Jump to content

Geocaching In Parks.


Kermode

Recommended Posts

I feel that we should all stop placing and searching for geocaches in Parks.

The added activity is doing damage to these preserved areas and the are so many other non-park areas where we can cache.

Did you know that it only takes one person to change the landscape just from walking over it.

The National Parks in Canada are considering enacting a new law to ban it.

I have to agree with them .

 

Any others agree?

Link to comment

No Cardinal YOU are saying that.

All I am saying is that I think it is a great idea to keep Parks free from extra wear and tear.

You dont realize that it only takes one person to change the landscape?

Ask any tracker and they will tell you.

Actually I am a tracker , I should be up front about that now.

I notice the 10 foot fence comment was done tongue-in-cheek but please be realistic folks.

Most people do not realize why our National Parks are there. They seem to think that they are there for the enjoyment of humans.

Wrong.

Lets just do our part to help protect these areas and do our caching elsewhere.

Link to comment

So if the national parks are not for the enjoyment of people, then perhaps the 10 foot fence idea isn't such a bad thing. If no one can get in, then nothing gets disturbed. No wear and tear on the environment, no trash to be removed. They could most likely cut park staff to maybe 1 or 2 per park. Think of the savings to the taxpayers, less employees, no need to maintain the parks since they'll maintain themselves. Sounds good to me. Maybe the provincial parks can get in on this too?

 

Wulf

Link to comment
I feel that we should all stop placing and searching for geocaches in Parks.

The added activity is doing damage to these preserved areas and the are so many other non-park areas where we can cache.

Did you know that it only takes one person to change the landscape just from walking over it.

The National Parks in Canada are considering enacting a new law to ban it.

I have to agree with them .

 

Any others agree?

Wait until you see the rest of Kermode/Yukon's platform. He's calling for the BCGA to become a listing site and list all (!) Canadian caches and demand that GC remove all Canadian cache listings under threat of server attacks by him and the hundreds (!) of other Canadian cachers he believes will agree with him.

 

Don't feed the troll...

Link to comment

No.

 

Not up there nor down here in the States.

 

If as you claim, the parks are not for people to enjoy either for the scenery or wildlife or both, then just what is the point of them?

 

Animal sanctuary? If no one knows they exist, then how can they be missed if they go extinct?

 

Scenery? Just look at the video’s or postcards that someone else made?

 

And what would the point of that be? That’s like not being able to go after a cache because someone else posted a log and a photo on the webpage.

 

Sorry if this sound overly negative put just what would the point of having these parks be without human interaction?

 

And Goraks comments seem to be on topic if you are here trying to drum up support to ban caches.

 

Logscaler.

Edited by logscaler & Red
Link to comment
You dont realize that it only takes one person to change the landscape?

Ask any tracker and they will tell you.

Actually I am a tracker , I should be up front about that now.

 

Well, off course people (and animals) leave tracks and signs when they walk or run through a forest. But those are temporary and do not "destroy the environment". Plants are usually not so fragile that someone walking beside will kill them. In most terrains, you`d be hard pressed to find any traces a few days after I walked through (unless your name is Aragorn).

 

From the Parks Canada website :

On behalf of the people of Canada, we protect and present nationally significant examples of Canada's natural and cultural heritage and foster public understanding, appreciation and enjoyment in ways that ensure their ecological and commemorative integrity for present and future generations

 

Notice : to protect and present.

 

So it would seem that Parks Canada want people to see the things they are protecting. And I don`t think they mean in pictures and book only. Have you never seen their publicity? They want people to visit the Parks. Sure, they don`t want people trampling all over fragile plants, so in some places you have to stay on trails, or even on wooden platforms, while in other area you can walk wherever you want. To me, geocaching is no more damageable than walking. If the governement didn't want people walking in the Parks, they would close them.

Link to comment

Parks are set aside for their specific attributes.

Some parks are off limits to humans. Mainly ecological reserves. They are off limits because humans 98% of them are incapable of no trace visits. This is mainly because they have no experience in nature. Nature to most people consists of a tree on a sidewalk in a city. Maybe a bird sitting on a power wire.

Parks are in place to PRESERVE things such as plants, animals, water, geological items and many more things. They are not set up as large open air zoos, aquariums, or green houses where we are free to do what we want.Including geocaching.

