Geocaching : A Caucasian Sport?

May 17, 2005

The picture of the Four Children (Third Post from the top) are not Cachers they are Gang Bangers (Three are flashing Gang signs)

That picture needs to be Pulled

That makes me sort of angry that you would say that so outright. Fine. Here is the cache page. Take a look-see at the picture links on the page. I'm there, so are the kids (in the "unknown #18" pic). The cache owner showed me the pics fresh from the developers before they were posted. This is an out-of-the-way cache, and is very unlikely to be accidentilly discovered.

Plymouth Bluff

Plymouth Bluff cache in Columbus, MS.

May 17, 2005

Geocaching may also not be as popular among African-Americans due to lack of knowledge of the sport.

The best analogy I could make is look what Tiger Woods did for the sport of golf for African Americans.

And phillipinos too! Hardly anyone mentions that he's half phillipino. All that they focus on is he's black. He's a product of the "melting pot". So, I guess that you could say that he brought the sport of golf to the Phillipines, too? I would say so! Cool!

May 17, 2005

This is a topic we should be able to discuss. We have had this topic come up a few times in the past, in different forms. If you look back on those threads, you'll see why the issue of race still comes up- even in the 21st century. Some Geocachers have a problem with diversity. That's their problem, no mine.

As far as this thread goes, I'm glad to see others minorities chiming in. BTW, my high school and organizations I have belonged to over the years have and continue to sponsor Ski Trips and other outdoor activities. Please, please, please remember that a very small percentage of Cachers bother to post here.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Team Tecmage

May 17, 2005

I should slap myself for coming into the general forums, I knew this would happen.

Race = nothing to do with GC - though I have noticed that there are very few non-whites in the HOBBY - it's not a sport - don't try to make it sound like it is one.

Third kid in - in the wife beater is throwing up a CRIP sign. One more finger shooting out to form an E makes it an East Coast CRIP sign.

How does this cracker know? B/C I have taught kids who were CRIP my whole career as an educator. And yes, they are everywhere.

May 17, 2005

Race = nothing to do with GC - though I have noticed that there are very few non-whites in the HOBBY - it's not a sport - don't try to make it sound like it is one.

OK, I'M not going to try to make it SOUND like it is one....

"A sport consists of a normal physical activity or skill carried out under a publicly agreed set of rules, and with a recreational purpose: for competition, for self-enjoyment, to attain excellence, for the development of skill, or some combination of these. A sport has physical activity, side by side competition, and a scoring system. The difference of purpose is what characterises sport, combined with the notion of individual (or team) skill or prowess. " -Wikipedia

Sport, hobby, whatever. :lol: Though, I've been involved in many organized sports, and I get just as much exercise and see just as much competition (if not more!) in this "hobby" as I did in those "sports."

OK, done being OT.

2.3k · May 17, 2005

Next weeks topic: Is geocahing a communist sport. :lol:

Oops, sorry that topic comes up in in 2 weeks. :lol:

Next week: Is geocaching a Hindu sport. :lol:

1k · May 17, 2005

Third kid in - in the wife beater is throwing up a CRIP sign. One more finger shooting out to form an E makes it an East Coast CRIP sign.

How does this cracker know? B/C I have taught kids who were CRIP my whole career as an educator. And yes, they are everywhere.[/color]

1. It still doesn't mean those kids in the photo are gang members. (i.e. YOU knew the sign, too, and YOU'RE not a gang member.)

2. Don't think gang members are EVERYWHERE. They're not.

3. I know it wasn't your comment to REMOVE the photo from the forums but I should have commented on it when I thougt of it earlier: I think the suggestion to remove the photo from the forum thread when it was obviously related to the topic was absurd.

Just my cracker two-cents' worth.

:lol:

1k · May 17, 2005

Next week: Is geocaching a Hindu sport.

I was thinking of getting one of those little "Hindu sports" to get back and forth from work. They get amazing gas mileage, don't they?! I saw a little red hatchback Hindu sport at the dealership just the other day.

Oh , wait.

You must be talking about something else, right?

:lol:

May 17, 2005

Just out of curiousity, did you happen to do the questioning in a raise-your-hand environment or was it more of a pen and paper questionaire where the responses are less likely to be influenced by their neighboring friends and family?

(Not a criticism...just a question.)

I asked a series of simple questions on paper. Like: What 's your favorite to sport watch? play? If you had time to "try" in a new sport, what would you choose? why? Of the outdoor sports what do you like most? least? Have you heard of the sport of Kayaking, Orienteering Geocaching?

etc. Then I put everybody together & enthusiastically talked about geocaching and orienteering.

