The South Carolina Pandora's Box?

[+Jerseytrex]

Apparently there are certian officials in South Carolina who believe that geocachers are vandals that desecrate public lands and historic landmarks. They are now passing new laws forbidding caching in most of the parks throughout the area of Charleston including most if not all of the city itself due to it's historic nature. Well most of the east coast cities are full of history. Will this begin a future trend hurting the sport/game/lifestyle of geocachers?

 

Yeah I have heard some say there needs to be some sort of lobbyist group formed for caching.

I agree, but I think it's Groundspeak's responsibility to start that.

Also, whats wrong with Garmin or Magellan stepping up to the plate? After all, it will effect their pocket books if caching becomes limited to a large extent. They should be leaning on those same important people that portect other outdoors enthusiasts rights. Such as the snowmobilers and the ATV's and Hunters all over the country. I can see it now, we will all be driving to our local sport outfitters to pick up our geocaching licenses every spring.

[+briansnat]

One of the reasons that so many people outside SC are joining in the fight is because these kinds of laws tend to spread. Legislators by their very nature like to legislate. When they see another state passing laws they think "Well South Carolina banned it, so maybe its something we should look into".

 

The last thing a legislator wants to be called is a "do nothing" (personally I think that should be the highest complilment you can give a legislator), so they love to pass bills. Laws like this where they can brag that they "protected" something, but affect relatively few people are particularly attractive.

 

So if you haven't helped out with the efforts in SC, please do. Write a letter. Let them know that the law could cause you to seek out other states for your geocaching vacations. Tell them how much you spend on hotel rooms (if applicable) cache goodies, food, gas, supplies, etc... Explain how geocaching brings you to interesting places that you might never have otherwise visited.

 

Since you aren't a constituent, the tourism board and chambers of commerce would be the best target.

 

Here are some names:

Chad Prosser, Director

South Carolina Dept. of Parks, Recreation & Tourism

(803) 734-0166 Fax: (803) 734-1409

cprosser@scprt.com

 

Phil Hamby, Coordinator of Legislative Affairs

South Carolina Dept. of Parks, Recreation & Tourism

(803) 734-0139 Fax: (803) 734-0670

phamby@scprt.com

 

South Carolina Chamber of Commerce

grassroots@scchamber.net

803-799-4601

1201 Main Street

Suite 1700

Columbia, SC 29201

 

South Carolina Small Busniess Chamber of Commerce

1717 Gervais Street

Columbia, SC 29201

phone:

803.252.5733

fax:

803.799.0678

E-mail

 

South Carolina Black Chamber of Commerce

2340 Avenue F

North Charleston, SC 29405

(843) 554-6204

 

These two are from the sponsors home area:

 

Beaufort Regional Chamber of Commerce

1106 Carteret Street

Mailing address: PO Box 910

Beaufort, SC 29901

Fax: (843) 986-5405

president@beaufortsc.org

 

Beaufort County Black Chamber of Commerce

Post Office Box 754

Beaufort, South Carolina 2990

Phone: 843-986-1102

Fax: 843-379-8027

E-mail: BCBCC259@islc.ne

Edited May 17, 2005 by briansnat

[+Team DEMP]

Here's some info on it and a couple of comments by others:

 

http://www.levinecentral.com/cachingcentral_wp/?p=143

[Keystone]

Unless this discussion focuses on any ripple effects in the Northeast states, it's a duplicate of the long-running threads in the Geocaching Topics forum.

 

I'll start the effort to keep things on-topic to this forum. Those of you in my review territory know that, for several months, I've been leaving notes on all new cemetery caches, asking the cache owner to please confirm how the cache is hidden, and to say that it's a respectable distance away from any grave plots/headstones. If the cache is close to an individual plot, I'll be looking to see clear proof of permission from the plot owner or the cemetery caretaker/owner.

 

Woods, walls and other borders beyond the burial area of a cemetery are a safe, respectable place for a cache. If you want to focus someone's attention on an individual headstone, make an offset, multi or puzzle cache.

