Geocaching : A Caucasian Sport?

May 25, 2005

One of the ideas I was trying to get at was whether the photos on the home page are more of an asset or liability to the site. Other competing sites do not use them, either because they choose not to, or haven't figured out how to do it with the resources they have.

I do not believe that Geocaching.com ever intended to make a statement by adding that feature. I also do not believe that Geocachining.com either promotes or discourages the participation of particular groups of people. I believe the feature was added to differentiate the site from its competitors.

The photos are attractive but in some ways also make apparent the lack of diversity among the general Geocaching population. Working for a corporation that prides itself on cultural diversity, I do feel somewhat embarrassed by those photos. I also understand the actions of a corporation which supports this site yet needs also to demonstrate to the greater society that it promotes diversity.

My point is that adding the photos has not come without its price, a price which may be somewhat higher than expected.

2.6k · May 25, 2005

My point is that adding the photos has not come without its price, a price which may be somewhat higher than expected.

I'll bet you're a boatload of fun at a party.

21.9k · May 25, 2005

There have been two posts recently that constitute personal attacks and add nothing to the discussion. By and large, the thread has stayed relatively civil. Let's keep it that way. Thanks.

May 25, 2005

The photos are attractive but in some ways also make apparent the lack of diversity among the general Geocaching population. Working for a corporation that prides itself on cultural diversity, I do feel somewhat embarrassed by those photos. I also understand the actions of a corporation which supports this site yet needs also to demonstrate to the greater society that it promotes diversity.

As a visible minority, I can assure you that I NEVER think about my race's representation when it comes to seeing images of causasians in photographs. It's just not something I think about. I'm used to seeing whites in the majority of depictions of people because historically (well, for the duration of my lifetime so far), that's the way it's been.

I don't mean to be offensive but if anyone thinks that Geocaching isn't right for them, it's more likely because they think it's a nerdy past time, and not because they don't see non-whites on the homepage photos.

In fact, if the photos depicted only young, attractive people, or all older people, or all poorly dressed people (ie: bubba-wear), I would be far more likely to draw a superficial conclusion about the participants in this sport. In fact, if it featured all blacks or all yellows or whatever, then I would probably draw a conclusion. But I am so used to whites being the majority that seeing a cross section of whites in the photos doesn't cause me to conclude that Geocaching is for caucasians or primarily involves causasians.

GeoBC

Edited May 25, 2005 by geobc

May 25, 2005

I don't understand why race or color or whatever is even an issue, period.

Can we not talk about it anymore (I mean societarily {word?}) not this thread. It's such an end to intelligent conversation.

Example one: When I am talking to someone I met recently, who doesn't know me well. This person can be any color, any background. If I don't know a person well and they bring up a racist remark, joke, statement, personal philosophy, in any way-- I am pretty much finished with viewing that person as a rational intelligent person worth conversing with.

Example two: When I am around anyone who uses their color, whatever it may be, as a talking point or an excuse for self-victimization.

I know people personally that use foul racially charged words and phrases regularly. It's quite disturbing and offensive. It causes me to PREJUDGE them.

I also know people who bring up their race all the time. Without getting specific they classify themselves as if it's US or THEM--racially speaking.

Can't we stop all of this and just revert to people?

Sorry if i've offended anyone. But it seems to me that America is pretty fair, and anyone, no matter their color, race, or background... can acheive anything they work hard for.

Edited May 25, 2005 by Marcie/Eric

1.8k · May 25, 2005

The photos are attractive but in some ways also make apparent the lack of diversity among the general Geocaching population. Working for a corporation that prides itself on cultural diversity, I do feel somewhat embarrassed by those photos. I also understand the actions of a corporation which supports this site yet needs also to demonstrate to the greater society that it promotes diversity.

My point is that adding the photos has not come without its price, a price which may be somewhat higher than expected.

I'd love to hear the source of the data you used to determine the above statements. Sorry, but as a logician by trade, I find it utterly absurd to draw such a sweeping conclusion based on nothing other than your own interpretation.