Happy Hunting

May 17, 2005

I honestly get sick to my stomache every time the race card is thrown in for some reason or another... People are too sensitive about insignificant things. Granted there are several reasons to get "hot" about, but geocaching is not one of them.

If you live in America then you are an American, none other... If you live outside the States then you are whatever country you live in, ie European, Italian, ect...

It doesn't matter what color you are, you're a human being, a typical Homosapian and you should just leave it at that...

8.4k · May 17, 2005

Next weeks topic: Is geocahing a communist sport.

Next week: Is geocaching a Hindu sport.

OOO! OO! And the next can be: Why do so many caucasian communists carry guns to go geocaching? :lol: :lol:

1.1k · May 17, 2005

Geocaching may also not be as popular among African-Americans due to lack of knowledge of the sport.

The best analogy I could make is look what Tiger Woods did for the sport of golf for African Americans.

And phillipinos too! Hardly anyone mentions that he's half phillipino. All that they focus on is he's black. He's a product of the "melting pot". So, I guess that you could say that he brought the sport of golf to the Phillipines, too? I would say so! Cool!

...erm, um...

Quoted from http://www.larryelder.com/racial/tigerwoods.htm:

Tiger has tried to address the "what-shall-you-call-me" issue. The November 1996 issue of "Golf Digest," he said, "The purpose of this statement is to explain my heritage for the benefit of members of media who may be seeing me play for the first time. It is the final and only comment I will make regarding this issue.

"My parents have taught me to always be proud of my ethnic background. Please be assured that is, and will be, the case, past, present, and future. The various media have portrayed me as African-American, sometimes Asian. In fact, I am both...On my father's side I am African-American; on my mother's side I am Thai. Truthfully, I feel very fortunate, and equally proud, to be both African-American and Asian! The critical, and fundamental, point is that ethnic background and/or composition should not make a difference. It does not make a difference to me."

= = = end quote = = =

And so it should go with Geocaching as well?

Edited May 17, 2005 by drat19

1k · May 17, 2005

...erm, um...

Quoted from http://www.larryelder.com/racial/tigerwoods.htm:

"My parents have taught me to always be proud of my ethnic background. Please be assured that is, and will be, the case, past, present, and future. The various media have portrayed me as African-American, sometimes Asian. In fact, I am both...On my father's side I am African-American; on my mother's side I am Thai. Truthfully, I feel very fortunate, and equally proud, to be both African-American and Asian! The critical, and fundamental, point is that ethnic background and/or composition should not make a difference. It does not make a difference to me."

= = = end quote = = =

And so it should go with Geocaching as well?

To re-iterate what a few have already said earlier...the original question for this topic was whether geocaching was a caucasian sport. I think we have established...

1. despite a lack of actual percentages or ratios (which, I feel , I can live without) there is a mix of various races and origins among participants.

2. A lack of presence from members of any particular race is possibly due to a lack of awareness of the sport and/or a lack of interest in the sport when an individual is determining how they choose to spend their time.

3. It was only a question about who participates in geocaching. Discussions about race and origin should not be taboo. (Also, to respond to an earlier comment, referring to someone's color as black or brown should not be offensive. If you're black, you're black. If you're white, you're white. If you're bi-racial, you're bi-racial. We're all rightfully proud of who we are.)

I personally don't feel there was any harm in having this forum topic and, although there may have been some comments with which I didn't agree, that much is true with almost every forum topic in some way.

This goes to show discussing race and origin doesn't always have to be such atouchy subject.

May 17, 2005

My wife and daughter geocaching in New Hampshire

May 17, 2005

Third kid in - in the wife beater is throwing up a CRIP sign. One more finger shooting out to form an E makes it an East Coast CRIP sign.

How does this cracker know? B/C I have taught kids who were CRIP my whole career as an educator. And yes, they are everywhere.[/color]

1. It still doesn't mean those kids in the photo are gang members. (i.e. YOU knew the sign, too, and YOU'RE not a gang member.)

2. Don't think gang members are EVERYWHERE. They're not.

3. I know it wasn't your comment to REMOVE the photo from the forums but I should have commented on it when I thougt of it earlier: I think the suggestion to remove the photo from the forum thread when it was obviously related to the topic was absurd.

Just my cracker two-cents' worth.

1. You're right, it does not mean that they are gang members however - it is a gang sign - which is what I said. Gang signs are as common fashion and are often included in one way or another. Gang culture is seen throughout much of what you're children see - if they watch MTV they see it on a daily basis. Calvin Klein (CK - Bloods wear it because they say it stands for Crip Killer), any Burger King paraphenalia = Blood Killer, British Knights sneakers are worn by CRIP members - same idea.

