Ciphers

[+Vanish98]

Any advice on how to decipher cipher codes when you don't have a clue to the key? One in particular that I am messing around with is a series of 5 digit numbers...

[+M-T-P]

Any advice on how to decipher cipher codes when you don't have a clue to the key?  One in particular that I am messing around with is a series of 5 digit numbers...

Sure. Get on the Clayjar GC chat page and ask there. There was one that I had to have help solving and the folks there collectively figured it out within minutes. This particular one was encoded in binary. That was the easy part. Then the decoded binary was in a another code that ended up being a modified ROT13 of even numbers only. There's nothing odd here!

 

I now have the coordinates, but still haven't had time to go out and log the find.

 

Which one are you looking at?

[+StarBrand]

Just a comment - not meant to offend anybody.........

 

I don't do most puzzle caches because I have no idea where to start on most - so I just skip them................seems curious to me that many people come in here to get hints when they have no idea. I guess I just don't understand why......

 

end of comment.

[+VT_EMT]

Could you give us the cache name. Might make it easier to figure out.

[+Kit Fox]

I guess I just don't understand why......

 

Because they really want to learn how to solve the puzzle . When I can't figure out a puzzle, I'll ask the cache owner for hints, first.

[+StarBrand]

I guess I mean - if they like figuring things out - great - go sit under a tree until you work it out.

 

On the other hand - if you don't know even where to start.............it almost seems like cheating to get help. Like asking a friend to help you get through the crossword puzzle - sure you can do it but then it was a team effort.

[+The Puzzler]

. . . it almost seems like cheating to get help. Like asking a friend to help you get through the crossword puzzle - sure you can do it but then it was a team effort.

Solving puzzles is great fun as a team.

 

Solving many of the steps in a multi-step puzzle is fun, even if you can't figure out all of the steps yourself.

 

Lastly, after struggling for a while on a puzzle, it is fun to find out which strange direction you brain needed to go that you could figure out. It becomes a wonderful learning experience and can provide a new way of thinking about things.

 

Think of all the new and twisted ways of seeing that world that one will miss out on if one doesn't explore areas of thinking that cannot be approached without help.

 

There are simply times when a little hint or help past an obstacle can open up a whole new world. Don't knock exploring twisted new ideas until you've pushed yourself in some of those directions.

[+The Waldo's]

I have just recently started to work on the ones around my home and I have to say

some of them make me feel like I am as smart as a slice of baloney.

Just on were to start can be a real brain smasher.

[+Kit Fox]

I guess I mean - if they like figuring things out - great - go sit under a tree until you work it out.

 

On the other hand - if you don't know even where to start.............it almost seems like cheating to get help. Like asking a friend to help you get through the crossword puzzle - sure you can do it but then it was a team effort.

I often struggle with asking for help.

 

There are some caches that I'll never figure out, because my brain isn't wired the way the puzzle is set-up. Some caches use advanced cryptography, and unless you knw what your doing, they are virtually impossible to solve without a nudge.

 

One cache that comes to mind, used steganography to hide cache clues + partial coordinates. After blindly guessing what the key to the stegonagraphy program was, I got stuck. I downloaded the resulting hidden file, but couldn't open it. It turns out, you had to rename the file, to a zip file, then unzip it to see the secret text. They don't teach this type of stuff in "geocaching school."

 

I did all the work up to the hidden file part. The hint to rename the file was the only help I got. For this, I don't feel guilty.

[+jimmyreno]

- if you don't know even where to start.............it almost seems like cheating to get help. Like asking a friend to help you get through the crossword puzzle - sure you can do it but then it was a team effort.

So it's not cheating to only do the no brainers that have the coords listed?

[+StarBrand]

.......sigh..............never mind - my point seems lost...............

[+AtoZ]

It is like anything it can be learned. If some times you just need a shove in the right direction. Sometimes people are so obscure that you need a shove in the right direction. I just did one of the puzzles refered to above in about 5 minutes okay 10 after printing out the text so I could write it out. But it was only because I had learned how to do it from doing other caches which I may have gotten a hint on. So you try something that you may have done before it works or doesn't. Humans greates asset is the abiltiy to learn so asking for help when you start out or along the way is up to you. Some people that never ask for help are either never solve a puzzle or are egomanics.

cheers

[+Folshen]

Well if its Digraph, Homophonic or Playfair Cipher then the following link might offer some help to ya...

 

http://www.simonsingh.net/The_Black_Chambe...honiccipher.htm

 

...of course figuring out just how to decipher some of them can still be quite fun.

 

Enjoy!

[+Vanish98]

I'm not asking for any answers...just ways to figure out what the ciper keys are. For example, the cache Jakey's New Devious Cipher. I have gone through several different ciphers and have figured them out (some with a nice hint towards the right direction) and have applied those new "abilities" towards this cache and still cannot figure out the rhyme or reason...

[+ShadowAce]

As someone who usually enjoys puzzles and having hidden a few, I can say that I do get offended when someone solves it and then starts helping others.

 

If you and someone else who have never solved it work together there is no issue, but as I tell others who ask for hints on ones I have solved, once I solve it all hints and help must come from the cache owner.

 

I agree there are some that your brain has to be wired a special way to understand and those just sit there with a happy little '?' icon. Someday I will have the brain storm.