As a human being in my off-hours...when I go to the GC.com home page, I see people having fun and going to neat places. I don't see white people having fun and going to neat places.

May 25, 2005

The photos are attractive but in some ways also make apparent the lack of diversity among the general Geocaching population. Working for a corporation that prides itself on cultural diversity, I do feel somewhat embarrassed by those photos. I also understand the actions of a corporation which supports this site yet needs also to demonstrate to the greater society that it promotes diversity.

My point is that adding the photos has not come without its price, a price which may be somewhat higher than expected.

I'd love to hear the source of the data you used to determine the above statements. Sorry, but as a logician by trade, I find it utterly absurd to draw such a sweeping conclusion based on nothing other than your own interpretation.

As a human being in my off-hours...when I go to the GC.com home page, I see people having fun and going to neat places. I don't see white people having fun and going to neat places.

It wasn't a statement, neither was it a conclusion. It was an opinion and therefore, not necessarily subject to logical analysis. I am interested to know if others may see it the same way. I'm also interested to know if others don't see it the same way.

The point is that discussions of race are a part of our history and are very much a part of our current society. I'm interested in this topic because I work a lot with different cultures, cultures representing all parts of the globe. We know that cultures have different habits. In Europe, it provides a lot of fodder for discussion. I see this more in terms of cultural differences than the color of anyone's skin (although the latter can be a good indication of the former). There's nothing wrong with looking at those differences.

1k · May 25, 2005

Geocachers seemed to me to be disproprtionately caucasian long before the photos were added to the home page. I doubt that those photos have much effect one way or the other on the decision by non-whites to try geocaching. It's just an activity that seems to appeal more to whites than to other ethnic groups, although others are by no means excluded.

I think we have probably identified the factors that go into this.

May 25, 2005

Geocachers seemed to me to be disproprtionately caucasian long before the photos were added to the home page. I doubt that those photos have much effect one way or the other on the decision by non-whites to try geocaching. It's just an activity that seems to appeal more to whites than to other ethnic groups, although others are by no means excluded.

I think we have probably identified the factors that go into this.

Yes I am certain that you are right. I guess my point has more to do with welcoming future potential geocachers to the site. It has to do with the health of the sport as a whole. The more inclusive the sport can be, the larger it can grow and be viewed positively by society as a whole (a bit like the whole CITO thing. I see that also as a way to pursuade the public that Geocaching is not about trashing up the countryside with little plastic boxes, bits of paper, and trinkets)

May 25, 2005

It's just an activity that seems to appeal more to whites than to other ethnic groups, although others are by no means excluded.

I think it is appealing to anyone with a sense of adventure that likes the outdoors. As a matter of fact everyone of my friends likes the idea no matter what race or ethnic background. A few are going with me this weekend and I'm sure they all will start caching. :unsure:

May 25, 2005

I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. If I first saw the home page with pictures of only black people (without somehow being influenced by friends or colleagues), I would have made the assumtion that it was a "Black only" activity and browsed on (and I do enjoy Geocaching). If I saw mixed photos, I would not jump to that conclusion. I would wager I'm not too different from most other Caucasian surfers.

Edited May 25, 2005 by RakeInTheCache

1k · May 25, 2005

I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. If I first saw the home page with pictures of only black people, I would have made the assumtion that it was a "Black only" activity and browsed on ...

How many people do you think try geocaching because they stumble on the home page, vs. trying it because they heard about it from someone else?

I honestly think the factors that are most likely to cause someone to be attracted to geocaching are:

Being already involved in hiking, biking, camping, or other "outdoorsy" sports
Being inclined toward high-tech gadgets
Being web-savvy
Having at least lower-middle class income
Not caring too much if your friends think you're a weenie

I have no data to support my opinion, but I think that the people that fit this profile are disproportionately white males. By the way--plenty of white males do not match this profile, which is why some of my coworkers snicker when I try to explain geocaching (see bullet #5 above).

24.7k · May 25, 2005

I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. If I first saw the home page with pictures of only black people (without somehow being influenced by friends or colleagues), I would have made the assumtion that it was a "Black only" activity and browsed on (and I do enjoy Geocaching). If I saw mixed photos, I would not jump to that conclusion. I would wager I'm not too different from most other Caucasian surfers.