Humans fit into the equation but they are not at the top and by no means are they entitled to go into parks and change them. It is to be considered a privelage.

Geocaching brings undesireable aspects to parks.

Increased automobile traffic, increased foot traffic, garbage, noise and other things that our parks do not need.

The parks that do allow humans to visit have areas where humans are allowed. There are designated trails for them to walk on.

People bringing caches into parks are obviously not going to leave the caches at the side of the trail. They are going want to hide the cache off the trail. By doing this they are creating a new trail and disturbing previously undisturbed land. They are killing plants and even introducing unwanted plants and insect life to these area with out even knowing it.

I realize that a few of you wont agree but I think it is important to educate people on some of the reasons why it is Good for all caching to stop in Our Parks.

Some Provincal Parks have already told cachers to stop.

I feel that it is good that the caretakers of those parks see the potential damage and negative aspects and have turned caching away before it gets out of hand.

There are many activities that are not allowed in our parks. 4x4ing, off road vehicles , shooting, plant picking and the removal of anything from parks is illegal. Hunting is illegal in them. Most parks have signs that say please stay on trails. These signs are not there because they are worried that you will become lost they are there so that people are not prancing around disturbing off-trail areas.

Geocaching must be included in the banned activities in our parks.This should clarify the reasons why it is OK for the Ban. I will probably contact Parks Canada and see what we can all do as a Geocacahing Community to support their plans.

Thing such as educating others on thses forum sites and also helping to remove all current caches with the help of the cache owners.

Link to comment

Did you read the Parks Canada mandate?

 

As I said before, why should one special interest group be excluded. Do you honestly think that banning geocaching will have a signifcant impact? I cache on two feet.....if a photographer uses his feet walk to a location and then uses a tripod to take pictures they are using 5 "feet." Does that imply that they are doing even more damage?

Link to comment

I like the idea of designating parklands for many uses...there's lots of land to go around.

 

Having different chunks of land being "zoned" for different usage levels...from 4-wheeler and jet-skis to mountain bikes to motorless to trail-less.

 

Broad sweeping statements on either side seem narrow-minded...people are, and should be, a part of the natural world, and engage with the natural world in positive ways.

 

Geocaching is a wonderful outside activity that shouldn't be banned in any park system.

 

nfa-jamie

Link to comment

If a single person walking in the park can forever alter the landscape then why have parks since they only concentrate people into specific spots? Then to deal with that concentration you pave it over, trail it up, put in lawns, make picnik spots and so on. Then you put up signs that say "Stay on the trail"

 

Yet had you never built the park to begin with you wouldn't of needed any of that to enjoy the area.

 

Bottom line. If you ban people from parks, you might as well ban parks since they no longer serve any purpose.

Link to comment

Lets use Banff National Park as an example.

Tens of thousands of people visit every year and at all times of the year.

A cache is placed 50 feet off of a permanent trail. A paved trail or a trail of compacted crush.

The cache is in a vegetated area hidden beneath a fallen tree.

Over the course of a year, 250 ( a very liberal Number) of cachers, parade off the trail and into the vegetated area.

Let me assure you that those visitors are destroying and leaving permanent changes to the landscape. Now add in all of those 250 cacher's companions, bicycles, wheelchairs, baby strollers,and pets.

Soon it becomes a very visible scar on the land.

 

This is not on the Parks Mandate and as I suggested previously the Parks to not need the added libility.

Cacher placers own the Caches. The do not however have the right to place caches where-ever they please.

Lets keep our parks free from any further erosion and un-needed damage.

Most people do not even live near or visit our National Parks on a regular basis .The point is moot for them.

The parks do serve a purpose. weather humans are or arent allowed in them the parks are still there protecting what they were created for.

Parks can live without people.People have to accept responsibility and help to do what is necesarry to protect the parks.We are not talking about banning people from parks. the discusssion is on banning certain activities from parks. Please do not confuse the two.

TO answer Daggs question about archiving my Cache listed above. Why does it need to archived. It is not inside a park. I checked the area when I placed the cache and it is definatley out side of the NATIONAL park.

Edited by Kermode
Link to comment
I will probably contact Parks Canada and see what we can all do as a Geocacahing Community to support their plans.

And what gives you the right to speak for me and the others on this point?

 

Also, I did go read the thread mentioned above. Someone has their head in a dark spot between their cheeks.