 

My "crackdown" preceded the South Carolina legislation. I've had excellent cooperation from cache hiders on this issue. Frequent hiders now know to include the information in a "Note to Reviewer" when submitting their cache, thereby reducing delay.

 

I do not want one of "my" review states to see a repeat of what's happening in South Carolina.

[+Team DEMP]

Unless this discussion focuses on any ripple effects in the Northeast states, it's a duplicate of the long-running threads in the Geocaching Topics forum.

So what if we're discussing it here too? Is there some server space limit we're approaching and need to type shorter words?

 

---------------------------------

 

There's a cache in Rockland County that was a multi but has been switched to a traditional cache. It's called Sloatsbone and I didn't see anything wrong with it. It's in a very old cemetery that's publicly accessible. The cache doesn't require any trampling of graves. It's just the location of where the container is.

 

I'm sure there are others in the area, so post them if you're aware.

[+Perfect Tommy]

There was another cemetery cache in Rockland but it was moved by other geocachers who had family buried in the cemetery. The cache has been in limbo ever since. Many cemeteries are private property, not public parkland so, if you're placing a physical cache, you'll need permission.

 

EDIT: I just don't get South Carolina. First, they fire on Fort Sumter and now this. Where's William Tecumseh Sherman when you need him?

Edited May 17, 2005 by Perfect Tommy

[Keystone]

Unless this discussion focuses on any ripple effects in the Northeast states, it's a duplicate of the long-running threads in the Geocaching Topics forum.

So what if we're discussing it here too? Is there some server space limit we're approaching and need to type shorter words?

From the Forum Guidelines linked at the top left of the page:

 

Posting Messages: Posting the same message to many topics or boards is considered spam. Duplicate messages will be deleted or consolidated by our moderators. Please do your best to post new topics to the appropriate forum board, moderators will move topics that are posted inappropriately.

I thank everyone for respecting my efforts to ensure that this section of the Forum Guidelines is followed. The discussion here must relate to geocaching in the Northeast, which is the subject of this forum. Thanks.

[avroair]

I can't think of any active geocaches in Northern New Jersey that involve cemeteries. Can anyone think of any?

 

I remember a virtual in Pennslyvania.

[+Team Bam Bam]

I can't think of any that involve cemetaries. I can think of plenty that are near historic places of interest. In each case the cache was placed in a manner such that the location would be unharmed by caching.

 

The exception to this was in the early spring in Central Park. We were there for 'The Gates' and, of course, grabbed a few caches. One of the caches on our list was called 'Strawberry Fields'. The problem was that the area of the park containing Strawberry Fields was fenced off due to re-seeding the area. We decided to come back when it was available again but there were many, many cachers who simply hopped the fence and grabbed the cache anyway.

 

While most caches are set up in such a way that any sensitive areas nearby are not harmed, the only sure way to account for a complete lack of common sense is not to place caches in this type of area. It is a slippery slope, indeed, but it's possible to see both sides of the argument.

[+Perfect Tommy]

I'm sure there are others in the area, so post them if you're aware.

Assuming this thread is not Jersey-centric (although this forum in general is), here are some cemetery caches on the other side of the Hudson that I am aware of:

 

In Sleepy Hollow Cemetery in Tarrytown, NY:

 

Headless Horseman Cache (Regular)

 

Knickerbocker Boneyard (Multi)

 

In Gate of Heaven, Mt. Pleasant, NY:

 

The Sultan of Swat (Virtual)

 

In Assorted Cemeteries in Darien, CT:

 

Darien Cemetary Cache (Multi)

 

Drewsclift Cemetery near Brewster, NY:

 

Wish You Were Here (Regular)

 

and Woodlawn Cemetery, Bronx, NY:

 

Mourning Lady (Virtual)

 

Check out the pictures for the Sultan of Swat virtual at Babe Ruth's grave - wonder how that would fly in South Carolina.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Perfect Tommy

[avroair]

They don't look bad at all. People pay homage to Ruth all the time and take photos.