Here is my dirty little secret. There were no pictures on the front page when I joined the site. All I knew was that there was something hidden and I was going to look up the closest cache and find it.

Looking back if there was a photo on the front page showing a black family I'd of assumed from the looks on the kids face they were having fun, wondered what GPS they used, and looked up my closest cache and went to find it.

3.3k · May 25, 2005

Here is my dirty little secret. There were no pictures on the front page when I joined the site. All I knew was that there was something hidden and I was going to look up the closest cache and find it.

Looking back if there was a photo on the front page showing a black family I'd of assumed from the looks on the kids face they were having fun, wondered what GPS they used, and looked up my closest cache and went to find it.

Thank you.

I too joined the sport when there were no photos on the front page. I would have continued on regardless of how many "other races" were invloved in this sport.

I guess my point has more to do with welcoming future potential geocachers to the site.

Who gives a darn about potential, future cachers? If you want more cachers, start a campaign by holding signs on the street corner, or purchasing a booth at a recreational fair. Go to minority neighborhoods and start a grassroots drive to make Geocaching all inclusive. :unsure:

I do my part to promote the sport with my Geocaching.com license plate cover, and their signature logo sticker on both of my vehicles.

It has to do with the health of the sport as a whole.
The more inclusive the sport can be, the larger it can grow and be viewed positively by society as a whole.

That is nothing more than a bunch of socialist, utopian, crap. Again try my grassroots approach.

I see that also as a way to pursuade the public that Geocaching is not about trashing up the countryside with little plastic boxes, bits of paper, and trinkets)

This is a completely different topic. The topic was started because there are too many white cachers, in your opinion. How does the connection between too many whites, and caches being nothing more than geo litter come together.

Your going off on a tangent. More minority cachers will do nothing to change the opinion that caching is harmful to the enviroment.

Stop trying to save geocaching, it is evolving without your help.

38.2k · May 25, 2005

I guess my point has more to do with welcoming future potential geocachers to the site.

OK, lets say Geocaching.com tries to be "more welcoming" to non whites by putting black faces on the home page photos. Lets go as far as saying that out of the 100 photos (I'm making this number up) that rotate through in a day, they make 99 of them photos of black geocachers. What happens when a non white visits the site at the instant the one photo of whites is swapped in?

Edited May 25, 2005 by briansnat

20.7k · May 25, 2005

Here is my dirty little secret. There were no pictures on the front page when I joined the site. All I knew was that there was something hidden and I was going to look up the closest cache and find it. ...

While I totally agree with the spirit of your post, I am compelled to try to derail this thread...

Wasn't the pics of the little boy with the 'glass bottle' cache and the cute little girl with tupperware (brokenwing's daughter?) on the front page back then?

May 25, 2005

My point is that adding the photos has not come without its price, a price which may be somewhat higher than expected.

Are you kidding me?

This sport/hobbie seems to me to be completely indepentant of race, religion, what food you like, or what tv programs you watch - that's one of the great things about geocaching.

Everyone can play and you will never find a 'whites only' cache on gc.com.

9.4k · May 25, 2005

Granted, I can't actually see anyone through this monitor. It is my impression after looking at most of the posts in this thread, however, that the folks who have indicated they are not caucasian have no real problem with the photos, while the folks who (I assume) are caucasian have the biggest problem with it. Why is that?

BTW, we do have some minorities listed. In fact today we have a picture of a pirate. Arr matey.

Generally speaking the photos on the site are chosen from the recent uploaded images in the gallery. The fact of the matter is the majority of photos we see are from europeans. We take a realistic sampling of these photos daily to represent the people who are geocaching - from all walks of life.

If anything we may be doing a disservice by not profiling more of the crappy photos and for that I apologize. But affirmative action is kind of, well, lame, when it comes to images on the front page.

