+BMSquared Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I found this little cutie about 2 feet from my head while doing Freewater 1 today. The snake was hanging out in a tree or large bush right next to the river. It was not a garter snake, it was not a rattler, it was not a copperhead. The head did appear to be slightly triangular in shape. (yes, I know they all do when you find them unexpectedly). It headed straight forthe water when I poked it with a stick. I suspected cotton mouth which is why I poked it. It didn't show me the inside of its mouth, so I can't be sure. Anyone know what it is? I have the larger photo available if it helps. Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Can you post a link to the larger picture. Although I suspect that you still won't be able to see any color patterns or distinguishing characteristics from the larger photo either. Did you take any other pictures of it? Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 (edited) I only have this one picture and I can email it, but it is not uploaded... or is it... OK, try here LINK EDIT: Switched Link Around Edited May 5, 2005 by BMSquared Quote Link to comment
+Rattlehead Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 (edited) Probably a water snake. I don't believe cottonmouths/water mocassins are found outside the southern US. Snakes of New Jersey Poisonous Snakes In North America Edited May 5, 2005 by Rattlehead Quote Link to comment
+Team Bam Bam Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'm pretty sure that's the famous 'Cold Hearted Snake'. I could be wrong. Did you take fingerprints? Next time try to take fingerprints, it always helps in these situations. Quote Link to comment
+KoosKoos Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 (edited) Does sound like the water snake (often confused with a cottonmouth)...and having seen WAY more than my share of water moccasins over the years...the water snake does a good job of looking like the poisonous variety.... Plus, a cottonmouth probably wouldn't have jumped into the water when poked. They're more likely to turn around, grab your stick, and beat you over the head with it! Very agressive snakes! Edited May 5, 2005 by KoosKoos Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 The previous posters are correct in saying that it is probably a common water snake. Also the tail would lead me to believe that it is a water snake. The water snake tail tends to get thin very quickly. However without being able to see 1. The eyes. 2. the corner of the mouth, or 3. more detail on the markings of the snake and knowing that occasionally strange things happen I would recommend that if you can't positively identify a snake you assume that it may be venomous. Also you should know that all snakes can and do swim. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Was it all black? I saw an all black snake, about 5 foot long in VA. Wasn't sure what it was but it was pretty dam cool. Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 (edited) No mystery-- http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/StratfordLanding...water_snake.htm Probably in the tree seeking bird eggs to eat. Among the easiest meals for a snake. JMBella's Black Snake was probably a Black Racer, which is a long snake. Little known , snakes even the fastest can't not cover ground any faster than a human can walk at a slow normal pace. Edited May 5, 2005 by Packanack Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 No mystery--http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/StratfordLanding...water_snake.htm Probably in the tree seeking bird eggs to eat. Among the easiest meals for a snake. JMBella's Black Snake was probably a Black Racer, which is a long snake. Little known , snakes even the fastest can't not cover ground any faster than a human can walk at a slow normal pace. Actually, it appeared to be sunning itself. I appreciate all the help. It might have been the Northern Water Snake. I really think it was an Anaconda. Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Anaconda---hmmm that was my second choice. Quote Link to comment
avroair Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'm pretty sure that's the famous 'Cold Hearted Snake'. I could be wrong. Did you take fingerprints? Next time try to take fingerprints, it always helps in these situations. Did you you look into his eyes? (I can't believe I recalled that song!) Krieky, ask Helmut the appointed snake charmer... Quote Link to comment
Geoman007 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 That is one big snake! The biggest I have seen for NJ. Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 I'm pretty sure that's the famous 'Cold Hearted Snake'. I could be wrong. Did you take fingerprints? Next time try to take fingerprints, it always helps in these situations. Did you you look into his eyes? (I can't believe I recalled that song!) I did, but he's ben telling lies...I didn't have to look it up either. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Can anyone help me with another snake identification? We saw this guy on the trail back from The Upper Yough Trek in Western Maryland. He really is dark green; no color distortion in the photo. Round head, round eyes. Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Almost tempted to say Milk Snake, by looks of blocky patch markings on back, but it looks darker. Variations in coloration are much the norm for snakes, so that would be my guess. No they don't milk cows, that is old wives tale. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I've discussed this snake some more with friends, and now the vote is "rat snake." I'd never seen a green rat snake! Comments? Quote Link to comment