[+lakelady]

There was a multi-cache in Mahwah called the Sopranos and the first stage required you to get some numbers from a headstone in the Darlington Cemetary. It has been archived tho. I loved doing The Sultan of Swat.

Edited May 17, 2005 by lakelady

[+BMSquared]

How about Cemetary Stumper in Montclair or Bloomfield. It is an active cemetary cache. I think it was tastefully done.

[avroair]

How about Cemetary Stumper in Montclair or Bloomfield. It is an active cemetary cache. I think it was tastefully done.

 

That one is the closest to my house, can't believe I forgot about it!!!

[+Jerseytrex]

I thank everyone for respecting my efforts to ensure that this section of the Forum Guidelines is followed. The discussion here must relate to geocaching in the Northeast, which is the subject of this forum. Thanks.

The original question if I am not mistaken of my own writing was, will the South Carolina problem happen HERE. "Here" being, The Northeast.

I have not copy and pasted a single word written in any other room so you are jumping the gun.

This is a topic that every region of the country should talk about because it could affect all of us.

Thank you for understanding my intentions.

[Keystone]

Your original post never asked whether the problem would happen "here"... it never used the word "here" at all. It was for the most part a general discussion of the South Carolina issue and how to lobby effectively against that. Those subjects are being discussed in the Geocaching Topics forum because they are of broader interest. I am happy to keep this topic open to discuss the effects of that proposed legislation on our own activities here in the Northeast states. Carry on.

[+Jerseytrex]

Your original post never asked whether the problem would happen "here"... it never used the word "here" at all.  It was for the most part a general discussion of the South Carolina issue and how to lobby effectively against that.  Those subjects are being discussed in the Geocaching Topics forum because they are of broader interest. I am happy to keep this topic open to discuss the effects of that proposed legislation on our own activities here in the Northeast states.  Carry on.

"Well most of the east coast cities are full of history. Will this begin a future trend hurting the sport/game/lifestyle of geocachers? sad.gif

 

Yeah I have heard some say there needs to be some sort of lobbyist group formed for caching.

I agree, but I think it's Groundspeak's responsibility to start that.

Also, whats wrong with Garmin or Magellan stepping up to the plate? After all, it will effect their pocket books if caching becomes limited to a large extent. They should be leaning on those same important people that portect other outdoors enthusiasts rights. Such as the snowmobilers and the ATV's and Hunters all over the country. I can see it now, we will all be driving to our local sport outfitters to pick up our geocaching licenses every spring."

Edited May 18, 2005 by Jerseytrex

[avroair]

Yes, this could pose a serious problem. Is GC.com planning anything or are they taking the sidelines on this one too.

[+Renegade Knight]

In one form or another the question will come up. In regulation happy states you can expect it to be regulated in one form or another.

[+Team J&J]

Hmmm...I wonder what the ramifications would be if historic places in Washington, DC fell under such a bill. That would put a spotlight on this issue.

[Keystone]

Yes, this could pose a serious problem. Is GC.com planning anything or are they taking the sidelines on this one too.

If you read the thread in the main forum you can see how Jeremy and Hydee are actively involved in the South Carolina matter. As for lobbying, etc., it's a company with fewer than ten employees, working out of a second-floor loft. The efforts are necessarily informal. Groundspeak communicates with land managers every day of the week, but lobbying legislatures is a whole different matter.

 

Please feel free to ask questions in the main forum thread if you're interested in this particular aspect of the debate.

[Keystone]

Hmmm...I wonder what the ramifications would be if historic places in Washington, DC fell under such a bill. That would put a spotlight on this issue.

Since so much of D.C. is managed by the National Park Service (the Mall, etc.), there are not a lot of physical caches in questionable areas. They never get listed.

 

Once the new solution for virtual and locationless caches goes live, GPS gaming in a place like the Washington Mall will, hopefully, be more robust than ever.