May 26, 2005

We've talked about this several times in my little racially diverse "lunch bunch." Usually after they're done rolling their eyes at my latest geo-adventure. :-) I've invited all of them to go with me... I think their not being into it (whites and non-whites) has a lot to do with: 1) it does seem kind of nerdy to them and not very cool, and 2) it's something that is very unfamiliar to them, plus their family and friends will think they've lost their mind just like they think I've lost mine. :unsure:

As a matter of fact we were talking about it again today because we ran into another friend (African-American) that already has a GPSr and has heard of geocaching (possibly from his friend that's in our lunch bunch - an African-American woman in her mid-40's... probably the most likely to try it out of the whole bunch). They kind of laughed at me again, partly because of my nerdy enthusiasm. Then they made some crack about the white folks taking them into the woods. Keep in mind that we talk very openly about race on a regular basis, so it was entirely good-natured ribbing and not really them being scared. We've talked about race in several contexts, not just geocaching - I've been to their churches and some of them have been to mine. In the case of those I've talked to, it's entirely about the 2 reasons I mentioned above because one of the black guys is very much an outdoorsy country boy who enjoys hunting, fishing, competition shooting, etc. In fact, he challenged me to find a picture of non-whites geocaching, which I did (Pocahontas cache in Mississippi also has some cache-cam pictures of non-whites - very interesting... 2 caches mentioned in this thread that have non-whites pictured caching are in Mississippi - probably not a place that a lot of folks would think of when they think diversity and open discussions about race).

As for the pictures on the front page, these folks I've talked to have made up their minds having never SEEN the gc.com page. I doubt it makes much difference either way - I think the pictures are a fabulous plus to the site because they show all kinds of people having FUN - lefties, righties, Italians, Poles, pickle-eaters, short-haired, vegetarians, meat-eaters, long-haired, nerds, techies, outdoorsmen and women, two-legged, four-legged, etc. DEFINITELY NOT A LIABILITY in my book.

All of this is very unscientific but is to say that the question posed is valid, and one that has been brought up more than once... in fact, the non-white folks in my little group posed it to me first.

24.7k · May 26, 2005

...While I totally agree with the spirit of your post, I am compelled to try to derail this thread...

Wasn't the pics of the little boy with the 'glass bottle' cache and the cute little girl with tupperware (brokenwing's daughter?) on the front page back then?

Ok you caught me. I completely forgot about that. I remember thinking "hey that's kinda cool" they way the pic changed when you moved your curser. Then I went and got skunked by my first cache. :unsure:

May 26, 2005

I would have continued on regardless of how many "other races" were invloved in this sport.

I guess my point has more to do with welcoming future potential geocachers to the site.

Who gives a darn about potential, future cachers? If you want more cachers, start a campaign by holding signs on the street corner, or purchasing a booth at a recreational fair. Go to minority neighborhoods and start a grassroots drive to make Geocaching all inclusive.

I do my part to promote the sport with my Geocaching.com license plate cover, and their signature logo sticker on both of my vehicles.

It has to do with the health of the sport as a whole.
The more inclusive the sport can be, the larger it can grow and be viewed positively by society as a whole.

That is nothing more than a bunch of socialist, utopian, crap. Again try my grassroots approach.

I see that also as a way to pursuade the public that Geocaching is not about trashing up the countryside with little plastic boxes, bits of paper, and trinkets)

This is a completely different topic. The topic was started because there are too many white cachers, in your opinion. How does the connection between too many whites, and caches being nothing more than geo litter come together.

Your going off on a tangent. More minority cachers will do nothing to change the opinion that caching is harmful to the enviroment.

Stop trying to save geocaching, it is evolving without your help.

Excellent points KF.

Jeremy hits the good one too on his first paragraph..

May 26, 2005

HEY EVERYONE I'M A NEW RACE CALLED A GEO-HUMAN, LIKE THAT I'M OMNI-RACIAL AND OMNI-POLITICAL SOME JOIN ME AS A NEW LIFEFORM WHO DOESNT NEED RACIAL BARRIERS OR POLITICAL STRIFE.................... I'M A GEO-CACHER AS A PROFESSSION, AND A GEO-HUMAN AS A PERSON.....WIDE WORLDY. HELLO!!! :anibad:

Edited May 26, 2005 by Mad Cat

1k · May 26, 2005

... It is my impression after looking at most of the posts in this thread, however, that the folks who have indicated they are not caucasian have no real problem with the photos, while the folks who (I assume) are caucasian have the biggest problem with it. Why is that?...