 

And this is just another trolling event as well.

 

Logscaler.

Link to comment

Using your unconfirmed statistics 250 cachers out of 10,000 visitors (lowest estimate) calculates out to 2.5% of the visits being made by cachers. Are you saying that 2.5% (which is likely high) do more damage than the other 97.5%

 

I would venture to say that out of the other 97.5% there are probably considerably more than 2.5% that venture off trail and do damage to the terrain.

 

Please provide some evidence to support your statitics.

Link to comment
Lets use Banff National Park as an example.

Tens of thousands of people visit every year and at all times of the year.

A cache is placed 50 feet off of a permanent trail. A paved trail or a trail of compacted crush.

The cache is in a vegetated area hidden beneath a fallen tree.

Over the course of a year, 250 ( a very liberal Number) of cachers, parade off the trail and into the vegetated area....

I'd think it would be all they could do to clear off the roadkill that park generates.

 

As for the cache, 250 is a very high estimate. But lets say there is a social trail. Archive the cache and place another one 500' over. Done. Next season there is no sign the cache was ever there. This really isn't rocket science.

Link to comment

Actually, I just did a quick check of caches in Banff National Park and of all the caches in the park, not a single one has been found 250 times or, for that matter, even close to that number of times. Even caches that have been there for 4 years. You really should do some very basic research before tossing those sorts of numbers around.

 

Oops... I just fed the troll. :D

Link to comment

In a popular high useage park such as Banff if there were 250 people ( and all of their pets , bikes ,walking sticks, baby strollers and whell chairs and accompanying friends and family) going off the trail to find the cache they are changing the landscape.

If there was no cache there, the need to go off of the designated trail to the specific site would not be there. There would be no damage from 1000 feet trampling off the trail and onto the vegetation.

 

250 people doing a round trip into and out of the cache site equals

500 people trips on the peice of land mulitiplied by 2 feet on each person equals

1000 foot steps. Now factor in all the friend, family, dogs, cats. bike, wheel chairs and yo ucan now see the whole picture. You are just looking at it from the point of view of 1 person walking .

Take any peice of land weather it is dirt or grass or mud(that has never been walked on) and walk 1000 individual feet over that area and you wil notice the change made to that area.

Imagine that being done to our parks.

Link to comment
1 I feel that we should all stop placing and searching for geocaches in Parks.

2 The added activity is doing damage to these preserved areas and the are so many other non-park areas where we can cache.

3 Did you know that it only takes one person to change the landscape just from walking over it.

4 The National Parks in Canada are considering enacting a new law to ban it.

I have to agree with them .

5 Any others agree?

Fist off I think you might be confusing parks (places for people to visit and appreciate nature) with reserves (places to protect wildlife and the ecosystem).

There should be no caches on reserves whatsoever.

 

1 Are you talking about all parks (municipal, provincial, national) or just national?

2 The “added activity” from geocachers is trivial at most compared to other visitors. And so is the damage. squished grass, broken twigs and footprints are all gone by the end of the week. There are lots of other places we can hide caches and we do but for example in BC, parks offer better and safer access to the rugged land.

3 That’s why we have paths and why most cache are located beside them. Now did you know that it only takes one animal (bear, beaver, cougar ect) to change the landscape? What’s the difference between the occasional bear trampling a plant and a human trampling it?

4 Yes I believe we all know that and that it’s the Parks Canada politicians who are doing it (all parks staff that I have talked to don’t have a problem with geocaching)

5 Probably but so far, no.

I do however think that the few caches out there that require people to trample around off paths should be taken out.

Link to comment

I will re-answer DAGGS question.

I will not be archiving that Cache because it is not located within a National Park and that is what we are discussing here. Caches in National Parks. That Cache isnt even in a Provincal Park. It is near one but is is in fact on an Island outside of the Provincal park.

 

Geocaching is fairly new GORAK. As it becomes more familiar more people will hunt caches in the parks if they are available there.

I will say that your mistake is to look at the today and now.

Thankfully our friends running the Parks look towards the future and future damage that will be done.

I used 250 as a liberal number. In the near future it could be 400 and I will assure you that not all people log theri finds at GC.Com

Edited by Kermode
Link to comment
In a popular high useage park such as Banff if there were 250 people ( and all of their pets , bikes ,walking sticks, baby strollers and whell chairs and accompanying friends and family) going off the trail to find the cache they are changing the landscape.

