-have-you are not for the dead, they are for the living. All I am saying is that as ambassadors for geocaching (which every one of us is, like it or not) we do ourselves a disservice when we choose to enjoy our sport in a manner which MIGHT cast it in unfavorable light. Why take the risk? SUPPOSE the director of the BLM were to learn that there was a geocache hidden in a cemetery where a deceased loved one is buried. And suppose that this director felt that was inappropriate. Do you think that when a policy regarding geocaching crossed her desk, she would be more or less likely to look favorably on geocaching as an acceptable use of public lands?

 

The parallel with off-roading is this:

 

The vast majority of OHV users are responsible users. They stay on marked trails, and obey all laws and regulations govering their activity. Every once in a while, someone decides that the trails and roads are not exciting or challenging enough, or whatever, and they choose to deviate from those prescribed routes. This upsets other users, and the agency concerned is forced to take action. Thise usually results in MORE restriction on ALL OHV users, never LESS. And the crappy thing is, that those who are most hurt by it are those who keep the rules. The ones who break the rules will most likely just go right on breaking them, and making it progressively harder and harder for other enthusiasts to enjoy OHV use, as the remaining trails become more crowded and farther apart.

 

I think you can pretty well substitute "cachers" for "ohv users" in this statement, and "lands" for "trails and routes," and see the issue at hand.

[+Jeep_Dog]

Hmmm. I really thought this thread was going to drop off the page. Bummer.

Oops, I went and did it, didn't I? Bad JD!

 

I think I'll go log another cemetary cache tomorrow as punishment.

[+sbell111]

<blah, blah, blah>

I think you can pretty well substitute "cachers" for "ohv users" in this statement, and "lands" for "trails and routes," and see the issue at hand.

Obviously, I was to subtle with my point yesterday, so I'll try again.

 

Your analogy has a fatal flaw that you even hinted at in your last post. ATVers cannot police themselves. Geocachers can and do.

 

You see, if I am irresponsible as an off-roader, there is absolutely nothing that other off-roaders can do. Geocaching, however, is a hobby that depends on the involvement of others. A cache is hidden by an individual, approved by the site for inclusion, and searched for by others. At any point, if there is a problem it can be archived and pulled.

[+sbell111]

This thread reminds me of how I learned to drive a stick. Somebody offered me the opportunity to buy a car from them for a hundred bucks. It was a little rust bucket, but I couldn't resist it. It had a four speed, but I had never driven a manual. I bullied the little bucking bronco to a nearby cemetary where I slowly-but-surely figured it out. The deserted cemetary was the ideal place to teach myself. There were roads and traffic signs, hills and curves, but no traffic.

[CoyoteRed]

What gets me is the statements that allude to cachers can't show respect in cemeteries. Another is because there are bad apples, we shouldn't do X.

 

Cemeteries aren't the only places that we geocachers should be showing respect. We all should be good neighbors no matter where we are. It doesn't have to be in a cemetery. Could be a cache along the back property line of someone's house. It could be along side a business where the owner doesn't know what the strange traffic is coming from. It could be anywhere that causes neighbors concern, not just cemeteries.

 

As for not doing something because someone might ruin it for the rest of us, well, I might as well nail my doors shut and sit home twiddling my thumbs.

[+Nyarlotep]

Short reply: I'm never in favor of more rules. I think people should use their better judgment, and realize that there will always be people who use bad judgment and just ignore them. A blanket "never in a cemetery" is detrimental to anyone who can a) properly hide a cache in such a way that it won't be disturbing gravesites, or B ) find such a cache in the same manner. All this talk of letting some governing body decide what's best for us instead of using our judgment is eerily similar to larger events in this country.

I spent many youthful hours drinking, smoking, and making out on a cool pyramidal tomb in a local cemetery. I think people put too much emphasis on "oh no, we're stepping on Uncle Larry" when walking around. How're you gonna get good headstone rubbings if you don't step on a grave once in a while? They're dead. They don't care.

 

edited to remove $#@% unintentional smilies.