White liberal guilt.

It reminds me of when I worked at a university full of PC types. A new theater arts building was capped with an antique weather vane that depicted a Native American. Some of the (white) faculty immediately protested, saying that it was racially insensitive...blah, blah, blah. It became a big issue, and got in the local paper.

Some Narragansett indians were on campus one day for completely unrelated reasons, and were shown the weather vane and asked what they thought of it. "Nice weathervane", was the opinion. They had no problem with it.

EPILOGUE: The extensive publicity about the valuable antique weathervane resulted in it being stolen. It was eventually recovered from an antique shop. The last time I saw it, it was on display inside the building where it could be protected.

8k · May 26, 2005

It reminds me of when I worked at a university full of PC types. A new theater arts building was capped with an antique weather vane that depicted a Native American. Some of the (white) faculty immediately protested, saying that it was racially insensitive...blah, blah, blah. It became a big issue, and got in the local paper.

Some Narragansett indians were on campus one day for completely unrelated reasons, and were shown the weather vane and asked what they thought of it. "Nice weathervane", was the opinion. They had no problem with it.

EPILOGUE: The extensive publicity about the valuable antique weathervane resulted in it being stolen. It was eventually recovered from an antique shop. The last time I saw it, it was on display inside the building where it could be protected.

That would make a cool virtual cache. But that's a different thread :anibad:

May 26, 2005

Funny, when I look at the front page and see the Random Pic O' The Day, I see people (dogs, whatever) having fun geocaching. I don't see white people or black people or blue people or green people.

I couldn't tell you what color the people on TODAY'S page are, and I was just there a minute ago.

May 27, 2005

D & L Godet! They have been caching together since Sept. 27th, 2003. Same day I started. Coincidence! Anyway, we have biracial couples, too! Gotta love America! I know I do! They make a cute couple. I helped move some of there travel bugs and they have visited some of my caches. So who really cares about race anyway?! The whole *dadgum* (gotta love the forum sensors!) world is one big melting pot anyway! I am so fricking mixed that I can't totally track down what the heck I am!! I know I got a little Native American in me (I live on a reservation) so, I got that part. A little German, Irish, Italian, Polish, and who knows what else. Whatever! I guess that I am one of the few who doesn't care what I am because the only race I really belong to is the human race!!! If everyone had that mentality, the world would be a hell of alot better place to live in!!

Up until right now, I never realized that 'Italian' was a race. Polish yes but Italian?

So tell me, is asian a race? It's just telling everyone geographically where they come from! Is Pacific Islander a race? Geographically, again! Is Native American a race? Geographically, again! Polish is just telling us that they're from Poland, isn't it?! I ask you this, Name how many "actual races" there are in this world? You do that and miss one, someone will get pissed that you missed there's and let you know! Most races will just tell you geographics. Why don't we just narrow it down to just one. The Human race! Why don't we just talk color if it's so confusing for you. Black, white, brown, yellow, and mix some of those colors and you get different shades, so don't leave them out either, or someone will get mad.

24.7k · May 27, 2005

...I think we have probably identified the factors that go into this.

After reading this thread I think it's a fear of being seen as a dork. Some people are sensative to that label I guess. That would mean that geocachers are either dorks or people who really don't give a rats a** what other poeple think when it comes to their fun.

I guess I better qualify that as a factor in industrialized nations with a latin based alphabet. Do third world nations even have dorks or are dorks something that happens when the population leaves the farms?

3.9k · May 27, 2005

Cultural? Economic? Availability of spare time? ¿Quien sabe? I know of local Latino, Oriental and African-American cachers. But by far, the minority. (Is that the right word to use here?)

It's ASIAN people.