2. Gangs are everywhere. They are there in one way or another. I did not grow up in a poor area or in an area that you would think typically have have gangs but, there were gangs. You are naive to think that gangs are not near you or that your children (if you have any) are not exposed to their culture.

It's all pretty stupid but there nonetheless.

May 17, 2005

Third kid in - in the wife beater is throwing up a CRIP sign. One more finger shooting out to form an E makes it an East Coast CRIP sign.

How does this cracker know? B/C I have taught kids who were CRIP my whole career as an educator. And yes, they are everywhere.[/color]

All this discussion about gangs is sick stuff. Let's drop it. The less attention paid to these criminals the better.

6.7k · May 17, 2005

Y'all get off on the strangest tangents! The OP was, essentially, asking a question I have asked before and am still curious about.

The question isn't touchy or dangerous, nor a troll for anyone's beliefs on race.

Interesting that I am reading this today, 50 YEARS to the day after Brown v Board supposedly ended segregation!

The question is how do we grow and represent our game to be a multi-cultural, open and inclusive experience?

The "why are blacks rarely depicted?" is easy - because at this point there are statistically few black among us.

The more interesting question to me is why that is.

Certainly I have never seen any description of the game that indicates it's a white thing, seen no events that said "white only", seen nor heard of anything that in any way indicated non-whites are not equally welcome.

So, why then is this game predominantly white?

Certainly racial stereotyping is a part of it - the knee-jerk reactions to a picture of a group of black kids having fun proves that out!

The very denial of racial issues perpetuates them as well - "OHHH! This thread mentioned race - shut it down quick!" or "Them kids are makin sign - they're criminals! Get 'em!" are of no help whatsoever!

This reminds me of an old aphorism about racism - when segregation was still open and admitted a bus driver who thought himself to be progressive hears passengers arguing about where white and black pasengers should sit. Deciding to put a stop to this silliness he pulls over and orders everyone off the bus. On the side of the road he lectures his passengers - "I have had a belly-full of this racial bickering! It does not matter what color you are or where you sit! If black and white can't get along, I hereby declare you all to be green - every one of you is now green! No more black and white! Just a bunch of green people!

Now, everybody get on the bus - dark green, get in the back!"

Racism exists, it's better to deal with it than ignore it.

I am all about building and sharing this game I love. I am very active in it, publish a monthly newsletter, do newspaper and televison articles on geocaching, host and promote events, and in general do everything I can to grow both the game and my local state association, the AGA. I have not tried to reach out to people of any particular group, I just reach out to geocachers!

Still, despite all that, I know of no black Alabama geocacher...or Indian, Asian or Hispanic either, come to think about it.

Interesting question! Should I reach out specifically to those communities?

Since we are predominantly white should we make special effort to recruit others, or just accept that this is a reflection of different cultural values?

Should we just leave it alone and let individuals come to the game as they discover it, accepting all comers?

My church struggles with these same issues; open and inviting to all, we too are mostly whites of the middle-to-upper income bracket. I can tell you it's not by choice of the congregation, I just think people are attracted to people like themselves.

I hope this thread lives on as a way to answer these questions, without the hysteria and heat!

Ed

1.7k · May 17, 2005

I'm half Japanese and my fiance is full Japanese. I've met several Asian cachers here in the SF Bay Area.

BTW, Tiger Woods is Thai, not Filipino.

2.5k · May 17, 2005

If you live in America then you are an American, none other... If you live outside the States then you are whatever country you live in, ie European, Italian, ect...

So what are you trying to say, that Italians are not Europeans?

2.5k · May 17, 2005

No wonder there are still so many prejudice people around... Someone asks a simple question because they're curious about something and then everyone gets up their butts because "what's it matter?" "it's not about race" etc... Ignorance breeds hatred. So keep being ignorant. Good plan.

Personally, I think it's a valid question. And I don't see it as any different than the age survey that was done on here a week or so ago.

May 17, 2005

The question is valid. As with most other leisuretime activities there is no mirrorring of the population in whatever way you divide the population in groups. But how come?

My mathematics are playing up. There are some neat models trying to explain this.

http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation

is a nice start.

This project models the behavior of two types of turtles in a mythical pond. The red turtles and green turtles get along with one another. But each turtle wants to make sure that it lives near some of "its own." That is, each red turtle wants to live near at least some red turtles, and each green turtle wants to live near at least some green turtles. The simulation shows how these individual preferences ripple through the pond, leading to large-scale patterns.