Edited May 21, 2005 by Nyarlotep

[+Team Cotati]

People who equate respectful conduct when obtaining a headstone rubbing with irreverent boozing and dry humping on someone's grave site.....just do not get it and are in fact a big part of the problem. Amazing stuff.

[+Alan2]

Tacky and disrespectful. And probably illegal as cemetaries are private property. And against caching rules about placing caches on private property without permission. But lots of cachers do it. Check you concience and if it bothers you don't do it.

[+Team Cotati]

Hey Brian!! Is this accurate: "...But lots of cachers do it."?

[+JimmyEv]

Here's logs from the caches that precipated the whole SC debacle:

 

“Thanks for the History lessons.”

“An interesting large cemetery with few graves and impressive slabs.”

“We found many hand-crafted Monuments here with Conch shells and holiday decoration placed on graves. There are many young Veterans.”

“JUST READING THE HEADSTONES WAS FUN”

“Very interesting place...lots of "history".”

“While in the wrong section, I noticed a comfy looking lawn glider by a grave. Having lost a couple of loved ones in the past year, I can appreciate the grief that would bring someone to come & sit by a grave often enough to need a chair.”

“Take time to look at the interesting very old trees here.”

“If you find cemeteries of interest, the National Cemetery across the street is worth a visit after you finish here. After the War of Northern Aggression, the remains of Union soldiers from the many battlefield graveyards were brought there.”

“It is sad to see the graves of veterans from WW1, WW2 and Vietnam in these conditions.”

“After another prepatory lecture by Dad on how to act respectful before crossing sacred thresholds, we started our quest.”

“Many of the cemeteries are poorly maintained, if maintained at all. This one is very overgrown.”

“Ms Elaine P., who has lived nearby for more than 50 years watches over this old African American burial ground and was worried that I was a "Ted Turner" type about to try to buy and develop this place. I talked to her for half an hour or so and explained the 21st century scavenger hunt concept and left her the first page of the cache printout. This is a rather large cemetery, hidden from the marshy inlet by a line of trees. In the African-American, Gullah, culture of this Island that harbored thousands of slaves before 1863, cemeteries were often located at the water, offering an easier opportunity for the Gods to take the deceased home to Africa. Ms. Peters encouraged me to keep looking -but her son is the Beaufort Chief of Police.”

“I would like to praise you for your efforts to spread the history of the area to all cachers.”

“beautiful Gardenias in bloom and Carolina Wren singing. Many stones and Conk Shells on graves.”

 

These logs are anything but disrespectful. The other logs were only brief (I don't know, maybe that's disrespectful?) I'm beginning to think that the 'bad apples' people are talking about are only figments of the imagination. After reading lots of cemetery logs, I don't think there's anything wrong with cemetery caches. It's my opinion that its a very valuable resource for teaching forgotten history and culture, as well as respect for others.

[+jimmyreno]

There are several multi's in the Reno area that start with a visit to a cemetery.

 

You look for a date or something on a headstone and it gives a clue for the next stage.

One popular one the "Grand Army of the Republic" cemetery, mostly Civil war veterans. Interesting history.

[+Team Cotati]

There are several multi's in the Reno area that start with a visit to a cemetery.

 

You look for a date or something on a headstone and it gives a clue for the next stage.

One popular one the "Grand Army of the Republic" cemetery, mostly Civil war veterans. Interesting history.

WOW!! Sorta kinda almost like a virtual cache. Imagine that.

[+Renegade Knight]

Tacky and disrespectful. And probably illegal as cemetaries are private property. And against caching rules about placing caches on private property without permission. But lots of cachers do it. Check you concience and if it bothers you don't do it.

If it has property taxing authority and I'm paying for it with my yearly property tax, how is that private? Some are private. Some are not. All have a cultural tradition that must be honored attached to them. If a person is not up to the task there are ways to move them should they desire for them to no longer be their resonsibility as a private owner.

 

Cemeteries are like about everthing else. Not as simple as it seems at first blush.