+Polgara Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I've discussed this snake some more with friends, and now the vote is "rat snake." I'd never seen a green rat snake! Comments? WHat kind of snake? That there is a DBS. Quote Link to comment
+Salvelinus Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Can anyone help me with another snake identification? We saw this guy on the trail back from The Upper Yough Trek in Western Maryland. He really is dark green; no color distortion in the photo. Round head, round eyes. Lep: I sent the pic to two of our snake experts here at the PFBC. Many people don't know that the Fish and Boat Commission is responsible for management of amphibians and reptiles. They will know for sure...but my best guess is that it is a watersnake. Whenever you take a pic of a snake, focus on the head if possible. Most of the identifying characteristics are in the head. Salvelinus Quote Link to comment
+Salvelinus Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 LOL...They replied already and definatly confirmed it to be a water snake. Makes sense. Sounds like you guys had a great experience. That cache is truly awesome! Salvelinus Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Many thanks, Salvelinus. Next time I'll ask the snake to show a profile view so I get a better head shot. "That's right, baby.... just a little to the left... work it, baby, work it! The camera's LOVIN' you, baby.... oh yeah...." And no, I was not aware of that bit of PFBC jurisdictional trivia. Is a reptile a "fish" or a "boat?" Finally, I appreciated your advance warning to be well-prepared for The Upper Yough Trek. Though we did not need any of our safety gear, we were all happy that we had it along, just in case. Also, I hid film canisters every 529 feet along the way to this cache, in the hope that this would attract more visitors. The Maryland cache reviewer is giving me a hard time, though. Quote Link to comment
+Salvelinus Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 (edited) Many thanks, Salvelinus. Next time I'll ask the snake to show a profile view so I get a better head shot. "That's right, baby.... just a little to the left... work it, baby, work it! The camera's LOVIN' you, baby.... oh yeah...." And no, I was not aware of that bit of PFBC jurisdictional trivia. Is a reptile a "fish" or a "boat?" Finally, I appreciated your advance warning to be well-prepared for The Upper Yough Trek. Though we did not need any of our safety gear, we were all happy that we had it along, just in case. Also, I hid film canisters every 529 feet along the way to this cache, in the hope that this would attract more visitors. The Maryland cache reviewer is giving me a hard time, though. Amphibians and most Reptiles are aquatic critters...so the PFBC assumes responsiblility. I'm still not sure how you avoided rock-hoppin. Thats what we mostly did. There were places where a bushwack seemed inpossible to us...but we did have to splunk a time or two as well! I'm sure QM will be along shortly to "accidently" flick your film canisters into the raging river! Salvelinus Edited May 24, 2005 by Salvelinus Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 (edited) The first one that BMSquared showed the picture of looks like a "black racer"... common in NJ & Pa... The second pic (posted by The Leprachauns)... not sure, but looks like it may be poisonus... Could be a Copperhead as they have rather distinctive markings... This one looks like it has the right scale patterns, although the colors are darker... From what I understand... most poisonus snakes have a wide head ( to accomodate the venom glands)... I don't believe either are cottonmouths as they are native in S. Carolina and south of there... Edited May 24, 2005 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 1. The snake I saw did not have the characteristic head shape of a copperhead. I've seen a copperhead and this snake looked benign in comparison. 2. The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission ought to be renamed "The Pennsylvania Aquatic Critter and Boat Commission." 3. It would be wrong to kick the 60 film canisters into the river. That would be littering. Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 The first one that BMSquared showed the picture of looks like a "black racer"... common in NJ & Pa... I have played with and handled black racers over the years. I know this one wasn't one. I am really pretty convinced it was the Northern Water Snake per the posts on this thread, or an Anaconda per the J-Lo movie. Quote Link to comment
+Tonsil Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 The snake Lep pictured kinda freaked me out because of the patterns on the back. My experience with snakes is limited to the ones I see in western PA, and that was new to me. However, it didn't not have the head shape of a poisonous type, so once Lep and Nellsnake (who I think is poisonous) assured me that it was okay, I climbed down off of Eithnie's back. As for the not-rock-hopping, we smartly took it uphill before we encountered too steep of a bank. The undergrowth wasn't as dense as some I've encountered other places, but add to that the climbing of rocks and tricky footing and it's tough going, period. Quote Link to comment