What will happen to this thread when I rephrase the question:

Geocaching: A Christian sport?

May 17, 2005

Another thought ...

It appears to be a conclusion of this thread that non-Caucasians are less likely to be attracted to Geocaching (due to cultural, geographic, etc. reasons). Could it be that showing so many Caucasian faces on the home page artificially reinforces this tendancy? Would non-Caucasians be put off by a site which doesn't somehow include them in such a high profile sharing of experiences?

If I saw a web site that featured only Black faces or Asian faces I might have the impression that that site was only for a Black or Asian audiance. I think this is just human nature.

Edited May 17, 2005 by RakeInTheCache

1k · May 17, 2005

The question is valid. As with most other leisuretime activities there is no mirrorring of the population in whatever way you divide the population in groups. But how come?
My mathematics are playing up. There are some neat models trying to explain this.

http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation

is a nice start.

This project models the behavior of two types of turtles in a mythical pond. The red turtles and green turtles get along with one another. But each turtle wants to make sure that it lives near some of "its own." That is, each red turtle wants to live near at least some red turtles, and each green turtle wants to live near at least some green turtles. The simulation shows how these individual preferences ripple through the pond, leading to large-scale patterns.

What will happen to this thread when I rephrase the question:

Geocaching: A Christian sport?

Prof. Lupardi's model is interesting, but I don't think it's particularly relevent unless you assume that the decision to go geocaching (or not to go) is influenced by the likelihood of meeting other people. I think that this is probably not a major factor.

I think most geocachers either go by themselves, or with others whom they already know. Certainly there are exceptions, and Event Caches are among them, but I don't see how the turtle model informs this discussion.

The model does show how even a moderate desire to be near others of one's "own kind" results in "clumping" of a population. This can be seen in a school cafeteria, where students invariably seem to segregate themselves. It is also reminiscent of the ethnicity of residential neighborhoods. But geocaching? I don't see it.

EDIT--talk about an unreralistic model! Run the servlet and set the number of turtles to 2000, and the "%-similar-wanted" to 90% This represents a very low degree of tolerance for the other color turtle. When you run the simulation, clumping does not occur. The turtles are so dissatisfied that they all keep moving all the time, and there is no segregation! At a more tolerant level, say 60% similar, segregation occurs quickly because the turtles can finnd acceptable conditions.

Edited May 17, 2005 by reveritt

3.3k · May 17, 2005

Since we are predominantly white should we make special effort to recruit others, or just accept that this is a reflection of different cultural values?

No extra effort should be made. Geocaching makes the news, the Travel Channel, and a silly show that is getting canceled (Law and Order). Why should geocachers go out of their way to educate the masses? What purpose would "Minority Drives" to attain more mixed cachers do to improve the game?

Should we just leave it alone and let individuals come to the game as they discover it, accepting all comers?

Yes.

No wonder there are still so many prejudice people around... Someone asks a simple question because they're curious about something and then everyone gets up their butts because "what's it matter?" "it's not about race" etc... Ignorance breeds hatred. So keep being ignorant. Good plan.

Now there is a valid argument

Those who expressed disgust for this inconsequential topic are all a bunch of backward, ignorant, and white hicks.

You slay me with your logic.

Could it be that showing so many Caucasian faces on the home page artificially reinforces this tendancy? Would non-Caucasians be put off by a site which doesn't somehow include them in such a high profile sharing of experiences?

Oh please, the majority of cachers are white, therefore there is a conspiracy to keep minorities down . Give me a break!

Now too many "white faces" on the front page are scaring minorities away from our sport. What a bunch of dribble!

This reminds me of the hoopla over the 9/11 commerative stamp featuring three white firemen. All the activists that wanted to cram diversity down America's throats, wanted to edit the picture, to Artificially add minorities firefighters to the picture. Thankfully Pres Bush approved the picture as it happened, no editing was allowed. What you saw is what you got. No fakery.

Let's just Artifically stack the front page photos with "non whites" in order to make the game less scary to other non whites. Brilliance I say.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Kit Fox

2.6k · May 17, 2005

Have you ever seen a brother playing horseshoes? Hmmmm. Me neither.

May 17, 2005

You slay me with your logic.

There's an awful lot of emotion in that post and not an iota of logic.

1.8k · May 17, 2005

Have you ever seen a brother playing horseshoes? Hmmmm. Me neither.

Or croquet? Or polo?

Wait, what was this discussion about again?