If there was no cache there, the need to go off of the designated trail to the specific site would not be there. There would be no damage from 1000 feet trampling off the trail and onto the vegetation.

 

250 people doing a round trip into and out of the cache site equals

500 people trips on the peice of land mulitiplied by 2 feet on each person equals

1000 foot steps. Now factor in all the friend, family, dogs, cats. bike, wheel chairs and yo ucan now see the whole picture. You are just looking at it from the point of view of 1 person walking .

Take any peice of land weather it is dirt or grass or mud(that has never been walked on) and walk 1000 individual feet over that area and you wil notice the change made to that area.

Imagine that being done to our parks.

You are simply targeting geocaching. You have to step back and look at the big picture. Is anyone saying that geocaching never causes any damage....no they're not. What others are saying is that the impact of geocaching is not as significant as you make it out to be when you look at all other activities and factors.

 

Does this give us a license to carry on without any changes......no. But is also doesn't warrant an all out ban. If you think banning geocaching is going to make a significant difference you are mistaken.

Link to comment

I will not be archiving that Cache because it is not located within a National Park and that is what we are discussing here. Caches in National Parks.

Silly me I thought this was a discussion about “Geocaching In Parks., BAn it.”

But if this if in fact a discussion about federal parks…

 

LOCK IT we have a thread for that.

Link to comment
I will re-answer DAGGS question.

I will not be archiving that Cache because it is not located within a National Park and that is what we are discussing here.

From the original post in this thread:

 

I feel that we should all stop placing and searching for geocaches in Parks.

Make up your mind what your topic is about.

 

Your numbers are not based on any reality whatsoever and your math is seriously flawed.

 

Good luck with your crusade. I'm done feeding this troll. :D

Link to comment

I am talking about all parks National and Provincal and Territorial Parks for sure.

Your link to my cache is off base. It is not even in a park. There was no point to asking that it be archived.

 

I think they should be banned in National And Provincal Parks.

As for Municipal,City,County,and other I feel that it should be left up to the individual entity responsible for it.

City parks are generally in place for kids in the neighbor hood to enjoy. or for the older people to feed pigeons.

Edited by Kermode
Link to comment

Thankyou for posting the map.

It does clearly show that the area across from Cerantes Rock is defineltly outside of the Park Boundaries.

Now that we are all in agreement can we get baclk to the purpose of this thread .

Edited by Kermode
Link to comment

I feel that it is very important to note that out of a current 32 replies to my topic only 7 are from the general public. The others here are local from my area who are intent on causing disruption and attempt to sabotauge the the subject.

They do follow me from site to site do disparage my go intention.

I will also not the there is 1 Nation Park about 4 hours drive from here and the thought of removing geocaches from the National Parks as discussed by the Govebrnment really has no bearing on these yocal locals.

I have checked theri cache finds and none of them have logged a find from a National Park.

It has become blatently obvious that they treat this as a 3 ring circus and will do anything for attention.

They have really put nothing toward this discussion.

It just makes me happy to know that there are people in the PArks Headquarters who have theri heads secured and will be making the sound desision to ban geocaching in parks with out outside influence and that their only goal is to save our parks from unwarranted destruction.

 

I would like to hear from people in Ontario about how it has been in theri provincal parks and how the cachers have taken it.

Link to comment

I will also not the there is 1 Nation Park about 4 hours drive from here and the thought of removing geocaches from the National Parks as discussed by the Govebrnment really has no bearing on these yocal locals.

 

 

 

 

your an idiot.

You have no clue do you?

Link to comment

I have posted a picure on the BigGapingHole cache and it clearly shows that the cache is out side of park boudaries.

Your calculations appear to be out. Your topo maps may need to be fixed up a little.

Thankyou for trying though.

Link to comment
I feel that it is very important to note that out of a current 32 replies to my topic only 7 are from the general public. The others here are local from my area who are intent on causing disruption and attempt to sabotauge the the subject.

They do follow me from site to site do disparage my go intention.

I will also not the there is 1 Nation Park about 4 hours drive from here and the thought of removing geocaches from the National Parks as discussed by the Govebrnment really has no bearing on these yocal locals.

I have checked theri cache finds and none of them have logged a find from a National Park.

It has become blatently obvious that they treat this as a 3 ring circus and will do anything for attention.