I have nothing else to say except "Love, Peace and Hair Grease"

Edited May 27, 2005 by JMBella

May 29, 2005

I believe the feature was added to differentiate the site from its competitors.

The photos are attractive but in some ways also make apparent the lack of diversity among the general Geocaching population. Working for a corporation that prides itself on cultural diversity, I do feel somewhat embarrassed by those photos. I also understand the actions of a corporation which supports this site yet needs also to demonstrate to the greater society that it promotes diversity.

My point is that adding the photos has not come without its price, a price which may be somewhat higher than expected.

If I may, I can't say that as far as GPS cache posting websites go, GC.com really HAS any competitors. I suppose maybe as much as Microsoft or DeBeers have competitors.

I have always been opposed to the idea of being politically correct for it's own sake. I prefer a world view which is representative of reality, not one that is watered down, candy coated and handicapped so that everyone "feels good about themselves." All men/women are NOT born with all the same opportunities, life is NOT fair, People are NOT always nice/honest/_______, as much as government and psychological weaklings would like to make it so. The idea of having to "manage the image" of an organization so that it LOOKS like it is a "model of diversity" is, in my mind an insult to the intellignce of those who are being artificially represented. It's like when you look at advertising literature, and they always have to have a Black person, a Hispanic, an Asian and a Caucasian on each and every page of the brochure...as if the entire world is actually broken down that way.

How about instead of crying and whining about "everyone getting their 'fair' representation," we stop looking at people's ethnicity and focus on the contribution they make to society?

As far as a "price" of having photos on the homepage...are you asserting that someone came to the Geocaching site, saw pictures of a bunch of white people at the top, and said "Oh, this is a white people's site, I guess I can't play?" Does anyone actually think that happens? And how long would someone so sensitive and emotionally fragile even last in geocaching (or most other arenas of life, I'd wager)? If in fact that HAS happened, I would submit that we are better off without them. There is enough whining already.

The fact is that, as an elective, leisure activity, there is NO way to increase diversity in the numbers, nor can the appearance of such be presented without artificially OVERrepresenting this group or that one in the geocaching population. The photos displayed come from a database of images that, to my understanding are randomly uploaded to the homepage. The only solution is to have NO photos at all, which is exactly the same logic that has removed prayer from schools, and now threatens to remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance and the Ten Commandments from public display. The other answer is to take all the photos that have people in them and separate them into ethnic groups, and write the generator so that it always has a photo on the page representing every ethnic group in the world. This is essentially what affirmative action does, and the interesting thing is, that it creates MORE racism...not less.

Edited May 29, 2005 by bunkerdave

1.8k · May 29, 2005

I hereby officially volunteer to never be shown on the front page in any image, thereby reducing the overwhelming number of caucasian photos available. If enough of us do this, it might work. I'm as white as a sheet, (so maybe I can count double) even though I have a bit of Cherokee in me. Mostly I'm German, English, Irish, Scottish. I apologise for that, but I couldn't help it.

May 29, 2005

How about instead of crying and whining about "everyone getting their 'fair' representation," we stop looking at people's ethnicity and focus on the contribution they make to society?

Because in many places in this country you would never get elected that way. :lol:

June 3, 2005

I am white, well a bit off white. I think of geocaching as a caucasian sport because, A) I am caucasian and I dont see or meet other geocachers, ever so for me its a solitary activity and I am white so ipso fatso, it must be a white only activity, invented only for me.

Wait, I take that back, I went to find a cache several counties away and it was apparently planted as part of local county geocache "poker run" game. I stopped to say hello to some of the other cachers, but they were very rude, abrupt and kinda mean. That moment made me glad that I didnt ever run into other geocachers.

Whatever.............

1k · June 3, 2005

I went to find a cache several counties away and it was apparently planted as part of local county geocache "poker run" game. I stopped to say hello to some of the other cachers, but they were very rude, abrupt and kinda mean. That moment made me glad that I didnt ever run into other geocachers.

Whatever.............

How can you be sure they were geocachers? Did they flash the secret hand sign?

:lol:

Seriously, I'm sorry you had a bad experience on one of your excursions but how is it related to the topic?