[+CharlieP]

I would not want to see a general rule that banned cemetery related geocaches. I especially enjoy caches with a historical theme, and I think that some geocaches can involve cemetery visits and not be an issue at all. Making more people aware of the importance of preserving old cemeteries is a good thing. Some examples of geocaches that took me to cemeteries and are IMHO beyond reproach:

 

Minutemen in Tucker

 

The Master

 

Van Dorn

 

I think a number of factors determine the appropriateness of these caches:

 

1) the tone of the cache page and the context of the cemetery visit in the cache hunt,

 

2) To what extent is the cemetery "public"? That question has some finer points, not just "who owns the real estate?" and "does the public have legal access?".

 

3) Is there a historical theme, or a theme of paying respect to a particular individual or group?

 

FWIW, CharlieP

[+IV_Warrior]

Most cemeteries are private property. Others are municipal property. Either way, you should probably get permission to hide within the cemetery. It's hard for me to imagine that such permission could be obtained in most cases.

Not hard for me to believe, I found a cemetary cche, hidden by AN EMPLOYEE of the cemetary....the log book said "stop by the office and chat with us if you'd like" or something like that.

[+Team Cotati]

Can you believe it? The owner(s) of a cemetary actually let an employee, a person well known to them and over whom they have a degree of influence and control, hide a cache on their property? I'd want further substantiation of such an outlandish assertion.

 

I have a question. You didn't intentionally use all caps there did ya sport?

Edited May 21, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+Alan2]

It's not the cacher who decides if his "hide" is respectable or not. Who are you to decide? What you think means nothing. It's the people who have paid to have their families buried there who decide whether it's proper or not. You're on private property. It's no different then if I came over to your property and decided to plant a cache in a tree stump on your land under the concept that I think it's a good idea. It will be a "wonderful" eperience for others who look for the cache to get to see a beautiful stream next to the stump. Your stream. Your stump. Did I ask you? No. Did you ask them?

 

As far as the idea that's they don't pay taxes and they're open to the public. Well so is a church but you have no right hiding a cache on church property without permission. It's still private!

[+Team HHD1]

Well. we will all end up in a grave yard at least once in our lives, or death... I'm sure the deceased appreciate the company. I'm really not being disrespectful, I just don't see anything wrong with it as long as the cache is OUTSIDE of the cemetary... I can't see doing one that is above a grave or anything... I never walk over a grave for respect to those who have lived their lives. It's the only thing they have left. ...But I can't see treating a graveyard as a taboo enviroment because dead folks lay there... It's not disrespectful to include a graveyard with a cache as long as it is done right.

 

The folks who used to live had a humorous adverturous side to them... I'm sure they still have it after their lives are over...

 

I guess the question you should ask yourself is: Would you really care if someone was looking around your grave site or graveyard searching for a cache for pleasure?

 

I honestly don't think you would care... especially if you've been saved and are finally HOME...

[nobby.nobbs]

i think the word respect is the most important one. no real problem with caching in graveyard as long as it's not on a grave. and pref on the side of a major path through ie no need to tiptoe through the graves.

 

then use discretion. it's a sad state of affairs but tobe honest how often do people actually revisit the graves to visit their dead relatives?? so not too likely to upset people (this is assuming permission given by relavent person)

 

i think i'm going to design a head stone formyself that has a cache in it!! atleast some bugger'll visit me once in a while and say hello. heck i'm serious now i've thought of it. it'll be a laugh.

[CoyoteRed]

Most cemeteries are private property.  Others are municipal property.  Either way, you should probably get permission to hide within the cemetery.  It's hard for me to imagine that such permission could be obtained in most cases.

Not hard for me to believe, I found a cemetary cche, hidden by AN EMPLOYEE of the cemetary....the log book said "stop by the office and chat with us if you'd like" or something like that.

Not hard for me to believe either. How's this for proof. This cache is inside the cemetery.

 

Another senior warden I spoke with was overjoyed that someone was doing something that would bring more visitors. This cache is not inside the cemetery because it is so small and intimate. You do get to walk through and read the very old markers and enjoy the history like the church being one of the few that survived the British soldiers during the revolution because it had the Royal Arms of Great Britian over the chancel.

 

I'd say before anyone dismisses the willingness of a warden to allow a cache in or near his ward, speak with him.