They have really put nothing toward this discussion.

It just makes me happy to know that there are people in the PArks Headquarters who have theri heads secured and will be making the sound desision to ban geocaching in parks with out outside influence and that their only goal is to save our parks from unwarranted destruction.

 

I would like to hear from people in Ontario about how it has been in theri provincal parks and how the cachers have taken it.

Note to Moderator - this is not a personal attack. I am letting the readers of the thread know the back ground. If this is a concern please contact me directly

-----------------------------

You are indeed the one who has a problem. For anyone not familiar with past events, you have (self-admittedly) gone from site to site and set up multiple sock puppet accounts just to cause problems. I won't bring those discussions into play here as this is not the place.

 

You have your own agenda, whatever it may be. You have not received any support here and you act suprized....is it any wonder?

 

For the record, your cache is clearly in a Provincial Park - will you back up your own words and remove it?

Link to comment

You are attempting to bring them into play it is obvious otherwise you would have said it.

I have no sock puppet accounts and feel that your attempt to sabotauge this forum discussion is juvenile.

Please stop and go from wearever you came from/

It is noot in a park and it will stay.

Carry on

Your elike a child calling the teacher. ( moderator, oh moderator..please help. Im being bad )

Link to comment

You are welcome.

Ive heard enough from you .

Im closing this topic.

There is a hotline for gambling and drug and alchohol addictions I wonder how long before there is one for geocaching addicted people.

 

Go bug someone else.

 

Closed

Link to comment

Who re-opened this topic? It was closed about three hours ago.

 

Anyone have the Real Cache location numbers?

 

Someone must have a printout, EasyGPS or GSAK file somewhere to prove where it was - or is.

 

And it does seem to me that Parks in general was the topic, not just National Parks.

 

Ahh, the heck with it. This topic is not worth the angst.

 

Logscaler

Link to comment
I feel that we should all stop placing and searching for geocaches in Parks.

The added activity is doing damage to these preserved areas and the are so many other non-park areas where we can cache.

Did you know that it only takes one person to change the landscape just from walking over it.

The National Parks in Canada are considering enacting a new law to ban it.

I have to agree with them .

 

Any others agree?

Wait until you see the rest of Kermode/Yukon's platform. He's calling for the BCGA to become a listing site and list all (!) Canadian caches and demand that GC remove all Canadian cache listings under threat of server attacks by him and the hundreds (!) of other Canadian cachers he believes will agree with him.

 

Don't feed the troll...

On the other hand, it was hard to believe that each and every one of you believed that he really had an intention to run for the "soon-to-be-defunct" BCGA. I, for one, enjoyed watching you all chase your tails.

Link to comment

The Topic is Parks in general and banning all caches in any Park.

This includes giving a grace period for those who have caches in parks to remove them.

FYI ..the cache is,has not been , nor will ever be in a park.

 

The accusers will find anyway possible to attack anyone who agrees that the ban is a good thing for the well being of our treasured parks.

 

They have not visited the cache so have no concrete way of proving without a shadow of doubt that the cache is or isnt in a park.

 

Until they visit it I suggest they bark up another tree.

 

Please keep the topic on track.

that includes those who are talking about unrelated items.

 

Just to refresh your memories the discussion is

 

BAN ALL GEOCACHES IN ALL PARKS.

Link to comment
Geocaching brings undesireable aspects to parks.

Increased automobile traffic, increased foot traffic, garbage, noise and other things that our parks do not need.

I think those aspects of caching are fairly negligible when compared to regular park visits.

 

The main aspect of caching, which parks boards are concerned about, is the fact that cache seekers always head off trail (to stomp around in 10 to 20 square metres of foliage) to seek caches, because caches are always hidden off trail in park settings. There is nowhere else to hide a cache of average size.

Link to comment
Did you read the Parks Canada mandate?

 

As I said before, why should one special interest group be excluded. Do you honestly think that banning geocaching will have a signifcant impact? I cache on two feet.....if a photographer uses his feet walk to a location and then uses a tripod to take pictures they are using 5 "feet." Does that imply that they are doing even more damage?

Is that photographer leaving the trail? Does that photographer stomp around through the foliage and on the ground cover in a 10 metre area before setting up his tripod? If other photographers come after him, do they stomp around off trail in exactly the same spot, increasing the environmental damage?

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...