Are you trying to say the "lack of cultural diversity portrayed on the site" caused this incident?!

<_<

Also, does that mean the hispanic or black folks who geocache by themselves consider it a hispanic or black sport?

Edited June 3, 2005 by tabulator32

June 3, 2005

I think Caching is for anyone with a sense of adventure! no just caucasian sport. I think I know one girl who does it who is not caucasian.

Personal sig:

http://ZeldereX.com/?topic=70938

Edited June 3, 2005 by aragorn05

6.5k · June 3, 2005

Wait, I take that back, I went to find a cache several counties away and it was apparently planted as part of local county geocache "poker run" game. I stopped to say hello to some of the other cachers, but they were very rude, abrupt and kinda mean. That moment made me glad that I didnt ever run into other geocachers.

Whatever.............

You must have been in France. :lol:

Just kidding! <_<

I used to play a lot of golf. Occasionally I would go solo and get hooked up with strangers. Maybe half the time, I would swap #'s and say that was fun, let's get together again. Out of the hundreds of cachers I have met on the trails and events, I can think of only a small handful I wouldn't want to spend more time with. Go figure. :lol:

June 3, 2005

, Hey just thought I woudl say that ShoppingGirl and I are bi-racial couple and we love to cache.

1k · June 4, 2005

How funny. 'Same situation here and mine goes by Showgirl.

1.4k · June 4, 2005

Wow, this is becoming a long thread... I came up with a thought after reading some more posts here....

Do we really need to spend the effort to cater to people who prejudge the sport by the race/ethnicity of the photos posted in the web site?

If a person visited Geocaching.com, looked at the photos, and decided that he or she wasn't welcome here, maybe that person doesn't have enough sense of adventure to ultimately have fun here anyway? I wouldn't waste my time recruiting such people to Geocaching. Such a person might become future liability, spending more time criticizing racial issues here than spending time outdoors caching.

Edited June 4, 2005 by budd-rdc

June 4, 2005

I went through the front page the other day, and the pictures were of dogs, with no humans included! Imagine if a human were exploring Geocaching and saw that! They'd think that this is a dogs-only sport and would abandon it without checking into it any further.

When will we wake up, people?

June 5, 2005

If geocaching had been invented in the Republic of Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaidzhan, Chechnya, Ossetia, or Dagestan it would be a Caucasian sport since those countries lying within the Caucasus mountain range.

June 5, 2005

The first time in my life I met the word 'Caucasian' was 25 years ago when entering India and I had to fill in a form asking for my race (and also name/race/date of birth of my fathers mother and the like). I asked what to say and was told to write down 'Caucasian'. Never heard the word before in all my life in western Europe.

June 7, 2005

I guess we need to create more "ethnically correct" smileys.

Asian --> ?

Indian --> ?

African-American --> :rolleyes: ?

Unidentified ethnicity "second-to-find" cacher that is green with envy --> <_<

BTW, do you know (or do you care) what color my skin is? ... and no peeking at my photo gallery!

**edit: does my university care that they chose a Black Squirrel as an unofficial mascot? It just so happens that they are the majority of the squirrel population on campus!

Edited June 7, 2005 by TruFinds

24.7k · June 7, 2005

I guess we need to create more "ethnically correct" smileys.

Asian --> ?

Indian --> ?

African-American --> ?

Unidentified ethnicity "second-to-find" cacher that is green with envy --> ...

Anyone after one too many drinks at a cache event.

Edited June 7, 2005 by Renegade Knight

1.4k · June 7, 2005

I guess we need to create more "ethnically correct" smileys.

Unidentified ethnicity "second-to-find" cacher that is green with envy -->

You called the Martians "unidentified". I don't think they will be pleased.

1.4k · June 7, 2005

I'm personal friends with this geocacher:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e5...bf-9bd2a1109df4

I think it's safe to say that he might have to assimilate someone :rolleyes:

Here he was at one of our event caches:

Edited June 7, 2005 by jeff35080

1k · June 7, 2005

BTW, do you know (or do you care) what color my skin is? ...