[+Renegade Knight]

It's not the cacher who decides if his "hide" is respectable or not. Who are you to decide? What you think means nothing. It's the people who have paid to have their families buried there who decide whether it's proper or not. You're on private property. It's no different then if I came over to your property and decided to plant a cache in a tree stump on your land under the concept that I think it's a good idea. It will be a "wonderful" eperience for others who look for the cache to get to see a beautiful stream next to the stump. Your stream. Your stump. Did I ask you? No. Did you ask them?

 

As far as the idea that's they don't pay taxes and they're open to the public. Well so is a church but you have no right hiding a cache on church property without permission. It's still private!

Where I agree with you is that perception is reality. The words "Trading trinkets on a grave" are not something geocachers do, but the perception is there and there is a harm in that. Others will decide what they will and if they decide that something is disrespectful, then that's what they decided. It may or may not be correct. If I decide the Jewish custom of leaving a stone to mark your visit is disresepctful it changes nothing about the fact that it isn't, or the fact that I've just made an a** of myself.

 

If a cemetery is on private property and by that I mean no public access on the back forty of the Rockefeller estate, then yes don't even think about going there. Most all other cemeteries are public. The public is invited no ifs ands or buts.

 

My comment on the tax was about paying property tax to support your local public cemetery. Cemeterys and churches are two different things. A cemetery is almost always a traditional cultural place. That means we public have an interest in the cemetary and access to it for our purposes. You don't have to agree witht that but it's a very true statement. If you think that your purchase of a plot for your aunt Bertha makes that a 6' no trespassing zone, you should of worked out a deal in the Rockefeller cemetery. I assure you Bertha had friends you never knew who want to and who have every right to pay their respects in their own way. Right down to placing a Saxaphone themed cache because she played Saxaphone at her church and at weddings all her life and it was what she lived for.

 

To borrow your own words. Who are you to decide it's anything but respectful?

 

In general though I agree that a cache should not be near a grave itself. Cemetery grounds are normally large enough to have suitable locations or they would not also attract Chapels for worship or public functions, joggers, art displays, bikers etc.

 

The one thing to keep in mind is that a cemetery is typical a Traditonal Cultural Place for many reasons.

[+Chuy!]

Tacky and disrespectful.  And probably illegal as cemetaries are private property.  And against caching rules about placing caches on private property without permission.  But lots of cachers do it.  Check you concience and if it bothers you don't do it.

Placing a cache on most supermarket parking lots is technically against the rules too, as these lots are on private property that allow public access to conduct business. Placing and/or finding a cache is not conducting business in itself, so technically, you'd be tresspassing if you are present only to hide/visit a cache. But what about if you are going to go shopping and decide to hide and/or visit a cache?

 

Anyone can go to most cemetaries to visit any grave. Even at Arlilngton Cemetary as I found out. Even though there are signs at Arlington cemetary prohibiting pedestrian traffic in certain areas, I found out (from a grounds official) that as long as you are headed to a specific grave site, you can "ignore" the warnings. The signs are meant to curtail short-cutting across graves.

 

OK, enough of the private property issue.

 

Have any of you [against caches in cemetaries] been to a cemetary on Mother's Day or Father's Day, or other major holiday? I don't know about cemeteries across the country, but in the few I have visited in the San Diego area on holidays, it's like a party! Short of a mariachi band and jumper for the kiddies, I have seen barbecues, canopies, [not so loud] music, etc...

 

The cemetary hides I have visited in my area are all in good taste. None, including one I own, are on or around graves; they are in walls, fence, etc... Mine (a log-only micro) is on a gun turret on display as a memorial that children like to play on.

[The Junkyard Dogs]

I think that as long as it is a public access cemetary then it is far to place them there. Then again you must use some common sense when hidding the cache. We went to look for one at an abandoned pet cemetary. It was film canister in a hollow tree. No hinderance of the site was needed.

[The Junkyard Dogs]

If the only rules about caching are such as found on there bill, it does not hinder caching. However, it may violates peoples freedoms. I do however agree that arceological sites are not the place for caches. Unecessary traffic in these areas can hinder the integrity of items that might be found. I would love to visit one of these sites, but I would feel bad if I messed up and potential artifacts.