 

There are some puzzles that I actually spent over 4 months working to solve. The reward and thrill is worth it, but the splinters in the head from banging the head on the wall make you wonder.

 

My advice would be find a buddy in your area that has not solved it and throw ideas back and fourth. If all else fails ........ Google it.

[+ShadowAce]

I just figured out the puzzle. It is actually fairly sneaky.

[+AtoZ]

.......sigh..............never mind - my point seems lost...............

Not sure what point you were trying to make. But atain solving some/most puzzles is NOT an intuative process. Some people may think so but it is really a learned process. Asking for help is not bad but expecting the answer is. So if you have a problem it is okay to ask for a point in the right direction. Obscurity can be very frustrating.

cheers

[+Joypa]

I guess I mean - if they like figuring things out - great - go sit under a tree until you work it out.

 

On the other hand - if you don't know even where to start.............it almost seems like cheating to get help. Like asking a friend to help you get through the crossword puzzle - sure you can do it but then it was a team effort.

Hey, we're not all Einstein here. Getting help can mean going on the internet and doing a google search---or going to the library, for that matter. Do I know about the Mayan calendar? Nope, but I can find out about it.

 

Or, you can get together with some smart friends and kick around ideas until you get a solution. That is no different from a group of cachers searching for a cache together.

 

Puzzles are a favorite of mine because of that "aha!" moment when you realize you got it. Almost as good as sex. (I said almost)

 

Getting help from someone who has already solved the puzzle---now that could be cheating.

[+Jakeywakeywoowoo]

Vanish98,

Sorry can't help much right now in this catnip haze. I'm seeing furry little tasty critters running everywhere. Look though my previous posted notes for clues. Meow.

[Vacman]

In my area there are 120 caches listed within a 5.6 mile radius (keep in mind that some of this area is ocean), out of those 120, 11 are puzzle caches... there is nothing more frustrating than knowing that your "perfect" circle of found caches is polluted by a puzzle cache you can't solve....

[+Jakeywakeywoowoo]

I grow bored with no finds. Why don't you try Googling the initials of the cache? Meow

[+Harry Dolphin]

In my area there are 120 caches listed within a 5.6 mile radius (keep in mind that some of this area is ocean), out of those 120, 11 are puzzle caches... there is nothing more frustrating than knowing that your "perfect" circle of found caches is polluted by a puzzle cache you can't solve....

Ah, vacman. I feel the same way about those 'boat required' caches on my ten-mile list. I'm not about to buy a boat to get to them. Oh, well. Then, there are cemetery caches. I don't do them. It is a controversial subject. Some people love them. I don't do them. Geocaching can and will test your skills and compunctions: mental, physical, emotional, religious/non-religious. We do have the liberty to pick and choose which we will or will not attempt.

I will not attempt some of the more physically challenging caches. I know my limitations. I know my fears and phobias. That eliminates some other caches.

Now, give me a good mental challenge, and I will persevere, eventually, I hope. Maybe, with some help. There's a somewhat nearby 5/5 challenge that took us over 10 months to complete. It took a lot of work, and alot of help, but, solve it we did, eventually. It was very rewarding, finally, to log that cache!!!!!

Your choice of challenge is up to you. I will pick and choose mine, as you may, as well.

[Bjornian]

here is a funny thing I am a concrete thinker (computer programmer, para-medical student), my GF is discrete (ENGLISH) and neither of us can easily do a puzzle cache.

[+Thrak]

The main problem I have with puzzle caches is when the hider only "thinks" the thing is clear. When they have you do twisted math on something and it turns out their directions can be interpreted several different ways it is zero fun. I want MATH to be crystal clear. It is a precise thing that shouldn't be open to multiple interpretations.

 

Puzzle caches of this type should only be listed by folks who are very literal.

 

My 2¢

[+Ed Rad]

.......sigh..............never mind - my point seems lost...............

... I'm with you all the way. It have a very special list for puzzle caches.

 

I choose not to do them for the most part. I give the new ones a look and might spend a little bit of time but usually end up getting frustrated and don't want to put the time into solving it. Puzzles are not my thing... call it laziness, stupidity or both but they are not for me.

 

I love clicking the little button that makes them go away.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Special Ed

[+GRANPA ALEX]

There was a time, not too long ago, when I provided a very simular post about puzzles and was warmed by high flames for asking for help.

 

I was told that the cache was owned by someone who had the right to offer help, if they wanted too, or not. As it was, the owner said he would not help, as he said "That's why it is called a puzzle".

 

This was fine, I never logged a find on it, though I spent several hours going through stages and got down to a final impossible cipher . . . that is how he plays, so I avoid his puzzle caches (his others are great fun).

 

It just seems to me that puzzles are NOT really geocaching . . . I see gc as a game of using coords, hints and some skills to hunt & find caches, not solving ciphers & puzzles - but, that's me - you may well feel differently & that's okay!

 

Maybe they should be placed over on Waypoint.com, too with the other alternative ideas for caches . . . what do you think?

[+Cow Spots]

Puzzle caches _are_ geocaches --- they contain a logbook and a container. They just happen to have additional twists before you can find them.

 

Things that got moved over to Waymarking were caches defined as not true geocaches --- typically without containers or logbooks.

 

If ya don't like 'em --- hit the ignore button. You'll never see 'em again.