No. And since nobody is excluded from geocaching, I feel no need to find a way to attract more non-caucs to the sport. There is no "problem" that needs fixing (in my opinion).

I was curious, however, as to why the sport seems to attract caucs in disproportionate numbers. I think we have explored that question just about as thoroughly as we can without some sort of scientific investigation.

8k · June 7, 2005

If geocaching had been invented in the Republic of Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaidzhan, Chechnya, Ossetia, or Dagestan it would be a Caucasian sport since those countries lying within the Caucasus mountain range.

That reminded me of a news report I heard after a terrorist attack in Moscow the police were arresting anyone who appeared to be Caucasian. Talk about racial profiling.

June 11, 2005

Granted, I can't actually see anyone through this monitor. It is my impression after looking at most of the posts in this thread, however, that the folks who have indicated they are not caucasian have no real problem with the photos,
BTW, we do have some minorities listed. In fact today we have a picture of a pirate. Arr matey.

Couple of remarks here. If I understand the argument correctly it is that :

Forum posters are a representative sample of potential newcomers to Geocaching.

Forum posters who are not Caucasian have indicated they do not have a problem with the the photos.

Therefore, all non-Caucasian members who might become Geocachers would not have a problem with the photos.

This is a fallacy because we have no way to judge whether the forum posters are really representative, and probably are not as we know there are far more Geocachers than forum posters.

while the folks who (I assume) are caucasian have the biggest problem with it. Why is that?

I think it's more correct to say that some folks who are caucasian have a problem with it. I don't find this remarkable. It only means that some people are able to walk in another's shoes.

the folks who have indicated they are not caucasian have no real problem with the photos

I believe you're overlooking the fact that some non-Caucasian posters were sensitive to being a minority in an overwhelmingly Caucasian sport.

Edited June 11, 2005 by RakeInTheCache

June 11, 2005

I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. If I first saw the home page with pictures of only black people, I would have made the assumtion that it was a "Black only" activity and browsed on ...

How many people do you think try geocaching because they stumble on the home page, vs. trying it because they heard about it from someone else?

I honestly think the factors that are most likely to cause someone to be attracted to geocaching are:

Being already involved in hiking, biking, camping, or other "outdoorsy" sports

Being inclined toward high-tech gadgets

Being web-savvy

Having at least lower-middle class income

Not caring too much if your friends think you're a weenie

I have no data to support my opinion, but I think that the people that fit this profile are disproportionately white males. By the way--plenty of white males do not match this profile, which is why some of my coworkers snicker when I try to explain geocaching (see bullet #5 above).

Well I didn't quite stumble on the page but did hear about the sport from someone who had heard about it in the media. I agree with your profile of the geocacher, however someone who fits the profile might be turned off if they fealt the sport was not inclusive (which could be misunderstood from the lack of diversity in the photos).

June 11, 2005

I too joined the sport when there were no photos on the front page. I would have continued on regardless of how many "other races" were invloved in this sport.

Couple of remarks. The topic is not about many races participating in the sport. It's about the dominance of one race in the sport.

Who gives a darn about potential, future cachers?

My impression is that Geocaching.com would like to thrive, not just survive. In which case the growth of the sport would be necessary.

That is nothing more than a bunch of socialist, utopian, crap.

I fail to see the link betweent the topic and "socialist, utopian, crap". Our country was founded on the principle of creating a better world/place for it's people. Wishing to improve the world is an admirable activity.

This is a completely different topic. The topic was started because there are too many white cachers, in your opinion. How does the connection between too many whites, and caches being nothing more than geo litter come together.

O.K. to clarify. CITO is a concession to help explain/demonstrate to the public who might otherwise be mislead into thinking that the sport was something it wasn't.

Posting a diverse racial mix of photos woud also communicate to the public, in a similar manner, that the sport did not promote racial exclusivity. It's a misperception that could be interpreted from the photos. This is not a tangent but has a clear connection to the argument.

Stop trying to save geocaching, it is evolving without your help.

Are you suggesting I should not be concerned about my hobby? Sorry but I disagree with you.

Geocaching : A Caucasian Sport?

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