[+briansnat]

Will I visit cemetaries again for their historic and cultural value, of course. I did this before I ever owned a GPSr and will continue to do so.

 

So you will continue to intrude on private property at all hours and trample graves to satisfy your prurient curiousity? Amazing.

[+badlands]

In support of future generations of geocachers, I’ll go on record supporting cemetery caching at my future residence wherever and whenever that is.

 

Are we concerned about “respect for the dead” or “respect for the living”? I agree that it would be in poor taste to place a cache or seek a cache while a memorial service is in progress but if a cemetery is a place for remembrance than bringing people to that place is a positive thing.

 

As a kid, we used to play capture the flag in the local cemetery after dark. I hope that future generations will continue that tradition after I’ve been planted (I’ll be dead so it won’t bother me).

 

Defacing, destroying or trespassing would be wrong for any cache location and not just cemeteries.

[TCE]

A family I know takes picnic lunches to eat at cemetaries. It was a tradition for them, and now their daughter planted a letterbox at the cemetary they always ate Sunday Afternoon Picnics at! There is a micro-cache there too, but I don't think they knew about that when the box was planted.

[+dafunk22]

Will I visit cemetaries again for their historic and cultural value, of course. I did this before I ever owned a GPSr and will continue to do so.

 

So you will continue to intrude on private property at all hours and trample graves to satisfy your prurient curiousity? Amazing.

 

Sarcasm irritates me. It is much better when people say what they mean.

 

I have not formed and opinion on cemetary caches. I have done them in the past and see no problem with RESPECTFULLY visiting a cemetery. I have even read the tombstones of people I don't know. I live just north of SC so that topic has been on my mind, but it is interesting to read what others think and have experienced, without just putting them down with a nasty remark.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Well, after logging a cemetary cache today, I encountered a sign that stated this:

 

"Do not open any grave without prior permission from Smith Cemetary Association."

 

Holy cow! They have a problem with folks opening graves?!?!?

I can name you one local cemetery that has had severe problems with people disturbing the graves. It is off the beaten path, so to speak. I found it very sad that someone has put a multi starting at this cemetery.

[+Harry Dolphin]

The parallel with off-roading is this:

 

The vast majority of OHV users are responsible users. They stay on marked trails, and obey all laws and regulations govering their activity. Every once in a while, someone decides that the trails and roads are not exciting or challenging enough, or whatever, and they choose to deviate from those prescribed routes. This upsets other users, and the agency concerned is forced to take action. Thise usually results in MORE restriction on ALL OHV users, never LESS. And the crappy thing is, that those who are most hurt by it are those who keep the rules. The ones who break the rules will most likely just go right on breaking them, and making it progressively harder and harder for other enthusiasts to enjoy OHV use, as the remaining trails become more crowded and farther apart.

 

I think you can pretty well substitute "cachers" for "ohv users" in this statement, and "lands" for "trails and routes," and see the issue at hand.

Not to open a can of worms, but I find this curious. New Jersey has almost no land open to off-road vehicles. All land is owned by someone or a company or state agency. One can only use such land with the permission, and under the regulations of the owner of that land. "Oh, I didn't know this was a state park" doesn't seem responsible to me. You have to know who's land you are using, and what the regulations are. I wonder where the owners of all these off-road vehicles in New Jersey think that they can drive them? I''ve seen many trails ruined by them.

The vast majority of off-road vehicle users here are irresponsible.

[+dafunk22]

I wonder where the owners of all these off-road vehicles in New Jersey think that they can drive them?

Here is one website I found in a quick search http://www.njorvp.org/ for the NJ ORV Park. Here are some more on a different site. Off-Highway Vehicle Trails

 

The Boondock Blazers is a 4WD club based in New Jersey with events, photos, and contacts: http://www.orbitdevelopment.com/boondock/

 

Off-Road.com has motorized route descriptions and photos in the Pine Barrens- Wharton State Forest: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/travels/pine-barrens.html

 

For more 4X4 Trails in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey: http://www.4X4NOW.com/trnjpb.htm

 

The ATV Connection describes several places to ride ATVs: http://www.atving.com/tmpl/ridearea/maride.cfm

 

I live in eastern NC where it is challenging to find places to drive my jeep off road too, but

 

This is off topic, so back to cemetery caches ...