+Salvelinus Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 (edited) The first one that BMSquared showed the picture of looks like a "black racer"... common in NJ & Pa...The second pic (posted by The Leprachauns)... not sure, but looks like it may be poisonus... Could be a Copperhead as they have rather distinctive markings... This one looks like it has the right scale patterns, although the colors are darker... From what I understand... most poisonus snakes have a wide head ( to accomodate the venom glands)... I don't believe either are cottonmouths as they are native in S. Carolina and south of there... Just wondering if you read my above post. I sent the pic to two herpitologist I work with, who both confirmed it to be a water snake. There is no doubt about it. The most common mis-identification of a snake is confusing the common Water Snake as a Copperhead. Salvelinus Edited May 27, 2005 by Salvelinus Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Can anyone id this one? I almost stepped on it while looking for the 3 Kings - Hook Mountain cache. Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 (edited) Can anyone id this one? I almost stepped on it while looking for the 3 Kings - Hook Mountain cache. That would be a copperhead snake. http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/...copperhead1.jpg Edited May 30, 2005 by webscouter. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 David, it looks like a copperhead to me, but hard to tell for sure without seeing the entire thing. BTW, Skigirl actually stepped on a rattlesnake at the Rockaway River Ridge cache. You wanna hear a scream? Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Not that I studied it well but I felt the head wasn't as triangular in shape but it could have been the angle I was looking at it from. Regardless, I'm glad I didn't step on it, for both our sakes! After last weeks buzzard attack, I'm over my quota for girly shrieks until next month! Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 (edited) Not that I studied it well but I felt the head wasn't as triangular in shape but it could have been the angle I was looking at it from. Regardless, I'm glad I didn't step on it, for both our sakes! After last weeks buzzard attack, I'm over my quota for girly shrieks until next month! Shreik away tuff guy, this is a Copperhead. EDIT: Removed something really stupid. Edited May 30, 2005 by BMSquared Quote Link to comment
+Perfect Tommy Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 A little help. I spotted this guy about five feet up nestled among the roots of a fallen tree. It was a little camera shy so I couldn't see the shape of its head (and I wasn't going to start poking it with a stick). Any guesses? Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/racer.htm Black Racer. Snakes do not leap, they strike, so a strike is limited to a short distance. Another reason to carry a hiking stick. The stick is usually planted in front of the walker and will draw a strike before a foot or leg. You can use to move a snake away from you. The fastest snake can not move any faster than a slow walking pace. They just look like they are zooming, they really aren't. http://www.wf.net/~snake/faq11.htm Be more careful about where you place hands than about feet. Do not go reaching in with your hands into rocky crevices in the heat of the day, or under logs on real hot days. Snakes warm with the sun at the beginning of the day and seek shelter from the heat as the day progresses. They are cold blooded. Edited May 31, 2005 by Packanack Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Tommy, It was not in the water? The picture looks like it was sitting in a puddle, but the description you gave says 5 feet up in a root system. Also, where where you? Might help in narrowing down the species. I am not discounting Packanack's identification, I just find it interesting. Quote Link to comment
+Perfect Tommy Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Here is my log. This snake was no where near water but five feet up in the roots of an uprooted tree. I was in Depew Park in Peekskill in northern Westchester County, near Blue Mountain Reservation. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment
+klizich Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 In the words of a famous man, "Snake? That's NO Snake.......now, this is a Snake!" Click here! Be thankful you only have to deal with the puny ones! (Team Rampant Lion - Probably a good idea you got snake guardz...see what they can stop???) "whereever you go there you'll be........unless you are lost!" Quote Link to comment
+klizich Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Perfect Tommy - black racer Team DEMP - copperhead Be Carefull All, lots of snakes out there this year! Team Rampant Lion bought Snake Guardz after a close encounter, may not be a bad suggestion for all cachers. There are several brands in either gaiter (not like "alli") or chaps. Gaiters run around $50 a pair. Sure beats meeting Dr. Sean in the Venom ER and being introduced to Crofab! Quote Link to comment