For me, this is a simple issue...at least here in the States. Whites make up the bulk of the U.S. population (of course, as I look out my office window here in Los Angeles, I don't see many whites at all!). Whites also, statistically, earn considerably more than those of the larger minority populations. Though those of Asian descent earn more but account for less than 4% of the U.S. population. Based on the statistics alone, it makes perfect sense that more white people who can afford to buy more electronic gadgets, means predominantly white geocachers.

(Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2000 census data)

1k · May 17, 2005

Have you ever seen a brother playing horseshoes? Hmmmm. Me neither.

Yes, actually--I know of a predominantly black social club where there is a well-used horseshoe pitch.

This topic used to come up when I worked at the university. As much as the Athletic Director tried to encourage diversity, there were some sports that remained lily-white. Among these were lacrosse and crew. Most of the white men who went out for these sports had no prior exposure to them, but they were clearly seen as "white" sports. Black men tended to go out for basketball, football, and track.

Another thought--this discussion has focused on white vs. non-white, but there may very well be caucasian ethnic groups that are as poorly represented within geocaching as the various non-white ethnic groups. This wouldn't necessarily be obvious, but perhaps geocaching (and other "woodsy" sports) appeal more to northern Europeans than to southern Europeans. I don't know that this is the case--just speculating.

3.3k · May 17, 2005

You slay me with your logic.

There's an awful lot of emotion in that post and not an iota of logic.

Where is the logic in your post?

Could it be that showing so many Caucasian faces on the home page artificially reinforces this tendancy? Would non-Caucasians be put off by a site which doesn't somehow include them in such a high profile sharing of experiences?

If I saw a web site that featured only Black faces or Asian faces I might have the impression that that site was only for a Black or Asian audiance. I think this is just human nature.

I log onto the website to find geocaches, not to see the "pretty pictures." I liked this website just fine before they had the picture gallery.

My first impression of geocaching came in the field, when I saw my first geocache. There was no one else there, except my friend, the cache and me. I had no idea how many minority cachers, gay cachers, non-Christian cachers, or cachers of a different political persuasion than me. Frankly, I didn't care. All I knew was I was hooked on caching, and still am. Color isn't and issue with me, DNFs are and issue for me.

I'm in this game to have fun, find caches, experience neat areas, make friends, not to promote the game to people who aren't interested.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Kit Fox

38.2k · May 17, 2005

Have you ever seen a brother playing horseshoes? Hmmmm. Me neither.

I admit it did take a while to find the pics.

Another thought--this discussion has focused on white vs. non-white, but there may very well be caucasian ethnic groups that are as poorly represented within geocaching as the various non-white ethnic groups.

Just look at the difference in the popularity of our sport between Germany and France. Germany has almost 10,000 caches, while France has barely 500. Germany has more people but not enough to make that kind of difference.

Edited May 17, 2005 by briansnat

24.7k · May 17, 2005

I've had more time to think about this. Not so much the question but the questoining of the question and those who have said the question is valid. Both are right and for the same reasons. You have to be willing to have the discussion and if you can and you can do it out of curiosity while using your brain then that's a good thing.

I once gave a survey and neglected to cross out the part on race since it wasn't relevant to my term paper. One friend crossed out all the answers and put "American" and at the time I thought it odd. Then I realized that he had made his choice and he was 100% right as were the people who checked off the little box that more or less defines them as the government chooses to see the world.

I'm too dadgum much of a mutt myself to fit into one box, and there are too many dead ends to know what boxes to check if I wanted to do more than one. On top of that they don't have the boxes I would like to check anyway. What I don't know about my own genetics I like to think of as a wild card. Nobody can tell me I'm not one of "their kind" because I could very well be. Plus if someone is being pretty deragatory, they are insulting me as well.

20 years after my friend checked American I'm happy with that myself. In the big picure race is interesting but in the end it's not as simple as race, because race is your genetic makup, while your heratage and culture can be something else entirly. It all comes together in who we are, and I personally like to deal with people one on one.

To answer the OP which I have not done directly. The cachers that I have introduced or will introduce cover things like Inuit, Athabaskan, Thai, and Japanese. Before my run on this earth is over if someone is tracking all this a few others could be added, but all I'm doing is geocaching and introducing the idea to everyone who might be fun to get hooked and go caching with. They all have that American thing in common though. Funny how that works.

2.1k · May 17, 2005

I'm in this game to have fun, find caches, experience neat areas, make friends, not to promote the game to people who aren't interested.

Ok, then go do that and stop replying to this topic. The interest of this topic as you've clearly determined is whether the current promotion of this sport biases the interest level of specific cultures/races or if there is some other tangible that biases the participants. If that doesn't interest you, then you didn't need to post here, we have heard that you aren't interested now.