[+briansnat]

I can name you one local cemetery that has had severe problems with people disturbing the graves. It is off the beaten path, so to speak. I found it very sad that someone has put a multi starting at this cemetery.

 

So are you accusing geocachers of disturbing graves? If you are, I think its important that you report this to the authorities. They can probably use the cache logs to help track down the culprits and prosecute them.

 

If you aren't making an accusation to that effect, but are only concerned that the coordinates of the site are now on the Internet, I submit to you that this may be a good thing. What better way to protect a place than there being the possibility of decent citizens (e.g. geocachers) showing up at any hour.

 

I'm sure that the existence of a geocache in a cemetery would not be on most cemetery vandal's top ten favorite things list.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I can name you one local cemetery that has had severe problems with people disturbing the graves. It is off the beaten path, so to speak. I found it very sad that someone has put a multi starting at this cemetery.

 

So are you accusing geocachers of disturbing graves? If you are, I think its important that you report this to the authorities. They can probably use the cache logs to help track down the culprits and prosecute them.

 

If you aren't making an accusation to that effect, but are only concerned that the coordinates of the site are now on the Internet, I submit to you that this may be a good thing. What better way to protect a place than there being the possibility of decent citizens (e.g. geocachers) showing up at any hour.

 

I'm sure that the existence of a geocache in a cemetery would not be on most cemetery vandal's top ten favorite things list.

This cemetery had severe problems long before the cache was placed there. We all know that geocachers are honest, and the salt of the earth!

I doubt that one cacher a week, or month, is going to discourage anyone.

But it struck me that this was a bad choice of placement, even though the marked trail goes very near the cemetery.

Just my opinion.

[Mvillian]

There is a right way and a wrong way, every situation is different I would not want to put a container in an active cemetery but i see nothing wrong with a cache near a old,historic,abandoned,destroyed,forgotten,littered cemetery! Cachers are some of the few people who visit these areas that appreciate it and are not there for things such as dumping, doing drugs or other unspeakable things I really wish the lawmakers would concentrate on getting the people responsable for dumping and destruction in lots of cemeterys in the state like hereMontrose

[+StarBrand]

Placed on, in or among the headstones (without explict permission of the family) - bad form and mostly inappropriate. Placed along the edges or using a marker for final coords out of the cemetary - I have no problem with that.

 

I intend my headstone to have room for a cache (seriously) so my permission is granted. Hopeful be a very long time before anybody logs that one!!!

[+Jeep_Dog]

I, for one, am absolutely amazed that this very grave subject has not died on this message board and been buried on a second or even third page.

 

Good grief.

[RandLD]

Hope this doesn't seem too off-topic ...

 

We decided to go on a picnic this weekend, and we decided to go to a place we hadn't visited before, just to do something different. There's a small park in the area we'd seen and heard of but never visited, so we went there to check it out.

 

We were quite surprised to find that, next to the playground and spraypool, there was a small cemetery! It was fenced in, but it was right in the middle of the park! Some of the gravestones dated to the late 1800's and early 1900's, so I'm guessing the cemetery was there long before the playground and picnic tables were added (unless they were relocated for some reason), but it struck us as odd to think that people could be running around, throwing frisbees, laughing, and playing in a place like this. Felt a little weird to be picnicing there, but it gave me a different perspective on things.

 

From the looks of it, this is an old, somewhat abandonned (and somewhat poorly maintained) cemetery, not one where there will be any new burials or even one where you would expect to see mourners frequently, but it was still interesting to note that there's still a place around that's designed as both a place to honor the departed and to play.

 

Just found that interesting ...

[CoyoteRed]

The oddest place I've ever seen a cemetery is the entrance of a Wal-mart.

[+The Leprechauns]

Ditto that, CR. One of my favorite cemetery caches was in the middle of a shopping center parking lot. A micro was tastefully placed in a manner such that I did not have to leave a paved path to find it. I enjoyed looking at the headstones for the founding families of the town that grew up around the cemetery.