+Airsafety Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 This guy was hiding under a rusty shovel head at the very first cache I ever went after, and let me tell you, it scared the Jeebis outta me (although I did manage to collect myself enough to go change my undies and get the camera to snag this shot.) Now I always do the woodsy caches with a hiking staff, and I spent some time learning about snakes. The copperhead is actually very docile and prefers to stay still, relying on camoflage, when approached. Unless you step on one, or piss it off with prolonged poking, it won't budge. So don't step on one... Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 he copperhead is actually very docile and prefers to stay still, relying on camoflage, when approached. Unless you step on one, or piss it off with prolonged poking, it won't budge. So don't step on one... They lie still and rely on camoflage when you approach, yet you're not supposed to step on them . Why aren't poisonous snakes bright orange! Quote Link to comment
+Tonsil Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) I spotted this snake in the streets of New York - or was it L.A.? I can't remember, but I do know that I thought he was dead at first. I escaped by taking a cab - earnestly! Edited June 17, 2005 by Tonsil Quote Link to comment
+rufnredy Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 (edited) Got another snake for identification ... I wish I knew more about these critters ... Found this one SE of Richmond last week under an ammo box ... Cache Guard OK, forgot how to insert a picture ... and I did oneearlier [] Must be the old age ... Edited June 25, 2005 by rufnredy Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 (edited) Tonsil's snake is the one eyed snake, not to be confused with the one eyed trouser snake. The cache guard looks like a juvenile Northern Water or juvenile copper head. Watersnakes tend to be longer and slimmer than the blocky thick copperhead. If snake has no markings on the head at all treat as a copperhead. (See the excellent phot posted by Airsafety, as can be seen head has no markings at all) Hard to tell from photo, next time get much closer for clarity. General rules only for US snakes, stripes are harmless. Only one banded the coral is venomous, found only in southern tier states. Patterned , use heightened caution rattlers and copperheads are in this grouping. Water mocassins, cotton mouths have white mouth linings, near water and swim with head high out of water. Juveniles are much more vivid in markings than olders. National Audobon Society Field Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians ISBN 0-394-50824-6 has good photo and identifyers also has good range parameters. Available for about 20 at most good bookstores. Edited June 26, 2005 by Packanack Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 (edited) I think that the cache guard is a young bull snake. I would say that it defiantly isn't a young copperhead. They have a very triangular head and a hood over their eyes. Also the markings on the copperhead are of varying width not rectangular like the pictured photo. It may also be a pine snake. Both of these snakes are in the same genus Pituophis. Edited June 26, 2005 by webscouter. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Saw this guy today near the Rocky Nook cache in Ramapo Mtn County Reservation. He was very patient and posed for many photos. I think its a black racer. Quote Link to comment
+BMSquared Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 Saw this guy today near the Rocky Nook cache in Ramapo Mtn County Reservation. He was very patient and posed for many photos. I think its a black racer. I agree with you. They are common in the area. Does anyone know, is the black rat and the black racer the same snake? Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 No they are not, The black rat snake Elaphe obsoleta is about 72 inches long fully grown, they appear shiny but in the right light you can see a pattern in them. The underside of the chin is white, further down the belly they are a checkerboard white and black and near the tail are gray. The Black racer Coluber constrictor is shiny black with no pattern and blue-gray or gray on the belly. They are also much skinnier and shorter about 54 inches fully grown. Also most of the time the racer will quickly retreat from human contact although they are more aggressive when cornered. Typically the black rat will freeze up when approached and is probably what you saw here. Quote Link to comment
+edscott Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Saw this guy today near the Rocky Nook cache in Ramapo Mtn County Reservation. He was very patient and posed for many photos. I think its a black racer. I agree with you. They are common in the area. Does anyone know, is the black rat and the black racer the same snake? Black Rat Snakes and Black Racers look a lot alike, but the keeled scales and hint of white flecks along the sides are indicators of the Rat Snake, while no keeling and only a bit of white under the chin would be the Racer. A keeled scale is a ridge across the scale like the keel of a canoe. Get down really close and you can see it, or rub across it gently and you can feel it. [] Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Saw this big sucker the other day! Yes, I know what it is, and that's as close as I dared get! Even worse, it was in the bottom of a small canyon, and we couldn't give it a lot of room to pass; AND we had to go right past him on the way back out! Quote Link to comment
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