I submit that there is a fundamental image portrayed by this hobby. That image requires trail-hiking/pathfinding, use of some current technology (internet/GPSr), and a bit of quirkiness (finding hidden objects, signing logs, trading objects/toys).

The demographic that geocaching appeals to will already have some predominant level of interest in some combination of these three areas (i.e. you love technology and have now found a way to apply it or you love walking trails and now have something to do on the trail). People often don't search beyond their comfort zone for something wholly new to what they already do or like.

Taking this into account, advertisers spend their dollars where they are most effective. Instead of trying to chase down brand new markets/angles, they'll work harder at what's already working well in order to beat competition, etc. So, since you won't likely find a Jeep/Geocaching ad in Source Magazine, you won't likely introduce the idea to the demographics outside of those that already hike, use new tech, and/or are quirky. The quirkiness isn't cultural enough to consider a deciding factor, but I think the other two are. There are most likely underlying economic/geographic factors for why certain cultures don't have/desire the latest tech or like to hike trails, but that's best left to a whole different post.

I think the hobby attracts those that are going to be interested and I think they'll end up being predominantly white (thereby affecting what is shown in the image gallery).

Of course, the original post asked to hear from non-caucasian geocachers...and I'm not one of them, so I'm sorry for going OT.

2.6k · May 17, 2005

Yes, actually--I know of a predominantly black social club where there is a well-used horseshoe pitch.

Wow. And to think I was giving them points for not playing horseshoes.

Are you going to shatter my illusions about persons of color not playing candlepins next?

8k · May 17, 2005

In this log for a cache at a memorial to Conferderate soldiers in South Carolina, a friend of mine wrote that the police kept driving by checking on him. I thought it might have been because he is African-American, but thanks to Ms. Cieps we now know that race was not the reason. It was because he is a geocacher.

38.2k · May 17, 2005

Yes, actually--I know of a predominantly black social club where there is a well-used horseshoe pitch.

Wow. And to think I was giving them points for not playing horseshoes.

Are you going to shatter my illusions about persons of color not playing candlepins next?

You're not going to make me spend another hour googling combinations of black and candlepins are you?

In this log for a cache at a memorial to Conferderate soldiers in South Carolina, a friend of mine wrote that the police kept driving by checking on him. I thought it might have been because he is African-American, but thanks to Ms. Cieps we now know that race was not the reason. It was because he is a geocacher

I think all urban and suburban geocachers run into this problem. The very nature of our sport makes us look suspicious to police. I'm sure the problem is exacerbated for black geocachers, particularly in white neighborhoods and judging from what happened in SC, white geocachers in black neighborhoods also turn heads.

Edited May 17, 2005 by briansnat

2.6k · May 17, 2005

Yes, actually--I know of a predominantly black social club where there is a well-used horseshoe pitch.

Wow. And to think I was giving them points for not playing horseshoes.

Are you going to shatter my illusions about persons of color not playing candlepins next?

Glad to.

http://alumweb.mit.edu/classes/1984/albums...ng/index0.shtml

1k · May 18, 2005

Yes, actually--I know of a predominantly black social club where there is a well-used horseshoe pitch.

Wow. And to think I was giving them points for not playing horseshoes.

Are you going to shatter my illusions about persons of color not playing candlepins next?

Glad to.

http://alumweb.mit.edu/classes/1984/albums...ng/index0.shtml

Shocking!

I suppose, now, you'll be telling me Brazilian women actually sun-bathe in bikinis!

*fingers crossed*

May 18, 2005

This is starting to remind me of the Jeep Magazine article discussion from awhile back. The OP asked a valid question. Yes, geocaching, at least in this area is still predominantly white. I think as time goes on the geocaching population will steadily become more like the general population. But keep in mind Geocaching is still very new (only 5 years). A large percentage of us are here because we were introduced to it by family and friends.

There's certainly nothing about geocaching and geocaching.com for that matter that discourages minorities. As someone who's been at this for over three years now, I have definitely seen the number of minorities showing up in photos and in the forums increasing. But no, there's no conspiracy or secret meetings going on to keep minorities out. Heck, for all I know, I may be a minority. All our genealogical records were lost in that flood a few thousand years ago.

Oh, and for what it's worth - I can personally vouch for the "gang" photo in this thread coming from a geocache (Plymouth Bluff). I placed the cache. I put the camera in the cache. I pulled the camera when it was full. I had the photos developed. I posted the photos to the cache page. The background is indeed where the cache is - a not-so-easy half-mile hike (one way) well off the beaten path. Anybody there is there on purpose. Yeah, they're flashing "gang" signs in the photo. So what? They're kids being kids having a silly fun time. And in this case the kids happen to be black.