 

[+PlasteredDragon]

I, for one, am absolutely amazed that this very grave subject has not died on this message board and been buried on a second or even third page.

 

Good grief. 

Obviously, it's an issue that some people feel strongly about. Personally, I think it isn't the dead you need to worry about showing respect for, it is the living. Some guy 100 years dead isn't going to care if you snap a picture of his headstone.

 

Geocaching in a cemetery, if done properly, is little more than walking around. So do it properly, or don't do it at all. Be discreet. If there are mourners nearby, don't walk over graves and snap pictures. People are nosy--they won't mind their own business--it's not going to matter to them who's grave you are treading upon.

 

Provided the cache itself is not near any graves, I have no problem with the idea of geocaching in a cemetery. I think rooting around in a shrub next to a headstone for a micro is just all-around bad. I think if one is going to start snapping pictures of graves and putting them up on the internet, one should take the appropriate precautions and retouch the image to obscure all the identifying demographics except perhaps the surname (if the surname is the point of the image). Mortuary art *is* interesting, and some headstones are beautiful. It's reasonable to want to share such images.

 

Use your judgement as to what others would likely think. Don't just ask yourself what *you* would think if you saw someone rooting around momma's grave, or snapping pictures of her headstone to put up on the 'net as if she were some sort of tourist attraction. Ask yourself, "what would most people think?"

 

Cemeteries are typically dual purpose. They have visitors that come there for the primary purpose--to mourn the dead, visit graves of relatives. And then they have visitors that come there for other secondary reasons--to enjoy the scenery, to walk or jog, etc. Arguing that geocaching should not take place there because it isn't the primary purpose of the cemetary seems a little inane to me.

 

There's a wonderful cemetery near me, and the whole neighborhood uses it for walking and jogging. In the very center is a small wooded section where there are no graves. This would probably be a good spot for a cache. If your favorite cemetery doesn't have an area that is a good 80 feet from any graves, then stick to virtuals or offset caches there.

[+briansnat]

The oddest place I've ever seen a cemetery is the entrance of a Wal-mart.

How about this one:

 

 

Here it is a few years ago:

 

 

Yes it is a virtual cache.

[+Jeep_Dog]

I, for one, am absolutely amazed that this very grave subject has not died on this message board and been buried on a second or even third page.

 

Good grief. 

Obviously, it's an issue that some people feel strongly about. Personally, I think it isn't the dead you need to worry about showing respect for, it is the living. Some guy 100 years dead isn't going to care if you snap a picture of his headstone.

 

I have done 4 or 5 cemetary caches, and observed all were done tastefully. My experience so far is that if they are done tastefully and with thought when being placed, cemetary caches are very appropriate. All the ones I have completed except for one, by the way, are in cemetaries no longer being managed by anyone. These caches certainly have their place.

 

Pay no heed to my little statement you quoted. That is just my dead-pan humor seeping through...

[+MOphoto]

I just completed my first cemetery cache. I put some serious thought into whether or not I wanted to participate. It is a multi stage night cache, and previous logs gave rave reviews of the hide. I finally decided to go after it, and completed it just a couple of evenings ago.

 

The cache requires you to find dates on headstones in a VERY old section of the cemetery. All of the markers, as well as the final container, were very near the road winding through the area, so very little wandering about was required. Overall I'd have to agree with the comments of others. This cache was very well done, lots of thought went into both the hide and how to do it while maintaining the decorum needed in these areas.

 

Another cemetery cache I'm currently working on assigns point values to several burial sites scattered around this general area. Once you have found answers that are needed for enough points to complete the challenge, answers are e-mailed to the cache owner, who then approves your find. Again, all of them I've found so far have been in little used cemeteries, or areas of them. One was even a family pet buried in a cemetery designed especially for them.

 

I would have to say that as cachers we have the ability to self police more effectively than any rules could. If caches are done poorly, or in poor taste, the logs should reflect this. Just DON'T find them!!! I really feel that if that is the case these caches will die on their own, as well as discourage others like them.

 

These areas have special meaning which differs from person to person. We need to keep these in mind. Rules are only meant for those that are willing to abide by them anyway. We can only control ourselves, not others who willingly disregard rules and laws.