4.5k · May 18, 2005

Buddy, my poodle, got interested in caching because he was exposed to it after I took it up. Oh, he's gray.

May 18, 2005

The pisture piqued my curiosity, so I Sent it to my work e-mail to do some research.

BTW, I am a correctional Officer in WI.

I showed the picture to 2 of the staff Disruptive Groups experts, and also to one of my Inmate workers that I know is a Gang member, all at seperate times and asked them what they saw in the picture.

The responses were all the same.

From the left, the first boy is showing a "C" formed with his fingers on the top held together, and his thumb extended- a common Crips sign.

The 2nd boy is Showing an "A", for Atlanta, where the Crips are based.

The third boy is showing another Crips sign.

The Crips colors are Red and Blue, as worn by 2 of the boys.

There is some significance to the Tank tops, but I don't remember what that was.

Obviously, they knew what they were doing. It doesn't neccesarily mean that they are Crips members, but it is not just innocent fun.

If they are not members, they are playing with fire- this type of "silly fun time" could end up getting them killed.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Docapi

2.1k · May 18, 2005

The 2nd boy is Showing an "A", for Atlanta, where the Crips are based.

Um, the Crips originated in LA. There are Crips pretty much across the nation now. Nothing really special about Atlanta other than the large number of rappers that have touted its southern appeal.

The Crips colors are Red and Blue, as worn by 2 of the boys.

Whoa, way wrong info there. Crips are Blue only. Bloods are Red. You'd never see a Crip with symbolic Red if he wanted to live.

There is some significance to the Tank tops, but I don't remember what that was.

Um...it was hot? Tank tops don't have any special meaning to Crips or Bloods.

Obviously, they knew what they were doing. It doesn't neccesarily mean that they are Crips members, but it is not just innocent fun.

Yeah, they knew what they were doing. I'd put money on them simply emulating their favorite rap artists (there's a great picture just out from a week ago of Outkast's Big Boi, Jane Fonda, and Dallas Austin all flashing the Atlanta hand sign but the content under the photo isn't linkable). Can we stop overanalyzing that photo, especially if people are going to give out wrong information?

May 18, 2005

Where is the logic in your post?

I was not claiming to make a statement. You obviously were. For what it's worth, a course in courtesy might get you farther in life.

Edited May 18, 2005 by RakeInTheCache

May 18, 2005

Just look at the difference in the popularity of our sport between Germany and France. Germany has almost 10,000 caches, while France has barely 500. Germany has more people but not enough to make that kind of difference.

The difference in numbers of geocaches/geocachers between France and Germany seems have to do with language/culture.

There is a nice picture of caches: goto http://www.geocaching.nl/index/ and click on "Kaart van de Benelux" (top op page).

You will see that Germany and the Netherlands have about the same density of caches.

Also the Northern part of Belgium above the line Lille-Liège compares well with the Dutch and German distribution; in this part they also speek Dutch, a language of Germanic origin.

In the south part of Belgium they speak French, a language belonging to the Latin languagegroup.

And it seems that caches like to be near other caches; the distribution is lumped.

May 18, 2005

Having never met any other geocacher I dont know what race or planet any of them come from. I am not caucasian and I found this sport on my own without needing to be recruited or educated as to its existence. Threads like this make me wonder if I'll ever go to a group function.

1k · May 18, 2005

Having never met any other geocacher I dont know what race or planet any of them come from. ...

I have met a few--and I'm still wondering what planet they are from.

Threads like this make me wonder if I'll ever go to a group function.

I hope you do attend a group function--and join the discussions in the New England forum.

May 18, 2005

Having never met any other geocacher I dont know what race or planet any of them come from. ...

I have met a few--and I'm still wondering what planet they are from.

Threads like this make me wonder if I'll ever go to a group function.

I hope you do attend a group function--and join the discussions in the New England forum.

I will go to a group function. Thanks. I usually frequent the Maine Cachers page. http://www.geocachingmaine.org/ and will start doing the New England forum more often.

Thanks reveritt

May 18, 2005

Just look at the difference in the popularity of our sport between Germany and France. Germany has almost 10,000 caches, while France has barely 500. Germany has more people but not enough to make that kind of difference.

The difference in numbers of geocaches/geocachers between France and Germany seems have to do with language/culture.

There is a nice picture of caches: goto http://www.geocaching.nl/index/ and click on "Kaart van de Benelux" (top op page).

You will see that Germany and the Netherlands have about the same density of caches.

Also the Northern part of Belgium above the line Lille-Liège compares well with the Dutch and German distribution; in this part they also speek Dutch, a language of Germanic origin.

In the south part of Belgium they speak French, a language belonging to the Latin languagegroup.

And it seems that caches like to be near other caches; the distribution is lumped.

O.K. did a quick study while at home getting over a cold. Here are the rankings for Western European countries. The stat is the number of caches per 100,000 inhabitants.

41.5 Sweden
32.2 Norway
18.5 Denmark
12.3 Switzerland
11.7 Germany
11.6 Netherlands
11.5 Austria
10.5 UK
8.9 Belgium
6.3 Ireland
2.8 Portugal
1.4 Spain
0.9 Greece
0.9 France
0.8 Italy
0.2 Japan

There definately appears to be a North vs. South divide. I propose the answer is due to weather (as opposed to Germanic/Latin origins) as the Northern Europeans need this kind of activity to coax them out into foul weather.

What's interesting is that of the Latin countries, Portugal is number 1 which is inverse to it's economic ranking. I remember there seemed to be a passionate (and very friendly) but unknown number of local Geocachers there when I visited Lisbon this year.

Edited May 18, 2005 by RakeInTheCache

3.9k · May 18, 2005

Just look at the difference in the popularity of our sport between Germany and France. Germany has almost 10,000 caches, while France has barely 500. Germany has more people but not enough to make that kind of difference.

The difference in numbers of geocaches/geocachers between France and Germany seems have to do with language/culture.

There is a nice picture of caches: goto http://www.geocaching.nl/index/ and click on "Kaart van de Benelux" (top op page).

You will see that Germany and the Netherlands have about the same density of caches.

Also the Northern part of Belgium above the line Lille-Liège compares well with the Dutch and German distribution; in this part they also speek Dutch, a language of Germanic origin.

In the south part of Belgium they speak French, a language belonging to the Latin languagegroup.

And it seems that caches like to be near other caches; the distribution is lumped.

O.K. did a quick study while at home getting over a cold. Here are the rankings for Western European countries. The stat is the number of caches per 100,000 inhabitants.

41.5 Sweden

32.2 Norway

18.5 Denmark

12.3 Switzerland

11.7 Germany

11.6 Netherlands

11.5 Austria

10.5 UK

8.9 Belgium

6.3 Ireland

2.8 Portugal

1.4 Spain

0.9 Greece

0.9 France

0.8 Italy

0.2 Japan

There definately appears to be a North vs. South divide. I propose the answer is due to weather (as opposed to Germanic/Latin origins) as the Northern Europeans need this kind of activity to coax them out into foul weather.

What's interesting is that of the Latin countries, Portugal is number 1 which is inverse to it's economic ranking. I remember there seemed to be a passionate (and very friendly) but unknown number of local Geocachers there when I visited Lisbon this year.

Portugal is small enough that a couple of determined placers can make a real difference to the national numbers.

As for France/Germany, I used to make the "cultural" argument. I now think that it may simply be a question of time. Caching got off the ground earlier in Germany (for all sorts of reasons, some of them indeed possibly cultural), but I suspect that once you have a certain "critical density" of caches, it starts running all by itself. Certainly having seen the enthusiasm with which French people who I've introduced to the game take it up, I don't think they're 15 times less keen than their German neighbours. (Factor 20 for caches, factor 0.75 for population)

1.6k · May 18, 2005

I talked about caching so much with one of my co-workers, that I finally was able to get him to go out and do one.

First, I think he wanted to see exactly what the heck I was doing that caused me to come to work on Mondays with my legs all scratched up.

Second, I think he thought if he went, I would shut up about it.

We went to a local county park and I checked on one of my caches.

It was warmish, and quite buggy. He did not want bug spray. Smelled bad. He always wears cologne, although less now than at that time. (I would wrinkle my nose we he got close and I think he got the hint.)

Ten minutes into the stroll, he is swatting the bugs, sweaty, and complaining that his back hurts. We are walking slower and slower, and he tells me he cannot believe this is what I consider fun. He toughed it out for the entire .3 miles round trip, probably so I wouldn't tell our co-workers that he wussed out.

On the way back, I pointed out a copperhead that was sunning near the trail. We made it back to the car in record time!

On Monday mornings at work, my car is always the dirtiest in the lot. I spend the week-end seeing how dirty I can get my car, he spends the week-end seeing how clean he can get his. And we each think what we are doing is fun and the other one is NUTS!

Sissy

1k · May 18, 2005

Interesting, but is there link to the topic of this thread?

Geocaching : A Caucasian Sport?

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